[ARCHIVED THREAD] - The WWII Fighter Thread (Page 1 of 4)
Posted: 10/13/2008 9:32:32 PM EDT
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OK, just sitting here surfing, and reading the QF-4 thread. I am a huge WWII buff, primarily aviation. Everyone knows and loves the P-51, P-38, P-47, ME 109, FW190, Zero, etc......but my interests lie more toward the obscure. The workhorses of the fighter world....the ones that never got the glory, but shared in the fight.... This thread is for the not so well known fighters....post what you got.... Bell P-39 Airacobra  Brewster F2A Buffalo  Macchi Mc.202  Hawker Tempest  CAC Boomerang  Dewoitine D.520  IAR 80  Reggiane Re.2005  Rogožarski IK-3  I will see what else I can dig up..... |
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The P-47 Thunderbolt actually contributed much more to USAAF victory in the air war over Europe than the P-51 Mustang did, but for some reason the Mustang seems to cop all the glory today. Late war German experiments with the Focke Wulf Fw-190 "Dora 9" variant were amazing. |
The first one looks like the plane down the road from me at a local airport but it is painted navy silver with navy on the side ,If it is still there in the daylight i will try and get a pic of it . |
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One of my favorites, P-61 Black Widow http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i262/nexxus666/p61_large.jpg |
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The Hellcat produced more aces than any other American plane in WWII. This is quite amazing considering the A6M's superior performance in basically every aspect. I, too, am a huge "Cat" fan, from the Wildcat to the Bearcat. Had the war progressed a bit longer, the F8F would have been regarded as the best prop driven fighter ever produced, in my opinion. |
I like them both, but you're right... the radial engine is more robust and the F4U handled better.  Here's an eval: |
I had a model of a P61 when I was younger, very cool. |
I'll bet they never tried that comparison again... with a P51D.  Comparing a B model 51 to most other aircraft and it did - OK. The D model gained the Packard V-1650-7 Merlin engine; everything changed after that.
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| No pic, but I am going to assume you are referring to the FW190...an incredible machine. Nonetheless, I think the Allies had caught and were surpassing the Germans in the waning of the war, with aircraft like the P51D, P47N, MkVII Spitfire, and the Tempest V. |
And by all accounts, the F4U-4 still surpassed it with its Pratt and Whitney R2800 radial. The P51D/K was an awesome machine, but by the time it rolled around, there were other players such as the P47N and the F4U-4, which could perform just as well. One area the Mustang could not be beat was range, and that was its true claim to fame. |
How the hell does the F-6F always get left out?  Navy and Marine F6Fs flew 66,530 combat sorties (45% of all fighter sorties of the war, 62,386 sorties were flown from aircraft carriers[16]) and destroyed 5,163 (56% of all Naval/Marine air victories of the war) at a cost of 270 Hellcats (an overall kill-to-loss ratio of 19:1).[17] The aircraft performed well against the best Japanese opponents with a 13:1 kill ratio against Mitsubishi A6M, 9.5:1 against Nakajima Ki-84, and 3.7:1 against Mitsubishi J2M during the last year of the war.[18] The F6F became the prime ace-maker aircraft in the American inventory, with 306 Hellcat aces.[19] That being said, it must be noted that the U.S. successes were not only attributed to superior aircraft, but also because they faced increasingly inexperienced Japanese aviators from 1942 onwards, as well as having the advantage of ever-increasing numerical superiority. |
According to the movie, it was Josh Hartnett in a P-40. Then Ben Affleck. |
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Just missed the war but cool none-the-less... F-82 Twin Mustang http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i262/nexxus666/F82_twin_mustang.jpg |
Nonsense! The P-51 was THE fighter that lost the war for the Germans. The day Mustangs flew over Berlin it was all over bar the shouting. You lose air superiority over your home turf and you lose a war. Thunderbolts were fine planes, but they couldn't climb and turn with the latest German fighters, a Mustang could and beat them. A P-47 couldn't fly to Berlin either, it was a ground pounder and a very good one, but it was never on par with the opposing fighters. |
The Germans had already dropped behind in 1940. The pre war Bf 109 was already past it's sell by date and running out of steam as a design. The FW-190 was better, but it was still a 1937 design. It only had a 6 month window of superiority over the Spitfire in late 41, early 42 before the Mk IX Spitfire once more outclassed it. The Germans never developed and fielded any new designs in quantity during WWII, it cost them the war. The backbone of the Luftwaffe in May 1945 were still the Bf-109 and FW-190 fighters, Heinkel HE-111 and JU-88 bombers and the old Stuka. All pre war designs. |
The ONLY reason the Mustang gained the notoriety it did was due to its range. Of course it defeated the Germans, it was the one that could get there and back to do so. It was a fantastic fighter in its own right, but there were others that were its equal. The P47, in its 'N' iteration were every bit the dogfighter the Mustang was, and could tangle with anything the Germans had to offer. The P47N also had the range sufficient to escort the heavies from England to Berlin and back, but by the time it was operational, all but one Fighter Group had transitioned to the Mustang. I make no attempt to slight the Mustang or her pilots, but to discount the P47 as a light bomber is to do her a great disservice. |
Not even a fighter.... 
