[ARCHIVED THREAD] - PRICE GOUGING (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 11/13/2008 1:02:25 AM EDT
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i do not want a big argument just some honest feelings on the following: does it bother anyone else the price gouging that is going on in the ar industry right now? i see one supplier mentioned on arfcom and based in florida has had an increase to $179 on a stripped lower which they were selling 3 weeks ago for around a $110 and another guy trying to sell a stripped lower on arfcom for$300 this is disgusting and they should be ashamed of themselves. the people they are affecting are the same people that put food on their table. there is no difference from this than price gouging after a major dissaster, its the lowest of lows. and until we stop buying from dealers like this they will continue to rape us. yes we have the choice to buy somewhere else but what happens when everyone starts raising their prices as well just because joe tactical did. i actually heard one of the salesman bitching about fuel prices and how can they keep gouging the american public like that at a gun show earlier this past summer. ironic huh? their cost of going to the shows has dropped considerably in the last few months with gas dropping from $3.85 to $2.04 yet they increase the cost of a stripped lower by over 60%. so why screw your customers? its not only here in fl but its happening across the country. this is when they should be showing their true colors, and they are. maybe i was brought up different but you don't kick your fellow man when he's down. |
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Price gouging doesn't occur in a free market. So no, what you are incorrectly calling "gouging" doesn't bother me one bit. So simple but so many just don't understand it. Years of living on the government teat is the only explanation I can proffer. Logic goes right out the window when we talk about a product on a store shelf. They would violently defend their right to sell their own property at a price of their choosing, but when the price of some product in a store goes up, suddenly it's "gouging". 
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I am really tired of all the bitching.
If you don't like the price, don't buy it. It is a really simple concept. All of the naysayers were saying that a new AWB won't happen and McCain will win. Guess what McCain didn't win and we have one of the authors of the AWB as the VP. Like everyone said before me, the Supply is dwindling and demand has grown. If you can't afford to play, find another hobby. Max |
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Yes alot of places have risen there prices due to supply and demand!
But there still alot of good deals out there to be had! I was in Dunhams last night and they had Military Wolf 7.62x39 for 4.99 a box, 12 gauge buck shot (remington!) for 4.99 a box of 20. I could have bought a 7.62x59 roman rifle for 109.00 and ammo was on sale for that also! The deals are still there you just have to look for them. |
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If supply is as depleted as you say (thus making the price go up), then why are there still well known companies out their that have not raised their prices one penny??
Believe it or not there are some companies that raise prices just because they can. Those are the people that will have less clientele when the demand goes down. The people that initially responded to the OP may be screaming that it is nothing but capitalism but there are some of us that believe that 40 bucks for a 30round mag is absolutley uncalled for. I personally agree with the OP. Ya'll can say whatever the hell you want to it but it will not change anyone's mind Fighting on the internet is like competeing in the special olympics, you may win but you are still "mentally challenged" |
| There were good prices right up to the election and even a day or so after, i realise not everyone has alot of money(i am one of them) but lets face it, there have been YEARS to get what you want, buying a little at a time over years could have been done by most people, its all about priorities, and the prices of today will look really good in a year or so, remember the first ban? it wasnt fun. |
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Supply and demand. Demand goes up, supplies go down, prices go up. This last week we saw demand rise by orders of magnitude, this will greatly reduce available supply. What in the blue fucking hell do you think that will do to the price? This.... If you dont want to pay it then dont...quit crying. If a business raises their prices and pisses off customers that is there problem, go buy from someone else. |
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i do not want a big argument . Yes you do... Nail on the head. This is just another "Look at me" thread to start a fight. Otherwise OP would have just posted in one of the 1/2 dozen other whine fests. On the upside, the anti-capitalists are outing themselves left and right. |
