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Posted: 9/17/2001 5:45:33 PM EDT
In light of last Tuesdays tragedy, a couple of inflammatory comments were posted to the RATM.com message boards (doubtlessly a twisted troll) and as a sort of retaliation many members of the AR15 board went and complained to the company hosting the board and some members took it as far as to the Secret Service. While going through some news sites I frequent, I found this article about the incident: [url]http://www.cdnow.com/cgi-bin/mserver/SID=1842155710/pagename=/RP/ALLSTAR/article.html/fid=286855[/url] the AR15 board discussed this event thoroughly (some of the comments can be found here: [url] http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=51564[/url] ) The point of my post is that while the comments posted on the RATM.com message boards was incredibly sick, the behavior of this board was rather disappointing. Those that hold on to their second amendment so tightly, try to deny the first amendment to those whose views they disagree with. Personally, that makes me rather sick. And while discussion is going on right now about what will happen to our rights after this terrorist event, members of this board helped to kill someone's first amendment right. Good job. While I really enjoy this board for the firearms discussion, I'm not sure if I want to come back after seeing this behavior. (I look forward to the comments that say "good riddance".) Sorry for the rant, I had to get this off my chest. -FPC_anon
Link Posted: 9/17/2001 5:50:53 PM EDT
Unless somebody's on their own little server, with a closed connection, there IS no "1st amendment rights" on the internet. Somewhere along the line there are companies that provide service, and if the terms of those agreements are breached then service can or will be dropped. Even if it's over something said, the companies (in this case a free MB provider) have any and all the rights to discontinue service if they feel that the agreement has been breached.
Link Posted: 9/17/2001 6:22:45 PM EDT
Maybe we should get the BATF and DOJ droids who monitor THIS site to comment on our (cough, cough) First Amendment rights? Last time I looked, threatening to kill the President of the USA was a crime. I saw that in the RATM sites. If I were to use my guns to kill people for no good reason, I would abrogate my 2nd Amendment rights. Understand?
Link Posted: 9/17/2001 6:33:48 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/17/2001 6:40:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/17/2001 6:40:32 PM EDT by Torf]
Many of these folks were celebrating the attacks. This would certainly raise the ire of law enforcement agencies. Celebrating terrorism causes one to be profiled as a terrorist, just like a person cracking jokes about hiding bombs in the White House while on a tour can get one in trouble! NAP and his supporters ought to be willing to subject themselves to the consequences of their words and actions, if they truely believe them. If you support these bastards, I think you misunderstand the concept of freedom.
Link Posted: 9/17/2001 6:41:25 PM EDT
I read through a lot of those posts after someone posted a link here. What I saw were a bunch of self proclaimed "revolutionaries" who drive around in brand new Volkswagen Jettas posting their calls to kill the President. That is not free speach protected by the first ammendment, that is inciting the overthrow of our government - something those patheticially sheltered little beannie babies who think they're 'hard' for spray painting graffiti would like more than anything to see happen. They broke not only the service providers Terms of Use Agreement, they broke federal law. They should be happy they're not serving life at Leavenworth for treason.
Link Posted: 9/17/2001 6:45:42 PM EDT
a couple of inflammatory comments were posted to the RATM.com message boards
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A couple?? We saw the RATM post - it was WAY more than a couple!
Those that hold on to their second amendment so tightly, try to deny the first amendment to those whose views they disagree with
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Okay mister Holier Than Thou let me explain this to you - The COMPANY that provides RATMs board is a PRIVATELY OWNED BUSINESS. It is well within their own rights to refuse service to anyone they choose. The misguided ignorant suburban white kids on that board are free to speak their minds - THATS the first amendment. However, there is a big difference WHERE they do it when its within a PRIVATELY OWNED ESTABLISHMENT such as a restaurant, bookstore, or INTERNET FORUM. Now do people have the right to complain about the RATM internet forum shutting down? Sure - thats the first amendment.
Those that hold on to their second amendment so tightly, try to deny the first amendment to those whose views they disagree with. Personally, that makes me rather sick.
