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Posted: 11/15/2001 9:10:53 AM EDT
Sent to the Arizona Republic this date. Visit the websites listed at the end for copies of the documents to which this letter refers. ___________________________ Donald L. Cline (Address/Phone redacted) Date: November 14, 2001 Editor: Am I a terrorist if I believe the U.S. Constitution is the only lawful authority the federal government may exercise? Or if I make "numerous references to US Constitution"? Or if I engage in paintball games (paramilitary training)? Or object to the U.N. running my country and violating our laws and my liberty? Or demand probable cause of a crime if I am interrogated by a jack-booted thug? Or if I could be described, believe it or not, as a "Lone Individual"? According to an "information sheet to assist uniformed patrol officers in identifying potential domestic terrorism", I am. The "information sheet" is printed by the "Phoenix FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force" and lists all the above, and more, as people the JTF wants to know about. Sheriff Joe and the FBI can't have people questioning their elitist masters, can they? They can't have people demanding that law enforcement obey the supreme law of the land, can they? We might have the free country we were promised if government obeyed the law! I don't like being lumped in with Skinheads, Nazis, Neo-Nazis, Black Separatists, the KKK, Christian Identity, and White Nationalists, also on the list, just because I believe in the liberties this nation was founded upon and believe government is required to obey the law. I especially don't like it when a piece of Nazi garbage like this is distributed in the law enforcement community by the very government whose only excuse for existence is to protect the rights and liberties of the people. Terrorism is no excuse for fascist tyranny. Donald L. Cline (See http://www.wizardsofaz.com/ar15dotcom/images/Untitled-1.jpg for page 1 of the above document and see http://www.wizardsofaz.com/ar15dotcom/images/Untitled-2.jpg for page 2.)
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 10:00:41 AM EDT
A little help with the photos: Page 1: [img]http://wsphotofews.excite.com/011/Uc/eF/Xu/3935794.jpg[/img] Page 2: [img]http://wsphotofews.excite.com/011/LY/IM/Np/3880493.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 10:07:01 AM EDT
that is craxy spooky, i fit like half that stuff but i live in canda. the cops leave uas alone up here. no one worries about your guns or "mods" you've made. the cops are busy with drugs and single car crashes, they don't have time to bother us. boys it's time for the truth, guess how many cops i've seen in the woods? 1. like 3 years ago, and i go out alot. wanna have some fun, just do it in the woods. cops don't go to the woods, they stay in the city. at least around here. it's great. do whatever you want just look over your shoulder every now and then... OffRoad
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 10:15:46 AM EDT
"Lone individual". Hellooooo, this is everyone. Oh, except siamese twins. I guess they are off the list. "Police the police". Isn't this Internal Affairs? ACLU? This really pisses me off. Not one mention of foreign nationals on expired visas.
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 10:17:21 AM EDT
Gotta luv the entry under "Single Issue Terrorists" ...Lone Individuals So I guess when Barney Fife stops me, and I am driving alone, I am a single issue terrorist?[IMG]http://www.theunholytrinity.org/cracks_smileys/contrib/aahmed/tongue.gif[/IMG] What DO these people use for brains?
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 10:19:17 AM EDT
That flyer doesn't look real. Do we have another internet legend arising? Sounds like the long debunked Janet Reno quotes.
