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Posted: 10/4/2001 11:10:26 PM EDT
I seem to remember seeing pictures and reading (Richard Marchinko) about the SEALs occasionally using the M66 .357's sometimes for some missions. Can anyone confirm or disconfirm this? If it's true please explain a little bit. I can understand the desire for stopping power, but I don't understand why they would use a revolver.
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 4:10:20 AM EDT
Because every time you pull the trigger it goes bang! I have a friend who has a new Glock 9mm- I lusted over it untill it jammed on the second magazine full and it took him over an hour to clear the jam. He had to take the whole gun apart. Thanks, I'll carry my 2" 357 any day![kill]
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 4:37:42 AM EDT
They were also stainless, which helps when you are swimming quite a few miles in salt water. Evidently Marcinko's dirtbags used more ammo in training one year than the rest of the Marines did the same year. Doom on you. Bulldog Out
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 4:38:43 AM EDT
I believe those particular M66's came from S&W's custom shop, not sure about about what modifications/enhancements were made.
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 4:39:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By buffman: I have a friend who has a new Glock 9mm- I lusted over it untill it jammed on the second magazine full and it took him over an hour to clear the jam. He had to take the whole gun apart.
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Hm. My "BS" alarm is going off at volume 11 here. A Glock jamming is not entirely unheard of event, specially if the shooter is limp-wristing the pistol. But an [b]hour[/b] to clear the malfunction? I can't and won't believe that. Not if your friend has any mechanical abilities at all. Glocks come apart in 5 seconds, at most. Care to clarify what happened? As for the SEALs, I tend to doubt they carry revolvers with them. I'm under the impression that their standard sidearm is still a 9mm of some flavor. jas
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 4:52:38 AM EDT
Yeah, they did. The reason for this is it would cycle under water, and cycle reliably even after having been submerged in water. You can get what's called a "Maritime Spring Cup" for your Glock that will allow it to cycle under water. Anyway, I carry a 2" .357 revolver anyway. I got Glocks and HS2000 and a Sig or 2, and a buttload of other handguns. Still. For personal defense, nothing beats a wheelgun. Don't fall into the crap of "buy what the millitry buys"- They had their reasons for selecting the M9- one of which was financial; a problem that doesn't affect the civillian buying his/her own pistol with his own money. They are regretting not selecting the Sig 226 (which was slightly more expensive) becasue early in the Beretta run, they were cracking slides. This problem has been corrected, but it is still millitary armorer SOP to this day to have to inspect the slides of M9's after every 3000 rounds. The only reason the didn't select Glock was becasue they specified a "Double Action" weapon- which the Glock isn't. I really really hate the Beretta. A 9MM the size of a boat anchor makes absolutley NO sense to me.
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 4:57:06 AM EDT
M66's are absolutely carried by SEAL teams. What few photos I've seen of them have shown prominent use of the stainless revolver. Probably for the reasons Buffman and Bulldog give. I believe its HK that provides a LARGE semi-auto pistol that sees use by the elite teams. Other sidearms MAY get use if the individual operator or mission require. M66 is the only sidearm I'm aware that got wide acceptance. But I'm NOT an ex-SEAL so any better informed sources would be appreciated.
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 5:33:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Arock: I believe its HK that provides a LARGE semi-auto pistol that sees use by the elite teams.
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That would be the Mk23Mod0 USSOCOM. It is the only pistol in use by the U.S. designated for offensive use, rather than defensive. [url]http://www.hkpro.com/socom.htm[/url]
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 6:03:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By w00dy:
Originally Posted By Arock: I believe its HK that provides a LARGE semi-auto pistol that sees use by the elite teams.
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That would be the Mk23Mod0 USSOCOM. It is the only pistol in use by the U.S. designated for offensive use, rather than defensive. [url]http://www.hkpro.com/socom.htm[/url]
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Damn thing looks like a CREW SERVED HAND GUN!! Bulldog Out
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 6:23:36 AM EDT
Since those guys are the ones doing the fighting, those guys should be the ones to pick the goodies. But I still seriously question the purpose of the an "offensive handgun". The sole virtue of a handgun is it's concealability, and size. It's meant to be a gun for when you can't carry a rifle (or shotgun depending) The MK23 is so big (As far as handguns go), I seriously don't get what it's purpose is meant to be? If it's a matter of pure supression, there are plenty of very compact pistol calliber carbines which offer not only the option of FA, the option of a 3rd contact point in a shoulder stock, but equal supression to boot! (The PDW comes to mind) I REALLY REALLY don't get the "offensive pistol" concept when there are so many better weapons available- equally as compact.
