[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Embarrasing AR vs AK (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 11/9/2008 4:55:17 AM EDT
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This dude at the range was blasting his AK at a minute of person target at 100 yards today and happy with his 10" groups.
I proceeded to put a few rounds into the eye balls of the human target with my match AR. to their amazement. (the dudes spotter was calling my rounds which was annoying as hell. On the third shot my trigger felt like crap and I pulled the round off target.. Looking down I noticed that the pin in my Jewel trigger had walked and got into a SERIOUS bind.. I played it off and put the rifle on the rack. Saying well I guess I took him out or something to the effect and cursed my rifle under my breath.... Time for some KNS pins I guess, glad I was not in a High Power Match. They are worth the cost, never thought so untill now. |
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The AK design will always be more reliable than the ar15 platform in extreme mud and dirt/sand situations. You can remove the receiver cover on an AK and see why. Everything is very loose and the gas system is big. I have never personally had a gas system issue with an ar15 but it is definitely a possibility.
I own both and if SHTF I would take the AR before the AK. I am more comfortable with it, more accurate with it, and I have a lot more ammo and magazines for it. |
10 inches at 100 yards was most likely the shooter and not the AK. While they will never be as accurate as an AR, most AK's will shoot 4 inch groups at 100. I have both and love both for different reasons. The AR wins for accuracy and ergonomics and the AK wins for rugged reliability. Both are fun to shoot!!!
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Mock the AK all you want. Your weapon structurally failed and your life could have depended upon it.
25. Use a gun that works EVERY TIME. "All skill is in vain when an Angel blows the powder from the flintlock of your musket." At a practice session, throw you gun into the mud, then make sure it still works. You can clean it later. Oh, yeah on second thought. Better not throw that AR15 in the mud, then things will really get interesting. |
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Mock the AK all you want. Your weapon structurally failed and your life could have depended upon it. 25. Use a gun that works EVERY TIME. "All skill is in vain when an Angel blows the powder from the flintlock of your musket." At a practice session, throw you gun into the mud, then make sure it still works. You can clean it later. Oh, yeah on second thought. Better not throw that AR15 in the mud, then things will really get interesting. IMO I like HITTING what I am at further than 50 yards, and I don't plan on purposely dunking my battle rifle in mud. If your question is "I want something accurate out to 300 yards- can take opportunity shots at 500 yards, a reliable system that's easy to maintain and doesn't have many parts, has good sights and hits where I put my aiming device at distances farther than arms length" your answer is Ar-15 If your question is "I'm incapable of basic maintence, I do not wish to stock up on lubricant, and I'm a futz that purposely throws sand and mud into the open action of my weapon - which I'm too lazy to dust off, and piss poor accuracy + clutzy ergonomics don't matter to me, as the purpose of a rifle isn't to make accurate shots in quick succession but to survive my shortcomings in care for the weapon." your answer is AK-47 This is all in jest, we all know both systems are viable, and I wouldn't want to be shot by either 
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So the AK demonstrated acceptable accuracy and superior reliability? My point was my $1400 AR was as useless as a bayonet at 100 yards and this junky $400 Romanina rifle was doing the trick and I was unhappy with the results. Very sad but true... I sold my AK years ago and will never go back but I also never had a trigger pin walk on me... In a serious situation like a match or firefight I would of been smoked. I kinda don't like that idea at all. I would now reconsider having an AK as the truck gun. And if it ever got stolen I would only be out about 1/2 the price of an AR or less... another thought, a sad but possible situation.. |
| I have many of both and both will function fine with the right care. Every AK I have will shoot 4-5 inches at 100 yards. My AR's are much more accurate. I have went the rought of KNS pins. No use tempting fate. $30 isn't much compared to what I have in my AR's. |
| both are great guns for their intened purposes ! both have drawbacks but both are fun and deadly in the right hands ! I have 5 AR's and 7 AKs and i enjoy them both with a slight edge to the AR's, however, i have 3 MILLED Bulgarian AK's that will shoot 2.50- 3 in groups at 100 yrds consistently with good ammo. Dont underestimate the AKs b/c GOOD quality AK's are more than capable of doin the job ! |
