O.K. guys, I've been at the range with Rick a few times, and the aspersions being cast on his ability to be a responsible gun owner are [i] bullshit [/i].  He's always proven his competence in handling a firearm and exibiting safety.

Some of you are making it sound like the rifle in question was siiting on the bench completely assembled with a case of ammo sitting alongside it just waiting to be loaded.

I have guns.  I have a seven year old son.  My son is not [i] ignorant [/i] of guns.  He has been raised around firearms, and as a responsible gunowner, I have taught him to respect them and he knows not to screw with them.  I am sure Rick has done the same.

My guns stay locked up and so does my ammo.  I don't expect a cop or anybody, for that matter, to waltz into my garage.  I too have been guilty of leaving a gun or two unattended in my garage while I use the head or grab a snack.

Don't be so quick to judge.

Well, well, well.
Gunslinger- WYFproblem?  I see you are invisioning my garage and unattended rifle.
I have three kids that thoroughly understand about weapons safety, they have friends that play in the backyard too.
So because I dont trust the other kids, I always remove ammo from the area and if I leave to get a drink of water, I take a part from the weapon, in this case the bolt was with me in the house of said rifle, so that makes all your kind remarks, such as irresponsible, stupid, idiot, makes "US" look bad, pretty much useless doesnt it?
 Did you read a different story? One that had a NG?
Gunslinger is pretty apt description of your reply. I only hope you show more restraint in a possible  defense of home sitz, wouldnt want you to mistakingly shoot a family member or a LEO. Ya see that would make us look bad.yadik  

Sorry for the size. I couldnt get the link for non members.
[img]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WebShooters/files/WebShooters%20shoot%20pictures/Webshooters%20June%202%2C%202001/P6020123.jpg[/img]

Sue them, that is an illegal search and siezure which is strictly forbidden by the constitution. Sue them in Federal court.
WHY THE HECK did you let them take your gun?
are you Nucking Futs?

Are you serious about that?

So Rich, what you are saying then is if someone would have stolen the gun while he were sitting on your ass eating dinner and letting it soak you have said, "Oh that is alright. It's no big deal someone stold my rifle while I left it lying around because I've still got the bolt." It's the same thing. If you leave your toys sitting around and someone (LEO or thief) picks them up it is your fault, not theirs.
I stand my my original statement that I think you're an idiot.
And while we're on the subject of home defense, my user name and the possiblity that I would mistakenly shoot an LEO; I am a retired LEO and the nick name was given to me by some of my fellow officers some twentyfive years ago. I was given the name because I "won" a gunfight with an asshole I was chasing through a residential neighborhood that shot me first.

Chuck, you haven't been paying attention again. There was no illegal search and seizure and there is no grounds for a law suit.

I guess that with “goat” sense you probably soak your gun fully assembled and loaded, in which case you might jump to the conclusions that you did.
A lot of people however, are blessed with the sense God gave humans (not all however). Most of those prefer to hear more of the facts before making judgments as apposed to going off, based on a few “goat” sense assumptions.

I resized the pic for you Rich314.

[img]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SOCAL_AR15_Club/files/WebShooters%20pics/P6020123.jpg[/img]

Someone stealing a rifle that will not fire until a replacement bolt for said rifle and in that caliber is a very real possibilty I should be always looking at? OK
To be honest, if someone breaks into my garage to steal a rifle, he has to come by the house to ge away. I just might have other weapons in the house.
My main concern is my kids safety.
You used to be a cop? What a shocker.
Kepp calling me names for what you think is the whole story, it just embarrasses any real LEO`s to be ASSociated with you. YADIK
You`ve never met me and your calling me an idiot and other names, that also shows immaturity, thank God your no longer imposing your brand of law enforcment on the public anymore.
To be honest, I thought you were just another teenager that knows everything, I`m suprised to hear you have twentyfive years doing anything.
Stand by your statement. I could care less, and will not change my regime for a less than educated advice.  

FWIW: Gunslinger thinks everyone other than himself is an idiot...

Question the source, not the content!

Good response there anti for a moderator. But then the rules of conduct do not apply to you.
Just because I think Rich is an idiot (and he continues to prove the point for me) and you are a pissant wanna be little Hilter consumed with ego with the closet thing you will come to in a power trip of being able to lock peoples accounts whom disagree with you doesn't men that I think everyone else is an idiot.

