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4/25/2017 7:42:44 PM
Posted: 3/3/2001 9:59:37 PM EDT
http://www.heraldnet.com/Stories/01/3/3/13513084.cfm Police seize Jewish man's arsenal and Nazi gear Numerous charges filed against suspect in shooting incident The New York Times NEW YORK - Police Thursday seized a small arsenal of high-powered weapons and Nazi memorabilia from a Brooklyn man after he was found in a park Wednesday firing a pistol at a picture of his girlfriend's mother, the authorities said. An off-duty police detective jogging Wednesday afternoon in Marine Park in Gerritsen Beach, Brooklyn, heard the gunshots and confronted the man, Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik said Thursday. The unarmed detective, Michael Danchuk, tried unsuccessfully to disarm the man, then ran out of the park and called 911 from a nearby home, Kerik said. A short time later, police officers spotted the man, Michael Kneitel, 38, leaving the park and arrested him. A search of the man's Borough Park home and of a storage locker in Bay Ridge turned up five rifles, 15 semiautomatic pistols and thousands of rounds of ammunition, the police said. The police also found an SS uniform and a Nazi flag. Also seized were several snapshots of Kneitel, who is Jewish, in a uniform with "Der Fuehrer" stitched on the sleeve and a ceremonial dagger slung from his belt. Police officers who searched his home also found snapshots of Kneitel's 6-month-old daughter with the SS uniform draped over her, Kerik said. In one, the baby's finger was placed on the trigger of a pistol. Kneitel was charged with weapons possession, endangering the welfare of a child and resisting arrest.
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 10:04:30 PM EDT
Kneitel was charged with weapons possession, endangering the welfare of a child and resisting arrest.
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Good. I would hope so. It's very rare to find a Jewish Nazi, I wonder what kinds of tests they'll run on this guy.
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 10:08:46 PM EDT
Very brassiere! NO SLACK!
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 10:10:56 PM EDT
Hopefully, lots and lots of tests. He has some serious self esteem issues!
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 10:34:34 PM EDT
Shooting at a picture of his girlfriends mama. This has got to be a joke. Jogging Policeman with no gun. Another joke. Searched his apartment. Is that legal? What gives the police and Courts power to search the apartment?
Link Posted: 3/4/2001 12:14:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By HANGFIRE: Searched his apartment. Is that legal? What gives the police and Courts power to search the apartment?
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uhh...public craziness maybe?
Link Posted: 3/4/2001 9:10:21 AM EDT
Hangfire, government search and seizure is regulated by the 4th Amendment of the constitution. There are two clauses contained in the 4th Amend. The probable cause clause and the warrant clause. The warrant clause has been interpreted as being dominant. In order for Police to search the home of a citizen they must first have probably cause. Probable cause can be abtained in many ways and I would think that it wouldnt be too hard to get in this situation. Once there is probable cause, the police fill out an avidavit and submit it to a magistrate who then decides based on the evidence whether or not there is enough probable cause to issue a warrant. Once the cops have their warrant, they are free to search the premises. This explaination was very brief I know, but if you want more info. let me know...
Link Posted: 3/4/2001 10:05:18 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/4/2001 12:04:00 PM EDT
Beer Slayer... I would assume that a magistrate would be inclined to make his judgment in full compliance with the law. If he did not, it would be extremely easy for the defendant's counsel to prove that the magistrate used poor judgment in issuing the warrant. If it is clear that the magistrate issued an illegitimate warrant, then all illegally seized items from the search will be excluded from trial. This would be a major, and in many instances, a fatal blow to the case of the prosecution.
Link Posted: 3/4/2001 12:09:44 PM EDT
In NY when you are facing "Gun charges" you have no rights at all, and you are portrayed as a crazy gun nut to the public opinion, that means that police will search and seize, as they are pleased, and nobody (besides your family) will support you. NYC has the toughest gun control in the whole union. Karlozg
Link Posted: 3/4/2001 12:31:09 PM EDT
Well gee this aint exactly something about everyday.
