Posted: 2/2/2007 6:01:26 AM EDT
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I'm looking for advice from some of you guys on a good martal arts program for my son. As the subject line says we are concidering Tae Kwan Do, we seem to have a good m. a. center in town. they offer a few styles such as Tang Soo Do,Hapkido,Judo, and Jujitsu as well Is there a huge difference in styles for beginners? He is 11 years old and a bit over weight. Any advice would be helpfull and appreciated |
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It is highly dependent on who is teaching and what their affliiation is. If it is an ATA TaeKwonDo school I'd run away. If it is a WTF affiliated school, it should be good for getting him into shape, as long as they are sport oriented. Why do you want him to start taking martial arts? |
For about 3 years now he has had an interest in all things oreintal weapons,cartoons,books.He said one time that he wanted to live in China or Japan when he turned 18. (i got a good chuckle out of that one) besides, he walks around the house mimicing m.a. moves. Plus the fact public schools phys.ed programs are non existint anymore. |
Exactly. Most Tae Kwon Do schools hand out belts like candy to keep kids happy and motivated to come back. It's for that reason that I think TKD is a joke. Try to find a Hapkido or Aikido school in the area. These arts are based on self defense instead of scoring "points" against an opponent and will actually teach your son some useful skills. |
they taught me plenty of useful skills. granted the kids could advance quicker than adults (that had two different systems when I was in) |
IMO, the ATA is one of the worst things that could have ever happened to Tae Kwon Do. Most ATA clubs I have seen are nothing more than babysitting establishments and aren't dedicated martial art establishments. When I was running my own program I was renting space from an ATA school and got to see their program every day. And dont even get me started on the kiddie black belt thing. |
Because it's a great way to keep fit, make friends, and learn how to kick the crap out of people.  Most places will let you join in on a class for free to see if you like it. Just make sure they don't give out belts like candy. |
I see but do you imagine it could have been different around 13-14 years ago. When I was in? |
Here is a link to their web page WWW.wmacusa.com I dont know if this is a wtf school or not. |
Of the stuff you listed, the Hapkido school might be a better fit for him. Hapkido schools typically incorporate some weapon work (typically cane, stick, and staff) into their programs. Some much of it all depends on who the people are actually affiliated with. The Judo program might be good also. If he progresses to a certain point, he could get the chance to go train at the Kodokan in Japan. |
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if you want your son to learn life skills, get in shape, learn self-decipline, and be able to effectively defend himself- then go with a boxing gym. Mixed Martial Arts is the best you could get for real world defense, but that's above his level now. i'd go with a good Mui Thai gym or a straight american Boxing gym. it has all the benefits of any Tae Kwon Do dicipline with the added benefit that it REALLY WORKS IN REAL LIFE SITUATIONS. i've done both, competed in both, and even taught TaeKwonDo before. Do him a favor and put him in boxing.... (Thai if at all possible) |
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That is a Tang Soo school and isnt WTF affiliated. You could takre him by there and see if he likes it. I did a quick search of schools in that town and found this place: Okinawan Karate 6379 Airlie Rd Warrenton, VA 20187 If it is a legit Okinawan school, they should have a heavy emphasis on weapons. The Sai, Bo, Oar, Tonfa, Yari, etc should be taught there. |
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When I was a kid I took Songham Tae Kwon Do. It was ATA (American TKD Assoc.) and it kept me very flexible and in shape, but I never learned any self defense. What I mean is that even at that age if I would have gotten in to a fight it would have been knuckles, not anything I learned there. So as said above, I'd avoid ATA unless you're just looking for a way to keep your son in shape, not really learn any defense/fighting skills. I got my 1st degree black belt in TKD and so did my sister and most of my friends. You get belts there a lot faster than other forms of MA, but it helps keep kids motivated. Not many 9-13 year olds would stay in if you only got a new belt every 2 years. I did, however, become pretty proficient with several weapons and learned a lot about pressure points, chokes, etc, but that was all in Black Belt Club outside of regular class. |
I actually thought about the American boxing. My uncle was Va. state champ in the 80's and he runs a school,but i dont like him or his values very much.Besides hes about an hour away. |
Doubt it. The catering to kids thing has been plaging the MA industry since around the mid to late 80s. Pretty much about the time "Karate Kid" became popular, Martial Arts in the US, pretty much as a whole, started a downward slide. |
O.K. Thanks for the advice i'll check that out. I do'nt want this to be a waste of time and would like him to actually learn some usefull ass kicking skills, he's a tough kid mentaly and physicaly. |
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I learned more in 3 months at the Straight Blast Gym (mixed martial arts) than in 10 years of TKD and Isshinryu (Okinawan Karate). And they had a kids program that looked just right for the little ones. I vote you find a good Thai boxing or Mixed Martial Arts kids program if they exist in your area. |
kickboxing w/m.m.a. would be awsome I think. I'll look for that as well like Chuck L.