Rich, I would think someone that left a gun lying around to be picked up by the first person to come along would be the last person to be whinning about someone elses maturity. Had I done something that stupid I damn sure would not be crying to the world that some mean ol' policeman picked it up for me. Hell, you should thank him for securing it for you. Obviously you didn't have enough sense to take care of it or it would not have left your possession. Anyone here that has ever been in the military can tell you that a person doesn't leave a gun sitting around while they go eat dinner.
I still conclude that had you posted here that you left your gun sitting in the garage and someone stold it everyone on this board would be calling you an idiot.

Nowhere does it say that Anti is a Moderator.  ARLady is a Moderator.  Anti is Staff.  Spare us the rant.

You are an immature troll.  


Again, why should anyone assume that people will tresspass and steal stuff.  That is THEIR fault not yours!  You are starting to sound like Sarah Brady.  "A gun is always dangerous even when it is just sitting there".

Why do you keep so many damn guns in your house if you know someone might steal them?

Torf, to address your post in order.
anti, does not hesitate to delete members accounts on his own personal whims. Often times simply because they disagree with him and more than once when he has done the same thing they did to "warrant" his deleting their account. This is not the first time that this has been brought up here and I am not the only one to recognize it. anti allows his ego and emotions to dictate his speach and actions and not common sense that should be practiced by a [i]staff[/i] member on a discussion board. So spare me the bleeding heart, kissing up, whine.

I am an immature troll based on what? The fact that I am not hesitant to call someone is an idiot when they do something genuinely idiotic? Or perhaps because I disagree with your position? Or it be because you lack the ability to present a viable agrument so accusing me of being an immature troll is the best you can articulate? I suspect the latter.

Why should assume someone might tresspass on your property and steal something? This really deserves no response, but I will accomodate you.
Where have you been that you do not see the fact that people do this daily? The technical term for it is burglary. The elements of that particular crime are;
A person or persons knowingly and willing entering a building or inhabitable structure for the purpose of committing any crime.
For the uninitive such as yourself that crime is often times theft. You will notice that no where does it state there must be forced entry to establish the elements of the crime. But when common sense is applied, something that Rich did not exercise and you are not following in your post, is that we don't leave valueable property lying around unsecured. I don't suppose you've ever heard the saying that locks keep honest people honest so I will not bother trying to educate you beyond that point. But the fact remains that if we leave something of value lying around there is a chance it will be stolen. So you leave the windows down and the keys hanging in the ignition of your car if it is parked in a bad part of town? If someone does and their car is stolen then whose fault is that?
It is not pleasant. But it is a part of the society we live in. If you think other wise and are foolish enough to do this then I submit you are the one who is being "Brady-like" in thinking the world is one big happy place.

No, I am not a supporter of the rhetoric about guns being dangerous just sitting there. But be it a gun, a car, or a diamond ring if you leave things sitting around somebody might just steal them. (See above) If that is the case and someone does steal them then I do not want to hear a bunch of crying and bitching that some big ol' bad guy came and took my stuff.

I secure my guns in a built in vault when I leave. If, after getting past the dogs, the alarm system and breaching the vault someone steals them I have exercised my responsibility in securing them to the best I can. If I leave one of them sitting out next to the mail box with a big red bicycle flag on it then it is my fault it got stolen.

Lastly I noticed you avoided mentioning anything further about the illegal tresspassing and search and seizure by the officer. What's the matter? Did you decide it was in your better interest to stop playing armchair lawyer?

So are you saying that you never leave your guns lying around when you go down range?

Actually I have my own (small) range on my own property.
But surely you are not trying to compare leaving ones weapon sitting on a bench at the range with others shooters around and while still within sight of it with leaving one to go off and have dinner.
The fact is someone did pick it up while it was sitting there. Rich should be thankful it was a police officer and not a thief.

Ok, so if someone comes into my house and steals my TV while I'm in the bathroom, is it my fault because I left the door to my house unlocked and had to piss???

I'm not 100% against the cop either, if a criminal was fleeing in the neighborhood, it makes sense to go on people property(usually trespassing), and check for unlock/opened doors, and investigate inside.  But they do not have a search warrant, they are not their to examine everything in people's houses, and anything they happen to find that wasn't left by the fleeing criminal, should be left alone and inadmissible in court.  With a fleeing criminal, a gun might be something you pick up and put in a vehicle or something until you find the legit owner.  I could also see asking the owner for ID, and a quick radio check for warrants before returning the gun(incase the person stating they were the owner was working with the criminal somehow).  But I see no reason to keep it for any time longer than neccessary.  Once the owner has been identified, and asks for it back, It should be returned ASAP.  Otherwise the officer has just STOLEN private property, gun or anything else he might pick up.

All rifles are sniper rifles. No,make that "high-powered" sniper rifles.

Yeah, and a pellet gun is a high powered silent sniper covert military stealth rifle!