Link Posted: 3/4/2001 12:41:11 PM EDT
You do not need probable cause for a search warrant, you need reasonable suspicion. The difference between the two is that probable cause is what police need for a warrant for an arrest; reasonable suspicion is what they need for a search warrant. PC a stricter standard than RS, meaning that evidence that would not get officers a warrant for arrest might get them a search warrant. Kyle
Link Posted: 3/4/2001 1:14:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/4/2001 1:26:41 PM EDT by saleen]
Searches may only be conducted if supported by probable cause. Perhaps in the liberal utopia of New York City a search may only be conducted probably 'cause the officer wants to. Another reason I have no plans of ever visiting that shithole. Saleen
Link Posted: 3/4/2001 1:15:28 PM EDT
Searches may only be conducted if supported by probable cause. Perhaps in the liberal utopia of New York City a search may only be conducted probably 'cause the officer wants to. Another reason I have no plans of ever visiting that shithole. Saleen
Link Posted: 3/4/2001 1:35:52 PM EDT
An off-duty police detective jogging Wednesday afternoon in Marine Park in Gerritsen Beach, Brooklyn, heard the gunshots and confronted the man, Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik said Thursday. The unarmed detective, Michael Danchuk, tried unsuccessfully to disarm the man, then ran out of the park and called 911 from a nearby home, Kerik said
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That's a really good way to wind up dead. If I were this guy's mother I'd be pissed
Link Posted: 3/4/2001 1:37:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/4/2001 1:55:57 PM EDT
Wiggins... please explain your opinion on reasonable suspicion required for searches. I disagree with you. The standard you might be thinking of is the Reasonable Expectation of Privacy standard. This test was used to determine whether or not government action rose to the level of a search. Or perhaps you were speaking of a specific state's procedure. The Warrant clause of the 4th Amendment clearly states that "no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause..." It is well established today that searches conducted without a warrant are presumed to be unreasonable. "Searches conducted outside the judicial process, without prior approval by judge or magistrate are per se unreasonable under the 4th Amendment..." This is quoted from Katz v. U.S. which I am sure you know of well...(assuming that you have legal experience with 4th Amendment issues). therefore, in order to get a warrant under the 4th amendment... it seems clear that "probable cause" is required. I feel that the reason we as citizens are losing our protection against unreasonable search and seizures is not because of a less scrutinizing standard required to obtain a warrant, but rather because the supreme court has chosen to define a "search" differently then we might see fit. Now, government activity that we would traditionally consider a search, no longer is... and thus, is not protected by the fourth Amendment...
Link Posted: 3/4/2001 2:13:16 PM EDT
hmmm.. IMHO just becuase you are 'jewish' in this life does not mean you were jewish in another. (that's if you believe in the possibilty of reincarnation) also note that the ss's "dirty little secret" was kept from most of the german public until after the war -aside from those high up in the ss and the murderous einsatzgruppen. the bulk of the army, waffen ss, kriegsmarine and luftwaffe units were unaware of the treachery being commited agaist their them by their own leaders. the german public were shown "happy jews" in "nice kz's" by gobel's propaganda mill. and remember kz's had been around since the early 30's and the first internees DID come back from those... (the u.s. did the same crime by putting americans who looked japanese into kz's and siezed all their land and property which was not returned to them. the u.s. did not 'gas' the prisoners only took everything they owned and treated them poorly) allied command made it a point NOT to bomb the kz's even though the knew of the situation (and earlier in the war refused jewish refugees) and also made it a point of P.R. to show the films to the german pow's after the war. most of them thought it was a hoax for quite some time. so in a sense the german people were the 'patsies' of the ss/nsadp and the allies... we all know history is re-written by the victors to suit their perspective. and a little known fact is that there were half jewish /prussian-german officers in the high command that were given 'exemption' from being sent to the kz's - providing that they met certain criteria - and besides - wasn't der fehrer said to be half jewish too....????? so to most people nazi's and jews are only thought of one way - yet if one digs just a little below the surface - they were intimately intertwined in a way most cannot fathom.... other than that - this dude sounds like he had some issues..... steve