| You gotta love them both but for different reasons. I've got three AK's and two AR's and wouldn't get rid of any of them. With my AK's I can ruin your day, all day, out to 200 yerds - and that's with 45 year old eyes. With my AR's I can push that out to 400 yards or so. AK's may not be tack drivers, but for most social situations they are good enough. |
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So the AK demonstrated acceptable accuracy and superior reliability? My point was my $1400 AR was as useless as a bayonet at 100 yards and this junky $400 Romanina rifle was doing the trick and I was unhappy with the results. Very sad but true... I sold my AK years ago and will never go back but I also never had a trigger pin walk on me... In a serious situation like a match or firefight I would of been smoked. I kinda don't like that idea at all. I would now reconsider having an AK as the truck gun. And if it ever got stolen I would only be out about 1/2 the price of an AR or less... another thought, a sad but possible situation.. That is why you NEVER put a match trigger group in a rifle your life may depend on. Jewel AR trigger's can be finiky and I'm being nice when I say that. Good for the job of Target shooting. I would gladly give up a MOA or two for 100% reliability. I personally prefer my JP tacticle trigger at 4lbs single stage. Lots of rounds and never a hicup |
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You gotta love them both but for different reasons. I've got three AK's and two AR's and wouldn't get rid of any of them. With my AK's I can ruin your day, all day, out to 200 yerds - and that's with 45 year old eyes. With my AR's I can push that out to 400 yards or so. AK's may not be tack drivers, but for most social situations they are good enough. Factual. If you're out there the Rem 700 is the tool for me. |
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This dude at the range was blasting his AK at a minute of person target at 100 yards today and happy with his 10" groups. I proceeded to put a few rounds into the eye balls of the human target with my match AR. to their amazement. (the dudes spotter was calling my rounds which was annoying as hell. On the third shot my trigger felt like crap and I pulled the round off target.. Looking down I noticed that the pin in my Jewel trigger had walked and got into a SERIOUS bind.. I played it off and put the rifle on the rack. Saying well I guess I took him out or something to the effect and cursed my rifle under my breath.... Time for some KNS pins I guess, glad I was not in a High Power Match. They are worth the cost, never thought so untill now. wow an AK vs. a "match" AR. did you both have irons? |
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Yes both had iron sights but that is besides the point. I am not talking about accuracy and that is pretty much what enlightened me to the weakness of my rifle.
The pins walked on me. My rifle was put out of action. I was left in the cold for worse... Guess it was part my fault in trying to show the guy up. From prone I can keep all my rounds in a 10 shot string in 1.0 1.5" at 100 yards But what I learned is there is a weakness to the rifle. It would not of mattered if I had a normal or match trigger in it. The damn pins can walk on you and they will do it when you need them the most. I'm putting the KNS anti roll pins on all my AR's. There were no intentions on starting the old debate over. But I just wanted to let you all know I would of got smoked! I by far love the AR platform for many many reasons.. My newest reason is I got a Spikes tatical 22 LR for my RRA lower 
fun fun fun and only $10 in ammo for the afternoon 
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| My Colt pins are tight as foook...... I'm not worried about them..... but my new build a Spikes upper and lower, which to me is manufactured really nice... the pins were kinda snug with the DPMS lpk but not what I'd call tight. When I swapped the trigger guard on it yesterday (light tapping), the lower trigger pin tried to work itself out a little bit, I was surprised. Now hearing your story, I'm concerned and may have a KNS kit on the way as well. |
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Took my AK to the range last weekend. After shooting my AR it just doesn't do it for me anymore. Less accurate, more recoil, meh...  Same goes for me. My AR has been just as reliable for shooting paper bad guys. I would grab the AR over the AK any day tho. But both have their place. |
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Just before the AWB, I was at a gun store and was buying my first M17. the guy with me said fuck that POS, I'm buying an AK...(he bought a mac90)...
two weeks later we at the range...I dump five mags..just to warm the new baby up. He steps up and gets 3 shots off...JAM.... Drops that mag, clears the jam....gets off 5 more shots...JAM Drops the mag, clears the jam...gets off 1/2 a mag....JAM nice weapon you got there... 
