[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Drug thread locked (Page 1 of 13)
Posted: 1/21/2007 9:29:43 PM EDT
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Although it digressed the wrong way, I want to say that I really don't care for the comment made at the end of it. "Pro drugs crap" is part of it. Forget the drug debate. Telling someone else that they way they wish to exercise their freedom--so long as it does NOT affect you, is wrong. Freedom simply cannot exist so long as anyone believes that they have the authority to tell someone else what is right and what is wrong (assuming they are not affecting anyone else). This issue is no different than machine gun bans, AWBs, any gun control issue, or socialism. The underlying idea is that someone else can make better decisions than you can about your own body. Anyone that believes that is totally insane. |
Yeah, they are called Doctors and they can make better decisions then you about the health of your body. Staying away from drugs is one of them. |
They can advise you. They dont have a police force and prison system forcing you to do what they say. Great comparison. 
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Nice ad hominem. I've never touched anything but alcohol. ETA: I'm not pro-drugs. I'm anti-wastes of government resources and restrictions on personal liberty. |
NO!! He said MAKE BETTER DECISIONS. I didnt say one thing about forcing. Read his wording. |
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People using illegal drugs affects all of us. Burglaries Purse snatches Armed robberies Counterfiet check writing Addiction Hospitalization Incarceration Death Car crashes If you fry your heart on crack or just have a heart attck I do not want to pay the ambulance ride or the hospitalization for you through higher taxes. If you fry your brain on drugs I do not want to support you for the rest of your life. Drugs affect us all. |
The logic behind arguments for criminalization can. But they hurt people? They have no "good" purpose! They cause crime! What am I talking about? guns or drugs? |
From the end of "the thread"
Just fucking sad.  You'd have to look really hard to find an American that won't admit that the prohibition on alcohol was a clusterfuck and made the actual consumption of booze less of an evil than the criminal enterprise it spawned, yet here we are locking down threads that suppose that the same is true of other drugs, some of them less harmful on the body and mind than alchohol. Hey, let's not debate it, or keep the discussion going....it's easier to just stick your fingers in your ears and trample the whole idea. Fucking disgraceful, in many ways. It's not really hard to understand how groups like the Taliban come to be, when you read some of the hypocritical, puritanical garbage people spew on this stie. I don't do drugs, in case you're wondering, freedom-haters. |
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Those crimes are committed by people, not substances. As far as I'm concerned a guy can drink sulphuric acid, and as long as he hurts no one but his self I could care less. That's one less idiot in the world. If a doped up person commits a crime they should get zero leniency, and be charged just like an individual that doesn't do drugs. NO EXCUSES! You shouldn't have to support them, no one should. Let 'em rot. |
Easy to say until a drug addict kills your family over some drug related issue. |
Ok, then whats your point? Wow, you found a hole in his logic but it means nothing. Congratulations! |
 What, like they have a bad deal with your family? |
Many on this board can't differientiate between anti-prohibition and pro-drug. 29 pages were wasted earlier with no result other than personal attacks and dozens of other CoC violations. Only 1 person was locked that I know of. Many more should have been though. |
Banning alcohol. Diddnt work. Banning guns. Hasn't worked either. Banning drugs. Created a shitstorm. Why can't we get it through peoples heads that when the .gov bans something, bad shit happens? |
HUH. Considering my comment wasnt even directed at you, you really got bent out of shape and seem irritable about it. Are you on drugs???????? FWIW, people are too stupid to make CORRECT decisions for themselves. I was just showing him that in fact there are people who can make better decisions about their body. |