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The N model Thunderbolt didn't enter service until the beginning of 1945 and never operated in the ETO, they were Pacific only planes. No P-47 pilots memoirs I've read ever claimed the P-47 was a dogfighter by any stretch of the imagination, it was a dive, shoot and dive away fighter, not a turner. The Mustang was a superbly agile fighter, range was a big plus, but the combination of a 1st class fighter that could fight any opposing fighter on equal or better terms and that had an unparralled range was the key. only the late model Spitfires or a Corsair could best a Mustang in a turning fight. It was a winner from the very first day it entered combat with the RAF in Spring 1942 and was always treated with great respect by the Luftwaffe. THe P-47 was relegated to ground attack missions quite simply because it was better at that and the Mustang was the better dogfighter pure and simple. |
 Gunther Rall got to fly all the captured Allied fighters, the P-51 really impressed him. In his mind it was everything the Bf-109 should have been; he loved the wing, wide landing gear, and all that extra fuel plus he remarked that the guns in the wings was easier for newbies to get used to. I think he also was rather fond of it because it was so similar to a Bf-109 that he said it just seemed natural to him. Kind of hard to counter the greatest deflection shooter ever and the 3rd highest ranking ace of all-time at 275 victories. BTW, his last 3 victories were P-47's, he smoked Hub Zemke's wingman and almost got Hub Zemke himself. Hub Zemke remarked after the war, had he known that Bf-109 was flown by Rall, he would have been very scared!!!! |
Yep.   Being picked up by a sub after being shot down.   |
Drools  A Bearcat and Seafury, pure unadulterated fighter pr0n. 
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Nothing with a prop climbs like a Bearcat… 6,300ft/min 
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Well naturally the Mustang has a certain Germanic look, Edgar Schmued was a German and had done his engineering apprenticeship there. Contrary to popular myth, he didn't work for Messerschmitt, but he did visit their factory in 1938 while working at NAA. |
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Found a Gunther Rall speaking engagement from Finland.www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/photoreports/guntherrall2003/ One of his best comments was when somebody asked him about the best tactics against the P-47s.... Rall (very quickly, without any hesitation): Shoot it down, of course :) Rall told that he was for a short time in a unit that toured the Luftwaffe units, presenting the captured allied planes and education about their properties. He had some stick time with P-38, P-47 and P-51. Of those planes he told that he thought the P-51 was the best. I asked him what he thought of the match up between late model 109's against those allied types he had flown. He answered that the worst shortcoming in 109 was the limited range, but P-38 and P-47 did not pose that much of a problem. But the P-51 was more difficult, very comparable to Bf 109 in actual combat. But as he said, P-51 could do it for a few hours longer in a flight. First of all he didn't like the slats in the 109, he more of wished to have a larger wing than these slats on the 109 His favorite Messerschmitt was the Bf109F-4. He said it could tangle with anything the enemy could put up and was the best of 109's, not too heavy etc. Later on he mentioned that the Russian pilots weren't some dumb target drones, but gave them a real challenge to tangle with. Especially the Guards Regiment's were tough and proud opponents. As interesting side not he said that in the Southern Front VVS had more than 1/3 of their planes of lend-lease types like Spitfire, P39 etc. Conditions were rough, they had to live in tents and moved from field to another pretty often. He didn't call the fields airfields but "lawns"..usually they were a place made suitable for flight operations and were hastily made to accommodate a few planes. He gave great respect to the work mechanics did to keep the planes airworthy. When asked about 109 vs. enemy planes he answered that the most dangerous plane in the west was P51D. He had flown the captured planes, including P38, P47 and P51. P51 was according to the ace fast, good guns and long range with pretty good maneuverability. 109 could still hold it's own against it. Of the P47 he mentioned that diving away from it was not preferable since the tremendous dive speed of P47 made it hard to get away from. It also had great structural strength. About maneuverability he said the 109 had no problems staying with it in any move. As a joke he mentioned the best tactic against P47 was "to shoot it down". He also mentioned that P47's used to circle German bases and shoot down the 109's returning with low fuel and no ammo.. Rall said a lot of pilots went down because of that. Enemy had superior number of planes and didn't lack fuel, pilots and such like LW did. In Russian front Rall respected most the La5FN and La7. He said that especially the La7 was a very mighty opponent and both Lai-s could outspeed his G-6 with ease when he tried to chase them. About VVS he said that they learned very quick from the early war losses and later on came back in overwhelming numbers making the life of Jagdflieger pretty rough. Places Rall mentioned were Taman, Krymskaya, Kursk, Orel, Crimea, Sevastopol, Kerch etc. |
 Allied "Ace of Aces" Ivan Kozhedub's La-7. 62 confirmed kills in 120 aerial engagements including one Me-262. |