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Supply and demand. Demand goes up, supplies go down, prices go up. This last week we saw demand rise by orders of magnitude, this will greatly reduce available supply. What in the blue fucking hell do you think that will do to the price? This argument keep being offered-up all the time, in fact it's the ONLY one proposed by the apologist. No one is disputing that. Don't like it don't buy it, the way of the universe. But the 10-dollar water and the 400 buck hotel room when one doesn't have an alternative (or much of one) is gouging. Simply, if you piss enough people off, laws get passed to put you in a worse spot than if you hadn't been a jackass to begin with, in effect you're now allowing the gov to temper your action. You can rant and rave all you want but you know it’s the truth. And Keith_J and Subnet will flower it up by saying all the stats about futures but, I hold it's different: the gas in the underground tank (meaning its bought and paid for will always fluncuate (sp) up in price but never down. ETA color and spelling |
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If supply is as depleted as you say (thus making the price go up), then why are there still well known companies out their that have not raised their prices one penny?? Believe it or not there are some companies that raise prices just because they can. Those are the people that will have less clientele when the demand goes down. The people that initially responded to the OP may be screaming that it is nothing but capitalism but there are some of us that believe that 40 bucks for a 30round mag is absolutley uncalled for. I personally agree with the OP. Ya'll can say whatever the hell you want to it but it will not change anyone's mind Fighting on the internet is like competeing in the special olympics, you may win but you are still "mentally challenged" Many companies who have not raised prices are backordered long into the future. So far into the future, that you are at risk of a change in the law if you buy and wait. That is why prices are higher. 
If it's my magazine and I'm willing to sell it for $40, you have NO RIGHT to get all butt-hurt when I won't part with it for less. IT'S MY G.D. MAGAZINE. Don't like the price, don't buy it. ETA: Anyone care to put a definition on the term "gouging", or how about "greed", or try "too much". Put them in number or percentage terms, so we all know where YOU draw the line. Anyone who uses those terms has a pretty crappy understanding of the term "private property", and you most definitely fail at understanding free markets. 
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the gas in the underground tank (meaning its bought and paid for will always fluncuate (sp) up in price but never down. Well that is because you CAN NOT make a living selling below your cost.......do you REALLY have a problem understanding something that simple? |
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Price gouging doesn't occur in a free market. So no, what you are incorrectly calling "gouging" doesn't bother me one bit. So simple but so many just don't understand it. Years of living on the government teat is the only explanation I can proffer. I want my titties back! |
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I swear to God, if I had a stripped lower in my safe, I would list it in the EE for $999 just to listen to the crying that would surely come from it. That’s an odd position. The firearm community is crying out for unity and solidarity but want to stick it to themselves on pricing. Infighting has bought down lots of groups over the course of history. It keep getting postulated about how American cars are crap, overpriced, and built by unions, and should going under. Guess where we're (as gun enthusiasts) are headed? |
| Have no fear, I am sure that the Dems will have an office of Price setting or maybe a gouging czar. If someone is making "to much money" we can report them. Just to make it fair. Price gouging is a buzz word for the libs. If you think the price is to high, don't buy. Do you want the Gov. to set the price. Besides, the folks making black rifle parts are going to be in a world of hurt in say 6 to 9 months, and ongoing for the next four years at least. Let them make some money while they can. |
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I swear to God, if I had a stripped lower in my safe, I would list it in the EE for $999 just to listen to the crying that would surely come from it. That’s an odd position. The firearm community is crying out for unity and solidarity but want to stick it to themselves on pricing. Infighting has bought down lots of groups over the course of history. It keep getting postulated about how American cars are crap, overpriced, and built by unions, and should going under. Guess where we're (as gun enthusiasts) are headed? What is odd is, no one should care if someone is dumb enough to try to sell a lower for that much. They should just laugh at whoever is doing it and move on to the next deal. But if one was in the EE for $999 there would be multiple threads about it. |
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If supply is as depleted as you say (thus making the price go up), then why are there still well known companies out their that have not raised their prices one penny?? Believe it or not there are some companies that raise prices just because they can. Those are the people that will have less clientele when the demand goes down. The people that initially responded to the OP may be screaming that it is nothing but capitalism but there are some of us that believe that 40 bucks for a 30round mag is absolutley uncalled for. I personally agree with the OP. Ya'll can say whatever the hell you want to it but it will not change anyone's mind Fighting on the internet is like competeing in the special olympics, you may win but you are still "mentally challenged" Many companies who have not raised prices are backordered long into the future. So far into the future, that you are at risk of a change in the law if you buy and wait. That is why prices are higher. 
