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Posted: 11/26/2001 9:18:40 PM EDT
Below is what I posted in a topic about SHTF... it was a limited one, mainly asking what AR to grab in a rush. I expanded it. But I want to expand this. I konw that there are a lot of SHTF senarios. There also are many, many ways of getting ready....from the mild to the plain and out right insane(?) (ie making a bunker under the drive way ... pulling out of my rear example). There are different senarios.... from power outages to biological outbrakes(sp)...from highly possible to down right 1 in 1,000,000,000 (what ever number of zeros you want to put). So lets keep it down to earth, practical, probable. (Confication of firearms..... not in the next few years.) Lets see..... terrorist attack, biological attack/scare with some 'targets' like power plants or power lines to major cities. This results in lost of power to say...a multi state area (example California, Oregon, Washington...but could be eastern states too) for an extended period of time, say 9 days during this time of year (Nov/Dec). There are populated and unpopulated areas affected. Cities may experiance looting, civil unrest. Country areas have no power, but people are isolated. Other senarios.... your neighborhood (burbs) is being looted by a lot of people (mob-25-50). Your neighbors have cleared out to shelters earlier in the week. You and your family (significant other & 2.5 kids, pet) are home. It is about 2am, there was no warning of the looting. What do you do if you have to abandon your home in less then 4 min? What should you have ready to grab on your way out? Or you are in the country. No power, your nearest neighbor is 1 or so mile away. People have been instructed to go to town where the shelters are (ie high school gyms, so on) You stay home, but you have heard of looting going on by a gange on the radio. You think you are safe, but ...... same question, what do you have ready if you have to leave at a moments notice.??
There's a lot about SHTF senarios. I'm quite sure that at some point and time, somewhere on this board or others, someone has suggested making a SHTF 'kit'. Maybe a medium/large backpack (school backpack). Things to have (in my limited experiance/opinion...aka pulling it out of my rear) for one person: *flashlight w/ 2 sets of batteries *4-5 30rnd mags for rifle (AR or AK; what ever) * 6 stripper clips and guide *pistol (revolver, if you don't want to put your toy/carry weopon in there.... w/ enough ammo for 5 reloads) Just in case you don't get your rifle. *water (1qt or 2) *food (dried or canned w/ quick open type)or MRE's *water proof matches or lighter *compass or GPS receiver *map(s) *money ($50.00 in $1,$5 &$10's) *gloves *space age blanket That's all I can think of off the top of my head. That might be a lot of stuff...... but it's one of those things you don't touch, is ready (like a fist aid kit.) I would put a Kel Tec Sub 9/40 or Sub 2000 in their w/ what ever semi auto pistol is in their. Might make it heavier, but you can have a backup to the pistol (and uses the same mags) and backup to the AR if it's lost or runs out of ammo. A Sub 9/40 in Glock would be nice (Scherer 29rnd 40 mags)..... (Do I have one of these.....no, just thinking of what I would want. Doesn't mean it's rational, practical.)
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Link Posted: 11/26/2001 9:20:12 PM EDT
So, does any of you think Kaliburz has gone off the deep end... gone swiming when one can't swim? I know this has a lot of suggestions and you can find tons of stuff at gun shows on 'survival in the forest' or what ever. I'm talking about what kind of stuff one can have ready weopon wise, emergency if one had to leave your home? Something you can run with if you had to? (I must be board out of my mind....... why else would I think of posting something like this......) Oh well. Something to entertain, yet be helpfull (maybe.) Happy Holidays. (Was way too big, so I had to do two....yipes!)
Link Posted: 11/26/2001 9:25:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/26/2001 9:35:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/26/2001 9:29:58 PM EDT by jhasz]
Ok, I'll bite... First, to give you a little background and do you know where my experience and knowledge comes from, I need to let you know that one of my other hobbies is sailing - that is I hope to someday go blue water sailing, but currently it's out on the deep near shore. TS can HTF out there in a big hurry - and you must be prepared at all times. preperation means having all the tools in one place in the boat. Or knowing what you have and where you have it. The second lesson that I've come away from my experiences (and talking with and reading a TON of accounts) is that when SHTF out there, in a storm situation, the dictum seems to be "stay with the boat" in nearly all cases. In those cases where the sailors left the boat for various reasons (like they thought it would be safer) it usually was proven that they would have been better off staying with the boat. How does that apply in this scenario? Well you have nearly everyone leaving the neighborhood - except you. So far you've done really good, you've "stayed with the boat" - but I think that if you've stayed there long enough to have roaming bands of "bad-guys" start coming around, you shouldn't try to get out at that point, you should "stay with the house" After all, you're on your turf. You know your house and property better than most gangs would, and could set up areas that they'd have to go through to get to you, allowing you a true defense. Plus if you've stocked the house properly, you would be able to sit out most "seiges" for the period that you've set in the scenario. Food, water, ammo, etc... the water might be a problem, but if you got on top of it early enough in the crisis, you could arrange something. You might need a real good bath or shower when it was all over, but you would have most likely made it. Of course, you'd have to do something else that's done by sailors - set up a watch list. Rotating shifts with someone else (wife, 2.5 kids, if old enough - maybe a friend) to keep watch during some off hours - 3 or 4 hours for you, the same for each of the others to cover at least the night if not 'round the clock. So there it is, you now know that I'll be staying in the house, unless it's really bad right where I am.
