Posted: 2/17/2007 9:17:27 AM EDT
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I have a 1992 BMW 325i and last night I get into the car and press the clutch pedal down and it feels really weird and goes down with very little resistance until maybe an inch or two from the floor and then has resistance. It pops right back up like it should though. What is weird though is that the car will still start and when its off I can shift gears without the clutch pedal being pushed in. When the car is running though I can't shift gears. I looked under the car and there was a decent amount of fluid on the floor. I'm not sure what it is though. What do you guys think the problem is? |
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Sounds like either the slave or master cylinder for the clutch has gone bad. Your clutch is actuated hydraulically when you depress the clutch. However, the seals can go bad over time, which causes the fluid to leak out of the cylinder instead of disengaging the clutch. I had the same thing happen on my Mazda, and had to replace both over time. Its actually a pretty easy job if you have someone help. Did this develop suddenly? I know you stated there was fluid on the ground, so it might be something fairly severe. The first time I had it happened was when I noticed I couldn't change gears. I popped the hood, and noticed all the fluid was gone out of the reservoir. I picked up some Dot-9 fluid, filled the reservoir, and pumped the clutch until it firmed up and actually moved the clutch. That was actually several years before I finally changed out the cylinders. However, towards the end, it got to where I needed to add fluid quite regularly so I went ahead and fixed it. The parts shouldn't be all that expensive, depending on whether its the master or slave cylinder. |
I don't have bmw experience (yet ) but the systems are really simple. You should be able to get a kit to replace the seals for just a few bucks and its a simple job to fix it. One thing I saw happen on a toyota was that the piston seal was improperly installed and pinched between the metal piston and the cylinder wall. It worked until it wore through and crapped the bed like yours did. Check to make sure you see where the fluid leaks from in case something damaged the line, instead of assuming anything, but 99% its the cylinder. Also, it doesn't shift because the synchro's won't let you hit the gears, until you wear them out. Its as if you are trying to shift without using the clutch at all. Quit messing with it until you get it fixed. |
Alright yeah I'm pretty sure it's the slave cylinder. It didn't give me any warning signs of wearing out. It has been shifting and engaging perfectly until this morning. I got back in it and now the clutch pedal sticks to the floor too which I hear is another sign of it being the slave cylinder. This car has just been one problem after another. I think I will fix this and sell thing. Thanks for the replies! |
Most repair shops will suggest that you replace both cylinders (master and slave) at the same time. Sometimes, as the seals from the bad cylinder disintigrate, pieces of it get into the less-bad cylinder, causing it to also fail soon thereafter - and usually, if one fails, the other isn't too far from failing, anyway. Also, you get a price break on the labor for replacing both, since they've already got it disassembled to replace one of them. |
Slave cylinder leaking  (replace it, bleed it, carry on) Not sure where this "change master and slave at same time" is coming from....... Normally the clutch slave cylinder and the brake master cylinder are COMPLETELY different systems (although the argument could be made that the rubber seals in them might decay at a similar rate) |
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I had to replace mine at completely different times. The slave cylinder went first, and a little over a year later I had to change the master. Now, I doubt most mechanics will cut you much of a break on installation (at least not the mechanics I have dealt with). |
He's talking about the master CLUTCH cylinder, not the brakes. Hydraulic clutches have a master cylinder attached to the clutch pedal, just like a brake system. It's piped to the slave cylinder that's mounted on the transmission to engage/disengage the clutch. Where'd you get brakes from ? |
Now, here we have a difference in perspective: In my book, a master cylinder that fails just a year later represents extra down-time (and probably another trip to the shop) that could have easily been prevented a year earlier. Penny-wise, and pound-foolish.
Mine would. It's already up on the lift, the tension on the clutch spring has to be relieved anyway, the system has to be bled anyway, it has to be adjusted afterwards anyway...so bolting in one additional new part represents very little extra effort. |
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LMFAO all the experts have spoken just do what they tell you then when you’re tired of fucking with it bring it to a professional. This is from a master tech who owns an auto repair shop who also just about pissed himself laughing reading this thread.  All you really need is a $20 set of craftsman tools and advice from arf.com and you can repair anything. 
