Objectively?....how many diaries of soldiers that were in the war have you read? I didn't see
any "objectively" in them. I saw poor boys from both sides being thrown into a meat-grinder because some son of a----- wanted more money.
Do you really think this war was about slavery?
Then why wasn't it started by the millions of
dark southerners that were enslaved? The actual words of the men involved all say something like
"well, they killed darrel last week, so it's my turn now"
You want to explain a man walking from Trinity Lousiana to West Virginia---WITH NO SHOES--and tell me he is fighting for the right to keep slaves......Do some research and realize that
life ain't the newspapers and CNN....

The fact that you used the word "Redneck" in this post, proves to me that you are just as racist as any KKK member, and yet you still point the finger of racism at the Confederate Flag.

Well then, why don't you try looking at it objectively from the side of the Confederacy? If the "North" wasn't always right, then why is the "South" always wrong? Why can the Confederate flag, under no circumstances, be flown on government property? How do you know anything about what the Confederacy stood for if you only learned about it from a book?

The Confederacy represented a way of life and that way of life is still alive and well and still being oppressed by northern aggression. Want an example? I can go outside everyday and see a Confederate flag flying. I see Confederate flag stickers and t-shirts all of the time and I live right outside Dallas, not out in the sticks somewhere.

The south is still alive and well, and if all the northern states don't stop electing all of these idiots trying to ban flash hiders and all kinds of other stupid shit don't be surprised if the [b]free[/b] states try to break away again.


You are the epitome of the northern attitudes that started the Civil War to begin with.

When you say Free Men does that refer to the traditional method of determining who can vote based on owning land? Because that would exclude avery large percentage of the population.

Yes individual Congressmen had view on slavery being abolished. The President didn't support it until 2 years after the attack on Ft. Sumter. Slaves not thought of as being human? whose arguement are you proving? It was ILLEGAL to teach slaves to read, they were illiterate because that was the law......
That or because they knew they needed slavery economically and were afraid of sharing with black free-men.


See my 3/5's, 2/3's post the South wanted the benifits of slave labor, and to count slaves in the census for Congressional representation but didn't want to be taxed based on the same census.
I'm sure it was those who felt a duty to go not those that "got drafted"



got me there

And people keep asking why Texas would ever want to leave the US-----Answer---so that people like OLY could be denied a visa.......

No I got called uneducated and attempted to respond humorously. (FYI rednecks are everywhere....... There is also a difference between prejudice and racism, if you learn what it is you may understand more of this disscussion)

Well, how nice of you to agree that I can fly whatever f*cking flag I would like. I'm thrilled that you endorse my right to free speech as endowed by the United States Constitution.



What, you mean like the little "redneck" comment you threw in a few posts back? So now you are the only one that can attempt to throw a jab? Go ahead an talk about the double wides, I don't care. It will only further show your ignorance in regards to the southern way of life. Just because you think everybody here drives a truck and lives in a trailer house doesn't make it true.

Don't be pissed that your arguement is quickly falling apart and that there aren't any more "blue coats" showing up to back up your position. You can write a history book later that says you're right, and that's all that matters right? Screw the truth...isn't that right?

You are a joke.....

And was it a Northern or a Southern son of a ----- that wanted more money?
Yes it was about protecting a way of life, that involved slavery. The slaves didn't revolt, but the owners did when the almighty dollar was jeopardized becasue it was becoming increasingly clear that slavery was morally wrong. Slave owners were afraid of losing the money they had paid for "their" slaves and the production that the slave were responsible for. Oh and by the way we don't like the Federal Gov't telling us what to do, so it's about "States Rights". Only thing was a big part of that was the "States Rights" that allowed people to own other people.



In those days many the world was larger, most people never left the area where they were born. The Federal government was much smaller. Most people felt they were the citizen of a State that happened to be allied with other States. They didn't feel the were United States citizens, the were NC citizens and NC was part of the United States. Think about it, it is why R. E. Lee fought for Virginia. He felt allegiance to where he was born, and educated and grew up, and it was by God Virgina, not the United States.

No, you got call uneducated on the subject matter which is completely different than just uneducated.

Welcome to the NEW AND IMPROVED U.S. of A. where everyone except young, white males has the inalienable right not to be offended.

I'm sure you are an expert on both prejudice and racism, most racists are.

son of a--------both
Is this what you said about fort sumter?
January 9--First overt act of war committed by Confederates by firing on and preventing the ship Star of
the West from bringing reinforcements to Fort Sumter. Soldiers and supplies were concealed in the merchant
steam vessel.

