[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Ask a PI...... (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 1/18/2007 7:18:09 AM EDT
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Answering any Private Investigator questions. I am also retired LEO, but sherrick13 already has a great thread going at Ask A Cop... and Private Investigations has little to do with Law Enforcement so I'm going to leave those questions to him. I've been trained in TSCM (Technical Security Counter Measures), Wiretaps, Audio/Video Surveillance, Mobile Surveillance, Methods of Entry, Missing Persons, etc. and now am a managing partner in a licensed Private Investigation Agency that my partners and I founded before my retirement. This may end up being the shortest thread in the history of ARFCOM, but I'm ice-bound in Tulsa right now, with the mother-of-all head colds, waiting for the thaw before I can get back to work. Any questions? |
We do mostly corporate investigations now, insurance companies, due diligence for acquisitions, employment problems, employment terminations (some bosses just don't like having to fire people) Intellectual Property problems, etc. We have done matrimonial (Domestic) investigations too, but there are other agencies out there that specialize in Domestics and do nothing but them. It's better to choose an agency that specializes in the field you need. You don't go to a brain surgeon for a colonoscopy. |
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I've got a real one; my aunt died/was killed/ we don't know in a bizzare incident where a Cessna exploded on a runway in Alabama. I won't go into all the details, but my uncle (her brother) hired an attorney and a PI. Both told family that there was possible orginized crime involvement and refused to help anymore. In fact, no-one has even seen a death certificate. I'm not asking for any help or advise really; I'm just curious if anything like this has ever happened in your career? "I'm not touching that one" kinda thing. Those kinda stories fascinate me  So...let's here 'em  Speed |
Alrighty. I guess I never knew there were different specialties of PIs. Cool. 
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Not much, by legal definition. We don't get slapped with "Stalking" charges like a jilted spouse would get if they were caught following their ex all over town. We only have "Citizen's Arrest" authority like any other citizen. WE DO however get a LOT of arrests for things like Insurance Fraud, but we just hand over our case file, or even sometimes file the Affidavit just like LEO, and then accompany a commissioned LEO to the arrest fo identification of the suspect. We don't get our hands dirty with the actual arrest and booking (I'm getting too old for that stuff anyway.) |
Oh damn, I knew you were going to go there... Our posted rates are $75-$100 per hour for standard investigations. Corporate rates are $65 per hour if the client sends us over $100k per year in billable hours. Extra for speciliazed equipment (AVCOM RF SPectrum Analyzers cost big time, so do Time-Domain Reflectometers needed for telephone sweeps, covert GPS units for vehicle tracking) In summary, if I'd known there was this much money in it, I'd have retired sooner. I'm doing taxes right now too with my CPA, it looks like I'm in for a helluva payment come April 15th (I'll be paying more in taxes this year than I made in my first year as a rookie) |
How can one get started? Do you have to work as a intern before you can start your own pi business? |
I heard of a guy who only charges $200/day + expenses.
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We've got LOTS of nice cameras  including the new Hi-Def units. Everything we have is now digital with AVID editing equipment at the office.I CCW (Armed PI) by nature anyway, but I do still wear a vest sometimes. Funny, I've never had to draw-down relative to an investigation. But I've had to draw my weapon twice as a PI just because some non-involved assholes tried to mug me while I was on surveillance. |
It varies from state to state. Some give you the body cavity search, while in CO, for example, you don't even need a license. |
I'm glad someone asked that...NO, police training DOES NOT HELP (much) in this field. Investigators "Observe and Report" and we do not enforce laws. We can teach Bubbles The Chimp to operate a camera. Good, clear, concise communication skills are MOST IMPORTANT! No offense to LEO's, we're just not in that business. Requirements vary from state to state. In Oklahoma, the Council on Law Enforcement Education and Training (CLEET) handles the supervision and requirements. You can find most of the necessary classes at any state Vo-Tech. After that, it does help if you can specialize in a particular area but you have to seek out that training in other places. |
Thanks for the reply! jim |
So far, we have not had any cases that we turned down because they were "Too Much" including one case where we got videotape of a Lt. Governor playing kissy-face with one of their staff a few years ago (Sherrick, you probably know what I'm talking about.) In your personal case, I'd be looking for a report from the National Transportation Safety Board or the FAA before I did anything else. Death Certificates are usually availabel from your state's health department. After that, I'd just keep looking. |
Not in Oklahoma any more. CLEET used to require 1 year with a licensed agency but they rescinded that rule back in 1996 IIRC. I would however recommend at least one year with a GOOD licensed agency before trying it on your own. If not, you're swimming with sharks. You'll never get to play with the Big Boys (corporate, attorneys, etc) unless you make a name for yourself and start getting recognized down at the court house. ALSO, uneducated, you will be a wailking litigation target. Most people you'll be dealing with already have a lawyer, they're already pissed-off, and they'd like nothing more to sue the bastard that caused them so much trouble. (ie: YOU) |
About 20 years ago...  Now, it's closer to $1,000/day.
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Wait till WalMart opens their PI service in the new supercenter...... 
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Magnum, PEI. Magnum PEI video PEI is a small province in Canada known for growing potatoes.