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Instead of acting like an arrogant, full of yourself know-it-all, maybe you could contribute something USEFUL to the thread, HELPING the guy, instead of shitting in it ???? Radical concept, I know...  If bad advice was given, pointing out something he probably SHOULDN'T do, instead of simply being an ass might be a good place to start, if everyone else here is so clueless.... Grow up..... Sheesh. |
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Forgive me for posting some good advice. I know I am just a dumbass who does this for a living and has no clue. I don't work for free do you? Plus with all the experts who have chimed in why should I? After all I am a dumbass who has spent over 20 yrs repairing cars and over 200K in equipment plus an easy 100K in my tool box because anybody can do it with a $20 set of tools. My shop over head is 10K a month but I know I am an asshole because I laugh at people who try to repair their car for free. I am glad that someone like you showed me the light on what a complete dipshit I am for spending 20 years of my life and several hundred K when anybody can do it with a $20 tool set. Not to mention when I tell people how to repair their cars for free it pays my bills and puts food on my table. It also pays my shop over head that is how I stay in business is by giving out my knowledge for free. Yeah I agree somebody needs to grow up but I doubt it's me.  |
Gonna have to go with JB69 on this one. People come here and ask for advice from their peers. It's like having a conversation with your neighbor. If you needed some info on welding, I wouldn't make a dick of myself by ridiculing you for not knowing how to weld. I wouldn't tell other people that they were stupid for giving their opinion either. Use your $600 Snap-On stick from ass removal tool and lighten up.
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+1...I don't mind giving advice on auto repair.....but when I see shit like "Auto mechanics are f-ing idiots" , Auto mechanics are just ripoffs" [in other threads today]....my only thoughts are Fuck you.....I ain't giving free advice any more. |
Thank you. If you don't want to give away your precious advice, just shut the fuck up and go click on another thread and stop shitting in this guy's. That's the beauty of having freedom of choice. Being a dick just to BE a dick solves nothing, helps no one, and only makes you look like exactly that. A dick. And you're looking like one right now..... |
I'm a Network Engineer, and I gladly help people with computer problems. Depending on the job, my billable rate is $165 - $210 an hour. I still help my fellow arfommers when I get a chance. I don't make fun of the people who say "update your antivirus and adaware/spybot" for every problem. You know why? Because that would make me a dick. If you have something helpful to say, or if somebody has given poor advice that needs to be addressed, then by all means chime in. I also wrench on my vehicles, and I take alot of pride in my work. I'm not a professional mechanic like yourself, but I am proud of the work I do. It's a shame that someone like yourself chooses to make fun of guys like me, instead of helping. I'm always yearning for information and I appreciate the knowledge you guys have. I'm eternally grateful when another professional imparts a little wisdom on me. What I don't like are guys that turn wrenches for a living, who arrogantly think I'm beneath them. 
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Simple solution... Don't give advice to THOSE people anymore. This guy asked for help. He didn't badmouth anybody. Why crucify him for the pisspoor manners of others ? I'm an Electrician. I get paid to do that. I *STILL* give out loads of electrical related advice here because I like to help people. I've been helped in the past and if I can, I like to do the same. Sure, there are some here who endlessly talk shit about building contractors, etc but that doesn't mean there aren't just as many others who truly DO appreciate it when someone offers to lend a hand. I don't do it because I expect EVERYONE here to change and stop bitching. I do it because *I* want to. It makes *ME* feel good. Shitting in another guy's thread, for no other reason than TO shit in it, and make yourself feel all superior is pathetic. I don't give a rat's ass HOW MUCH he has invested or how much he owns or how much he thinks of himself. A guy asked for help. If you (anyone) doesn't feel like offering any, then dont. Plain and simple. There's no reason at all to be a condescending douchebag and insult him or anyone else who genuinely wants to help. |
You are beneath me when it comes to auto repair just as I am beneath you when it comes to being a network engineer. Why is that so hard to understand. 