Link Posted: 11/26/2001 9:45:07 PM EDT
Etire books and entire websites have been devoted to this topic. I fill the trunk of a Crown Vic just trying to be prepared for a 10hours shift at work. So If your looking for a minimalist approach, I'm the wrong guy to ask. try here [url]http://www.us-rsog.org/USRSOG-Equipment.htm[/url]
Link Posted: 11/26/2001 9:56:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/26/2001 10:00:32 PM EDT
I would have to agree with the things you suggested to take. The most important things are food, water, shelter, extra clothing (if cold), and plenty of ammo for your guns. A first aid kit is important too. jhasz has the right idea on sticking around the house. It's best to have your house fairly cleared of bushes and trees for the BG to hide behind, so you have a good view. If you get your windows and doors blocked so it's much harder to get in (bars on windows, something?? for the doors), something you can remove if you need to escape, but hard for the BG to get in. Your house will be a fortress (to a small degree), but safer than being out in your car. You can keep more food and water at home than you can take with you, so it's better that way. My worst case scenario is someone breaking in while I'm in the shower!! What do you do???? :)
Link Posted: 11/26/2001 10:02:30 PM EDT
whatever you do, DO NOT FORGET TO HAVE ENOUGH TOILET PAPER!!!! just imagine going a week without such a wonderfull invention as TP. butt wiping lib
Link Posted: 11/26/2001 10:53:32 PM EDT
Here's another good reference site: [url]http://www.equipped.com/[/url] Check the links in the left margin for good info. -kill-9
Link Posted: 11/26/2001 11:19:16 PM EDT
Other senarios.... your neighborhood (burbs) is being looted by a lot of people (mob-25-50). Your neighbors have cleared out to shelters earlier in the week. You and your family (significant other & 2.5 kids, pet) are home. It is about 2am, there was no warning of the looting. What do you do if you have to abandon your home in less then 4 min? What should you have ready to grab on your way out?
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On my way out?!?!? This is the place I make my stand. The *last* thing I want to become is a refugee, they are just too vulnerable. The Bunker Mentality: All of our supplies are here, food, water purifiers, alternative heating sources, medical supplies, etc. I assume, if the rest of the neighborhood has already cleared out, we would be on high alert, mags loaded, guns within reach. I will have ample warning of anything even walking down my block at 2AM from my dogs. I know the sight lines from every one of this house's windows. At 2AM, the family is all home. If there are only 25-50 rioting looters.....heck, this is a prairie dog shoot with closer, bigger targets. If anything *does* break the perimeter, and enter the house, they will have 4 Rottweilers to greet them, allowing us ample time, I believe, to provide excellent backup to the dogs. With our sight lines, I don't think anything could get close enough to the house to torch it. All I need to do is dig the moat.....maybe I can make it look like landscaping :)
Link Posted: 11/26/2001 11:48:21 PM EDT
No where near what you guys are thinking about, but I had a little scare here today. The power went out, I was welding in the when I noticed the welder not only quit so did the radio and the lights, it was about 14:45. Walked in the house an made sure all the windows where shut. it was 22 degrees out side. My wife was at work and my daughter in school, no way I was leaving, even though the Bronco had a full tank. I realized then I need a radio that works on batteries, I will have one tomorrow. There has been a rash of kids? (gangs) shooting out windows both car and house in the last couple of weeks. So the Win 1300 Defender was checked and extra rounds laid out. I also picked up another speed loader for the .357 that rides my hip 95% of the time. That gave me three speeploaders on my person. Next I checked the stove, its gas and I can light it with a match. I filled up the bath tub while I got the generator ready to go I ran cords to the refrigerator, then a lamp in the kitchen, then down stairs to a lamp (halogen, lots of heat generated), a radio and the TV and the puter of course[:)] Then I went online and came to AR15.com, to read. The wife came home and I made sure she was watching TV with my daughter, because the family room is below ground level. No big deal really the power came on 6 hours later. But I have decided there are a few more things I need to do, like wire a cord in to the breaker box so I don't have extensions all over the house, and mark the breakers as to which one to shut off, the generator can't run the whole house. A little OT. Sorry for the long post.