Yeah I'm on drugs. I took a couple sudafeds about an hour ago.SOME people are too stupid to make correct decisions for themselves. It's not the .gov's job to dictate to people how to live their lives. What sort of conservative are you? You want the .gov to do all that for people? |
Not the point of the post but I will answer anyway. Do I think the .gov should tell you what to do? No, but in the case of drugs that affect many more then just the users then yes. Should the .gov fight drugs? Yes, if they save just one kid who is stuck in a crack house with parents that are dealing then its worth it. If the .gov doent dictate how people live their lives then we would just have a world of crime. Are you some sort of anarchist????? |
I think your position makes sense on paper. With the drugs we have now though, I think it's a reasonable limit on personal freedom to keep the country from going down the shitter when everyone becomes a crackhead. I don't doubt there are people out there who could do drugs like weed and still be productive citizens, there are surely lots of them doing that right now. But people stop making smart decisions when they start doing crack, meth and heroin and there's very few of them that ever recover. Drug addiction isn't freedom. ps - I have the same opinion on free trade. I think if you look at it as purely an academic matter, we should allow US companies to do business however they please and the government should stay out of it. However, if we someday end up in a war and we no longer have the ability to equip our own military because we don't have any industry in America anymore except for Starbucks, we're screwed. I think there should be limits on our freedoms in the interest of national security. I think drugs should be treated the same way. |
My god do it for the kids! I agree any parent caught dealing harmful substances, or leaving firearms unsafely secured around children should be prosecuted at the full extent of the law. But how are you going to enforce it? |
Let's see how many of these prohibitionists respond when the .gov comes for the guns (and they are coming). I suspect there will be a different tune sung. It will probably sound like a bunch of little pigs caught in a gate around here. |
You're right about that. Alot of drug abusers on this board. Every night there's someone proudly proclaiming their drunkeness and posting. You want to tell me that someone smoking a joint is as fucked up, or doing something as harmful to themselves or others as someone shitfaced?? Other than one being legal? That's the entire problem with drugs. One of the most dangerous, costly, destructive and messy drugs, ever, is perfectly legal while some that are mild in comparison will land you in prison at the worst or get ridiculed by idiots with a beer in their hand that they're drug-addicts. |
I'm a libertarian. If you ask Dave_A what that means, he'll tell you I'm an anarchist, but thats because he loves himself a big ole government. Alright, lemme lay it out for you. If you legalize drugs, the black market will disappear. Pot and cocaine will be sold like alcohol, with the same restrictions on purchasing/abusing/DUI. There will be no reason for drug dealers, trafficking, drug-related violence and the like. Why go to a shady drug dealer when its cheaper to buy it at the store? Now, using logic, how would decriminalization lead to a world of crime? And how is a kid living in a house infested by crack any different from a house with alcoholic parents? Oh, did I mention it would be taxed to high hell? |
I disagree. They'll bitch and moan about our guns being taken, but then if someone mentions drugs they'll have the same views. |
You're on the cusp, you've almost seen the light. Do you really think that if drugs were legalized the nation would just start doing crack? Why? What logical reason is there behind that? Do you think that people who want to use drugs don't already have access to them? When prohibition was repealed did the nation turn into a nation of alcoholics? Criminalization is NOT stopping anyone from doing drugs. |
I just wanted to say I really appreciate you taking the heat off of me lately. I was once known as a trouble maker. 
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Clearly you've never met wolfman87. 
