[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Helicopter Pilot (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 7/24/2007 7:31:17 PM EDT
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Just found out how much it cost. $12,000-15,000. DANG!!!!!!  
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12-15000 for a private liscence maybe. To get a commercial you will be in upwards of 50,000 dollars, plus you'll likely have to teach other students to get flight time. after that.. good luck beating out the military guys for jobs.  i looked into it a lot before joining the Army. |
Actually, he won't. Being a civilian and applying for WOCS and WOFT is difficult, and includes a 3 day flight physical at Ft. Carson, (which you must ace), letters of reccomendation, and an interview before a flight board. And then your chances are about 1 in 10. |
Tons of jobs right now. Just look at any of the boards, most of the companies in the GOM are hiring anybody with 1k+ hours PIC. Some are even dropping their hours down to 500 for a SIC job. EMS jobs are dropping their hour requirements as well, jobs that were 3,000+ hour previously are going to 1,500hrs now. I have been doing tons of research on this, talking to pilots and such. I also looked at the military, and was planning on military (not aviation), but my knees blew out again. Helicopter Pilot was my backup plan, but I couldn't figure out the financing, but that is all being taken care of now. I am in the final stages of getting my student loan to start flying, should be next week. Cost is pretty insane, as mentioned, but there really are jobs out there, and there aren't that many military pilots coming out of the military each year. Not only that, the pilots coming out of the Military don't have solo hours, which are required by the commercial operators, so they have to spend the $$$ to rent a bird to get solo hours. |
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My fixed wing private ran about $5k after getting jerked around. Alot. To get all your ratings, turbine, etc for rotary, plan on $70k+ in the civvy realm. As for recruiters, I got jerked around by 3 different recruiters over the course a year or so. When I threatened a recruiter, he finally came clean and told me that he and most recruiters feigned interest hoping a prospect would sign under infantry or an A&P as it was easier to get those MOSs filled and meet their quotas. |
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I never said that becoming an Army pilot was easy, just that is was available for those who qualify. It was never an option for me, I would have loved to do it, but don't (and didn't) have near perfect vision. I would have have had no problem qualifying in every other respect. I am also not sure if I would have made the cut at WOCS, I was just to rambunctious as a young person. |
Or you can join the Army as a pilot-candidate, and Uncle Sam will teach you to fly for free... Your training & hours do transfer to civillian ratings & such... In return, of course, he owns your ass for 6-8 years after graduation, and you get to go travel to strange places & get shot at (in most cases (eg except OH-58, MH-6 and AH-64 pilots), you can't return the favor, either).. Good eyes required, etc... P.S. They are looking for people right now... And at least for those of us IN the service, the flight physical is 2-parts, with the 2nd part coming after Ft Rucker reviews your records... One part labs & paperwork, the 2nd part 1-on-1 with the doc... I did mine in Korea, failed the optical requirements (farsighted)... They do accept PRK and are starting to accept LASIK, but they will not pay to correct farsightedness (nearsighted troops get put on a list, and it's covered under TRICARE (military health system))... What Carson has to do with Aviation, I don't know... Everything *should* be at Rucker (flight training aeromedical, etc) or Eustis (enlisted aircrew/mechanic training).... |
That is not true, I am told that the gentleman who commanded the 2/17th Cav in the first Gulf War has pictures of a certain pilot shooting a M9 out the window of a Hawk! Maybe he just got jealous of the Cobra guys having all of the fun. |
| To edjamkate every body here it is. I am a student with the largest flight training school in the world. I have over a hundred hours and am almost done with my insturment rating. You dont need an ass load of money to be a helicopter pilot. If you want to be a helicopter pilot with out joining the military, and like the military guys said they need pilots but it takes a lot to get that far and uncle sam owns you ass, all you have to do is first go to www.silverstatehelicopters.com and look around. Contact them and tell them whats up. They will take care of every thing. the cost is 69,900 and that is all of you ground materials, head set, unlimited ground school and unlimited sim time. Plus a turbine transition and also long line trainging that you will not get for free from any where else but with silverstate. Read success stories on there. The guy that is on there was actually one of my instructors. They give you the option of turning you turbine transition in for more hours in the