[ARCHIVED THREAD] - How many years until.... (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 2/21/2007 6:36:32 AM EDT
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How many years until this country has a civil war...or will it? No bullshit, just want an honest answer, in years. Don’t get the post locked w/ crazy talk and hi-jinks. If the Mods feel this should not be here, or not asked at all, so be it...just lock/delete. I'm curious to see what people think in terms of time. Again, nothing else needs be said. |
| I doubt there will be a civil war, the last one really sucked for everyone involved. A new one would be even worse. There were more soldiers killed in the Civil War than any other war America has ever fought, and now the country is much more heavily populated and weapons are much more powerful. |
It would never happen, we've evolved enough as a nation that this couldn't take place. The military would step in way before it got out of hand like that. As great as it is that there are citizens who own their own AR15's, taking up arms in defense of a cause and all that great mess - there simply aren't enough private citizens that could successfully go up against the government and actually win (then continue to fight a civil war against their fellow countrymen). Yes there are class 3 owners who will argue against this, but simply not enough that it would make a difference. Some jackass with an M249 in his basement isn't going to stop a platoon of marines ready to jump on your shit. Realistically, no matter what level of 'surprise' tactics are brought into play, the united states military would squelch any sort of uprising regardless of its level of coordination and strategic planning. I feel the idea of a civil war fits neatly into the same category as those SHTF nuts who want to buy up land in the middle of the ozarks in case a foreign power successfully invades (red dawn anyone?) or the people who jokingly refer to killing zombies with the underlying innuendo of zombies being people, trying to invade one's home. In all seriousness, if any of this actually took place you don't need a war bunker in the middle of the mountains or 30 bricks of 5.56, you'd be more pressed to secure a sustainable food/water/energy supply than a small military arsenal. |
Fixed it for you. |
tell the Iraqis that.. fred |
Or the vietnamese, or the Afghans in the '80s. |
Exactly. Fantasies of societal collapse leading to all-out war are just that... fantasies. People who are anxious to use all the weapons and ammo they have stocked up just don't understand how horrible war is. A Katrina type situation is a far more likely occurance. A massive power outtage and/or some huge natural disaster could throw the country into turmoil, but war is not what you have to worry about. Looting and theft after a major disaster is what you should be concerned about... not all-out war with someone you don't like. |
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civil war, won't happen..but I agree, let the power go out and just see how long it takes for the shooting to start. (looters vs property owners....thugs vs thugs) After Katrina, we saw that even if the affected area is just several cities, it may take the govt several days to regain order, until then, your on your own. If the affected area is several states or even the whole country, it would be months before order is restored. so...civil war..no chance ......civil disorder..yes...and sooner than we think. |
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Not in my lifetime and not in my kid's lifetime. America's quality of life is too high. As long as it is even half as high as it is now or there is an expectation it can get back to it people will be willing to put up with depression, restrictive laws, higher taxes, oppressive goverment, an armed policeman looking in their windows every night to make sure they're behaving...you name it. I am way more afraid of what my descendants will have to put up with before it ever gets to that point than I am of anything remotely close to my lifetime. It's one of the reasons I hate ANY and ALL attacks on the Constitution and civil rights in my lifetime. |
Nope. It would just make the masses even more sheepish and let the goverment have even more restrictive control and erode even more of our rights. Anyone ever read the Tommy Franks article about what would happen in the event of really major terrorist attack and national martial law was declared? |
I disagree. We'll see total gun bans,travel papers,curfews,and martial law,but the vast majority will adapt. Sure,a few of "US" will fight,but they have the media on their side.Anyone that fights will be a terrorist and have child porn on their computer and a drug lab in the basement.Your friewnds and neighbors will know the truth,but the vast majority (including here  ) will applaud.