Way of life?? yep everybody down here owned slaves.......
States rights? you really can't be arguing against the rights of the states can you?

I give you article X of the United States
Constitution.....soundly thrashed by Honest Abe

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.  

agree
Fort Sumter was under consrtuction, the main fort in the area was Fort Moultrie, within site of Fort Sumter, which is in Charleston harbor on a manmade pedestal of New Hampshire granite. The commander of the Union garrison, which included 85 soldier and women and children, moved to Fort Sumter, Maj Anderson, a southerner by birth, thought it was less provocative, and more defensible to be there. Unfortunately they had very few rations, and the fort was still under construction, and the cannons were still mostly crated. The SC troops fired on Ft Sumter as Maj Anderson trying to negotiate a delay so the garrison could get resupplied, it was a USN ship that would ressupply them with troops and food.

Nope read the post that others placed here. Some counties had more slaves than citizens. Now if the slaves were set free what would that do to the economy. Very few people owned slaves, but those that did were the wealthy of their respective communities. Other citizens surely knew the were dependent on the wealthier citizens for their livelihood as well.
When was slavery outlawed? Ever here of the Dred Scot case? 1857 (IIRC) the US Supreme Ct. said that runaway slaves must be returned to the South even if the were re-captured in "Free States". Does that sound like the SCOTUS was going to eliminate slavery?



[red]We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.[/red]

Doesn't slavery violate the spirit of the Preamble of the Constitution. WE THE PEOPLE

I am going to ask this one more time? When are you and your northern compadres going to Somalia....if you and the other northern apologists are so hung up on slavery, why don't you stop it now?
Yes slavery was bad, and it was on its way out,
Many bad things were done on both sides to black men.... blackorphange in Ohio burned to the ground-----Charleston...black slaves picking cotton within sight of a battle....no side was right in their actions.....ok?
We the people? Oh you mean foreigners that may be living here?   Rewind todays news and see how far "We the People" applies today....that is the whole point....if it is convenient for the people in power to trample that paper, then they will....using any pretense  -slavery or terrorism!

Heritage, not Hate!  Fly your flag high, and fly it proudly.

No I don't think that either side is faultless or that we as a people today are perfect or should see ourselves as morally superior. I also oppose the move to get Geo Washington's name off public buildings because he owned slaves.

But when will I hear a southerner admit that one of the causes of the war was slavery, and that was based on racism?? It's disingenuous to say that slavery/racism was not a factor that led up to the Civil War, which is what the 2nd post in this thread said. I don't care that much about what is going on in Somalia, I do care about the US, history, and the truth.

I don't know what exaclty a Northern apologist is, but when will we get through the "Southern Revisionists". You fired first, you tried to tear apart the US, you lost, now get over it.

Tell me when you say "States Rights" what exactly does that refer to? Most of the conflicts between North and South seem indirectly or directly related to slavery and the economic gains of slavery. When others say "Taxation and Representation", don't they realize that has to do with the census and determining how slaves would be counted for those purposes, but it wasn't about slavery.

If you think the North went to war due to slavery, that is also incorrect, in the end it was the biggest change but not what most people had on thier minds.

Other issues included, were the addition of new States, Northeners didn't want any slave States admitted, before there was a parity system 1 new "free" State for each "slave" State admitted. The US was only going to accept "free" States. The US also banned the slave trade, again the South thought that was an encroachment on their "States Rights". The real problem was the South'e economy was expanding faster than the worker supply, any guesses what that relates to????

Southern revisionists....I like that....yep you are right we lost...and so did all of the states in the union. We lost the right to tell washington to go to h311....I will freely admit that slavery was ONE of the rallying cries for the CV...but it weren't rascism. Negroes were not considered human....and why do you have a need to declare the south rascist? Ask a mick about New York or a chinese about San Fran or
a wop about Boston....The banning of the slave trade was an inroad on states rights....it may be wrong but the federales didn't have a legal leg to stand on.....just like the interstate commerce clause and multiple abuses of it today.
That is the point, I reiterate, the same battle is being fought today and you seem to be on the wrong side......

