Posted: 9/29/2008 2:24:40 PM EDT
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On another forum I frequent, someone started a topic about that recent shooting in Finland. A British moderator there who is in the RAF academy, said "civilians don't deserve the right to own guns, and I wish that the EU would adopt UK law." Later he says we shouldn't be allowed to own guns without military training, and that a nationwide ban should be implemented. He's not scared of guns, quite the opposite in fact, he just believes us peons shouldn't be able to own guns. I've been trying to come up with a reply to his posts, maybe you guys can give me a few pointers? |
Is his name "Gage"? |
Nope. |
| Thats a tough one, but with so many deaths caused by people who should NOT have guns (ie BGs), how can someone disarm the people who need the protection? Is it possible to have an armed officer at the scence before a murder happens? Are gun related shootings at zero in a "no gun" place?? Is it guaranteed that an LEO, military, retired or active, free of committing a crime involving a weapon?? Is it possible, in a gun free state, that no gun crimes happen. Our history shows that "no" is the answer to all of these. Why should a retired LEO be able to carry? To protect from all those that he has arrested and/or his training?? Most LEOs have far less "on-going" training than those who excercise their weapons. No matter what someone states, there will always be those who don't like guns... |
Oh. Just thought he might be related to another British military officer who had a similar idea of disarming Americans. |
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First batch of quotes. [quote name='GoldenElite0' date='Sep 23 2008, 03:55 PM' post='71125'] Did they? He went to hospital if that's what you mean, but when a suspect needs medical attnetion they have guards with them. Finland is a screw up, they have 40 guns per hunderd people. Civilians do not desreve the right to have guns and I wish the EU would copy UK law. [quote name='GoldenElite0' date='Sep 24 2008, 03:08 AM' post='71271'] That's right, the UK has higher rates of gun crime than the US. Oh wait... [quote name='GoldenElite0' date='Sep 24 2008, 04:17 AM' post='71277'] Well In 2004 the UK had 1.4 murders per 100,000 of population and 6% were due to firearms. In the same year USA had 5.5 murders per 100,000 of population and 66% were due to firearms. The stats are a bit distorted with an 'anomally' because the murders include the 7/7 london bombings andgun crime has seen a slight increase since,but it is still nowhere near as bad as the United States. At the moment we have more troubles with knife crime anyway and I don't know how that compares in the States. [quote name='GoldenElite0' date='Sep 24 2008, 02:54 PM' post='71395'] The statistics are per 100,000. So UK was 1.4 people murdered per 100,000 and USA was 5.5 per 100,000. But you present an interesting point. In the UK the population is far denser and yet somehow there are fewer gun related murders. [quote name='GoldenElite0' date='Sep 24 2008, 03:47 PM' post='71406'] Canada is midrange gun control and I think it was 1.82 per 100,000. Interestingly enough in Switzerland gun control is perhaps the most relaxed in the world and many people possess a firearm but the country has the lowest homicide rate due to firearms. This is largely attribute to the mandatory military enrolment which citizens have to partake in training a few times year. This just proves my point that guns are not for civilians and only military personel can be trusted with them. |
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I Own Firearms Because A Bunch Of Old, Dead, White Folks Said I Should: 1) "The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." ~ Alexander Hamilton. 2) "Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property." ~ Thomas Paine. 3) "Americans need not fear the federal government because they enjoy the advantage of being armed, which you possess over the people of almost every other nation." ~ James Madison. 4) "Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks." ~ Thomas Jefferson. 5) "The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun." ~ Patrick Henry. 6) "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes" ~ Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria. 7) "To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them." ~ George Mason. 8) "The said Constitution be never construed... to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." ~ Samuel Adams. 9) "But the right of citizens to bear arms is just one more guarantee against arbitrary government, and one more safeguard against a tyranny which now appears remote in America, but which historically has proved to be always possible." ~ Hubert Humphrey. 10) "I carried it (a revolver) religiously and during the summer I asked a friend, a man who had been one of Franklin's bodyguards in New York State, to give me some practice in target shooting so that if the need arose I would know how to use the gun." ~ Eleanore Roosevelt. 11) "By calling attention to 'a well regulated militia', the 'security' of the nation, and the right of each citizen 'to keep and bear arms', our founding fathers recognized the essentially civilian nature of our economy. Although it is extremely unlikely that the fears of governmental tyranny which gave rise to the Second Amendment will ever be a major danger to our nation, the Amendment still remains an important declaration of our basic civilian-military relationships, in which every citizen must be ready to participate in the defense of his country. For that reason, I believe the Second Amendment will always be important." ~ John F. Kennedy. 12) "Mightn't it be better in those areas of high crime to arm the homeowner and the shopkeeper, teach him how to use his weapons and put the word out to the underworld that it is no longer totally safe to rob and murder? One wonders indeed if the rising crime rate isn't due as much as anything to the criminal's instinctive knowledge that the average victim no longer has any means of protection. No one knows how many crimes are committed because the criminal knows he has a soft touch. No one knows how many stores have been left alone because the criminals knew them to be guarded by a man with a gun." ~ Ronald Reagan. 