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PERSONALLY, the death of 5,000+ innocent civilians, firefighters, and policemen by the hands of biggoted homicidal maniacs MAKES ME RATHER SICK - but I guess you and I have different priorities... [rolleyes] By the way, their whole communism thing is a gimick. Its a phony image. theres no way they're really communists - communism is a "Nothing for Everybody" form of government, yet rage are laughing all the way to the bank. sure they have their charities (like giving money to free tibet- yet what are the tibetans going to do with it when most have taken vows of poverty and complete pacifism?) but so do plenty of other bands like U2. Bottom line: they already have millions, and if they give some money to tibet all they need do to make it up is to have another tour...sell a bunch of tickets...sell their concert T-shirts for $25 each...hmmm doesn't sound too much like communism to me...sounds like good old american capitalism. if they were really commies, wouldn't they just have lines where the people could be issued their concert ticket, CD, and T-shirt for free much like russians in a bread line during their communist years? Oh, you do know that Zack was the priviledged son of a famous artist, right? Also, Tom Morello went to Harvard and grew up in a white middle class neighborhood playing Dungeons & Dragons. And these guys are supposed to be salt of the earth communists and social revolutionaries?? Whatever... [whacko]
Link Posted: 9/17/2001 6:54:29 PM EDT
The original poster of this thread is a 6 post troll. Ignore and continue normal business. [beer] p.s. hey troll [-!-!-]
Link Posted: 9/17/2001 6:56:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/17/2001 6:59:11 PM EDT by Steve-in-VA]
You are making me sick. Don't come here and bitch about their site being struck by the PROVIDER, a private entity, not the government, and claim it is a 1st amendment issue. It's not, the government had nothing to do with stifling their diarrhetic dribble, rather, the corporation who was giving them free bandwidth was disgusted by it and yanked their cyber-welfare. I could make the same illogical argument about our right to "free speech" in complaining to the PROVIDER about the threads; it would likewise make absolutely no sense and have NOTHING to do with the 1st amendment. You simply sound pissed that the site does not get the free bandwidth and you are trying, sadly, to hide behind the 1st amendment in order to give your angst some credence. Oh yea, and what Slipknot said.
Link Posted: 9/17/2001 7:02:01 PM EDT
1st amendment: "Congress shall make no law...abridging the freedom of speech...." As a private citizen, the first amendment does not restrict my actions. I am not the government (i.e. "Congress"), and the first amendment does not bar me from any action as a private citizen. As such, I cannot "try to deny the first amendment to those whose views they disagree with," especially since the 1st amendment does not "give" anything that I can deny: it is simply a restriction on the power of government.
Link Posted: 9/17/2001 7:02:41 PM EDT
I didn't post anything relative to the RATM board here or on their site, nor did I complain to the Secret Service about them. I did however send a polite note to Infopop telling them that I appreciated that they provide their service free to causes that they support, but that in light of the traffic on the RATM board I couldn't, in good concience, contintue to use their (very expensive)fee-based service for my corporation. I like to think that was part of their decision process,and that's an accurate reflection of the free-market at work. I would also like to think that, when the content of those posts was pointed out to them, they couldn't justify continuing to provide their servicees for free.
Link Posted: 9/17/2001 7:09:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HighlandMac: The original poster of this thread is a 6 post troll. Ignore and continue normal business. [beer] p.s. hey troll [-!-!-]
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Thats what I suspected, but then I thought, "Hey, the name suggests that he wants to remain anonymous!" If you are really a dedicated member, why not just use your real name? We are not buying it.
Link Posted: 9/17/2001 7:22:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FPC_anon: (I look forward to the comments that say "good riddance".) FPC_anon
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Well, just to make sure that you are obliged, Mr _anon, Good Riddance! We've already got enough ignorant, misguided kids running their mouths around here. We certainly do not need any more, especially those whose shallow lives revolve around a lame band. And what was said in the "burn, motherfucker, burn" thread at the RATM board was truly sickening in the most absolute sense. I wish I could be there when you punks finally get out of school and the real world smacks you upside the head. Now get lost until you've managed to pull your head out of your ass.
