Posted: 9/2/2007 8:03:13 PM EDT
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Ok, I've read multiple internet commando stories of fellas getting arrested for not providing identification/driver's licenses when requested by law enforcement... and being in the legal right for not doing so. And I'm down with that... but what about .MIL? i'm pretty sure millitary personel must identify themselves as such when confronted by the police... What you say? |
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Why shouldn't they? If a policeman asks someone (in civilian garb) for ID, they are obliged LEGALLY to provide it. So if an out-of-state .mil person shows his home state ID AND his military ID*, he's home free. *IIRC he/she is required to carry military ID as long as he/she is actively serving. |
| Military peronnel are not required to show their military ID to civ. LEOs, or identify themselves as military. You are required to keep their ID on you at all times when on active duty. They are, however, required to identify themselves, and surrender their military ID at the request of MPs/MAs. Your military ID does not belong to the member anyway, it is property of the US government. Says so right on the back. |
FWIW; Drivers license in most states is the property of the state. |
I've searched and haven't found it... for civilians I think this applies:
But I recal being told somewhere along the lines, and upon request for ID from a LEO a millitary personel is required to identify themselves as such... but I can't find it anywhere. |
IIRC there's something about this in FL law... just a sec. ETA: I can't find anything right now but I thought there was a thread about this not long ago. |
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From Wiki Stop and Identify statutes. link FL's law
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Then behave yourself and don't get in trouble.  All kidding aside, in Texas, the officer can detain you until he is able to identify you, if you are a suspect in a crime. |
No, you are not breaking any law by not having your wallet with you. But, if, for instance, the police received a call that there was a guy peeking in people's windows at night and they were patrolling the neighborhood looking for the guy, and came upon you, they would ask for ID. If you say, "I don't have any", they will detain you until they can ascertain who you are. I know, because I did exactly that, once.  |
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I would guess failing to identify yourself is not quite the same as refusing to provide an ID card. That said... here where I live I typically *have* to provide ID upon demand. I carry a pistol, AT ALL TIMES, and the law states I MUST surrender my License to Carry Handgun to law enforcement upon demand. No two ways about it. |
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There might be a military charge for failure to provide ID to a civilian authority. Thats what shore patrol would charge sailors with who refused to provide ID to police when asked. Here is the VA Beach City code addressing the issue. Sec. 23-7.1. Providing identification to police officer. It shall be unlawful and a Class 1 misdemeanor for any person at a public place or place open to the public to refuse to identify himself by name and address at the request of a uniformed police officer or of a properly identified police officer not in uniform, or to provide false information in response to such a request, if the surrounding circumstances are such as to indicate to a reasonable man that the public safety requires such identification. What this means, is the officer has to have a reason to ask, such as investigating a crime. I just can't walk up and demand you identify yourself without a good reason. |
I've got to admit, if a cop asks for an ID, I give them my military ID - they normally leave me alone after that. Matt |
Yeah, just let 'em search your car too on a whim, I mean, damn. You've got nothing to hide, right? JUST FUCKING CONFORM AND SUBMIT ALREADY DAMN IT! |
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§ 38.02. FAILURE TO IDENTIFY. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally refuses to give his name, residence address, or date of birth to a peace officer who has lawfully arrested the person and requested the information. (b) A person commits an offense if he intentionally gives a false or fictitious name, residence address, or date of birth to a peace officer who has: (1) lawfully arrested the person; (2) lawfully detained the person; or (3) requested the information from a person that the peace officer has good cause to believe is a witness to a criminal offense. (c) Except as provided by Subsections (d) and (e), an offense under this section is: (1) a Class C misdemeanor if the offense is committed under Subsection (a); or (2) a Class B misdemeanor if the offense is committed under Subsection (b). (d) If it is shown on the trial of an offense under this section that the defendant was a fugitive from justice at the time of the offense, the offense is: (1) a Class B misdemeanor if the offense is committed under Subsection (a); or (2) a Class A misdemeanor if the offense is committed under Subsection (b). (e) If conduct that constitutes an offense under this section also constitutes an offense under Section 106.07, Alcoholic Beverage Code, the actor may be prosecuted only under Section 106.07. |
Texas Law:
Simlified version: Not operating a motor vehicle or under arrest = No requirement for ID. |
I was gonna post that. IN Texas, you have to show a license if engaged in a licensed activity such as driving, hunting/fishing, carrying a concealed handgun under a license, etc. What LawDog quoted is Texas ID laws. It means that a person does not have to SHOW any type of ID (unless of course engaged in a licensed activity.) A person arrested must give his name, address and DOB. A person detained, or who the cop believes is a witness cannot give a FAKE name, address or DOB. He can REFUSE to ID himself unless arrested. |
Just to be sure no one misses this; if you are carryin a concealed handgun under authority of your CHL, and a Peace Officer demands that you ID yourself, you must display BOTH your CHL and State issued ID. It is not an arrestable offense, but can result in a suspended CHL. |
I was going to include that but didn't want to further complicate the issue at hand. |