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| I think a lot of people are losing sight of what the kid wants. If you put him in a program that you want and he doesnt, he isnt going to like it and will drop out/not excel. If he wants to learn about weapons and stuff, put him in a school that actually teaches that; not one that will just make him a badass. |
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Most kids programs hand out belts like candy. The better ones differentiate strongly between kids belts and adult belts. The school my son is in has tiny tiger belts from white to brown then the child graduates to little dragon yellow and works up to Little Dragon Brown which equates to a regular program yellow belt. even when a teenager earns his or her black belt ( a 2-3 day test with only a few hours sleep allowed), their belt is differentiated with a white stripe down the length of the belt and is confirmed when they reach adulthood through another test. Your child needs to understand that the colored belt system is a motivational device rather than a real symbol of accomplishment or capability. In Japan, there were no colored belts until the arts became more sport oriented. Traditional budo like Aikido, aikijujutsu, classical swordsmanship and weapon arts do not have belt rankings at all. There may be a kyu system...maybe, but often there isn't and the first "rank" a student attains is shodan, roughly equivalent to first degree black belt. Shodan, rather than symbolizing mastery, denotes a serious student, mastery isn't implied until the student reaches 5th dan (godan) and most serious budoka consider themselves students until the day they die. As for your son, Virtually any martial arts system can be good for him so long as the teacher is a thoughtful, decent human being and conscientious teacher. Egomaniacs and drill-sargeants do not make good sensei for children. Children's programs are really more about learning to learn, learning to control one-self and learning how to move with confidence. Watch several classes that your child would be attending and see what the teacher's style is like. Avoid commiting to long contracts unless you are absolutely certain your child will stick with it. If you sense negative changes in your child, a tendancy toward striking out without self-discipline, determine where it is coming from. I am a student of Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu iaijutsu and Kosho Shorei Ryu. I have also been exposed to a number of other styles. The most important thing I've seen in all of them is the attitude of the teacher. Good teachers build good students and effective art. |
I understand where you are comming from, however hes a strong 11 year old and knows how to inflict a lot of damage to persons already(thanks to me )and hes never hit anyone just to be mean. Only to protect himself a couple of times. Except he slightly injured his 14 year old brother when he secured an arm bar, after watching a U.F.C. fight. |
Very wise words. IME it is all about the teacher(s). In 10 minutes time you will be able to tell a lot about a prospective instructor. The instructors that I valued the most were very humble unassuming guys. |
Thanks for all the advice Icemanat, |
Absolutely. www.hapkido.com/images/Dr_T_naps.avi To meet Master West (the guy who DOESN'T get knocked out in the video), you would never think he was Special Forces in Vietnam and has killed people... up close and personally. He practically started Hapkido in the U.S. www.hapkido.com/index.html |
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TKD is an excelent starting point. One of the best. Easy to learn the basics, and good solid technique. Sure there are a million different arts out there, but TKD is one of the best places to start. IF a person learns TKD, and then jujitsu, they will be extreamly well rounded. |
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I did Shotokan for many years - it is a good traditional form of Japanese karate and is internationally standardized. It is a fairly no B.S. striking art - if you want to do Karate. However, if you want to learn how to fight I would go with the boxing, mui thai, wrestling, judo, jujitsu deal. Also, over the years I have come to similar conclusions as mentioned above - the teacher is more important in many (if not most) ways than the art you choose to practice. However, having children in Karate myself - you can't lose sight of the fact that you want your child to enjoy doing the martial art. When you are a kid I personally think that you want to err more on the side of the art than the martial - if you take my meaning. YMMV. Cheers. |