Yes the lost "men", but in the long run in made the US stronger as a nation. Yes, the States have had their rights whittled away, but I would also be concerned if they States exclusively made their own rules. Death Penalty for DUI, .04 standard, in 1 State and .20 + to be DUI in another.etc, etc. Slavery was a racist institution, all the Southern States legally codified people owning other people as PROPERTY. It was a racist system.(Revisionist.....) Well as person of 3/4 Irish deescent and 1/4 Portuguese I'm not sure I like that sentence, I also grew up near Boston. To be treated poorly is tough, but to be legally regarded as property of another person is WRONG. See you see States Rights, I see the right of the US to regulate interstate/international commerce as provided by the US Constitution. Again you would argue States Rights, which it is on the face of it, but it pertains to slavery......

Well if you say that the US Gov't has used things like road construction money to make all states adopt seat belt laws, or soon DUI standards of .08 through a "back door" yes I agree they are over reaching. But the US should be able to regulate stuff like FDA meds, or make sure the food supply is safe for all US citizens.

I think that if the seccesion had not have happened slavery would have lasted a lot longer. The CSA pushed the issue and fired on a US fort. There wouldn't have been support for a war in the Norht if that didn't happen. The North would not have had the political will to end slavery without the war. Once war was on Lincoln was reluctant to "end slavery". It seems he wanted the US back together, and didn't like slavery, but I'm not sure he would have ended it in areas where it already was.

ah he just won't quit......
stronger? buddy here's a beer and you are off your flipping rocker...giving government the go ahead to trample the rights of the people is wrong in any situation...period.
States do make their own rules....ever seen a state constitution? (sarcasm alert)
Their ya go with the rascist thing again....me saying I don't like black terriers is not racist...it may be prejudiced and wrong but it aint racist.....and africans were not seen as people....just like Afghani's today
Yep property of people is wrong...but I gave you examples of racism, what didn't you like?
FDA? oh yeah buddy It takes 802 MILLION dollars
to get a drug into production...the Gov't is doing a great job....food supply? and where,in
the enumerated powers of the Federal government, are they responsible for food?.....are you going to say general welfare? I know, why don't you move into government housing and live off the dole and kiss the hand that oppresses you....

I go by the USMC motto, "whatever doesn't kill ya' makes ya' stronger". Yes
Yes the US Constitution lists the MINIMUM protections that a citizen has, State Constitution can enumerate more rights, or certain procedurs that the State must adhere to.
Africans were enslved, based on their race, that is racist. I don't think that means that CSA soldiers were racist, many were poor themsleves, and just trying to defend their respective homes. Your right drug companies should be able to sell whatever they want for however much they want. I didn't say the government was doing a great job, what exactly are we arguing about now??, I prefer to work and be responsible for my actions and welfare, thanks for the concern.

My last post was a little strong....here sit on the veranda and have a mint julep....I do not understand the urge to label Southrons as racist.....yep they were...and so was or is every one else in the whole world...why are southerners picked out for this? And why in the world does every one below the mason-dixon have to be assumed to be racist to this day? Are all east germans Nazi's?
And FDA ---FEDERAL DRUG ADMINISTRATION? isn't that funny to you....that's like gang enforcement----ok officer i will join a gang...
Imagine if cars were regulated like drugs....one model every ten years that cost 100,000 dollars
and couldn't be used while driving...?
Really think about that for a minute.....

[homer simpson voice] mmmmmmm mint julep...... I said the system was racist, I'm NOT saying that Southern soldiers were, very few people profited from slavery, and as I said before they weren't the ones in the fight. But I think I, and many others would feel better if there was some admission that slavery was evil, and by the way before seccesion the US was a country that allowed slavery..... NO I do not assume that Southerners are rascist. They often aren't, and those that are are often much more honest about it, other places have people that will never admit ehat they think, or why which is probably more destructive.   If you mean commies, no.
ummm, cars are crash tested, fuel economy tested. Individual components must be DOT approved........ I think whenever they "fast-track" drug approval a little bit later we here horror stories of side effects and death cause by drug reactions. I'm not a fan of socialized medicine, but I think when you take a prescription medication it should do what it says, and the side effects should be known.