If it's my magazine and I'm willing to sell it for $40, you have NO RIGHT to get all butt-hurt when I won't part with it for less. IT'S MY G.D. MAGAZINE. Don't like the price, don't buy it. Dont worry I wont 
So there! Nony Nony boo boo! Please everyone get a little more Childish. 
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the gas in the underground tank (meaning its bought and paid for will always fluncuate (sp) up in price but never down. Well that is because you CAN NOT make a living selling below your cost.......do you REALLY have a problem understanding something that simple? I understand your point, but you'll go out of business if you don't sell much or any of it. And when businesses fail, it affects us all to some degree. More people on the dreaded unemployment or welfare, bankruptcy etc. Y'all hide behind the so-be-it if something goes under, but it's dragging more than the direct people involved, everyone takes a hit. You say (not you directly) it encourages competition? How many start-up automobile, oil refineries or firearm manufacture are waiting in the wings? And it not just keeping the store afloat. If you need to pay-off your new zoom-zoom buggy or mega buck house you’ll need to charge more, and coerce other business to do the same. |
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The real question I have for all the whiners is "Why does this affect you?"
You're on a gun board. You're clearly clued in to the possibility of a new AWB, and you should have already been aware of it, so why do you need to buy anything. I don't. I'm not worried about current prices. I have what I need. I don't need to buy anything? I just need to document. ALL I HEAR IN THE BLEATING OF THE SHEEP. 
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The real question I have for all the whiners is "Why does this affect you?" You're on a gun board. You're clearly clued in to the possibility of a new AWB, and you should have already been aware of it, so why do you need to buy anything. I don't. I'm not worried about current prices. I have what I need. I don't need to buy anything? I just need to document. ALL I HEAR IN THE BLEATING OF THE SHEEP.  Well then quit raping the poor thing 
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I swear to God, if I had a stripped lower in my safe, I would list it in the EE for $999 just to listen to the crying that would surely come from it. That’s an odd position. The firearm community is crying out for unity and solidarity but want to stick it to themselves on pricing. Infighting has bought down lots of groups over the course of history. It keep getting postulated about how American cars are crap, overpriced, and built by unions, and should going under. Guess where we're (as gun enthusiasts) are headed? What is odd is, no one should care if someone is dumb enough to try to sell a lower for that much. They should just laugh at whoever is doing it and move on to the next deal. But if one was in the EE for $999 there would be multiple threads about it. True. Years ago I ran across an ad for a Jeep Comanche pick-up after they had stopped being built. Had some rust issues, the four banger motor, and a lot of miles. The guy wanted $12,500 bucks for it. In the ad was “Yes, that’s right:12,500! Because if you want one try to go to the dealer and get one!” |
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Some smaller businesses are forced to raise prices early. They have very little on-hand supply, and they don't want to stock out. Larger dealers get priority or resupply. Little guys don't get that preference.
There is no such thing as price gouging. No one makes people pay a higher price. They do so acting on their own free will. If lowers used to be such a good price, why didn't you buy some to sell now? |
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Supply and demand. Demand goes up, supplies go down, prices go up. This last week we saw demand rise by orders of magnitude, this will greatly reduce available supply. What in the blue fucking hell do you think that will do to the price? that pretty much sums it up 
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I'm only bothered by the bleating of the poor whining Nancy's who don't understand how a free market works. The owner of the property can set any price they damn well like. Whether it sells at that price is a separate issue.