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I agree with you on that. There's really nothing to argue about with pot, it's on the way to being legal in our lifetimes anyway. What about drugs like cocaine, meth, and heroin? |
The quote in red is exactly what some just can't wrap their mind around. There are already laws on the books in every state that address child neglect and abuse. The parents are responsible for their neglect/abuse. Today's society has to have a scapegoat for everything. IE: If anything isn't going well, it's someone/something else's fault. "I am not responsible for what I do." See also: Gobby ass fat people, unruly hellion kids, spilling hot coffee in one's lap, etc., etc..... |
Well said. |
What about it? People are going to abuse them whether or not theyre legal. Cocaine was legal up until the first half of the 20th century. Same thing with opiates. |
Yup. Most people are just fucking retarded. They can't wrap their heads around basic human freedom unless it's spelled out for them. To most people on this board, it seems that if it's not enumerated in the Constitution, you have no right to do it - as if the constitution (written by men) is all-inclusive. Make sex illegal, and I swear to god someone will say "But the constitution doesn't mention fucking." Morons. They love their freedom, and have no problem seeing others ability to choose for themselves taken away, providing it doesn't hit them where it hurts. Then, the same mouth breathers expect sympathy when someone wants to take away something they DO care about. |
You don't think more people drank after prohibition? When the commercial brewers and distillers opened again and started cranking out product mass production style, you think more people didn't drink? |
No, no I dont. It was readily available in speakeasies and bathtub distilleries. The commercial operations opened up again, it simply put the underground economies out of commission. Same thing would happen to the black market for drugs. |
I think Neal Boortz said it best. "Nooo, I dont want to be THAT free!" |
Murder certainly doesn't stop happening because it's against the law, but do you think people would be more apt to do it if there was no consequence? If you could go down to the corner liquor store and buy drugs and there was no legal consequence for it, more people would do drugs. Those drugs like crack and meth and heroin screw people up so bad they can no longer make wise decisions about doing them. If more people try them, more people will be addicted to them. I can clearly see your case for personal freedom. It's just that it's not freedom anymore if you're no longer able to say no because of an addiction. Why do you think those drugs are illegal in Amsterdam? |
What about them? What about gasoline or correction fluid? People rot their brains huffing gas every day, do we ban gasoline and white-out??? How about we just zealously prosecute the crime people DO commit when on drugs, instead of criminalizing whatever it was that made them nutty to begin with? That way, it's a simple world. Do whatever you want to yourself, but if you fuck up on hard drugs, then you're double-fucked. Seems easier than a futile attempt to regulate anything that takes us out of our heads, and breeds a crushing violent criminal underworld that need not exist. There's simply no way legalization can be worse than the WOD. I can get drugs easier than I can get a prostitute, both of which are illegal, btw. How is the war being won? Other than wasting time and making criminals on both sides? It's futile, it's costly, it's having the adverse effect. Education, good parenting, people learning to make good choices is what will keep drugs from fucking up the country, not useless legislation. Think about it. Why are there sober people? I mean, booze is everywhere, legal and flowing like water, yet millions upon millions don't touch the stuff. Why? If legalization will make everyone a drugged out mess, and fuck up the world, why hasn't legal alcohol ruined the country? That's EXACTLY what prohibitionists predicted when the law was repealed, and it didn't happen, not even a little. |
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Don't go mixing up your natural law and your man-made law. Murder will always in every situation be wrong, immoral, illegal. It has no comparison to an activity such as doing black tar heroin in your own home that does not harm any other person.
People know they are bad for them. Back when those drugs were legal, did society fall apart? These drugs havent been illegal forever, and when they were legal, society diddn't fall apart. ETA: Check swingsets post above, well said. |
If you think there's no difference between alcohol and drugs like crack or meth then there's nothing more to talk about. |
Your logic-foo is weak. You said if theyre legal, more people will use them and become addicted. We showed that when another drug was legalized, your prediction did not come true. It doesnt matter if the drugs are the same, the syllogism still holds. |
The logic falls apart when the drug changes. Do you know of any casual crack smokers? Have you ever heard of anyone doing meth for a while and then stopping because they took up some other hobby like rollerblading? Your logic is certainly sound, and I know that people can be addicted to alcohol. But meth and crack and other hard drugs are a far cry from booze. I have a friend that did some work for a doctor. They were talking and somehow got on the subject of pain killers. This doc told my friend that he should never take Oxycontin even if it was prescribed to him. He said he used to prescribe it but everyone he wrote it for became addicted. Freedom has nothing to do with it. It's chemical. If it's legal more people will try it. If you could buy claymores at the local fun store, would you? I bet you'd have some fun with them and nobody would get hurt. Do you think some idiots would get killed? I do. I think some innocent people would get killed. And I don't think they would have had the chance to get killed if they weren't legal. We can go on and on about it, but it comes down to this. I don't think most people have their shit together enough to handle it. I think with some of these drugs, it doesn't matter how much of your shit you have together anyway. |