13) "There is no doubt in my mind that millions of lives could have been saved if the people had not been 'brainwashed' about gun ownership and they had been well armed. Hitler's thugs and goons were not very brave when confronted by a gun. Gun haters always want to forget the Warsaw Ghetto uprising, which is a perfect example of how a ragtag, half starved group of Jews took up 10 handguns and made asses out of the Nazi's." ~ Theodore Haas, former prisoner Dachau concentration camp. I Own Firearms Because History Says I Should: 14) 1911: Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. 15) 1929: Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 40-60 million citizens, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated or starved to death. 16) 1935: China established gun control. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. 17) 1938: Germany established gun control. From 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews, Catholics and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated. 18) 1956: Cambodia established gun control. From 1975 to 1977, one million 'educated' people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated." 19) 1964: Guatemala established gun control. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. 20) 1966-1976: China still has gun control. Another 50-100 million civilians, unable to defend themselves, were killed in Mao Tse Tung's "Cultural Revolution". 21) 1970: Uganda established gun control. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. 22) 1990s: Rwanda established gun control. In a span of 100 days in April 1994, 800,000 people who were unable to defend themselves were massacred to death - most by machetes. How many dead, hacked-up bodies do you think were found holding a loaded gun? (answer is less than one) 23) 1992: Los Angeles California, USA. For three days police stood by and watched, unable to stop the rioting, arson and destruction of whole neighborhoods. Yet many Korean stores were virtually untouched - protected by their well-armed storeowners who exercised their right to self-defense through their right to keep and bear arms and who did for themselves what the police were unwilling or unable to do. 24) Late 1990s: Great Britain established total gun control. Robberies, burglaries and assaults have skyrocketted making London's violent crime rate now higher than anywhere in America. 25) 2005: New Orleans hit by hurricane. Widespread catastrophe, no law enforcement across most of the city for weeks. Some citizens protected themselves with firearms - until NOLA police began confiscating them "for their own protection", leaving even the elderly unable to defend themselves against roving gangs of looters. I Own Firearms Because It Is My God-Given Right To Self-Defense: 26) "If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed." ~ Exodus 22:2 27) "...he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one." ~ Luke 22:36 28) "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are in peace." ~ Luke 11:21 29) "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." ~ Declaration of Independence. I Own Firearms Because I Have Common Sense: 30) The second amendment is not dependant on the most recent crime statistics - nor is my right to own a gun contingent on what criminals do. 31) 2 million times a year, private citizens successfully use firearms to defend themselves from criminals. 32) Criminals fear victims holding guns, not victims holding phones. I Own Firearms Because There Are Those With Power Who, If Given The Chance, Would Force Me To Relinquish Them: 33) "Banning guns addresses a fundamental right of Americans to feel safe." ~ Sen. Diane Feinstein, D-CA. 34) "We're going to hammer guns on the anvil of relentless legislative strategy! We're going to beat guns into submission!" ~ Rep. (now Senator) Charles Schumer D-NY. 35) "Senator Ashcroft is so far out of the mainstream that he has said that citizens need to be armed in order to protect themselves against a tyrannical government. Our government? Tyrannical?" ~ Sen. Ted Kennedy D-MA, at John Ashcroft's Senate confirmation hearing, 2001. 36) "The sale of guns must stop. Halfway measures are not enough." ~ Sarah Brady. 37) "Banning guns is an idea whose time has come." ~ Sen. Joseph Biden, D-DE. 38) "I don't believe that everybody in America needs to be able to buy a semi-automatic or fully-automatic weapon, built only for the purpose of killing people, in order to protect the right of Americans to hunt and practice marksmanship and to be secure." ~ Bill Clinton. 39) "I don't care about crime. I just want to get the guns." ~ Former Senator Howard Metzenbaum, D-OH during Brady Bill debates. 40) "If someone is so fearful that, that they're going to start using their weapons to protect their rights, makes me very nervous that these people have these weapons at all!" ~ Rep. Henry Waxman, D-NY, 5/2001 MSNBC report on .50BMG rifles. |
Well, the UK and the US are a little different geographically. I'm guessing the UK can have more law enforcement per square mile. |
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TOTAL CRIMES: United Kingdom: 85.5517 per 1,000 people United States: 80.0645 per 1,000 people BURGLARIES: United Kingdom: 13.8321 per 1,000 people United States: 7.09996 per 1,000 people CAR THEFTS: United Kingdom: 5.6054 per 1,000 people United States: 3.8795 per 1,000 people ROBBERIES: United Kingdom: 1.57433 per 1,000 people United States: 1.38838 per 1,000 people ASSAULT VICTIMS: United Kingdom: 2.8% of total population United States: 1.2% of total population PROPERTY CRIME VICTIMS: United Kingdom: 12.2% of total population United States: 10% of total population RAPE VICTIMS: United Kingdom: 0.9% of total population United States: 0.4% of total population PUBLIC PERCEPTION OF SAFETY (FEEL SAFE WALKING OUTSIDE IN THE DARK) United States: 82% United Kingdom: 70% PUBLIC PERCEPTION OF SAFETY (FEEL LITTLE RISK OF BURGLARY IN HOME) United States: 78% United Kingdom: 58% Source |
   One more time: "There is no doubt in my mind that millions of lives could have been saved if the people had not been 'brainwashed' about gun ownership and they had been well armed. Hitler's thugs and goons were not very brave when confronted by a gun. Gun haters always want to forget the Warsaw Ghetto uprising, which is a perfect example of how a ragtag, half starved group of Jews took up 10 handguns and made asses out of the Nazi's." ~ Theodore Haas, former prisoner Dachau concentration camp. |