Link Posted: 11/27/2001 4:23:57 AM EDT
Guns and ammo, man, you need [b]LOTS[/b] of guns and ammo. When TSHTF, the only thing to do is start shooting. When the spikey-haired mutants come flooding across your lawn, intent on sodomizing you to death and then eating you, do you think you are going to care about water filters or toilet paper? At a very minimum, every member of your family needs an M1A with quick-detachable mounted starlight scope and mil-dot scope, an AR-15, a Remington 870, and a 1911-type pistol. Figure on a minimum of 30 magazines for each rifle and 15 for each pistol, and an extended magazine tube on each 870. You'll also need a minimum of 10,000 rounds per rifle per person and 5,000 rounds per pistol per person and 5,000 rounds buckshot/5,000 rounds slug per shotgun per person. If this sounds a bit scanty, remember we are talking about a minimum here. To really make effective defense against the spikey-haired mutant looters, I would recommend each member of your family also have an ankle-holstered snub revolver with a mixed load of armor-piercing and pre-fragmented ammo as a backup piece and one of the larger Randall-made bowies for last ditch measures. Four Barret Light 50's (one for each direction) with a few thousand rounds of Raufoss armor-piercing incindiary ammo and a few crates of ball ammo per rifle adds a little depth. I'd also consider laying in a crate or two of surplus Mausers or Moisin-Nagants + 2000 rounds per rifle in case you would happen to want to arm poorly prepared neighbors or relatives who turn to you for help. Remember shoot first, then shoot again, then (maybe) ask questions. We're talking about TSHingTF, not playtime. I hope this has been of some assistance.
Link Posted: 11/27/2001 5:02:58 AM EDT
That's not very P.C. Remember, those spikey haired mutants have families, and they are only doing this because of their history of victimization and because of Bush's tax cuts. Try 50 12 guage beanbag rounds and some pepper spray (or if spraying is too violent, you could apply it with q-tips to the eyes like they did to those protesters in Cali). What color ribbon is appropriate for home defense?
Link Posted: 11/27/2001 5:17:19 AM EDT
1) Camo face-paint 2) Dune Buggy. 3) Lots of Molotov Cocktails (to throw on the ENEMY dune buggies) 4) .50 Desert Eagle w/10,000 rounds.
Link Posted: 11/27/2001 5:33:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Major-Murphy: 1) Camo face-paint 2) Dune Buggy. 3) Lots of Molotov Cocktails (to throw on the ENEMY dune buggies) 4) .50 Desert Eagle w/10,000 rounds.
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liveing in the PRNY, i dont think the dune buggey thing is viable. sounds like you should be out west...
Link Posted: 11/27/2001 5:42:06 AM EDT
Nonsense! Dune Buggies are ALWAYS the vehicle of choice for SHTF.
Link Posted: 11/27/2001 5:42:57 AM EDT
My bugout kit and supplies is almost identical to the hurricane preparations suggested by Home Depot in their little hurricane map. I also made sure to read what FEMA had to say on the issue. The only difference is that it has guns and ammo, which the Home Depot sheet doesn't mention. It better be an extreme case if you plan on bugging out, as the absolute best place to be is home turf. I can defend my house if necessary for a time, and have relatives who live close enough who know I can bunker down and support them, provided they bring some of their own supplies, in a SHTF scenario. However, my idea of a SHTF scenario isn't anything nearly as bad as armed terrorists or anything like that. My neighborhood is prone to losing power for long periods of time during bad storms. This year we also had Tropical Storm Alison hover over us for days on end, flooding a lot of people out of their houses and killing many in the flash floods. In that type of situation, where you're driving home from work and get swept up into flood waters (it happens easily), a bugout kit at home isn't going to do you any good. So it's always a good idea to keep things like a first aid kit and other possible bug out provisions in your trunk. If you live near a river or flood area, a flotation device of some sort isn't a bad idea either. Hell, even if you don't it could save your life. Areas that flooded in Houston had NEVER flooded before and it cot many people off guard. God Bless Texas
Link Posted: 11/27/2001 5:52:50 AM EDT
If a mob of 25-50 people were coming my way, I would have NO problem handling them. 12 rifles 72 mags (most are 30 round) 30,000 rounds and one mean ass wife who can shoot better than I can I am not the least bit concerned
Link Posted: 11/27/2001 6:00:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/27/2001 5:56:47 AM EDT by the_survivalist]
Originally Posted By Major-Murphy: Nonsense! Dune Buggies are ALWAYS the vehicle of choice for SHTF.