But I think I, and many others would feel better if there was some admission that slavery was evil-----why and here it is....slavery is evil.
Happy....of course it is evil dufus....even david duke said it was bad...who have you been listening to?
FDA----17,600 deaths attributed to prozac alone,
I think that word of mouth would be better in this, as compared to a Gov't approved and released drug.......
Side effects---aspartame....holes in the brain and large tumors----yep the FDA removed these facts from the released tests...good job

Ha! The mobile home was invented in Marshfield Wisconsin..
Both sides of my family fought in the Civil War for Georgia and Wis...of course the commies from Madison and their larva will always disagree and side with the likes of Jesse "the poverty pimp" Jackson and Al sharpton and the Southern Poverty Law Center and the ACLU and People for the American Way The Separation of Church and State The Gay Agenda and They all scapegoat Southern families..(thanks Neil Young)...The hatred of the stars and bars is purely racist at its liberal greasy heart...please dont blame Wisconsinites the commies seem to live below State Hwy 21 or gravitate towards the Chicago enclaves in the tourist areas of the north and hang arround the college towns...we red necks tend to ignore their rants and their BS ways and suffer under their BS legislation...Of course we tend to be the ones who actually go to war and carry a rifle...while they tend to be protestors when its their turn under the gun and then hawks when they are no longer of age to do their own fighting...and push the children of the rednecks they look down on into the fray...there is more forgery in M4 then his rifle imo

Wrong. They died to preserve their right to choose their way of life, much like another bunch in 1776 decided to do. Read up on true Southern history and not what the publik skoolz force fed you. The war of Northern agression was never about slavery, anymore than the 2nd amendment is about hunting.

Don't waste your time on this guy. It's a lost cause and he'll just call you a racist in a round about way then spout about the KKK and the South Carolina govt. in the '60s. Soon he will lead into how all of the poor dumb rednecks living in trailer houses were tricked into going to war against the North by all of the rich white slave owners who lived on plantations and made more money than Bill Gates. Next, he will explain how the war was all the fault of the South because we "tried to destroy the United States" and about how we attacked Ft. Sumtner.

There have been more outright lies posted on this thread protecting the actions of the North than all of the lies told during the Monica Lewinski scandal.

I'm done with this thread. If I feel like hearing some more fairy tales I'll watch one of the kids Disney movies.....

Yup reality bites, oh no here's the real story, Abe Lincoln, the founder of Area 51 btw, got some alien technology weapons. That right giant magnets. The SC militia that surrounded Charleston harbor were shocked when their cannon ammunition was suddenly pulled toward Fort Sumter by the US garrison's magnetic weapons.

Nothing better than a little lying, err revisionist history, since the Confederates fired the first rounds. Oh yeah and then call the other guy the liar................

I too am through with this...It's just like trying to talk to an anti-gunner rationally...it can't be done. They don't want to hear facts nor discuss the respective points of view...they just throw out the same tired accusations of lies and the same tired old statistics and whip themselves into a frenzy of name calling to drown out any shred of something they might hear that contradicts their PC little version of things. Must be nice to never have to think for yourself.

Audemus Defendere Jura.

The south was right.  The Confederate Flag is more beautiful, meaningful, and inspirational to me than the Stars and Stripes could ever be.  God Bless the CSA!

Flying the confederate flag is just stupid. Whether you like it or not it has too many negative conotations to it. That's just the way it is.

And you can take all that crap about the civil war not being about slavery and stuff it up your butt. You may be right but reality has proven time and time again that past events are re-evaluated for more current significance and then history is somewhat rewritten to support this transformation. Since our society eventually realized the full magnitude of how barbaric and inhumane slavery actually was, there was additional emphasis put on it. Whether or not the Union powers-at-be realized it at the time or not, they included one of the most important agenda items in this country's history when they decided to make slavery an issue.

All you poor southern boys who want to go out and wave the confederate flag just because some has told you not too are just being manipulated into looking like stereotypical red-neck morons. You mentality has adapted to think that it makes you special and represents you desire to rebel against the northern liberal elite but that's sort of the same way that the Branch Davidians felt.

Even at best, without the association to slavery, the flag still represents rejection of the union. Well that's just brilliant. Have fun. In my mind, flying the confederate flag is the same as stomping on the US flag. Anything else is just rationalizing.

Whether or not the South had good cause to withdraw from the Union, I find that statement totally offensive.  I am a southerner, but I am an American first...I think southerners that put their "CSA" heritage ahead of their American citizenship are no better than the ethnic minorities that want to be hyphenated Americans. If you're not an American BEFORE you're a Southerner or African or Italian or whatever, to hell with you.  

The South stood for resistance against Tyranny. The North was just as racist as the South. The North was for saving the Union, and not for saving the slaves. Hell, a lot of the time the Northern Army killed black men and raped black women.

So let the flag fly!