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No one has yet asked the most important question - What is your boy's doctrine of fighting? If he's a real agressive, go get 'em fighter, then I would suggest one of the striking arts. Tang Soo Do fits this style, and depending on the instructor, is a good fighting style for the real world. If he has a less aggressive type, then judo may work, and if he is the more passive, then Aikido or Aiki-jutsu may e better for him. In my very limited experience, personal fighting style needs to match the art's doctrine as much or even more so then the physical attirbutes. My son is a big and beefy kid, which on the surface, would cause one to think he should try one of the grappling arts. His personal fighting style is a very aggressive attack, and he will not retreat. He does very well in Tang Soo Do, due to the doctrine of aggessive punches and kicks. Judo would not hold the appeal for him, altho the moves are basically karate moves in reverse. It is also reassuring that he may not have an implement on him, but he is NEVER unarmed. I highly recommend MA, it does wonders for concentration and discipline. Ops |
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I'm 41 and go to an ATA school 3 nights a week. I can tell you from an adult standpoint anyway, that they are not handing out black belts like candy. I have personally seen people fail tests, including black belt rank tests(including a father/daughter team who failed their 1st degree decided black belt test at the same time). Also, we practice self defense all the time, including gun and knife defense, both armed and unarmed. We do ground defense as well. Self defense is part of the testing curriculum EVERY testing cycle. Weapons training is part of EVERY testing cycle. If the Master running the school has any pride at all, they are not giving away black belts. Any school is only as good as the guy or gal running it. |
Are you guys using the "Protech" material for your self-defense techniques? |
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BJJ, Judo and/or Muay Thai/Kickboxing-not the same thing, but better than TKD. Find a good Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu school with a good, reputable instructor. Most schools have kids classes, and will let you sit in and watch. Search the net for schools, onthemat.com has a school finder. So does www.graciebarra.com.br ----try to avoid the McDojos, the ones that have twenty-six different styles all taught by the same instructor. Sometimes the ones that teach just three or four styles are ok, but hard to find the good ones. This is what I train, and I wish I had these instead of TKD as a kid. If you're gonna get the little guy involved, do it right, otherwise he'll be doing it just to do it. These styles are excellent for self-discipline because of the trust you must have with the people you are rolling with. Also, he'll be in shape in no time! Just my $.02 |
Great big +1 If you want him to train for self-defense, look into Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and/or Muay Thai. |
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I spent about 4 years in an ATA school in my teens. It took me that long to reach 1st degree black belt. Some were big softies, but most of my instructors were fantastic. We did self defense, weapons training, lots of sparring, etc. I think the school is only as good as the instructors. |
I took Tang Soo Do for a few years wuth a step son who has adhd and was over weight. It was great and he loved it. I highly recommend TSD. Also it should be pointed out that Check Norris was a Tang Soo Do practitioner for a long time. 
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Discipline, goal setting, fitness; if that's what you're after for him then any good instructor (not school) will teach him that. Before he tries a class go with him to the various schools in your area. Watch a few classes at each school and see how the students and instructors conduct themselves. That will tell you where he should study, don't worry about the style. It's ALL about the instructor. There are plenty of TKD schools that teach actual SD fighting just like there are plenty of BJJ schools that don't teach a thing that's useful for SD. NO school can/will teach you how to be a fighter unless they're teaching you mindset over everything else. Any good school will teach him the discipline to avoid a fight if possible. It's a cliche but since I began studying MA back in college I've never come close to being in a fight. I've personally studied Okinawan Karate, Boxing, Muy Thai and some Judo. I've sparred regularly w/ kickboxers, TKD practioners and and students/practioners of all the arts I've studied. I used to fight full contact and was pretty good. I've got at least a bit of cred when it comes to this particular conversation. |
Not to discourage you, but most kids are like that. When I was younger, I wanted to be the next Bruce Lee. He'll probably grow out of it and move on to something else. Remember, never bring nunchucks to a gun fight  .In all seriousness, as another poster mentioned, I would start him out with Judo. It's a good foundation for learning throws, choke holds and evasive manuvours. A high school buddy of mine was in Judo and he was awesome. When it came time to do high school wrestling as part of PE, he kicked everyone's asses, even the guys on the wrestling team. |