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its just that these vehicles are usually associated with more arid areas whare there is a lot of space to menuver. (sp?) up here in the boonies, any vehicle would be a hinderance, you couldn't get off the road in most places if you needed to, and whare you can, you can't go far with a vehicle. (too many trees) you would have to abandon it fairly quickly. don't get me wrong, i would love to own one myself.. like the militarys, only without the third seat.,.
Link Posted: 11/27/2001 7:00:37 AM EDT
Dune buggies are a necessity for fighting the running battle w/ the spikey-haired mutants that inevitably occurs when they over-run your principal position. Be sure to have the dune buggies parked in such a way that you can drive them over a ramp and jump the first few ranks of looters. A Lewis Gun or multi-barreled arrow launcher mounted on the roll-bar is a necessity, along with the afore-mentioned molotov cocktails.
Link Posted: 11/27/2001 7:46:39 AM EDT
I have composed my wishlist, and well. It has everything for any situation anywhere and at anytime. It is only a list but it has run to 15,000 American Dollars, and It is just a list for an individual. It gives operational capabilites 24-hours a day in any weather. It doesn't even include the any terrain aspect. It includes all necessary rifles and pistols and shotguns, all BDU's , Level IV body armor. It is the EXTREME SHTF. Total Law breakdown with on-going war ON AMERICAN SOIL Scenario. Totally and completely unlikely.
Link Posted: 11/27/2001 11:21:34 AM EDT
Interesting. Granted, I would stay put too, but IF I had to leave..... The area maybe country, but I know enough neighbors that we can section off about 200 sq yds or more and make a safe zone. There is enough fire power around the area to to make people think twice if they tried something. And dogs too. He's not called Grizzly for nothing....(sniff)....and Taz would have been a handfull for anyone.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 1:29:55 AM EDT
I will post a pic of my bug out bag later this week.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 4:25:32 AM EDT
As soon as SHTF/TEOTWAWKI begins, you need to outfit your dune buggy properly. 1) Rusty corrugated tin should be tacked on, all over the dune buggy, for armor. 2) You will need to mount some sort of harpoon launcher. 3) Grappling hooks. 4) Skulls.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 5:01:00 AM EDT
Well, [b]kaliburz[/b], you can either go one of two ways - (1) 'stay with the boat' meaning once your neighbors have fled, you and your family are on its own, or (2) 'head for the hills' meaning you and your family have already left the area by the time the goblins arrive (BTW, don't forget to leave a little something behind for a surprise, if you know what I mean). Depending on the type of threat, of course, I'm always in favor of the 'head for the hills' approach, provided that you have prepared the hills for just such a scenario. I have a cabin on about a 1,000 acres of land in the Panhandle (of Texas, of course!), that overlooks the Pease River. It is fully stocked for the emergency arrival of the Huns, any time, under any conditions! There are no weapons or ammo at the cabin, at least not easily retrievable, 'cause when the Huns arrive, they do not wish to have provided anything for any previous arriving uninvited guests! So if anyone's there, it will simply be a matter of asking them to leave, purty-please. Then an overwhelming ground assault, if such guests don't voluntarily leave the environs! And yes, yes, yes, a [b]dune buggy[/b] is an absolute necessity! Mine will go anywhere, even places my Jeep Cherokee 4x4 won't go. I'm presently doing a complete restoration of my dune buggy, which my darling granddaugter Kristin calls 'Granddaddy's crazy dune buggy.' New paint, new electrical, reinforced welding at critical joints, reinforced tubing and straps for engine and transaxle. I'll post some before and after pics, when it's completed. A wise Man (if it's lawful to call Such a Man) once said, concerning flight from danger: [red][b]Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes...And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath.[/b][/red] Matthew 24:16-20 ([i]NKJV[/i]) Why not in winter or on the Sabbath? Because you will not be able to find the things you need for the journey in winter and the stores will also be closed on the Sabbath! In other words, be prepared beforehand! Eric The(SeeWe'veBeenHereBefore,Haven'tWe?)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 5:01:40 AM EDT
...and don't forget about tracer rounds. They're very important.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 5:30:01 AM EDT