[img]http://home.supernet.com/~libertyof76/images/flags/csa1st-animated.gif[/img][img]http://home.supernet.com/~libertyof76/images/flags/csa2nd-animated.gif[/img][img]http://home.supernet.com/~libertyof76/images/flags/csa3rd-animated.gif[/img]
[img]http://home.supernet.com/~libertyof76/images/flags/confednavaljack.gif[/img][img]http://home.supernet.com/~libertyof76/images/flags/georgia.gif[/img][img]http://home.supernet.com/~libertyof76/images/flags/mississippi.gif[/img]

As for the KKK and the flag, read this article from Lew(HeyEric!HeGotItRightThisTimeDidn'tHe?)Rockwell:
[url]http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/klan-flag.html[/url]
Here is some pictures:
From the 1920's:
[img]http://www.lewrockwell.com/photos/klan1923.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.lewrockwell.com/photos/klan1925.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.lewrockwell.com/photos/klanpat.jpg[/img]

From the 1960s:
[img]http://www.lewrockwell.com/photos/klan1960.jpg[/img]

[sarcasm]Huh? Huh? The Klan with the American flag? That's not right! [/sarcasm]

Bullshit.

Trying espousing a conservative opinion in your Mecca of freedom Wisconsin.  Just see how far you "Constitutional rights" get you there.

You are sheeple.  

You just happen to own guns.

Oly:  You have zero (0) understanding of what you debate.  You look like an ass.  If the majority of people in South Carolina wish to have the CBF flown over a [b]CONFEDERATE CEMETARY[/b] than it should be done.  Just because a vocal minority objects to the heritage of the many doesn't mean we should acquiesce to their wishes.

My ancestors were Confederates, their ancestors were Patriots, their ancestors were highlanders.  We never owned any slaves and we didn't fight to maintain slavery.  We fought to maintain our [b]CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS[/b] that were being progressively denied by a dictatorial federal government.  The Yankees passed trade tariffs in an attempt to force Southern states to trade with them instead of Europe.  All of the high-and-mighty bullshit you spewed about the War being fought to make sure Constitutional rights were given to blacks is just that, bullshit.  It was a financial war.  The Yanks needed a market for their expanding manufacturing base, and they were trying to force the South to become that market.  The Emancipation Proclamation was a clever political move on the part of Lincoln, he wanted to keep England out of the War by making it about slavery.  He didn't give a rat's ass about blacks, for proof read the ENTIRE Proclamation.

Liberty:  While I respect the gesture, I do have a problem with the caption on the top photo.  That is NOT the Stars and Bars, it is the Stars and Stripes.  The Stars and Bars was the national flag of the Confederate States of America.  It had 3 bars and 13 (if I remember correctly) stars.

Yeah, I noticed that too. Probably should have made a note. I'll email the author of that page, or you can, whatever.
And the Stars and Bars originally had 7 stars, then added more as more states left the Union and joined the Confederacy. The most common besides 7 was eleven. there was some 13 star versions, and even a 15,17 and 18 variations although they were rare. more here:[url]http://www.fotw.ca/flags/us-csa1.html[/url]. (I'm an amateur vexologist, one who studies flags and what they mean.)

(edited due to the 3500 chaacter limit)

Yeah ok, read my posts where wasn't it clear that the North was 2 years into the war before the Emancipation Proclamation became official. I said that it wasn't about that.

Of course what states rights are you refering to that the South sought to protect?? Name them, name the issues, go, because the major issue was slavery. Then you'll say taxation, guess what slaves figured prominently in that, because back then states paid the federal government based on population, the South didn't want slaves counted for taxation purposes. Next you'll say representation, guess what that was based on?? population again, Southerners who considered slaves property wanted them counted toward representation. Or maybe you'll go on about admitting new states to the Union, since the US had decided no new slave states would be allowed to join. Next you'll go on about tariffs, waaaaa the Constitution give the US the right to regulate interstate commerce.

No the North didn't join the war to free the slaves, I don't think they would have even had the will to fight after the South seceded if SC militia hadn't attacked a US fort. The war was fought to put the country back together, oh and some other stuff happened too.

The high and mighty stuff you refer to was in reference to the civil rights movement in the 1960's.

I just get a little tired of the revisionist, "War of Northern Agression" crap. Who fired first? Who tried to destroy the United States?

I loved a tour at Ft Sumter I went on. They made sure they pointed out the US garrison surrendered after being surrounded and bombarded, and quietly said they were out of food and the forts heavy cannons were in crates and couldn't be assembled while under fire. They made it seem like a great Southern victory over those US cowards, and oh by the way the US troops had no real means to resist and suffered 0 casualties.