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 10:24:56 AM EDT
ASMS - Terrorists usually have fairly poor spelling. Yours looks OK to me. hence - U R not a terrorist. "If he weighs more than a duck, then he MUST be a witch...." [:D]
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 10:37:57 AM EDT
After living in Scottsdale for many years, this does sound like Sheriff Joe. What he left out was he is going to detain you in his tent camps. [;)]
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 10:40:29 AM EDT
Did you notice the definition of "Domestic Terrorist" on the first page? (You have to turn your head sideways) "Group or individuals operating entirely inside the United States attempting to influence the US government or population to effect political or social change by engaging in criminal activity." Wow! According to this definition, practically every civil rights activist who ever lived is a terrorist (including MLK Jr. and other national figures). What about all those groups who don't like to pay income tax? So they are now terrorists too because they are trying to reform the tax system by refusing to pay? That is messed up! Dilbert
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 11:49:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman: ASMS - Terrorists usually have fairly poor spelling. Yours looks OK to me. hence - U R not a terrorist. [:D]
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damn it then
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 12:42:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/15/2001 12:43:04 PM EDT by AimSmallMissSmall]
Originally Posted By Norm_G: That flyer doesn't look real. Do we have another internet legend arising? Sounds like the long debunked Janet Reno quotes.
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A netizen called the "Jodi Stanul" listed on the document and was told the document was printed by the FBI and was first distributed to local police and deputies two years ago and is still current. Call the numbers on the back of the document and ask them if you wish. You might also ask them when we were taken over by a Nazi Occupation Government, if you wish -- I would. In addition to the letter to the Arizona Republic, I have provided the local weekly paper WEST VALLEY VIEW police reporter with a copy of the flyer and my letter to the AZREP. I hope TSHTF over this -- if we don't stop this crap now, AND Ashcroft's arbitrary suspension of the attorney-client privilege, et seq., in a year we're going to be indistinguishable from the Third Reich.
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 2:33:25 PM EDT
i guess in order to not be a "terrorist" you have to be a combination of the following: 1. a siamese twin 2. can only think in a collective manner 3. hate guns 4. hate freedom 5. beleive there is no G-d 6. Love to pay high taxes 7. have no respect for the rule of law, but still follow laws to a tee. beware the militia groups who are full of lone individuals. there just bible-thumping kooks who think that the constitution is the law of the land. dont they know that the UN bill of human rights is superior? that freedom is only a privaledge? very scary...
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 3:01:21 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 6:05:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By kpel308: The flyer was made up by the local FBI office, and Sheriff Arpaio's office was NOT consulted. This was from a couple of years ago, and was not meant for distribution to the general public (NO SHIT!). The Maricopa Co. prosecutor, and Sheriff Arpaio got on the ball right away and said, "NO THANKS" to this stuff. It does bother me that referring to the Constitution can have you classified as a terrorist in the eyes of our government, or at least its enforcement body. You know, the same ones that think secret trials and detention without charge are GOOD things.
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Don't believe everything they tell you. Joe Arpaio was a DEA agent for 30 years before he was elected Sheriff; if he said no thanks to this stuff it is because someone had him where it hurts. And our current State Attorney-General, former U.S. Attorney Janet Napolitano, thinks it is a great idea.
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 6:15:46 PM EDT
See topic 69161....pat
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 7:00:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By paterpk: See topic 69161....pat
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Do you really think our government has our best interests at heart? If you do, and you spend 27 years studying why things are wrong in America, you will be forced to conclude eventually that not only does our government -- or more correctly, the handlers of our government -- not have our best interests at heart, the purpose of practically every single major man-made disastrous event in this country in the last 150 years has been for the singular purpose of restoring the feudal government we kicked out when we won the American Revolution. A paper introduced at the 1949 Bilderberger meeting announced that the Fleet Street financial dynasties that had skimmed the economy of the world for the last 500 years prior to our American Revolution had regained economic control of their colonies in 1913, and expected to regain political control in the year 2000. They are a little behind schedule, primarily due to their impetuousness in ramming through the Brady bill too soon, and thus causing an extra ten million firearms to enter circulation. Now, if you think this is all a bunch of hooey, and will entertain a contrarian view, I will be happy to list the thousand or so cold-blooded assassinations of Americans by their own government for political reasons that have taken place in the last oh, forty years or so. The list will be nowhere near complete, but it does include an Iowa farmer by the name of Arthur Kirk, a South Dakota rabble rouser by the name of Gordon Kahl and the Sheriff who wanted to talk him out peacefully, a 14-year-old boy by the name of Randy Weaver and his mother Vicki, armed only with her infant daughter, 80 or so Branch Davidians (whose second in command, Paul G. Fatta, Jr. had a license for the fully-automatic weapons they DIDN'T have), the victims of TWA800, shot down by a Stinger which was stolen from the Army and was offered by an agent provocateur to the New Hampshire Militia (who turned it down), right up to the Oklahoma City bombing in which seven basement stanchions were sheared off by HE satchel charges, when McVeigh's truck bomb has been proven to have been incapable of doing more than busting out the windows of that steel-reinforced concrete building. There are two facts you need to remember as you watch political events unfold in this world: 1) Nothing ever happens in politics that isn't planned, (attributed to Franklin Delano Roosevelt), and 2) if there is any possible way a regular routine operation of government (such as voting, for example) can be corrupted, it WILL be corrupted: Count on it; it is a fait accompli. (Attributed to me after 27 years of keeping track of government and its dominant shadow[s].) And btw, I support very strongly our men and women in uniform. I just hate to see them wasted as cannon fodder for political expediency and corruption.