Actually, [b]Major-Murphy[/b], tracers are not a bad idea! Especially if you live in a state that permits Class III weapons ownership. (Sorry!) There was an incident that occurred during the Six Day War, in the Golan Heights. The Syrians had a elite force of 500 'rangers' on a hilltop fortress. The Israelis had an elite force of 50 that were assigned to 'contain' the fort. The Israeli commander was not content to simply 'contain' the fort, he wanted to take it out. He had his men load their weapons with nothing but tracers! Not the usual pattern of 3 and 1, or 4 and one, but every round a tracer! The Israelis attacked the fort in the wee hours of the morning, and the surprised Syrians, astonished at the number of tracer rounds being fired, assumed that a much larger force was attacking them and left pell-mell. As usual, the Israelis lost not a single soldier in the encounter that gained them a very valuable piece of real estate. So, yes, a group of bad guys, such as the spike-haired mutants, suddenly encountering a maelstrom of tracer rounds, would definitely clear the area. Eric The(You'reNotGoingToBeWorriedAboutBarrelLife!­)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 5:34:00 AM EDT
...and if you have no tracers, flaming harpoons from your Dune-Buggy mounted launcher will suffice.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 5:42:44 AM EDT
Don't forget to put on your black football pads for armor BEFORE you get into your dune buggy. Av.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 6:45:26 AM EDT
And always remember to grap that very motivated volunteer to lash on to the front of your dune buggy.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 6:57:35 AM EDT
The guns, though, are the main thing. Remember, you are going to be shooting everybody you see outside of your nuclear family. Trust no one, shoot everyone.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 7:06:06 AM EDT
Ohh, yeah, I'll just retire to my mountaintop fortress, with it's supply of heavy artillery, a few hundred orbiting PBW sats, maybe a fusion reactor to keep the hottub cookin, and a couple thousand cases of Oban Scotch to pass the time.. Oh, right.. Too much Ian Fleming again.. Meplat-
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 7:07:54 AM EDT
In generally descending order, the following: Water. Defense. Shelter. Food. Clothing. You are far, far better staying put than bugging out, unless you have a pre-planned and stocked destination. Also assuming that you bug out early enough to get away, and have the fuel on hand to do it. If it is too dangerous to stay, it would be far more dangerous to leave. My only two bugout scenarios would be wildfire or flood, and the wildfire situation would be worth fighting...
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 7:19:16 AM EDT
That's the great thing about where I live. This scenario is a virtual impossibility. For me "Run for the Hills" and "Stay with the Boat" are the same thing. My house is the bugout point for everyone else. If we gotta leave here we are F-U-C-T!
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 7:19:41 AM EDT
What if, when SHTF starts, you find out that your house is dead, smack in the middle of.... [size=4][i]THE FORBIDDEN ZONE[/i][/size=4] Huh? What then, smart-guys?
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 7:31:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/28/2001 7:24:38 AM EDT by Avalon01]
I would eat the spacemen that fall from the sky. As an added bonus, I would have room to drive around in my post-apocalyptic dune buggy with football pads as armor. Av.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 7:39:49 AM EDT
Oh yeah? Well, there ain't a Wal-Mart to be found in [b]THE FORBIDDEN ZONE[/b] so you are dubbly-fuct if you haven't stocked up on guns and ammuntion like I keep telling you. You'll end up getting sodomized to death and eaten because you pissed money away on food and stuff instead of the all-important guns/ammo. Sheeeeeit, I bet you don't even have any glass bottles stockpiled from which to make your molotov cocktails. Wise up before it is too late.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 9:31:00 PM EDT
Do spacemen tast like chicken? Anybody have any good recipes to share?
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 9:54:35 PM EDT
When TSHTF, there are 2 things everyone needs. 1. kilo of good columbian blow. 2. 300 lb black hooker. All else is gravy.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 9:56:16 PM EDT
Heineken beer and aku poke.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 10:15:03 PM EDT
Don't know how many of you are like me, but I'd have to "jack" the biggest Ryder truck they make to haul all my weapons, gear, rations, etc. in order to "bug-out" in a SHTF scenario. What I've got won't fit in the SUV w/the wife & kids so I'm opting to hang tight here at the "Alamo."
Link Posted: 11/29/2001 8:09:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/29/2001 8:02:39 AM EDT by qwezxc12]
Originally Posted By Avalon01: Don't forget to put on your black football pads for armor BEFORE you get into your dune buggy. Av.
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I'm all set [:D] [img]http://wsphotofews.excite.com/004/jk/3x/fq/rq12136.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 11/29/2001 8:56:07 AM EDT
Toilet paper - Think Im kidding ask the Eastern Europeans. Freedom means blue jeans and toilet paper. You can never have enough of either. Luck Alac
Link Posted: 11/29/2001 11:27:47 AM EDT
Don't forget grappling hooks and machetes. You can never have too many of either.
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