helicopter because where ever you go you will get your trubine transition for free. Right now there is about 20000 active comercial pilots in the industry dwon from around 60,000. Companies like air logistics, era and phi are taking pilots with 1000 hours or as somebody said some companies are hiring sic with around 500 hrs. With silverstate you dont have to start paying for you loan untill 6 months after you have completed you tickets through you cfii. the ii is insturment instructor for those who didnt know. With silver state you will get hired after you cfi ticket as an instructor. For all of you who want to be a professional pilot with out the money up front because i was in this boat too believe me silver state is the way to go. You will get better training at silverstate than any where in the world. They have an award hanging on the wall at school right now for achieving a saftey record that has never been achieved... EVER. There goal is to hire every pilot they turn out as initialy cfi's and then when you get the hours you can move on to chief jobs or to there comercial ops. Silverstate flies more hours a year than all branches of the military combined a year. I am a student that is very passionate about flying and am glad that i chose silverstate. If you have any questions feel free to ask me and I will be more than happy to answer them for you or call silverstate directly. Their corprate office is in vegas so call at appropiate time. |
I looked just here in Oregon, so my main choices were Hillsboro and Precision. I chose Hillsboro, I really like the people out there so far. I think that your cost numbers are a little low. Most places will show FAA minimums as costing $45-50k, but nobody gets the ratings at the minimums, so it will probably cost $60k+. |
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If it were easy or inexpensive everyone would be doing it. Good Civilian Helo jobs are very difficult to get if you are not connected. Fwiw, 2 of my best friends were very experienced military helo pilots, and they both had to spend the additional money and years required to get civilian fixed wing pilot certificates and jobs. Don't even consider without doing a lot of research. (unless you are already rich) |
He is right! I have flown with or know tons of ex military helo pilots and they are all flying fixed wing now. I wanted to do the same thing as you with helo's but went the fixed wing route. |
I was in your shoes 17 years ago and I honestly wish you all success. Back then, I hated when people would ridicule my goals as unattainable. They are attainable, but minimizing the risks, and costs is not the way to do it. For most people $69,900 is an ass load of money. Don't put all your faith in one company. Start networking now. Good luck. |
Whats the average pay in the GOM? |
I'm going to call BS on that |
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If you rightfully exclude the Coasties, SS would be competitive. I flew with some high time ex-.mil rotor types...even the former 160 guys at the W-5/O-5 level ended a career with 3500-4500 hours. Those would be guys flying alot. Your standard Mark 2, Mod 0 CW2 if probably at this point going to leave the service with less than 1500 hours. I met a P-3 LCDR the other day with 1100 hours. He couldn't get an ATP. While he didn't have an instructor tour, he said that would have been good for only about another 300-400 hours. At 5000 hours, I'm a pretty low to mid time civvie fixed wing pilot. |
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Depends on the company, and if you are doing PIC, SIC, and if you are doing a VFR or IFR bird, light or medium, etc. Starting pay for some of the companies for a PIC of a VFR ship, is around $53k+. There is a lot of chance for overtime too, so $60k+ isn't out of the question for the first year. There are other options as well. The tour companies in Las Vegas use new pilots to do the Grand Canyon, and there are jobs up in Alaska as well. Vegas pays a little less than the GOM from the numbers I have seen, but there is also supposed to be tips (don't know how realistic that is). I haven't heard much about Alaska, but that it's more dangerous, and the pay is less. |
| i have a buddy/ex flight instuctor who went to air logistics about 5 months ago and doesnt do too bad. He works two weeks on two off and makes a base of about 50k with raises every six months per deum ets good too plus about 500 a day over time. So if you wanna do some over time you could make 75 a year no problem with some decewnt time off. Oh every quarter you get a 500 dollar safty bonus as well. To the fixed wing guys helicopter jobs want helicopter time. the only thing bad about fixed wing is initialy you wont get as much as a heliocpter job with lots more money invested. look at this 70,000 for helicopter tickets. starting pay as a cfi at silver state about 50,000 to get all requirements in a fixed wing to fly for like express jet close to 125,000 plus starting pay about 35,000 there is a lot more fixed wing guys than helicopters. It really depends on what you taste is. helo pilots can move up a little faster just based on the simple fact that there is not 250,000 pilots waiting for the next bastard to retire to get moved in to a bigger plane. |