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 7:18:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AimSmallMissSmall:
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even though people will call you a conspiracy kook, there is a good deal of truth to your above post. a socialist professor named Carrol Quigley wrote a book called TRAGEDY AND HOPE. you should check the book out if you can find a copy. im not lending mine [:)] this book details the works of the international banking elite. it pains me to see a provable conspiracy thrown in with the "its the jews" or the "its the freemasons" crowd. more an issue of money and big egos than anything else. if anybody brings you to task on your above post, i'll do my best to back you up. pro-government, anti-corruption lib
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 7:53:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By libertarian:
Originally Posted By AimSmallMissSmall:
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even though people will call you a conspiracy kook, there is a good deal of truth to your above post. a socialist professor named Carrol Quigley wrote a book called TRAGEDY AND HOPE. you should check the book out if you can find a copy. im not lending mine [:)] this book details the works of the international banking elite.
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Yes, and Clinton considered him his "mentor".
it pains me to see a provable conspiracy thrown in with the "its the jews" or the "its the freemasons" crowd. more an issue of money and big egos than anything else.
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Little egos that have to throw their weight around to feel big. You are absolutely correct: Not only is racial and/or cultural bigotry a waste of time (besides being morally wrong), but arguing about the relative merits -- and even the identifying features -- of various political ideologies is a waste of time: They are all a method of achieving feudalism, every single one. Even capitalism, unrestrained, is a form of feudalism: If the rights of the individual are not respected, then capitalism is no better than any of the rest. It is nothing but a means of achieving power over people for which the lord and master is unaccountable to those whom he governs.
if anybody brings you to task on your above post, i'll do my best to back you up.
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Thanks. If the sheeple don't wake up, and damned fast, we are going to be indistinguishable from the Third Reich within a year.
pro-government, anti-corruption lib
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Link Posted: 11/15/2001 9:18:09 PM EDT
I'm amazed at the "super patriot" comment...W.T.H.???? America is being ripped apart from within...I once heard someone say as communist countries move more towards democracy...Democracies would move more towards communism...just a thought…seems like we have started down the path…hope we are able to stop the forward motion:(
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 9:37:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AimSmallMissSmall: Thanks. If the sheeple don't wake up, and damned fast, we are going to be indistinguishable from the Third Reich within a year.