"yeah I may have to re-build some parts on it"...Hows that bullpup thing? Works like a charm. We shot the M17 and my ARs all day. The Mac90 stayed in the trunk..and to my knowledge never fired more then a mag without jamming its whole 5 year life with him. AKs are not what the hype sells them as. |
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Just before the AWB, I was at a gun store and was buying my first M17. the guy with me said fuck that POS, I'm buying an AK...(he bought a mac90)... two weeks later we at the range...I dump five mags..just to warm the new baby up. He steps up and gets 3 shots off...JAM.... Drops that mag, clears the jam....gets off 5 more shots...JAM Drops the mag, clears the jam...gets off 1/2 a mag....JAM nice weapon you got there...
"yeah I may have to re-build some parts on it"...Hows that bullpup thing? Works like a charm. We shot the M17 and my ARs all day. The Mac90 stayed in the trunk..and to my knowledge never fired more then a mag without jamming its whole 5 year life with him. AKs are not what the hype sells them as. Yup.... AKs are jam -a- matics . I own several and I cant get one of them to run through a complete magazine. Especially the Mac90........... jam , stovepipe, jam, double feed, stovepipe ect... |
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AKs are not what the hype sells them as. Not when there is obviously something wrong with that rifle. AKs have the hype for a reason, and it started with the people who got stuck at the dangerous end. I love my AR, it's a beauty, but if I had to depend on one for my life, it would be the AK. I would rather be moving than cleaning. |
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Just before the AWB, I was at a gun store and was buying my first M17. the guy with me said fuck that POS, I'm buying an AK...(he bought a mac90)... two weeks later we at the range...I dump five mags..just to warm the new baby up. He steps up and gets 3 shots off...JAM.... Drops that mag, clears the jam....gets off 5 more shots...JAM Drops the mag, clears the jam...gets off 1/2 a mag....JAM nice weapon you got there...
"yeah I may have to re-build some parts on it"...Hows that bullpup thing? Works like a charm. We shot the M17 and my ARs all day. The Mac90 stayed in the trunk..and to my knowledge never fired more then a mag without jamming its whole 5 year life with him. AKs are not what the hype sells them as. Yup.... AKs are jam -a- matics . I own several and I cant get one of them to run through a complete magazine. Especially the Mac90........... jam , stovepipe, jam, double feed, stovepipe ect... What kind of ammunition are you shooting. My Chinese are the best of the bunch. But even my WASR goes bang every time. You got something else going on. |
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Originally Posted By , and piss poor accuracy + clutzy ergonomics don't matter to me
Have you even shot one ?? "Piss poor" lol
Armchair commando is strong in this thread Ofcourse if I didn't think for my self, I would think Glocks all blow up and 1911 are not reliable. I own shoot a carry both of them also.................. Sorry I will try harder to stick my head up my ass |
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Just before the AWB, I was at a gun store and was buying my first M17. the guy with me said fuck that POS, I'm buying an AK...(he bought a mac90)... two weeks later we at the range...I dump five mags..just to warm the new baby up. He steps up and gets 3 shots off...JAM.... Drops that mag, clears the jam....gets off 5 more shots...JAM Drops the mag, clears the jam...gets off 1/2 a mag....JAM nice weapon you got there...