Don't like it? Vote by purchasing from other vendors. But all you folks with your "gouger lists" - the very second a "gouger" offers a lower price than someone on your "good guy" list, you'll go with the lowest price and not look back. Wah. |
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I'm only bothered by the bleating of the poor whining Nancy's who don't understand how a free market works. The owner of the property can set any price they damn well like. Whether it sells at that price is a separate issue.Don't like it? Vote by purchasing from other vendors. But all you folks with your "gouger lists" - the very second a "gouger" offers a lower price than someone on your "good guy" list, you'll go with the lowest price and not look back. Wah. HA HA HA HA HA HA! I like the only single point that keeps getting pushed, as if there are no other considerations. Seriously though, I suppose it all depends on each own definition of gouging. I do enjoy the constant bantering of a perfect world of no regulation of finance, or perhaps anything. No dastardly gubberment intervention of anything! But, I have strong doubt that most of you would survive in the perfect world you’d create. |
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But, I have strong doubt that most of you would survive in the perfect world you’d create.
That must be your only strength. A market requires buyers and sellers. If a seller wants to make a profit, they have to sell. To sell, they have to find a price point the market accepts. If that price point is too high for you, don't whine about your own weaknesses and expect sympathy. Get in the soup line. |
) and you all turn on each other like it is going out of style. Good on ya!!
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But, I have strong doubt that most of you would survive in the perfect world you’d create. Ok here is a perfect way for you to understand how this works. Let's say you have 3 stripped lowers. You want them all and have plans for them all. Let's say your neighbor wants one and is willing to pay you say $300 for it. If he offers that to you, did you gouge him? If he offered it, was it not worth that to him? It REALLY is supply and demand. |
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But, I have strong doubt that most of you would survive in the perfect world you’d create.
That must be your only strength. A market requires buyers and sellers. If a seller wants to make a profit, they have to sell. To sell, they have to find a price point the market accepts. If that price point is too high for you, don't whine about your own weaknesses and expect sympathy. Get in the soup line. ???? I don't care if they exceed or fail, especially if it's for unnecessary items. But take for instance; let’s say GM announces they’re closed for business, gone. Overnight, prices for GM parts would skyrocket. No other explanation other than: I have it; you want it, so you’ll pay my price. We all know that, and except accept it. But there is no other explanation for it than profiteering or greed. Yes, it is a free society (cough cough). But people, as a society, do as a group, decide what is right and what is wrong. I don’t totally agree with that but there it is. And when enough of them are pissed-off they want change, like HOPE AND CHANGE. Sound familiar? So now you’ve forced the issue and it’s bitten back. Who are the winners? Had some kept some degree of moderation, or kept their penises in check, it would have been avoided. Are there anti-gouging laws on the books? Yep. Should there be? No. But some tried to take advantage of a situation and guess what? ETA spelling |
| Everyone who is pissed off about the increases in price just needs to get over it. Was the outcome of last week that big of a surprise? We all knew a democrat being elected was a possibility. Is paying $179 for a lower today better or worse than not even being able to buy one in a year or two from now? Just go out and buy two lowers instead of three. These dealers and manufactures have been supporting all of us over the years and more than ever they will need all of our support to ensure that they survive these next four years. I doubt they have a BOB for was coming. |
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I wish there would have been 'gouging' in FL after the hurricane. At least then one could have bought a generator. I would have been very expensive, but available. It's better the be able to get something you want/need for a high price than NOT to be able to get something. |
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Supply and demand. Demand goes up, supplies go down, prices go up. This last week we saw demand rise by orders of magnitude, this will greatly reduce available supply. What in the blue fucking hell do you think that will do to the price? This argument keep being offered-up all the time, in fact it's the ONLY one proposed by the apologist. No one is disputing that. Don't like it don't buy it, the way of the universe. But the 10-dollar water and the 400 buck hotel room when one doesn't have an alternative (or much of one) is gouging. No, those are the market determined prices brought on by changing market conditions. As has been pointed out, in this thread as well as others, "gouging" is an economic impossibility. One cannot charge, and get, more than the market determined price. Answer this question: In the wake of a hurricane, when water was $10, why weren't the "price gougers" charging $20 for water? Answer: Because $10 was the current market price, and no one would buy the $20 water. Price gouging doesn't exist. QED Scott |