You got owned by the biggest flight training scam in the US. Hope you get a job that will pay off the loan. |
Come on man... don't just shit on his parade and leave him hanging. Give some advice or something. Perhaps some links? Or maybe some contact info for a reputable school? |
I didn't want to be the one to say it, but SSH does have a pretty poor reputation right now. Wouldn't have been my first choice, but hey, I know there are success cases coming out from there. ETA. Silver State Helicopters is the "Front Sight" of flight schools, including the threatened lawsuits against forum owners who allowed negative posts about the school. |
| ok to every one who is hating on here. first of all this is my buddies screen name. second of all to all those who are supportive thank you. Third of all if you do the math and do the home work silverstate is the best training for the money. I know this because im half done with their program. Yes I will agree that the financal aid that they get for you is not exactly the best. Yes I know this but their is options out there. I did what they gave me to get me in with them and am doing my own route. Yes they do give you some b/s along the way but i didnt care and have a bigger plan. I love flying and that was all that mattered to me. Find you own financial aid. There has been some cases that yes the students got pissed and left and tried to sue them. But if you were to price all of the stuff they give you, like the ground materials, head set, unlimited ground, the knowledge that you will recieve in the ground courses, and long line training plus a job that pays pretty decent for a very low time pilot, they cant be beat. To the guy who said that you have to be a monkey and let somebody try to kill you, yes i couldnt agree with you more, but the only problem is price a helicopter out for 1000 hours and see what it cost. Also that rookie sitting next to you trying to kill you is going to make you that much better becasue even at 1000 hours you are still considered a low time pilot. Its almost unheared of that a cfi with 200 hrs making over 50k a year is almost unheard of. There is lots of b/s to deal with as with any company but if it were easy every body would do it. Another thing is that you might have to deal with some b/s along the way, absolutely, but they also have a safety record that know body in the history of flight in the helicopter industry has ever achieved. A scam, not quite because i am half done, but some b/s i couldnt agree more. But I will gladly deal with some b/s for the best training money can buy and safety is number one. |
| I worked with a guy going to school for his fixed wing pilot's license a year ago. I'm not sure if things have changed, but at the time pretty much everyone wanted to be a helicopter pilot and the market was saturated with people looking for jobs. Seems everyone else thought it would be a cool job too. |
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savagenation By your own words you have over 100 hours and are about half finished at Silver State. That means they are into you for roughly $150k to $200k; the cost of headsets, charts, ground school, and all the peripherals barely rates as incidental cost in a flight training program, particularly one for helicopters, and especially once you leave piston engine machines. I know Siver States has all sorts of disclaimers about the law suits they are fighting in half a dozen different states, and they have lost at least two, the last time I checked. I think you can make a good living in helo's, but you're going to pay some incredibly high "dues". Dues means years of shitty jobs, sleeping on couches in the airport lounge, eating out of vending machines, and flying equipment that is airworthy only because the operator's shop is too far from the FSDO or GADO for close scrutiny by the FAA, all for pauper's wages, and in your case, a crushing debt on top. Like I said, good luck, maybe you'll land a sweet corporate job flying the latest helo's. |
oh, I'm sure they'll feed me the same line of BS they fed you.... |
(I fought my way through the first post...not this one.Paragraphs are my friend.) I almost left the Air Force for the Army to fly. Glad I didn't, I would have never made it. I am determined to get a fixed wing ticket in a few years just to do it. Rotary wing was always in the back of my mind (since reading about fligth school in"Chickenhawk" years ago) but jesus, that's a lot of money if it's not for a career, and it's still too much. I am suprised how little a new pilot makes. Makes me glad I went into nursing working 3 days a week. Oschner flew a baby out of my hospital the other day with their back-up ride. It was an old Huey that was updated, look like it was on "Pimp my Helicopter" and got a body kit and yellow and black paint job....pretty funny. |
Instructor/student inbreeding. Rookie teaches rookie, handing down mistakes and bad habits from one to the next. They do some of this at ERAU too (fixed wing, of course), and I always thought it was nuts. |
They get to give each other check rides, too. 