"yeah I may have to re-build some parts on it"...Hows that bullpup thing? Works like a charm. We shot the M17 and my ARs all day. The Mac90 stayed in the trunk..and to my knowledge never fired more then a mag without jamming its whole 5 year life with him. AKs are not what the hype sells them as. Yup.... AKs are jam -a- matics . I own several and I cant get one of them to run through a complete magazine. Especially the Mac90........... jam , stovepipe, jam, double feed, stovepipe ect... What kind of ammunition are you shooting. My Chinese are the best of the bunch. But even my WASR goes bang every time. You got something else going on. I am sorry I was being sarcastic. One rifle that had problems (probably messed with by a "gunsmith" and it is used to judge the whole AK platform....... its just stupid
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Take that fancy jewel trigger out and save your money on the kns pins. and then put the factory trigger back in now way in hell! That fancy trigger breaks at about 1.5 and quickly gave me the ability to shoot Expert classes consistantly in High Power Matches. By summer I may be shooting in Master class. The rifle weights about 12 pounds and is not my SHTF gun, I have a few others for that. That fancy trigger is worth every one of the 17580 pennies I spent on it. I just need some KNS pins to finish it off. |
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Mock the AK all you want. Your weapon structurally failed and your life could have depended upon it. 25. Use a gun that works EVERY TIME. "All skill is in vain when an Angel blows the powder from the flintlock of your musket." At a practice session, throw you gun into the mud, then make sure it still works. You can clean it later. Oh, yeah on second thought. Better not throw that AR15 in the mud, then things will really get interesting. putting in a drop in trigger unit without using kns anti-rotation pins was asking for trouble. and this throw your gun in the mud stuff is annoying. Who the hell would throw their match grade AR in the mud. AKs are predominantly used by terrorists and armies from third world countries for a reason....because the trigger pullers behind them are slightly smarter than your average baboon and treat their rifles as such. if you give a gun loose enough tolerances, it can become reliable. there are more to combat weapons than being able to throw them in the mud  how about accuracy, light weight, simplicity, superior sighting options, as well as superior range.
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Mock the AK all you want. Your weapon structurally failed and your life could have depended upon it. 25. Use a gun that works EVERY TIME. "All skill is in vain when an Angel blows the powder from the flintlock of your musket." At a practice session, throw you gun into the mud, then make sure it still works. You can clean it later. Oh, yeah on second thought. Better not throw that AR15 in the mud, then things will really get interesting. I take care of my AR and it works everytime. Too many of my brother Marines have died because of the AK and I refuse to own the weapon of my enemies. |
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The entire rifle was buried up to the end of the stock in a sand bank, for only God knows how long. The barrel was packed with sand, hard as cement.
Took a couple days of cleaning to free the bore of sand. Once cleaned up, she fired just fine. No idea about accuracy, but I wouldn’t want to be on the receiving end either way. 
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Mock the AK all you want. Your weapon structurally failed and your life could have depended upon it. 25. Use a gun that works EVERY TIME. "All skill is in vain when an Angel blows the powder from the flintlock of your musket." At a practice session, throw you gun into the mud, then make sure it still works. You can clean it later. Oh, yeah on second thought. Better not throw that AR15 in the mud, then things will really get interesting. putting in a drop in trigger unit without using kns anti-rotation pins was asking for trouble. and this throw your gun in the mud stuff is annoying. Who the hell would throw their match grade AR in the mud. AKs are predominantly used by terrorists and armies from third world countries for a reason....because the trigger pullers behind them are slightly smarter than your average baboon and treat their rifles as such. if you give a gun loose enough tolerances, it can become reliable. there are more to combat weapons than being able to throw them in the mud  how about accuracy, light weight, simplicity, superior sighting options, as well as superior range.That doesn't matter, only the ability to throw sand in a receiver and have it work even when I purposely don't lubricate it or maintain it properly matter
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Mock the AK all you want. Your weapon structurally failed and your life could have depended upon it. 25. Use a gun that works EVERY TIME. "All skill is in vain when an Angel blows the powder from the flintlock of your musket." At a practice session, throw you gun into the mud, then make sure it still works. You can clean it later. Oh, yeah on second thought. Better not throw that AR15 in the mud, then things will really get interesting. I take care of my AR and it works everytime. Too many of my brother Marines have died because of the AK and I refuse to own the weapon of my enemies. When my brother returned from Iraq we went to the gun range and rented a AR-15 , I asked if he wanted to rent an AK , he said " I never want to hear the sound of those guns again " made sense to me |
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The entire rifle was buried up to the end of the stock in a sand bank, for only God knows how long. The barrel was packed with sand, hard as cement. Took a couple days of cleaning to free the bore of sand. Once cleaned up, she fired just fine. No idea about accuracy, but I wouldn’t want to be on the receiving end either way. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Metroliner/AK1sm.jpg Nice unsecure weapon you got there in the background
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The entire rifle was buried up to the end of the stock in a sand bank, for only God knows how long. The barrel was packed with sand, hard as cement. Took a couple days of cleaning to free the bore of sand. Once cleaned up, she fired just fine. No idea about accuracy, but I wouldn’t want to be on the receiving end either way. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Metroliner/AK1sm.jpg Nice unsecure weapon you got there in the background
If you can't reach out and touch your weapon, you're wrong!!