AND WHY IS JESSE JACKSON GOING TO AFGHANISTAN?!?!?!

Nice little name calling rants you offer up here Gunslinger...

Ironically, nobody but YOU has done that on this thread, and most of your posts have contained direct insults.  You have made my point perfectly clear!

Is it just me, or have all the other stories I've heard like this occured in Kalifornia???

AND WHY IS JESSE JACKSON GOING TO AFGHANISTAN?!?!?![/quote]


Grandstanding. He's trying to use the murder of 7,000 Americans to advance himself. I hope he goes and never comes back.

So how do you [i]really[/i] feel? I would never leave my cleaning bench area unlocked for a minute without me there. Locking the garage door is always prudent and responsible. Hanging guns on your walls is stupid and went out of style in the 1960's along with Acid Trips.

I suppose if the rifle was really left someplace in the open air and in plain view from the sidewalk or street, it would be an error of judgement.  We really do not know this however, and to simply assume, is jumping ahead of yourself.
If the gun sat in an obvious shop area, in a state of disassembly, in solution, and in the owners house, I really don't see any reason to jump all over his case.  His drift punch set might get stolen, or his bike, but that is a risk the gun owner was willing to take.  I am willing to risk that someone will not steal my guns from where they are cleaned and kept, even when they are out and unattended.  
I only called you a troll because you use the classic tactic of assigning sheer stupidity with someone you disagree with, and also throw out idiotic examples, like "sitting out next to the mail box with a big red bicycle flag on it" or a diamond ring sitting in the driveway.  Those examples were never part of the discussion, and in those casesI would agree with you.
If some came into your garage, and picked up your stuff, and started walking away with it, wouldn't you do somthing?  "Hey, Buddy!  Put that _____ down!  What the Hell are you doing?"  You would probably be armed as well.  You obviously consider your garage, or shed or whatever a part of your property, and not to be messed with.

I am not a lawyer, and don't play one on TV, but I have a problem with cops entering private residences with out permission and confiscating anything.  I am glad it was returned, as it should have been.  The little "Sniper Rifle" snip was uncalled for.  

Where was the BG the whole time?  Getting away while a gun owner was being "processed"?  Why such a waste of time.  There was no reasonable suspicion that that rifle had anything to do with the BG.

For the record, I know little about AntiUSSA or anybody else on this site.  I do know however that he is not a moderator.  He is staff and that was my entire short and simple point.  If you don't like him around, start your own web site, and don't hire him.

DVDTracker- cops were doing a search, not a pursuit. Came down a long driveway, looked in backyard, behind garage then in small side door in garage that was closed not locked. main car doors were closed and nothing was visible until entering. I should have locked it, lesson learned.
The rifle was not the most expensive item in the garage, I have a pretty nice wood shop with pricey saws and such, bikes, atvs, trailers (2), stereo, etc.......It aint easy to get to and I watched them enter the backyard and search. Far be it from me to question or bother leo trying to catch someone I dont want around my house. I knew they where searching the area and the load speakers pretty much explained what they were doing.  
Gunslinger-FOAD

>Gunslinger- WYFproblem?  I see you are >invisioning my garage and unattended rifle.

That's what you said in your original post and the follow up post.

>So because I dont trust the other kids, I >always remove ammo from the area and if I >leave to get a drink of water, I take a part >from the weapon, in this case the bolt was >with me in the house of said rifle,

So if you had the bolt in your possesion then the police did not take a firearm from your. They took the other parts of your firearm.

>so that makes all your kind remarks, such as >irresponsible, stupid, idiot, makes "US" look >bad, pretty much useless doesnt it?

That makes your argument of "protecting your family" with your firearm pretty silly since it was disabled and sitting in your unlocked garage. "Excuse me Mr. Bad Guy, I need to go to the garage and reassemble my firearm and then find ammunition for it. I'll be back in 5 minutes tops, don't do anything till I get back".

>Did you read a different story?

Nope, we read what you posted.

gunman, one can not compare having a gun sitting in the living room and going to take a piss to leaving one in a garage. Other than that I think we completely agree.

Torf, I agree with everything you said in that post. The officer should have taken possession of the gun and then immediately returned it once he had identified the owner. I believe, based on Rich's story, which incidently seems to come in bits and pieces, that is exactlly what happened.
As far as me starting my own board and not "hiring" anti; I do own my own firearms discussion board and have for close to a year now. And no, anti would not be welcome there as a staff member in any capacity.

Hey, No problem then.  I knew we could resolve that little tiff.

Glad to hear you have your own disc. forum.  Good luck with it!  [:)]