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I work with a lot of helicopter flight schools, and helicopter students. MOST helicopter schools out there are there to rip you off, shit you out, and take $80,000 of your money with them. They are 95% of the time a scam. They charge you $450+ per hour in their R44s, over 200 an hour for the 22s. Ever bothered to see what the DOC is on those aircraft (counting insurance)? You'd be surprised at the amount of money they're making, per hour, per student. It's obscene.  Sure, there are a few good schools out there, that produce a FEW good pilots. But the VAST MAJORITY of student helicopter pilots are going to get ripped off. Every single day I hear of and personally talk to students who are in for $20,000 and still have not gotten their private pilot certificates. And sooo many folks I talk to are the "I just got divorced and lost my house, and my job. I want to {get in MORE debt to try and get in a career where I will have no chance of getting ahead} become a helicopter pilot." If you want to fly helicopters for a career, go to the military. FIXED WING is another story. There are a few shady schools out there, but the rate of success is FAR higher than helicopters, and the vast majority of fixed wing schools WILL get you to the point where you can go get a job. You CAN get into an airline going the civvy side, and relatively easily right now. |
| they dont get to give check rides at all of their schools just the ones that are 141 and im not into it for 150 k. They are not even the ones with my loan. My loan is through a third party. I have a different route that i went and also i have several friends that went to air log with 1000 hours making over 50 a year for six months worth of work. Flying fixed wing ya I would have to live out of a suite case. |
List the good ones! |
Take this in the spirit it's given. You need to learn to communicate. Part of my job is to interview and hire pilots. (fixed wing) I have been involved in interviewing and hiring of Airline and Corporate pilots for over 9 years. Communication, both written and verbal plays a big part in the process. Try to organize your thoughts, and use paragraphs. Use a spell checker. We all make mistakes, but both of your posts were almost impossible to read. Don't assume you know everything. At this point you know maybe 5%. After 18 years in the industry I still wouldn't claim to know more than maybe 30% One thing I do know is that aviation is terribly unforgiving of sloppiness, overconfidence, and blind faith. BTW- the alleged safety record of a particular company means next to nothing. The only flight that counts is your next one. Some quotes from perhaps the cockiest pilot ever: I was always afraid of dying. Always. It was my fear that made me learn everything I could about my airplane and my emergency equipment, and kept me flying respectful of my machine and always alert in the cockpit. Chuck Yeager Most pilots learn,... that one thing you don't do, you don't believe anything anybody tells you about an airplane. Chuck Yeager There's no such thing as a natural-born pilot. Chuck Yeager Here's a classic from Harry Reasoner, 1971. The thing is, helicopters are different from planes. An airplane by it’s nature wants to fly, and if not interfered with too strongly by unusual events or by a deliberately incompetent pilot, it will fly. A helicopter does not want to fly. It is maintained in the air by a variety of forces and controls working in opposition to each other, and if there is any disturbance in this delicate balance the helicopter stops flying; immediately and disastrously. There is no such thing as a gliding helicopter. This is why being a helicopter pilot is so different from being an airplane pilot, and why in generality, airplane pilots are open, clear-eyed, buoyant extroverts and helicopter pilots are brooding introspective anticipators of trouble. They know if something bad has not happened it is about to. |
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to bill of rights. I know that my grammer and spelling is not my strong point. Never was really good at it. I know that i dont know every thing nore did i ever say that i did. But when people say stuff about things that I am doing such as ss it is irratating. SPELLING ?? Trust me I know that ss has its share of bs. I have a few complaints trust me. I also work for one of the biggest airlines in the world and know that you take every thing you hear and see and digest it at your own level and make your own outcome of it. Yes as far as safety goes i agree that as a company means nothing. What matters is that i make it back on the ground safely. Thats means doing that extra preflight and question something that doesnt seem right. As far as a helicopter gliding, i have done sever hundred glides. Yes helicopters are a different bread but they still glide. They still have wings but they just spin. When it comes to safety, I believe for the amount of ships and the amount of hours as a company that they put on them in a year has to say something about there safety as a company for there pilots and for there students. Here is an example, There is a small helicopter flight school on the other side of the field. They have balled up three helicopters just this year alone. SS has not did that in the almost seven years they have been a company and they have close to 400 birds where as the one accross the field has only about 6. They must be doing something right, They are going to new york for orange county choppers and occ is building us a bike. It will be on tlc begining of sept. That doesnt mean much i know but they have made a name for them selves. As with any company out there you will have to deal with some bs in one way or another. I See where you come from and itstead of being rude you told me how you felt in a respectful way. Cant say that for some others. |