Posted: 9/25/2008 10:41:14 PM EDT
| Let's say to stop drinking, which step is actually not drinking? Step 1? Or towards the end, like step 12? |
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Are we sniping AA? Or do you want to stop? Penn and Teller's BS did a good expose on AA and the 12 steps. Now what they used was European comparison. Unfortunately, that doesn't really apply here because we have a much different genetic makeup. Alcoholism is rampant in Native Americans so that IS a difference. If you are European, chances are AA won't do much better than cold turkey. But for Native Americans, it works better. You stop drinking until you start again. |
When you decide to stop drinking? They admit to being powerless and that only the group and a "higher power" will keep them from drinking. Well, if you need a group... |
This isn't about me personally. I have never had a drinking problem. My question has nothing to do with drinking. |
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Steps have absolutely nothing to do with stopping drinking. An Alcoholic can stop drinking through any number of environments (Solitary confinement, strapped down in a nut house, etc). The steps assist you in not picking up a drink after you have quit drinking. That is the short answer. An alcoholic bottom is where the drunk stops, then come the AA steps. |
You can work the Steps drunk, but results are based on an honest desire to get better. being shitfaced and silly negates the steps. The thing that is usually done is the Alcoholic hits their bottom, quits drinking, then starts working the steps. There are many paths to sobriety but this is the most common. |
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12 Step programs tend to be of the mindset that everybody that has a problem (drinking/sex/drugs/etc) is due to some previous error in their life, which they must remedy. That premise is true, in many cases. For others, it replaces /vice/ with the social group, in a 'leave and you will die' feeling. For the latter case, it doesn't work. For the many, it does. Probably the safest bet outside of prison for somebody that has issues. I am curious as to the Actual Question, though. I stopped drinking by, stopping. No guilt or remorse, I realized I was simply bored. --ETA: Re-Read again... Step Zero, unnamed, is "Stop /vice/". Until then, you are not worthy of Step One. |
Correct. AA is about teaching yourself how to deal with a lifelong addiction, and work through it. Slamming it for effectiveness misses the entire point. It's a lifestyle & mindset change, a support group and a system of steps to teach you how to take responsbility for your choices. If you fail at it, it's not AA's fault. If you succeed, it's because you wanted to. It's about as simple as that. |
See my post above. Not about success rates, especially not dealing with a very complex social, genetic & mental issue like alcoholism. Think about it like someone finding religion. Finding it, and believing in it isn't a guarantee of a better person coming out on the other side. Actually using the lessons to change your behavior and lifestyle is what makes you better. Same with AA. Not drinking again happens internally, many people fall off the wagon, but does the AA process help you to deal with your choices, help you to understand and atone for your behavior? You bet, that's what it's for. |
I've known 3 people who entered AA. All three ended up actually worse than before. The 'social networking' aspect led them to come into contact with individuals who regularly consumed narcotics. |
I've counseled addicts, going on the hundreds. Your 3 anecdotes don't mean shit to me. I've seen people turn their lives around through AA....a great number of them. I've seen failures too. Read what I said again. AA isn't for curing you, it's a system of allowing you to relearn your life as an addict. |
Yes, but many people have a different conception of AA. A lot of people are actually under the delusion that AA will rid them of their habit. |
Yes. My name is Billmanweh, and I am an alcoholic. Just don't tell anybody else. |
| I have 2 people in my life that have been sober, with the help of AA, for 38 years. One has unfortunately passed from lung cancer and the other one know that if they have a drink, they will more than likely die from it. I truly don't believe they could have done it without the 12 step program... |
No, it is supposed to provide the individual with the option of whether they want it to remain anonymous. Huge difference. |
I've always been partial to the 13th step!  All kidding aside,alcahol addiction,or any addiction for that matter can take a heavy toll on the abuser and their family. I had an aunt who broke into our house when I was a kid. My Dad beat the shit out of her and never spoke to her again,he refused to see her even before he passed away. So,yes,those caught in the horrible grip of addiction must be willing to help themselves first. I think that's what the 12 steps are all about. When I used to bartend,I met a few of them that would hang with their freinds(don't ask me what they were doing in a bar!),maybe they were just designated drivers,who knows,so I would give them free juices all night. |
If it wasn't valuable, people wouldn't use it & they sure as hell wouldn't volunteer their time & energy being sponsors. And, sponsorship is another reason to view it with admiration. It's not a profit organization, and the people who selflessly and tirelessly make themselves available to those in the program are doing a thankless, honorable job for the addict, themselves, and the rest of us. Don't think much of AA? Go to a meeting - they have them everywhere, they're free, and all of us knows someone with a problem. It's worth any adult's time to sit in and get a feel for what it is and what they do. It's not a cult, or a gimmick. It's just a big network of people who have been there and are trying to help those trying. |
| I much prefer to counsel people to follow the Bob Newhart Method.. |
If you make this commitment please attend several meetings. It is several hours out of your life, but AA meetings have their own personality, just like bars, so you could find one that better fits your personality. As for the person who stated they knew three people who drank after attending AA...drinking is bad with the voices in your head, stop drinking, finding out their is a solution, then start drinking again - really accelerates the slide towards the bottom. I know this will sound stupid, but Alcohol is but a symptom of Alcoholism. |
Explain Scientology. |
An addictive personality can be addicted to anything, or any number of things.. I have absolutely no experience with AA.. Rather experience with whats called "substitute addiction.." Give up drinking (or other vice) to begin another, whether it be sex, drugs, gambling etc.. |