That said, it might not be QUIB's. Woe to the trooper that I caught doing this......
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Wow....just wow!
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I don't get why people think AK's are so reliable. Evidently they own them, but don't shoot them. Mine stove-pipe all the time. The others I see at the range stovepipe all the time. With good Mags my AR's are 10 times more reliable.
And Jewell triggers are crap. I quit using them in High Power competition 10 years ago. I used Milazo-Krieger triggers till the Geiselles were available. |
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This dude at the range was blasting his AK at a minute of person target at 100 yards today and happy with his 10" groups. I proceeded to put a few rounds into the eye balls of the human target with my match AR. to their amazement. (the dudes spotter was calling my rounds which was annoying as hell. On the third shot my trigger felt like crap and I pulled the round off target.. Looking down I noticed that the pin in my Jewel trigger had walked and got into a SERIOUS bind.. I played it off and put the rifle on the rack. Saying well I guess I took him out or something to the effect and cursed my rifle under my breath.... Time for some KNS pins I guess, glad I was not in a High Power Match. They are worth the cost, never thought so untill now. Oh mercy me, if only MarkM were still here!!! 
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I have two Yugo Ak47s, one Robarms XCR, and one Bushmaster M4 (*plus many, many, more firearms). I love my AKs and the 7.62x39mm round that will bust bricks and intermediate cover with ease with short range accuracy. But, then again I love 5.56mm/2.23 and AR platform for the egronomics and EXTREME accuracy. Either gun is good to go with proper training.
My AKs shoot a 3" moa @ 100 yards with irons (not too shabby). Yeah, I am not shooting clover leafs. But, that damn round will bust the crap out of a cinder block. Truthfully, the better gun is a AR15/M4gery. Truthfully, if one has to shoot more than 1,000 rounds in a gun fight without cleaning..................They are probably a deadman to begin with. And yes, I actually have gun fight experience. |
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I have two AK's. The amd65 screw build I built myself, and a Yugo UF I had built by Ken Kubin. Both have been 100% reliable through hundreds of rounds. The Yugo will do 2-3 inches at 100 yards, the amd65 4-5 inches.
I have noticed that some AK shooters, perhaps buying into the "AK's aren't accurate" thing just don't apply basic marksmanship techniques––breathing, sight picture, trigger control. I also have a retro AR15 A1 clone I built (assembled, really) which I love to shoot. |
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Just before the AWB, I was at a gun store and was buying my first M17. the guy with me said fuck that POS, I'm buying an AK...(he bought a mac90)... two weeks later we at the range...I dump five mags..just to warm the new baby up. He steps up and gets 3 shots off...JAM.... Drops that mag, clears the jam....gets off 5 more shots...JAM Drops the mag, clears the jam...gets off 1/2 a mag....JAM nice weapon you got there...
"yeah I may have to re-build some parts on it"...Hows that bullpup thing? Works like a charm. We shot the M17 and my ARs all day. The Mac90 stayed in the trunk..and to my knowledge never fired more then a mag without jamming its whole 5 year life with him. AKs are not what the hype sells them as. Yup.... AKs are jam -a- matics . I own several and I cant get one of them to run through a complete magazine. Especially the Mac90........... jam , stovepipe, jam, double feed, stovepipe ect... I am hoping both those posts were sarcasm. Two people shoot two fucked up AK's and all AK's are shit. Makes sense to me 
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