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States with Stop and ID laws By each state is the statute allowing it. States not listed don't have these laws. |
IIRC being issued a CCW means you must ALWAYS present the CCW license even when not CCWing. |
| Failure to Identify is not the same thing as failure to show an I.D. If you give the officer your name, address, and D.O.B. then you have identified yourself and have complied with the law. You are not required to possess any government I.D. papers if you are not driving a motor vehicle, hunting, fishing, or carrying a CW. |
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While I dont think that anyone should have to carry and provide "papers" in order to move about in society, there are cases of legal priviliges that require such identification. Driving requires that you posess a license in most, if not all states. If you are driving without a licesnse, you can be arrested. Why do you have to have a permit to do something? Because they say so. In Florida, Im required to posess a Concealed Weapons Licesnse to carry guns, knives, 2X4s with rusty nails sticking out, Samarai swords, etc. If I dont produce an ID to an Officer, he will probably find "reasonable suspicion" by my actions at his discretion, within the confines of the law. I will probably be subject to at least a pat down, where even a moron would surely find multiple weapons. He will then ask me to provide a CCW. By state law, Im required to produce it when requested by an Officer. At this point, even if I show him my CCW the Officer will probably be annoyed and may even arrest me just for fuck of it. Even if I walk on the charges of "just pissing a cop off" it will still cost me a grand in lawyer fees to have my lawyer explain to the prosecuter that "pissing cops off" is not really against the law. I will probably have all charges dropped, but Im still out a grand. You see, there is a lot more to LE and the legal system than most people stop to consider. Cops know that even if they charge you with something that isnt illegal, you will still pay through the nose, even when the charges get dropped. While Im happy to see people challenge the courts and stand up for their rights, I realize that coutrooms are just a check out aisle for the government. The judges are the managers and the cops are the customer service reps that patrol the streets looking for potential customers to drag into their employers store. Its just like any other business except they dont have to be nice to their customers. And once you enter their store, you have to buy their services before you can leave, even if you dont use them. |
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Eh, hell, I just give the cop what he wants. It speeds things up so I can go on my way, it makes the cop feel better, it makes me feel better, I'm not really giving up any rights, I'm just being pleasant and demonstrating that I am a decent citizen supporting my local LEOs. For me, my thought is "Why be an ass about it"? So, practice this: "Sure Officer, here it is" and then hand it to him. ETA: Watch Chris Rock "How to not get your ass kicked by the police". |
Wow, that didn't take long  If an LEO has reason to ask you for ID then there's no logical reason not to provide it. That is, unless you have some weed up your ass about having "the evil government" knowing who you are. |
Because being cooperative with any government agency or individual that even resembles a source of authority makes you a submissive, conformist sheep. They have to fight the power that is this horrible, oppressive police state that we live in that requires such unreasonable actions like identifying yourself during the course of a law enforcement investigation. |
I read that and then proceeded to look up the statute referenced for GA and my only advice is, don't take everything as gospel just cos it's on the net § 16-11-36. Loitering or prowling (a) A person commits the offense of loitering or prowling when he is in a place at a time or in a manner not usual for law-abiding individuals under circumstances that warrant a justifiable and reasonable alarm or immediate concern for the safety of persons or property in the vicinity. (b) Among the circumstances which may be considered in determining whether alarm is warranted is the fact that the person takes flight upon the appearance of a law enforcement officer, refuses to identify himself, or manifestly endeavors to conceal himself or any object. Unless flight by the person or other circumstances make it impracticable, a law enforcement officer shall, prior to any arrest for an offense under this Code section, afford the person an opportunity to dispel any alarm or immediate concern which would otherwise be warranted by requesting the person to identify himself and explain his presence and conduct. No person shall be convicted of an offense under this Code section if the law enforcement officer failed to comply with the foregoing procedure or if it appears at trial that the explanation given by the person was true and would have dispelled the alarm or immediate concern. (c) A person committing the offense of loitering or prowling shall be guilty of a misdemeanor. (d) This Code section shall not be deemed or construed to affect or limit the powers of counties or municipal corporations to adopt ordinances or resolutions prohibiting loitering or prowling within their respective limits. This statute covers loitering and prowling and has nothing to do with a circumstance like the one the OP has described. |
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Name, address, and DOB is all I am required to give in Ohio, unless I am driving. Ohio stop and detain law |
Even more, in Texas unless you are arrested or engaging in a licensed activity you do not even have to tell the officer your name. |
That is just so off I am not going to comment further. |
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Well, it was meant as complete sarcastic embellishment. But you have to admit it certainly is a possible scenario, given officer discretion. My description of courtrooms is also unrealistic of most....well... some. Unless we are referring to Harris County, of course. |
This is incorrect (at least here in Texas). If I am a CHL holder, but am not currently armed I do NOT have to provide my CHL to an officer (when asked for ID, when stopped for a traffic violation, etc.) However, I do it anyway. Politeness and all. |
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