Posted: 1/5/2007 11:05:18 PM EDT
|
I have read a number of threads here that talk about local cops responding to terrorists, arming teachers, etc. I think this is very very dumb and unrealistic. First of all, it would take a lot of training and mindset adjustment to get the average teacher to serve as in impromptu bodyguard for a bunch of children. I don't see it as a realistic idea. Second, I have hung around with a LOT of townie cops here on the east coast (i used to be a construction inspector) and let me tell you that there some entire police departments made up of and led by barney fifes. We're talking about guys who literally came right out and said that they never did anything except broke up domestic squabbles, never had anything to do except direct traffic. One time a guy told me he hated even carrying a gun and did not want the responsibility. "People expect me to use it in case of a crime being committed". He actually said that. No kidding. After he left all the construction workers present literally fell on the ground laughing. This is not a teacher or cop bashing thread, but I just cannot picture the vice principal of John C. Muncy Elementry School in Pleasantville, PA with an AR in his hands airing out a bunch of fanatical muslim assholes while Barney Fife crouches down behind his shot up squad car with a M79 blooper. It's not going to happen. There is aways a big gap between theory and reality. |
|
I fully agree. I find it absolutely stunning that people can see the .gov's work with the TSA and expect them to do a good job protecting their kids. The .gov cannot protect you. Neither can the police. That's why you have an AR or an AK and enough ammo to make a fort out of the cans. Why do you shift your logic and assume that the .gov can protect or even educate your children? Because homeschooling means one of the parents has to stay home, or work nights. That means less money and less convenience. So if your kids aren't worth your money or time, why should they be worth my tax dollars? |
|
It depends on the event...you can't classify all terrorist acts in one simple sentence. Are you talking about an active shooter event? A suicide bomber? A chem/bio attack? A kidnap? All are different and all require a different response. Local PD is the best response for an active shooter event and with training, and suicide bomber but the the FD will handle chem bio..now what if they are combined? You need people who can do all of the above. NYPD has the answer in their ESU. ESU can do all of the above and do it well. Don't give the tangos too much credit, 99% of what they do isn't rocket science. On another note, it also depends on which PD we are talking about....depts that put money and time into their officers tend to be very very good...those that decry the evil black clad SWAT teams tend to get crappy police forces. You get what you pay for. |
Preach it, brother!  NMSight |
|
All front line LEO's should be trained in Active Shooter drills. This is not going to make them Delta commandos. It will give them the ability to better handle the situation. A very good article by Mas Ayoob on this very subject. |
The article seems to suggest that the most effective way to combat terrorism in schools and public places is to have a well trained and armed citizenry. He makes a point that the terrorists will strike wherever the police AREN'T, which would mean citizens would be the first responders. |
Can we now say "Our very own Mas Ayoob"? 
|
Did he ever post anywhere besides that one thread? |
|
There are programs that guide local responders to quickly getting the proper assets in place, should events occur. A small department (police, fire or EMS) may not have on hand the required personnel or equipment, but are learning now both what is available and where to get it. It will not be enough to prevent the isolated attack (not sure that anything is), but is considerably improved over days past. |
|
You can't stereotype all small town police as Barney Fife's My small town North East police dept. has actually run Terrorism drills in the school, with kids volunteering to play victims, and inter-agency coordination with the FBI and other Federal agencies. They were in the school with AR's to address a threat, set up roadblocks all over town, etc... They learned alot about inter-agency communication and what needed improvements equipment and tactics wise. |
|
God forbid anyhting ever happens in SD because all we have here is a bunch of cops that are expierienced in running down meth cookers and drunk drivers. the closest our cops have ever gotten to a real gun battle was wounded knee thing and that was what, teh 70s? I think the citiczenry would provide a good base of early response, but it would limited in scope. SW |
|
Well, it's just like this: There aren't enough cops available nor can most juridictions afford to hire enough to be able to provide the type of security needed to prevent a terror attack against a school. There's just no way we can come up with that sort of manpower and still be able to have cops doing normal police duties, patrolling and answering calls. The military isn't an option so there isn't even much point in mentioning that. That leaves two other possible groups....citizen volunteers who would be forced to undergo training or the teachers themselves, who would also need to undergo firearms training. These are your only choices. So, do you take the citizen volunteers, who will all likely be older, retired people? Or do you arm and train the teachers? While obviously a SWAT team or high speed military unit would be better suited to such a task, there's no way you are going to get that. So you can either arm the teachers (like we did our pilots) and train them in the safe use and operation of said weapon. Or you leave the public schools wide open with nothing remotely resembling security and with no means to stop an attack by just a single armed person. I think I'd take my chance with an armed and trained teacher over nothing at all. It's about the best we can do. Otherwise, the only other alternative is to have one parent quit their job and stay home with the kids to homeschool them. |
|
My wife always claims the schools she teaches at are "secure" because the doors are locked and they have alarms. I visited one time and told her it would take me about two seconds to make her "secure school" into swiss cheese. The "locked doors" are made of a frame with a full length sheet of glass. tempered glass. That will shatter when you whack it with a center punch. Imagine what a 12 gauge would do. thier security system, while elaborate, could be negated by simply knocking out the power. they have no backup generator. All the doors to the classrooms have this neat pane of glass in the frames right next to the door knobs. can anyone say crowbar and kevlar glove? When i asked her to mention some of these glaring weaknesses she told me that the school board made clear to her before they hired her that anything said about holes in secuirty could result in her termination. SW |
|
I think the quality of individual police officers varies so greatly in the United States that one can't really make any assumptions about how effectively they will respond to a serious terrorist incident. Individual police officer quality probably has a greater variance than virtually any other occupation. |
I agree but America is so vastly different than Israel comparing their populace to ours is apples vs oranges. The Israelis KNOW how to fight. Americans don't. |
Anyone bother to ask this shmo why he became a cop then if he didn't want to carry a gun and handle the responsibilities thereof? |
i could tell you stories about that particular bunch of dorks that you simply would not believe. one of them told me his 357 would push a guy 6 feet backwards (because of the recoil) while firing prone. some hot loads, eh? another said that they cleared out bar brawls in france by firing machine guns into the bar the guy with the red hot 357 said he cleaned his stainless guns right in the dishwasher. yup, stick em right in there. one of them very seriously questioned me why i wore sunglasses all the time. hmmm.... let's see: bright sun? heroin addiction? on lam from the law?? all three? it was hilarious. |