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though i can notice our cultural change i dont think we will be indistinguishable from the Third Reich within a "year"! America is a tough country. it will take some more decades before it falls that far IMHO. i warn people to not get ther information from the unreliable sources that promote disinformation concerning this issue. there are those anti-zion cats (Zionist Occupied Government) and the New Age alien conspiracy stuff, particularly by David Icke. David Icke is a former soccer player from britain who believes that the whole human race is descendant from extraterrestials. he goes on about different alien factions who oppose each other. he says that both George Bush and Bill Clinton are really aliens. lots of information in his books about ancient civilizations and the "insiders" such as the Bildebergers. seems to take about 10-15% truth and mix it with SCI-FI. would make a cool movie, but this dude passes it off as fact. if you want to read some true loony crap, check out his web site under a name search. sadly i read a leftist article that pegs David Icke as a source for us Right-wing hate groups. would be funny if it were'nt a colledge professor. careful what you read, lib
Link Posted: 11/16/2001 4:58:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Tonys68l36: I'm amazed at the "super patriot" comment...W.T.H.????
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I have a question for you: Would you consider the founding fathers of our nation to be "Super" Patriots? Or just patriots? Or what? Is being a "Super" patriot a bad thing? I haven't figured out where you are coming from with that remark, or even what "comment" you are talking about.
America is being ripped apart from within...I once heard someone say as communist countries move more towards democracy...Democracies would move more towards communism...just a thought…seems like we have started down the path…hope we are able to stop the forward motion:(
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What you once heard someone say is disinformation designed to convince you that we are supposed to have a democracy in this country and that democracy is a good thing. It is not. Our founding fathers were adamantly opposed to democracy as having "ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths." (Federalist Papers No. 10, Madison). We are supposed to have a constitutional republic with democratic choice of representation. Under our system, the democratic majority has no authority to deprive anyone of their natural rights not delegated to government as constitutional powers. The closer we get to "democracy" -- and it is fully upon us already -- the closer we get to the violent death of our nation and the principles of liberty upon which it is founded.
Link Posted: 11/16/2001 5:12:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By libertarian:
Originally Posted By AimSmallMissSmall: Thanks. If the sheeple don't wake up, and damned fast, we are going to be indistinguishable from the Third Reich within a year.
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though i can notice our cultural change i dont think we will be indistinguishable from the Third Reich within a "year"! America is a tough country. it will take some more decades before it falls that far IMHO.
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We shall see. I stand by my prediction. We already have to waive every fundamental right we have to get on an airplane in this country. We have already lost our fourth amendment right to be secure in our persons, papers, houses, and effects if some government jack-booted twerp thinks government has a compelling interest in rummaging through our belongings -- especially in our cars. We have already lost the right to property with the RICO Act, where if you have a large amount of cash on you it is presumed to be drug proceeds and may be confiscated and it takes an act of Congress to get even half of it back. I could go on for three pages, but the upshot of it is that the only thing missing from a full comparison of this country to the Third Reich is a clearly identifiable scapegoat faction -- like the Jews in Hitler's Germany -- for government to take out its hatred on.
i warn people to not get ther information from the unreliable sources that promote disinformation concerning this issue. there are those anti-zion cats (Zionist Occupied Government) and the New Age alien conspiracy stuff, particularly by David Icke. David Icke is a former soccer player from britain who believes that the whole human race is descendant from extraterrestials. he goes on about different alien factions who oppose each other. he says that both George Bush and Bill Clinton are really aliens. lots of information in his books about ancient civilizations and the "insiders" such as the Bildebergers. seems to take about 10-15% truth and mix it with SCI-FI. would make a cool movie, but this dude passes it off as fact. if you want to read some true loony crap, check out his web site under a name search. sadly i read a leftist article that pegs David Icke as a source for us Right-wing hate groups. would be funny if it were'nt a colledge professor.
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David Icke illustrates the communist doctrine that "truth is whatever advances the agenda" and that there is more than one way to discredit the real truth to advance the agenda.
careful what you read, lib
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Read whatever you want. Be careful what you believe. BTW, for further information on the FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force, read Angel Shamaya's investigation of it at http://keepandbeararms.com/newsarchives/XcNewsPlus.asp?cmd=view&articleid=2126 and note that while Terry Chapman opposes the whole thing, Sheriff Joe Arpaio is silent on the matter.
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