When they talked about the US siege of Fort Sumter later in the war, they talked about the 1.5 year lenght of the siege, that was required before the CSA troops "withdrew but weren't defeated". Well isn't that special. Then they added since Ft Sumter was no longer in CSA hands it allowed Union soldiers and sailors access to most of the state from Charleston. Well they weren't defeated, but in giving up the fort the whole State came back into US control............ yeah that wasn't a major defeat.

woohoo...oly just won't quit and now it comes out that he is a racist....he hates southerners.
Look at that last post....so much anger. "they
tried to destroy the US" and? Go back and read the Declaration of Independence, read other writings were the founding fathers talked about a revolution every twenty years....the US was and is a good idea. But to keep anybody in it by force is TYRANNY.

It isn't a good thing to hate Southerners (or to hate anyone based on their birth) but you DO know that "Southern" isn't a RACE, don't you?

Ok this pisses me off.First, Oly just shut the hell up!!!!!!!!!Have you ever been to the south?I was born and have ilved in the south my hole life.I dont expect you to understand and i dont think you ever will.ITS A SOUTHERN THING so leave it a lone!!!Second these men died for what they thought was right.therefor they should have the flag that they died for flown at whatever the cost!Third,the city of Houston Tx said that at any public function the csa flag could not be flown, by law!And mine flys to this day,its not about raceisam it is about heritage and where you come from.Robert E Lee is in my family tree,and yes i hold this very dear.so you see its not about raceisam,hate,kkk or anyting else is about heritage and nothing else!!!!


IF YOU WANT MY FLAG YOU HAVE TO GET THROUGH ME FIRST.

yep I do but as with my other replies....it was rather tongue in cheek....I have had a lot of fun here and I have had to look up a lot of things to bolster my position. Overall it has been a learning experience and I love that it has come down to hatred of someone over an act
long ago....who said southrons are the only ones who will never forget?

1hole -


Don't get sucked into teh black hole of Oly's vacuous logic.

He's not here to debate - he's here to "evangelize" against a piece of cloth.

No different than the antis evangelize against wood and metal when it happens to be assembled in the form of a firearm.

He's a [troll]

1hole -


Don't get sucked into teh black hole of Oly's vacuous logic.

He's not here to debate - he's here to "evangelize" against a piece of cloth.

No different than the antis evangelize against wood and metal when it happens to be assembled in the form of a firearm.

He's a [troll]

Actually, you would have to get through him second. I'll be the first one you meet if you're comming from the north.

At least once a week I pass by General Nathan Bedford Forrests' Memorial marker.  It is located about thirty feet to the west of a major highway and there is always a flag flying that represented the CSA during some portion of that war.  I tip my hat(metaphorically speaking)and say "Good morning General".  No harm here, no harm there.  Let it go.

Post from RikWriter -

You are correct, Sir, it's not a race - it's a [b]religion![/b]

Eric The(AndI'mAHighPriestOfThatReligion)Hun[>]:)]

GARANDMAN i am not geting sucked in,i dont post my thoughts becuse they are just that my thoughts.but this one i just could not hold back.


thanks ponyboy,that means alot



1hole    out

1) I don't hate Southerners or the CSA soldiers, they did more with less.
2) I said I don't think the CBF was racist.(during the war when it was used as a BF)
3) I said that the North's reason for fighting the war were not about ending slavery.
4) I also said that I as an individual have no problem with other individual showing their CBF's.
5) I do have different feelings about States displaying CBF style flags, esp SC......

Here is what I do have a problem with

1) Revisionist history...... War of Northern Agression etc.
2) Denial that slavery was racist.
3) Denial that one of the South's reason for being in the war WAS slavery.
4) People jumping up and down saying the CBF has nothing to do with racism, it didn't originally but now it does.
5) Denial that the formation of the CSA was in effect trying to "pull apart" the United States.


I don't think there were noble motives for the North fighting the war, as I said I don't think they had the will to do it until they were attacked. I also think the line soldiers on both sides were trying to defend their States from an enemy, and that most people in those days felt more allegiance to their State than their Counrty.

I also said it is a shame something like this has to go to court, and that I have no problem with memorial flags being flown.

I just got sucked into this because immediatley after this thread got started "don't tell me the CBF is racist, and the South was fighting for "States Rights" got tossed out.

As far as me not being here to debate I responded to points made by others, most of the responses I got back were oh yeah, sez you, and you suck, kind've responses. Not to mention getting called a liberal, and having an anti-gunner mentality. I was also painted as calling people rascist, I did not. I do think that some of you are "revisionist" however.