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AR15.COM
11/29/2007 7:04:25 AM EDT
Is it a crime or improper to misuse the NICS system for purposes other than verifying that a person is legal to own firearms?

That is, what if an employer who was also a closet FFL used NICS to do background checks on his potential hires.  Is this a crime??
11/29/2007 7:07:21 AM EDT
[#1]


Dont know how well that would work though.... NICS doesnt actually TELL the person inquiring what the person they are inquiring on did or didnt do. It is just a yes/no/delay answer as far as Ive ever got.

at $7.50 a pop... ouch... that could get spendy.
11/29/2007 7:07:39 AM EDT
[#2]
WOW totaly uncool!

ETA: the guy should be kicked in the taco for that!
11/29/2007 7:09:34 AM EDT
[#3]

Quoted:


Dont know how well that would work though.... NICS doesnt actually TELL the person inquiring what the person they are inquiring on did or didnt do. It is just a yes/no/delay answer as far as Ive ever got.

at $7.50 a pop... ouch... that could get spendy.



Huh?  I didn't know they charged for that....



-K
11/29/2007 7:10:42 AM EDT
[#4]
What I had heard is that they were only interested in the person's felony record on a yes or no basis and were running them through as an alternative to hiring a background checking firm.
11/29/2007 7:11:56 AM EDT
[#5]
If its anything like the NCIC/CJIS system that is used to run registrations and DLs for law enforcement, then ANY use beyond official business is misuse and subject to prosecution.

ETA: spelling
11/29/2007 7:14:11 AM EDT
[#6]
Bad thing is ... a lot of things can make a 'No'. Domestic crimes, mental health issues and things like that... things that arent felonies.

Not sure that they would run a check without having some type of firearm transaction going on.

11/29/2007 7:14:43 AM EDT
[#7]
I would guess yes because a felon knows he is not allowed to buy a gun. What that FFL is doing if the guy they are checking on is a felon is basically lying to the gov. and saying he just tried to buy a gun. NOT FUCKING COOL.
11/29/2007 7:14:56 AM EDT
[#8]
Yes, that is a blatant misuse of NICS.

28 CFR Part 25.6
FFLs may intiate a NICS background check only in connection with a proposed firearm transfer as required by the Brady Act. FFLs are strictly prohibited from intiating a NICs background check for any other purpose.

28 CFR Part 25.11

(a) State or local agencies, FFLs, or invididuals violating this subpart A shall be subject to a fine not to exceed $10,000 and subject to cancellation of NICS inquiry previleges.

-(b) Misuse or unauthorized access includes, but is not limited to, the following:

-(2) state or locacal agencies, FFLs, or individuals purposefully using the system to perform a check for unauthorized purposed...
11/29/2007 7:16:30 AM EDT
[#9]
Net Detective at $29 for three years seems like a cheaper alternative, regardless of legal issues.
11/29/2007 7:16:36 AM EDT
[#10]

Quoted:

Quoted:


Dont know how well that would work though.... NICS doesnt actually TELL the person inquiring what the person they are inquiring on did or didnt do. It is just a yes/no/delay answer as far as Ive ever got.

at $7.50 a pop... ouch... that could get spendy.



Huh?  I didn't know they charged for that....



-K


NICS is free.
11/29/2007 7:19:01 AM EDT
[#11]
IMO an employer who needs to do background checks on potential hires really needs more info than NICS has available.  In a retail establishment that handles a lot of cash I'd be concerned not just with a criminal record, but also credit history.  A recent BK would be a disqualifier, and that info isn't in NICS.
11/29/2007 7:19:06 AM EDT
[#12]

Quoted:
Yes, that is a blatant misuse of NICS.

28 CFR Part 25.6
FFLs may intiate a NICS background check only in connection with a proposed firearm transfer as required by the Brady Act. FFLs are strictly prohibited  for any other purpose.

28 CFR Part 25.11

(a) State or local agencies, FFLs, or invididuals violating this subpart A shall be subject to a fine not to exceed $10,000 and subject to cancellation of NICS inquiry previleges.

-(b) Misuse or unauthorized access includes, but is not limited to, the following:

-(2) state or locacal agencies, FFLs, or individuals purposefully using the system to perform a check for unauthorized purposed...


And there's your definitive answer. If he wants to do that, he needs to sell them a gun first.
11/29/2007 7:19:47 AM EDT
[#13]
Each transaction is assigned a number.

An FFL is required to keep all 4473's.

During an audit, a bunch of forms without ...


  • a firearm


  • its corresponding serial number


  • a purchaser signature authorizing the call


...would definitely raise some questions.

Or, a bunch of "missing" 4473's would cause trouble, too.


I don't know if they would be prosecuted, but I would be willing to bet they will lose their FFL.
11/29/2007 7:23:23 AM EDT
[#14]
Thanks guys, this answered what I needed to know.
11/29/2007 7:24:11 AM EDT
[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:


Dont know how well that would work though.... NICS doesnt actually TELL the person inquiring what the person they are inquiring on did or didnt do. It is just a yes/no/delay answer as far as Ive ever got.

at $7.50 a pop... ouch... that could get spendy.



Huh?  I didn't know they charged for that....



-K


NICS is free.


Heh, you dont live in UT then.
11/29/2007 7:25:32 AM EDT
[#16]

Quoted:
Thanks guys, this answered what I needed to know.


So are you going to stop doing it now?
11/29/2007 7:27:22 AM EDT
[#17]
It probably could be charged as an identity theft crime, since the person's SS#, address and other information are being used without permission.  Plus, it would be fraud, since when you call in a NICS check, you're asked what kind of firearm the person is buying.  You'd be lying to the person performing the check.
11/29/2007 7:29:28 AM EDT
[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Thanks guys, this answered what I needed to know.


So are you going to stop doing it now?


I have no access to the system.  We were dealing with someone who claimed to have access to a system similar to this.  Our firm does pre employment background checking and something sounded fishy.
11/29/2007 7:31:49 AM EDT
[#19]

Quoted:

....

improper to misuse the NICS system

....




You do have a valid reason to be concern, much like the misuse of social security numbers.

There are systems in place to record the access to them, everyone regardless of the level of access is recorded in a log.

The only one with unfettered access would be the guy who made the program.

Have a good day.

:}

11/29/2007 8:07:54 AM EDT
[#20]
Oh we are kidding ourselves.  You dont think that Homeland security, the FBI, and NSA do not have instant access to NCIS?  I am sure that every smoke pole that you have ever legally purchased is listed somewhere for easy access.  Is it accurate and up to date?  Well that is probably another story.  Face reality.  We live in a fish bowl.