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AR15.COM
2/9/2008 11:37:45 AM EDT
I am thinking about sending my complete rifle off for a water printing camo job- where they dip the whole rifle in a tand that has a film floating on the surface. Anyway, one place said I don't have to have a FFL ship it to them and they don't need to have a FFL either to "paint" it or to ship it back directly to me.

One FFL guy I have used said that is wrong. I'm not transfering it, and it is not going to a licensed gunsmith?!?! Does anyone have the right answer here?


Thanks,

Edhttp://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w181/jonrw/97lf.jpg
2/9/2008 11:03:51 AM EDT
[#1]
The finisher would need an FFL as far as what I have learned from the companies I've dealt with.

ADD/ Ruger* When you care enough to spend the very least.
2/9/2008 11:06:28 AM EDT
[#2]
If the finisher is out of state and does not have an FFL you are out of luck as far as shipping it.  You might be able to take it there in person, have it finished while you wait and then transport it back.
2/9/2008 11:23:02 AM EDT
[#3]
An FFL is only needed to do a transfer of a firearm. If you already own the firearm and are sending to get work done then you can send it via UPS or FedEx overnight. (it has to be sent overnight) The person doing the work can then send it back to you via the same means directly to your front door. For instance if I buy a Sig and something goes wrong with the slide I can send the gun back to them as long as I overnight it, they can then send it directly back to me as long as the serial number doesn't change on the firearm.


PS IANAL so check this out for yourself. But this is the way I have interpreted the law and I have sent firearms back and forth this way.
2/9/2008 11:30:43 AM EDT
[#4]
You can only send it to SIG because they're a manufacturer. You can only ship it to a manufacturer, or someone with an FFL. If you ship it to Billy Joe Bob's Paint & Tackle Shop who does not have an FFL... you're wrong.


Original Poster- You do not need to have an FFL to ship it to someone for work. However, the person receiving the firearm doing the work does have to have one. When they're finished working on it they can ship it straight back to you - even though you don't have an FFL. It's confusing, but not really.
2/9/2008 11:33:54 AM EDT
[#5]
Any work that is to be performed must be done by an FFL holder.  You do not need to ship "through" an FFL if you are the owner and are only sending it to have work done.

2/9/2008 1:11:12 PM EDT
[#6]
Leo6223

height=8
Any work that is to be performed must be done by an FFL holder. You do not need to ship "through" an FFL if you are the owner and are only sending it to have work done.


Does this mean "ANY" work even if it is not mechanical? We're talking a paint job here. And more curious about how do you explain to the FFL people that you are applying to get a FFL but only plan on doing cosmetic work on firearms- no sales, no trades, no transfers, no gunsmithing...

height=8
ADD/ Ruger* When you care enough to spend the very least.
 tsk, tsk M4builder, is that anyway to play nice with others?

All comments are appreciated; but does anyone have the definitive answer? I am sending, not transfering, a rifle, not CR eligible, for paint to a third party, not amanufacurer or FFL holder. CAN I only ship it to an FFL? AND can they return it to my doorstep, not being a FFL holder myself?

More thanks,

Ed
2/9/2008 1:22:06 PM EDT
[#7]
Sorry, I replied to the wrong forum linkh.gif
2/9/2008 1:50:14 PM EDT
[#8]
Here is where most of your answers can be found:

www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/index.htm

Funny, people NEVER think to just ask the BATFE.  It IS their job, you know?

As a quick wrapup:

Any business which intends to take in Firearms for work, on an overnight basis, must have an FFL.  I would be SHOCKED if the water transfer folks don't have one, given the volume of firearms work they have been doing in the last few years.  Businesses which do NOT take the firearm overnight, e.g. you walk in, they install your sights, and you walk back out, do not necessarily need an FFL.  There are more complications, but that is the gist of the rules.  And, yes, you can apply for an FFL as just a Gunsmith, or Weapon Painter, whatever.  There used to be a separate FFL for them, but now they are treated just like retail gun shops for licensing purposes.  Basically, if you (as an FFL) take in a Firearm and keep it overnight, it MUST be logged into your Bound Book and then logged back out again when it is returned to the owner.  So, any firearm that goes to a Gunsmith and stays overnight, will be PERMANENTLY recorded in the Gunsmith's FFL records.  Just a thought.

You, as a non-FFL, may only ship Interstate to an FFL (all Manufacturer's are FFLs), except for limited circumstances (such as shipping to yourself) that are not applicable in this discussion.  The FFL may ship the firearm DIRECTLY back to you, in the event that it originally came from you to them.  There are other restrictions and circumstances around the return issue, so please check carefully.  Most FFLs who take in work are used to the rules around returning firearms.

Unless you have a STATE LAW that says otherwise, you may ship the firearm directly to the Out-of-State FFL.  You do not need to ship FROM an FFL in your State.  As always, check State Laws that might further restrict this.

You may ship to anyone WITHIN your State that is legal to possess the weapon.  Getting a carrier to let you do it is another story.  Again, check State Laws for further restrictions.

Long guns may be Mailed through the USPS to an FFL, but Handguns must go by a different common carrier, e.g. FedEx or UPS.

Did that cover it?

FluxPrism
2/9/2008 1:58:49 PM EDT
[#9]
As has already been stated, you can ship to an FFL only.  You can't ship a firearm to someone unless they have an FFL.  You don't need one to ship.  

ETA:  FluxPrism posted the complete answer.
2/9/2008 2:25:13 PM EDT
[#10]
Repair of modification can be sent by the owner to the company doing the work via FedEx, UPS or any delivery service other than the USPS.
2/9/2008 2:35:22 PM EDT
[#11]
I am a certified DuraCoat Refinisher and I am required by law to have an FFL to legally recieve/possess a customer's firearm.  Once I've completed the job, I send it directly back to the individual whom I received it from.  This is fact.  
2/9/2008 2:44:12 PM EDT
[#12]

Quoted:
I am a certified DuraCoat Refinisher and I am required by law to have an FFL to legally recieve/possess a customer's firearm.  Once I've completed the job, I send it directly back to the individual whom I received it from.  This is fact.  


Makes sense.  ATF requires gunsmiths to have an FFL and I'm sure they consider work on guns, of any sort, to be gunsmithing.

You don't need an FFL to send or receive a gun from/to service, but the refinisher should have one.
2/9/2008 2:50:29 PM EDT
[#13]
So what if you sent just an upper, stock, buffer tube and handgrip and kept the lower rec. with you. Since the lower is the "firearm" and the only serial numbered part, can work be performed on the other parts without an FFL's involvement?
2/9/2008 2:55:22 PM EDT
[#14]
For God's sake, prevent paperwork.  Go to someone local or learn to do it yourself.
2/9/2008 2:59:31 PM EDT
[#15]
height=8
Quoted:
So what if you sent just an upper, stock, buffer tube and handgrip and kept the lower rec. with you. Since the lower is the "firearm" and the only serial numbered part, can work be performed on the other parts without an FFL's involvement?


yes...