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FL has a 2 year internship, which last i heard, had to be served under the same "mentor" there have been issues with interns getting canned at 23 months, leaving them SOL also, a buddy's dad runs an agency in palm beach county and charges WAY more than $$$ already mentioned |
I am a PI also, as well a a licensed manager in Texas. If pale_pony does not mind help with this thread, I can pitch in. |
Adoption records are very difficult, even with a court order. Also, the $1,500 retainer sounds a little low for these kinds of cases. In almost EVERY domestic missing person case I've worked (lost highschool sweetheart, bio-parents, etc) I've worked, the client wished they had not done it after it is all said and done. If their bio-parents gave them up , chances are good that they are a better person now than they would have been if they had NOT been adopted. Also, a PI always needs to know WHY someone is looking for someone else, and THEN do some background on their client to make sure that there is not some bad history between the client and the subject. I know of a (stupid) PI here in Tulsa who found a client's "Long Lost Highschool Sweetheart" for them and then later found out that he had just tracked down the client's ex-wife who was hidnig from him. The PI first heard about the reunion on the 6 o'clock news when he saw that his client had met with the subject and put 7 smoking holes in her in the covered parking garage at a downtown office building where she worked. That PI got sued into oblivion and is now working as a minimum wage security guard in a low-income subsidized housing project. 
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hire me? |
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seriously, i have wanted or considered becoming a PI for awhile. I requested some packets here in FL but they require a internship with a current agency. I would love to get in somewhere to learn the ropes. As far as optics and cameras go....I currently work as a visual effects compositor and editor. I enjoy optics as well as shooting video and pictures. Live in florida now but grew up south of chicago where I learned a great deal of "street smarts" |
Wal-Mart already has an endless list of tools, in every state, who are willing to work for peanuts. We used to do a LOT of work for their W/C center in Bartlesville, OK but we got tired of having our invoices sent back half-paid (or worse) with nothing more than a shrug, a dumb look, and "That's the Wal-Mart Way..." when you demand full payment. We dumped them as a client when gas hit $2 a gallon a few years back, and they didn't want to pay mileage. They have more than enough low-esteemed whores who are more than willling to take it up the arse just to stay in business. We don't need their business that badly. |
OUCH!!! You heard right...sad to say. I know Ray Jarvis personnally and have known him for many, many years. I have the HIGHEST RESPECT for Ray and he has even been somewhat of a couseling father to me on more than one occassion. The man is a former FOR REAL Operator and did several tours in Vietnam. He has forgotten more about ECM (TSCM) than I will ever know. That being said, he's getting on in years and has been looking to retire for some time. A lot of their technology is still stuck in 1979 too. And while I like one of his kids(his son and one of their co-owners) IMHO, his other son is one of the biggest lazy hacks in the industry. The day Ray passes will be a sad day for us all, and I believe that their company will fold that same day. You might check with www.TacticalElectronics.com. Tim Thornton and Ben Kimbro are the real-deal, but I'm not sure if they're teaching civvie classes any more. I have had the pleasure to work with Tim on more than one occassion, including the Murrah attack in OKC, and THANK GOD HE's ON OUR SIDE!!! If Tim ever turned to the dark side, well...Tim McVeigh would still be loose and unideitified and everything within OKC's city limits would be ashes. They got roped into a .gov contract back in 2002 and have been pretty busy ever since. Edited to add: For any would-be spies out there, check out Martin Kaiser Electronics for several days of good reading. Marty is a legend in the industry and even went head-to-head against J. Edgar Hoover AND WON. Marty was the inspiration for the movie "Enemy of The State" and it has even been said that Gene Hackman studied under him in preparation for that same role. Marty was also a technical advisor, named in the movie credits. He had a bit-part cameo in the movie but I think it ended up on the cutting-room floor. |
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TSCM is something that I considered getting into since I have some electronics and telecom background as well as security background, but I couldn't really justify the huge expense in training and equipment. The scarcity of respected free market training is another stumbling block. I had considered at one time putting in an application with a .gov service that was hiring people for their technical services bureau, but it would have been like becoming a private all over again.
I recently read his book. A very interesting story. |
Also, check out Saul Mineroff, he's another cold-war legend and I am proud to be able to say that I know the man too.
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Sorry, I never watched any of them. I always though Higgins was gay. I do enjoy a good Mickey Spilane or Mike Hammer mystery. Jake Giddens was a good character too. I always liked the 1940's - 1950's fedora-wearing gum-shoe novels where they talked over the movie. |
Yeah, me too. But I couldn't recall any of their screen names and just had to be a wise guy with the best names I could conjure up
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I would be interested in hearing about the reqs for PI license in TX as well as any other advice, recommended training, etc. Thanks |
In a word...YES!!! Currently, we use a guy named S. Forsythe here in Tulsa. More and more cases are becoming matters of "Intellectual Property". Most people working in Research and Development tend to think that whatever project they are working on belongs to THEM and NOT to their employer, so all sorts of data ends up being copied either directly or indirectly to their files. We have clients that do all of their programming on isolated CPU's that had no connection to the outside and cannot be copied from, except by their IT departments in order to back-up the data. More importantly, lots of employees with internet access use their company's computers to communicate with their "Match.Com" playmates, download porn, and even just plain goof-off when they should be working (and not surfing ARF.COM) Most recently, we have a client who does R&D work in the petroleum industry (EVERYTHING in Tulsa is somehow involved in petro it seems.) They hired a new >$120k year engineer who was just going great gangbusters and making leap-and-bounds with their proprietary developments...then they found out that he was pulling all of his numbers out of his ass. He was coming to work each morning, locking himself in his office, surfing porn sites and jerking-off <figuratively and literally> and then plugging numbers into his spread sheets to make it look like he was going to make every stockholder a millionaire by next year. The client found out he was a hack and about had a panic attack. Release of this information would have caused their recently-issued IPO to fall through the floor. We had to get a Computer Forensics expert to dissect his machines for proof. We then were asked to be present for his termination proceedings and to escort him from the building while IT was locking out his passwords and clearing his offices. Currently, we don't do enough business to hire a person full-time to do forensic work but we sure outsource a lot of it. If I were you, I'd get out the yellow pages and call every PI listed to arrange an appointment for a presentation. You start out by wearing out a lot of shoe leather when you start in this business. |