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 6:37:15 AM EDT
Special Forces carry the Mark 23, NOT seals. Seals carry a sig p226 in 9mm. The shows on the history channel, and the discovery channel, about seals each take at least 3 minutes to describe and display all of the weapons the seals use. Same goes for the shows on the special forces. I dunno what delta force uses, cause they don't exist.[peep] I have not seen the revolver you describe mentioned, but it is possible they still carry that as a backup.
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 6:45:50 AM EDT
revolvers do not leave spent shell cases behind - sometimes its important that no evidence of having been there is important
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 6:48:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By slidelock1: revolvers do not leave spent shell cases behind - sometimes its important that no evidence of having been there is important
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I think this may be a very good reason for revolver usage.
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 6:51:23 AM EDT
Since I've never handled a Desert Eagle, how does the size of this gun compare to a Beretta 92FS? Heavier? Bigger? Wider? Av.
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 6:52:59 AM EDT
I read this as well in a book called "Weapons of the Navy SEALs" or something like that. It is an excellent book, written by a former SEAL, and covers handguns, long guns, grenades, knives, etc.. I don't recall the author, and the book is at home (yes, I'm surfing at work). The purpose of the revolver was during their first live fire training. It would get them used to gunfire in close quarters without having to think about the mechanics of a semi. They also would be less likely to cap off a round from a double action trigger pull when nervous. Other reasons included some mentioned above, such as salt water carry, deniability and also when undercover where you wouldn't be carrying a Beretta or HK.
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 6:54:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By slidelock1: revolvers do not leave spent shell cases behind - sometimes its important that no evidence of having been there is important
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Wouldn't the dead body be somewhat of a giveaway?
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 7:21:17 AM EDT
Wouldn't the dead body be somewhat of a giveaway? Perhaps but shell casings quickly reveal headstamp, caliber, and possible the position(direction) from which shot was taken. And if time permits bodies can sometimes be hidden or moved. Sometimes spent shell casings are very difficult to locate.
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 7:31:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Avalon01: Since I've never handled a Desert Eagle, how does the size of this gun compare to a Beretta 92FS? Heavier? Bigger? Wider? Av.
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All of the above.
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 7:49:22 AM EDT
It seems like the SEALs have a freaking weapon for every possible continency. I spent an afternoon with a few of the guys of Team 3 a couple of years ago during Fleet Week in SF. They had a whole bench of weapons as follows: o Sig 226: sidearm, mainly used if their primary failed of if they had to bug out. o HK Mk23: Boat anchor. The SEALS I spoke with saw the thing as too bulky, a pistol designed by committee. o S&W M66: Principally a pistol for use at the surf/sand interface. For when it absolutely had to go bang. o M4 with Urban Warrior Aimpoint/NVG setup: Helicopter Sniper weapon. o MP-5N: General Mayhem weapon. o M-14: Desert/Scrub environments. My favorite was talking to the SEAL sniper about his .300 Win Mag Rem 700. I asked him if using that non-standard cartridge was a problem logistically. He just looked at me and said, "It has a flatter trajectory."
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 8:12:35 AM EDT
Darknite is pretty pretty much right on according to my understanding. There are a couple others here that should be mentioned. I hear 1911's are still popular. Also, I believe some HK USP 45's were purchased. I'm not sure if they are compacts of fullsizes. They have similar taste to me, the sig 226, HK USP 45 and SW M66 are three of my favorite pistols. As to why one would use a wheel gun, it's the same reason seals sometimes use AK's, maximum reliability under extreme conditions.
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 9:52:48 AM EDT
I guess that in the Mk23 Mod 0, too many features had to be crammed into it, ie: separate decocking lever and so on.. From what i´ve gathered it hasn´t enjoyed much success with the operators. I think a A HK USP Tactical .45 ACP would be a better choice, it can use the other accessories(LAM, suppressor...) and is more compact. The SIG P226 [b]IS[/b] the SEAL issue pistol, known as the Mk 24 Mod 0. The use of S&W M686s is described in "SEALs In Action" and "Special Warfare, Special Weapons", both by Kevin Dockery.
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 9:57:27 AM EDT
My first duty weapon was an S&W M66. I still have it 14 years later. BTW, I only replied to up my post count.
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 11:37:13 AM EDT
I read Rouge Warrior a long time ago, but think I recall that Marcinco also selected the "ubiquitous Mini-14" (I remember because I had to look up ubiquitous). Any truth to that? I have no idea where my copy is, and doubt I'll be running out to Books A Million for another one.
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