Posted: 2/15/2007 5:32:04 AM EDT
| I have a small generator for emergency power. We lost power for a while due to an ice storm and I ran extension cords from the unit to the various stuff we wanted to power. It worked okay but I was hoping to make things easier for us the next time, particularly if my wife is my herself with the kids when it happens. Without getting a transfer switch installed on our fuse box, is there a way to safely hook into the house to provide power? Particularly to power the hot water tank? A friend told me I could make a male/male cord and plug it into an outlet in my garage, then control where the power goes with my fuse box. Is this safe and doable? He said I have to pull the main fuse first so I don't send power out to the neighborhood. |
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Without a transfer? NO! First of all, your provider will probably DISCONNECT you because of problems with BACKFEEDING which can KILL linemen. Please PAY a LICENSED and BONDED electrician to INSTALL the proper equipment. And for an electric water heater, you need at least 10 KW 240 V generator if the water heater is a single element 4500 W unit. That is a good sized set, requiring a 20 Hp gas engine or ~15 Hp diesel. |
Your friend is correct. It's called back feeding. Run your power through a 220 outlet such as for a clothes dryer. First turn off your main breaker and leave it off as long as you will be using the genny. Turn off all other breakers except the breaker for the 220 outlet that you will be feeding through (this will be your auxiliary main breaker). Turn on the breakers for the items that you will be feeding power to. Do not turn on your main breaker until your have shut down your genny and un plugged it. You can also have a 220 outlet with a breaker ran to your garage or whatever point that the genny will be working from. Same deal applies for the household main breaker though. As long as it's off, your power will stay in house. You will need a sizable genny to run an electric water heater. |
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A small genny isn't going to run your hot water heater. Keith, are you sure that the heating element uses that much power, I assume you are talking about start up? I know it takes a lot to start an ac compressor, but a hot water heater? I would think it would draw the 4500 watts and no more. Although I have never tried because I know it would be a huge power draw from a genny. An example is we have an off the grid camp. We converted everything to propane. Furnace, water heater, fireplace, stove, and refrigerator. We still bought a 20kw [it might be a 25kw] diesel generator to start up and run the AC unit. |
+1 If you have to ask this question the way you did you have no business messing with it! Yes it's doable for people with a fair amount of previous knowledge, respect and caution. It's not much different than asking if you can reload cartridges using a vise and a light hammer, IMO. |
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I'm SOL then for powering our two element hot water tank. My generator peaks at 5000w. I guess it would make things easier for powering the refrigerators (one at a time) through the house wiring since I have to pull them away from the walls to hook-up to them. I could also select a circuit or two for some lights or the TV in whatever room will be staying in. Would I be okay just using a garage 110 outlet for those duties with a male/male 14 AWG cord or do I need to get a beefier one? Or should I just have an electrician install a 220 outlet in my garage to run power into the fuse box? |
I did reload cartridges a few years ago. Does that help? |
Yes, 4500 W is common for water heaters. A 30 gallon has one element. To heat a 40 gallon takes about 12 kW*H (12,000 Watts for one hour). Using a 4500 W element would take almost 3 hours! This is assuming a 50 F rise. Woe be you if the water is entering at 35F . |
And it is probably only 120V too. The only water heater would be a 5 gallon under sink type as these are ~1500 W, 120 V. Get propane. It is twice the cost per therm as natural gas but still cheaper than electricity at 7 times the cost of natural gas per therm (100,000 BTU equivalent) |
Sounds like the majority is steering me in that direction which is probably what I'll do. From the responses, I think some people are envisioning me standing in my garage with my laptop and satellite uplink to ARF.com, with the cords in my hands, getting ready to electricute myself or blow-up my house! |
| The cheapest safe way I have seen it done was to install all weather outlet on the outside of the house wired to a breaker box and outlets right on the other side of the wall in the garage. that breaker box was not hooked to the grid. The guy then just uses cords from the garage to what he wants to run in the house. I think his heater and water heater were in the garage also. |
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I ran a dual element water heater on a 5KW generator during the Katrina power outage here. It worked just fine, It took almost exactly 30 minutes from a cold start. I could hear the generator unload, when the water thermostat kicked off. Since my generator was rated at 5KW, the water heater was ALL I ran during this time period. Backfeed has to be done on a 220 circuit, such as a dryer plug. While everyone here will agree that it is not the most desirable way to power your home, it does work well in a SHTF situation. If you backfeed, make a checklist in advance, stick it on your breaker box, and know WTF you are doing BEFOREHAND. |
No, not really. Not to sound too callous, but if you fry yourself and blow up your own house, oh well. See, the problem with transformers is they work no matter which way you run the voltage through them. They will step down voltage or STEP UP VOLTAGE depending on direction of flow. If you plug in your house to a generator and do not disconnect your house from the outside electrical service, you could fry the lineman's ass that is hanging from the pole 6 blocks away trying to fix your power outage. That is what most of us are envisioning. |
| I'm sorry that I sounded off as I did. Your question was phrased as if you had very little electrical knowledge and were venturing into an area where a novice shouldn't be going. I deal daily with people trying to install electronic products that can barely understand what + and - means and are barely competent to have a screwdriver in their hands. I'm sorry that I lumped you into that group. Occupational hazard, I guess. |
You weren't? Ohhhh.... I get it.......... you're using a PDA and AR15.com lite version. |
People that are able to handle firearms safely, " generally " have the same qualifications of learning how to backfeed power " safely " to their home. You would think, those who carry handguns with no " real " safeties, would be the first to realize that a little extra knowledge, and care, goes well beyond the sheeple mentality. " Baahh ... Baahh " ... |