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Big +1 here. Part of the purpose of getting together in this forum is sharing ideas and knowledge to help others. |
What's hard to understand is why you're being an ass.  What's the problem? Is his slave cylinder bad? Clutch master cylinder? Surely SOMEBODY has given him some good advice so far, can't you just agree with one of them? You know, like "I'm a Master Mechanic with 20 years of experience, and I agree with this guy"? Anything? I had a problem with the light in my basement a couple weeks ago, and an electrician from Texas called me at home after reading my thread. I don't know SHIT about electrical, and he walked me through the whole thing, showed me how to troubleshoot the problem systematically with my DVM, and we got it fixed. I learned something new, and I met a really nice guy over the phone. He wasn't like you. 
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I don't know anything move along, The experts have spoken. I have a defective cystal ball and I cant diagnose the problem. To the original poster sorry for my advice I know nothing and you should listen to the experts in this thread. Sorry for the hijack.
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Where were you guys when I was asking for help in locating a mechanic? There I was saying "I'm terrified of letting other people work on my stuff, but my hands are tied. I don't have any time for the next few weeks". I REALLY wanted actual mechanics to chime in. And you know something? Like it or not, there ARE alot of shitheads in your profession that really have no business working on other people's cars. In fact, I bet you can think of a guy at work, who you wouldn't let touch your personal vehicle. Right? Well, so what? You're not all like that, and the people your're talking about are just angry with the service they got. Don't let it get you down. There are still plenty of us who want to hear what you have to say. 
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I hope a gunsmith tells you to fuck off when you ask an AR question.
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And how many threads do see here about how electricians are f-ing stupid..or just out there to rip folks off?. I've been a professional wrench for around 20 years...I have made an enormous investment in tools....My education is expensive and ongoing. All that and I get to listen to people bitch about what the repairs costs...or that I'm just ripping them off. I saw a thread here about which profession is least trustworthy. I wasn't dissapointed to see mechanics on that list. Heres an idea...lets pick a profession at random...and pound its practitioneers....c'mon it'll be fun. |
Whether you like it or not, more people get screwed by dishonest or incompetent mechanics than electricians. People get screwed by guys in my industry, too. It happens, and when it does, people bitch about it. Don't take it personally. Cops get it worse on this board than all of us. You on the other hand, are probably a GREAT mechanic. Why not use this as an opportunity to help someone? In all the time we've spent bickering, a professional like yourself could have given some helpful advice. We're on a gun board, and we LOVE to complain about gunsmiths and dealers. Yet, gunsmiths and dealers still help other members out. You guys have an excellent opportunity here to spread some goodwill and help a brother out, and you're pissing it away. |
He is referring to the clutch master cylinder. Without a master, there would be no slave... The slave cylinder is bolted to the side of the transmission and the actuator rod pushes against the clutch fork. The clutch master cylinder has a rod attached to the clutch pedal arm and when you push in on the clutch, the rod forces a piston which pushes fluid (brake fluid typically) into the slave cylinder forcing the piston to push the actuator rod. It is really a simple system. In some ways easier than hydraulic brakes. I would recommend replacing both at once. You can do it yourself. It is really easy. Buy the kit, follow the instructions and in about an hour you will be driving again. The hardest part will be pre-bleeding the master cylinder. You can do that in 5 minutes. disconnect hose from old master cylinder, 2 bolts mount it to the fire wall, bolt up pre bled new master cylinder. connect hose. Crawl underneath, disconnect hose, unbolt, remove actuator rod, insert into new slave (if removeable on that particular model, some you don't need to do that) bolt on the new one, connect hose top off fluid and bleed system. Viola, you are done....(go ahead and replace hose while you are at it if not a total pain in the arse routing...) Also, to check which it is, if the bottom of the master cylinder is wet,, that is it. If the puddle is practically centered (8-14" off center) of the car, then it is the slave. You will have about a 2' difference in center of the puddle depending on which is leaking... |