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I wish there would have been 'gouging' in FL after the hurricane. At least then one could have bought a generator. I would have been very expensive, but available. It's better the be able to get something you want/need for a high price than NOT to be able to get something. Sure, but what is fair? Add up all the expense of dragging them into a disaster area surely would crank up the price. But at four time the original cost of the generator? Let’s take your case: why didn’t you drive somewhere to get one? What else did you need that you didn’t have? |
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And it not just keeping the store afloat. If you need to pay-off your new zoom-zoom buggy or mega buck house you’ll need to charge more, and coerce other business to do the same. Price fixing is definable, illegal, and regularly prosecuted. Do you have any evidence of price fixing in the firearms industry? Scott |
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I wish there would have been 'gouging' in FL after the hurricane. At least then one could have bought a generator. I would have been very expensive, but available. It's better the be able to get something you want/need for a high price than NOT to be able to get something. Sure, but what is fair? Add up all the expense of dragging them into a disaster area surely would crank up the price. But at four time the original cost of the generator? Let’s take your case: why didn’t you drive somewhere to get one? What else did you need that you didn’t have? "Fair" has nothing to with it. Who determines what is "fair?" You? The government? Cost determines a price floor. Other than that, it has almost nothing to do with the sales price. That the increase in cost doesn't "justify" the increase in price is irrelevant. The price is determined by market forces, not cost. Scott |
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No, those are the market determined prices brought on by changing market conditions. As has been pointed out, in this thread as well as others, "gouging" is an economic impossibility. One cannot charge, and get, more than the market determined price. Answer this question: In the wake of a hurricane, when water was $10, why weren't the "price gougers" charging $20 for water? Answer: Because $10 was the current market price, and no one would buy the $20 water. Price gouging doesn't exist. QED Scott Ok, lets look at it another way. I own a railroad, and we’re suddenly at war. Normally I charge a dollar/pound/mile. The gubberment want me to haul an armored division to the other side of the country and I decide, in the way that business owners do, that it’s four dollars/pound/mile; this is without fuel prices going up and so own. Or I own a vast amount of scrap steel and I refuse to sell it for vital war industry at normal current prices. I want double the price or more. Or during a disaster, I as a doctor quadruple my prices, and I don’t give a shit if your daughter Mary is suffering badly. Am I right to do so? Where’s my honor and/or loyalty or decency? |
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But, I have strong doubt that most of you would survive in the perfect world you’d create.
That must be your only strength. A market requires buyers and sellers. If a seller wants to make a profit, they have to sell. To sell, they have to find a price point the market accepts. If that price point is too high for you, don't whine about your own weaknesses and expect sympathy. Get in the soup line. ???? I don't care if they exceed or fail, especially if it's for unnecessary items. But take for instance; let’s say GM announces they’re closed for business, gone. Overnight, prices for GM parts would skyrocket. No other explanation other than: I have it; you want it, so you’ll pay my price. We all know that, and except accept it. But there is no other explanation for it than profiteering or greed. Yes, it is a free society (cough cough). But people, as a society, do as a group, decide what is right and what is wrong. I don’t totally agree with that but there it is. And when enough of them are pissed-off they want change, like HOPE AND CHANGE. Sound familiar? So now you’ve forced the issue and it’s bitten back. Who are the winners? Had some kept some degree of moderation, or kept their penises in check, it would have been avoided. Are there anti-gouging laws on the books? Yep. Should there be? No. But some tried to take advantage of a situation and guess what? ETA spelling The "situation" someone tried to "take advantage" of was the freedom to determine under what conditions they would transfer ownership of their property to another person. If the mob demands you sell your GM parts at below a price what you, the owner, find acceptable, the morally correct response is to destroy the parts rather than surrender to mob rule. Whatcha gonna do then, Willis? |