Link Posted: 3/4/2001 2:33:11 PM EDT
Steve... what exactly are you trying to say? You mean to tell me that every Jew in German Society just upped and vanished... their property and belongings seized in plain sight... and the German population thought nothing of it? Have you heard of a place called Dachau? It was a concentration camp very close to Munich. Thousands of Jews were killed there. It wasn't a death camp, but they were starved, worked and tortured to death nonetheless... People in Munich smelled the death. That many rotting corpses, along with the nazi practice of burning the bodies released an oder into the air that not even the dumbist or even lubadomized germans could not notice...ignore, yes... be ignorant of...no... As far as your Teutonic Knights, the Waffen SS and the Kriegsmarine being innocent, don't be so sure. I too once believed that, I was wrong. Of course not every German soldier was a nazi or a jew hater, in fact I would say many werent, but clearing the way for the Einsatzgruppen do do their dirty work doesnt alleviate them of any burden. Furthermore, they were at the front lines and they knew damn well what was happening. Also don't forget that by 1943, Himmler had already issued new orders to the Waffen SS that would involve them in the "Final Solution" and stain their image forever...
Link Posted: 3/4/2001 3:38:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/4/2001 3:52:55 PM EDT by SteyrAUG]
Originally Posted By steve m: of the ss/nsadp steve
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Not to nitpik but it was the NSDAP, probably just a typo but it detracts from such a knowledgable post. And to Scipio; let's not overlook the involvement of groups like the French division of the Waffen SS, The Pope, etc. In addition Hitler based his immigration policies on that of the prewar US. Alot of people contributed directly or indirectly on both sides.
Link Posted: 3/4/2001 3:42:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Scipio: Hangfire, government search and seizure is regulated by the 4th Amendment of the constitution.
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Ha ha ha!...good one!
Link Posted: 3/4/2001 4:57:36 PM EDT
Either way.......I think he is very confused :)
Link Posted: 3/5/2001 9:50:02 AM EDT
scipio - thanks for the info on dachau - did not know this angle - but remember also that it was not a free society - but one of terror and oppression for most. open speech was prohibited and any opposition to the government was crushed by the ever suspicious gestapo. even if the peoples of munchen were aware - who could they tell? how could they stop it? i think my post was to present for some alternative views on 1: the possibilty of reincarnation or "possession" / influence by past 'energies' - my example would be the civil war "reinactors" - there are way to many guys who are way into this and actually "live it" for it to be a hobby (any reinactors feel free to jump in on this one) 2: the allies were not innocent when it came to the genocide 3: the german people - for the most part were used by all parties at hand. they for the most part and warm and friendly BUT obedient culture who are also meticulous in their actions - not unlike the japanese.... i did leave out one section of my 1st post and that was of the actions on the eastern front - and the anti-partisan operations. (but then again did anything happen there that did not occurr with 'us' in vietnam? not all soldiers were at mai lai, not all were so called 'baby killers' most were 'average guys' trying to do their best in horrible coditions to help their friends and make it home - a hero in my book) but then again - with the brutality seen on the 'ostfront' - who could say anything to anyone 'back home' - how would anyone know? talk to a neighbor or a friend and you could be off to a kz yourself. anyway - it was a terrible time for most and even worse for others - but we must remember what happened so as not to blunder down the same path once more AND to realize the whole story - not just what we are spoon fed - lastly our strength as a society lies in our togetherness, with our differences being a plus. steve
Link Posted: 3/5/2001 9:59:01 AM EDT
just a foot note to my above post - the reference of the experience of the soldier in vietnam vs. the eastern front was concerning the average 'gi' there as well - not the einsatzgruppen or the later waffen ss actions. steve
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