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Yeah, like the 30,000 people killed in the riots after Hurricane Andrew in south Florida 15 years ago. Or the 100,000 Mississippians still interred in camps to this day, after Hurricane Katrina. Pish. You are confusing opportunism by criminals for civil war. Even New Orleans was a case of a few hundred (generously, thousand) looters stealing chips and malt liquor. Suprisingly little actual fighting, for a city that went underwater. If anything, Katrina demonstrated that a huge chunk of the civilian population will sit in their homes and DIE rather than get up and demand something be done. |
Ha! Fat chance. Oh wait, you mean like there was last time...keep dreaming about blue helmets. |
| The New World Order types seek the "Balkanization" of the world including the US to foster hatred among ethnic populations (potentially creating civil wars)to make it easier to defeat otherwise organized nations and bring in global government. This has been a goal as long as I have been reading their publications. |
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Author Michael Crichton put it very plainly: All it takes for a civil war is for one side to start shooting. The other side then has no choice - either respond in kind, or die. I've been vacillating between believing we'll have a second Civil War and not. We've not been this divided as a nation since 1864, IMHO. But the demarcation isn't North vs. South. It's Red-county vs. Blue-county. Right now I don't think we're going to have another Civil War. But I fully expect a lot more Marvin Heemeyers and Carl Dregas. And it won't do a bit of good. |
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I seriously doubt we'll see a civil war, as in one faction attempting to wrest power from another faction. We might see a seccession of states like ID, MT, WY, and nearby areas. But I doubt that would happen in the absence of some kind of catastrophe, like an economic collapse (which is a distinct possibility). I don't think that would lead to war, though, as DC would have much more to worry about than a few "renegades". Once everything got straightened out, the "renegades" would have to choose whether or not to rejoin the fold, and that could get messy, especially if the result of the collapse was more Socialism and the free states went towards more freedom. |
That's interesting that you would entertain the idea of states seceding from the union. I think politicians who even suggested such a thing would be labeled as crackpots and quickly removed from their seat of power. Such a radical suggestion from someone in a high office would of course be met with overwhelming outcries against it (unless that state has some magical way of sustaining itself completely without the help of the U.S.) I cannot imagine people taking up arms on a scale larger than say that of a Katrina-esque scenario with a relatively small number of people receiving a media blowup of coverage. I think '50 major cities bringing the nation to its knees (via terrorist related acts - read gringopistolero: Ive said it before: 5 motivated men with 10/22s in the top 50 major cities in the US could bring this nation to its knees in one night.)' is going a little far don't you? Doing the math that's 10 major U.S. cities per man, in a single evening, including travel time, picking out targets, not getting caught - is a feat which I would label impossible. It would take more than a few minorities with some raggedy AK47's to bring down such a mighty nation, I think the American people have greater fortitude than to simply give in, secede from the union, overthrow the government and hope for the best while 'doing it on their own'. No sir, not going to happen. The reason the United States went through a breakdown with states seceding in the early years is because we had an unstable, ill-defined and poorly held together government in the beginning with a severe lack in communication. We are now well beyond the early years, it will not happen again short of a nuclear holocaust and foreign invasion - ha. 'Turning off the lights' will incite riots, it will not destroy this nation. Let's all say it together - power outages do not equal civil war. |
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In order for civil war to break out you need disorder and hardship sufficient to motivate people to take up arms and a standard for those people to rally around. A large scale grid collapse wouldn't do that in and of itself, but the potential is there depending on the cause and the government reaction to it. Somebody mentioned economic collapse, and that is an issue where the potential exists. Eventually the current monetary system is going to fail, or generate so much malinvestment and disorder people will wish it would. If too much time passes before a solution is found, if it happens when the leadership is unpopular, or if the solution is unacceptable to too large a segment of the population armed rebellion could occur. When complex systems fail one thing tends to lead to another. Economic collapse leads to shortages leads to crime and unrest leads to infrastructure collapse leads to civil rights abridgement leads to resistance leads to polarization leads to war. It would take a LOT, but it's not impossible. Leadership is the deciding factor, without good leadership all sorts of horrors are possible, with it there's no reason to take up arms. More likely IMO is revolutionary political change as current institutions continue to fail to deliver and technology and social evolution makes alternatives more viable. Our political parties, social welfare and entitlement programs, media and propaganda organs, financial institutions, nearly everything is on the brink of momentous change, for good or ill. Technology has given us a global marketplace for goods, services and ideas, made all posessions liquid and given voice to everyone with an opinion. Our institutions have not yet adapted but they will or they'll die. |
I refer you to Montana's law clamining that "interstate commerce" does not apply to guns made in MT that stay in MT. Seccession isn't as far-fetched as you'd think. It isn'y likely, or probable, but it's definitely possible. If the economy does collapse, and the Feds take drastic action (banning the private ownership of gold again, price-fixing, arresting "hoarders", etc.) then it becomes much more likely. |
| I don't think so. It would take an event of ungodly porportions to set it in motion. If one or a few people stand up and say that the government has gone too far they are labled as crazy or a terrorists and the sheeple will not listen.It would have to be an immediate threat to everybody no matter race,location or beliefs.I agree it would be unrest rather than organized war, maybe a race war. It's hard to say people just don't have a spine anymore. I think that if it did get into motion nobody could stop it and it would destroy this country. |
I am not nearly as interested in this topic as you'd think for me to go looking up obscure laws about the transportation of firearms in and around Montana, i harbor no interest in diving through the interstate commerce act fine print to prove a point. Considering there's more cattle than people in montana, you guys wouldn't stand a chance anyway if we wanted to drag you back into the union against your own free will. That being said, i also never stated anything regarding the transportation of firearms (where the hell did you get that random topic?) If the Feds really wanted to take your weapons, by now they would already have them. I also never said secession wasn't possible, but i'm more likely to see Jesus himself walking down the street than i am a state of this nation leaving the union; i will leave it at that and move on. And yea, obviously if the government blatantly violated our constitutional rights we would have just as much a right in total upheaval of that government. But they aren't knocking on your door askin the gun hoarder for his SHTF stash, nor are they asking for your gold watches or anything else of that rediculous nature. So yes, it's possible to secede, yes a civil war is possible, but the liklihood of any of those fantasies taking place is as close to absolute zero as possible. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - How many years until.... (Page 1 of 2)
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