Where was I when you asked for a auto tech? Well first off I am in CO so I could not help you. As far as shitheads in my profession pick one that don't have them. I own my shop and will not allow any shitheads to ruin my business I run it straight up and never fuck anybody. I have nothing to say I am a dumbass who is going to stick my snapon $600 stick up my ass as stated above. This is my last post in this thread and I wish the best for the original poster. |
When one gets painted with the wide brush a few times....one gets defensive. For the record..I am honest and ethical, Yeah...sometimes I have a bad day...It doesn't mean I tried to damage or misdiagnose or rip you off.....I'm human..working on incredibly sophisticated automotive systems. |
Ya, I know.  But look - this guy needs some help, and he doesn't live in WA. Surely you can appreciate that some of us like working on our own stuff, right? I do it because I enjoy it. I make WAY MORE than enough money to pay somebody to do everything for me, but I still choose to work on everything myself. Heck, sometimes it costs me more because of the tools I end up buying (I just picked up a meter/o-scope that does datalogging). Heck, I make more than enough money to just keep buying new cars with warranties. But I don't. I like wrenching. It's a nice alternative to being a techie geek all day. I treasure the knowledge I glean from threads where experienced mechanics chime in. That stuff is gold to me. It saddens me when I see guys who can help essentially saying "you're on your own, and I refuse to help you". Has anybody in this thread given a satisfactory answer? |
How about these threads all you have to do is go to autozone and get the codes pulled for free. Don't pay those dumbass auto techs the money to diagnose your car when autozone will do it for free. "Incredibly sophisticated" That is an understatement but don't tell the others after all any dumbass can just pull codes and it will tell you what is wrong with the vehicle. I am with you brother fuck all the assholes that think it is so easy. If it is so easy STFU and do it yourself and don't ask for my help. |
So CORRECT them. Help them. This guy has a thread title "Auto experts I need help". Auto experts - that's you. This guy hasn't said a damn thing wrong to you, and all you want to do is bitch about what other assholes say. This guy isn't one of those assholes. He would LOVE some good advice from a guy like you, I'd bet. Has anyone given a decent answer in this thread, or has every reply been 100% wrong and completely off the mark? |
The op got a reasonable diag.....I would have said slave and master...not overly difficult to do on a Bimmer....but thats just from my perpective....I don't consider headgaskets on a Toy 3L to be all that difficult. eta To the OP...my apologies for hijacking your thread. to the folks who think techs are only working to screw people...bite me.
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I'd recommend you replace both of them. They are most likely the same age and have been sharing the same fluid, possibly exchanging contaminants with each other. This job can go two ways. If it has an external slave cylinder it can be done in just a few hours. The slave cylinder is mounted on the side of the bellhousing and operates a lever that actuates the clutch. If it is an internal slave cylinder the transmission must be removed to replace it. This will cost a good bit more. If you like the car you should have them replace the clutch while they are there. (unless you've had it done in the last 30,000 miles) They are going to be right there. It'll only cost you another half hour or so of labor. If you do have the clutch replaced have them use a new clutch, do not let them put a rebuilt clutch in your car. I've had some problems with rebuilt. |
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Real OEM diagram. Clutch system in the E36:  #1 is the Master, #14 is the slave. Here is the Bentley manual..... |
I got "brakes" from not knowing where master\slave was coming from I've never worked on a vehicle with more than a single slave cylinder mounted on the transmission I've never worked on a clutch with more than a single hydraulic reservoir(slave cylinder) Maybe my knowledge\experience is outdated or maybe I need to check a manual before speaking in the future I've written down his make and model and will try to get by the shop to look up his particular system just to see if it actually has both master AND slave reservoirs ETA: Went to the shop and checked the manual for that car That vehicle has both slave and master cylinders, I was wrong
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| You need a slave cylinder. It bolts to the drivers side of the bell housing/trans. It is held on by two nuts, both 13mm. It will be a bitch to bleed and will require two people. Keep the brake resivor full, Do not let it get low. Let it free bleed (open the bleeder and let it flow) for a while. Then do the pump the shit out of it, hold the pedal down and open the bleeder deal. Good luck! |
I've always bled clutches differently than brakes. Take the cap off the master cylinder reservoir and leave it off, pump the hell out of the pedal until air bubbles stop coming up, topping off the fluid as necessary. Takes no time at all, and works for me. |
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