Link Posted: 9/17/2001 7:45:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FPC_anon: In light of last Tuesdays tragedy, a couple of inflammatory comments were posted to the RATM.com message boards (doubtlessly a twisted troll)
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Trolls who have 1600 something post-counts?
while the comments posted on the RATM.com message boards was incredibly sick, the behavior of this board was rather disappointing. Those that hold on to their second amendment so tightly, try to deny the first amendment to those whose views they disagree with.
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What kind of first ammednment issues the hell are we talking about here? Infopop OWNED the servers, they provided them to RATM for FREE becasuse RATM is comprised of MONEY-GRUBBING CAPIALISTS of the worst kind, the neo-elite, the wanna-be illuminati. And since these servers were not OWNED by any pop-communist 98-pound-vegan-revolutionaries they decided they were not going to allow it. Even if it was a service paid for by Rage or said P.C.98-PVR it could still be pulled at any time. Want me to make this simple for you? Freedom of the press (internet) is limited to those who own a press (server)
Personally, that makes me rather sick.
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Personally that makes me think you're in college.
And while discussion is going on right now about what will happen to our rights after this terrorist event, members of this board helped to kill someone's first amendment right. Good job.
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no we didn't the SS might with a leather sap, but infopop OWNED the server, can you not see this?
While I really enjoy this board for the firearms discussion, I'm not sure if I want to come back after seeing this behavior. (I look forward to the comments that say "good riddance".) Sorry for the rant, I had to get this off my chest.
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oh piss off now, we have not the care for the Oper8or "goodbye guys I'm pissed you hurt my feewings" whining. Wanna know the real kicker? I think you and I probably think a LOT alike just judging from what you've said, you just sound to me and I hope for your sake I'm right that yuor midn is in the right place but you've been given a lot of stupid neo-liberal (read modern-day democrat or simply marxist) rhetoric by colleges and MTV. I just hope you can see through it one day. I've been rather pissed at the gen-pop of this board myself for the thought-police like attitude they've taking to everything lately, what would they think if someone narced to the batf on any number of threads here from the past. But people were talking about very illegal shit over there and I think the call was justified. Everthing that happened after that was a property-owners personal decision. And the only thing illegal I've ever seen here was stuff that was only illegal because of illegal laws. And I'm rather pissed that RATM boards went down myself too, I've been posting over there for a year and a half now.. What can I say? I loved fukken with the dumbass commies. It takes a special kind of pissing off to get line-by-line dissection of a post.
Link Posted: 9/17/2001 7:57:52 PM EDT
FPC_anon, hey Dorothy. You didn't wander into Wonderland, you are at AR15.com. As noted, we can read the post count of your "troll" and the dates of posted statements. We can also see your complete agendas from the front page. Most of you are nothing more than home grown terrorists cheering the acts of criminals. However, if you wish to attack "corporate America" I suggest you start with Sony/Epic. I gotta go get some Taco Bell now.
Link Posted: 9/17/2001 8:05:14 PM EDT
SlipKnot- I couldn't have said it better myself. And your analysis of RATM's "communism" is right on the mark.
Link Posted: 9/17/2001 8:49:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/17/2001 10:11:17 PM EDT
Actually,...I think some of the people who were posting the threats and suggestions concerning the President got off easy......If someone wrote a letter to a newspaper, or to the Govt. making statements like those,....you can BET they would receive a visit from some gentlemen wearing suits, and carrying sidearms, who would like to ask them a few questions. It is illegal to make threatening statements toward the president. Funny thing is,...all of these tree huggin wannabe anarchist KIDS have no clue. They spout off about capitalism because they think its cool to be against our "evil commercial society". But they are so easily taken in by a band who CAPITALIZES on an ANTI CAPITALISM GIMMICK....so they can sell CDs at $15.00 each.
Link Posted: 9/17/2001 10:30:34 PM EDT
Here is why I don't have 1st amendment freedoms on an internet discussion forum. GOATBOY YOU ARE A COCKSUCKER!!!! (sarcastic) Now, the owner of THIS discussion forum (Goatboy), can then decide if I have violated HIS terms of service, provided on his privately owned computer equipment. (I have, I used profanity) If I called Goatboy a cocksucker in his house, I could expect to be ejected from his house (at the least). BUT, if I use his privately owned discussion forum to commit crime (threats to federal officials), I can DEFINATELY expect to be denied service (also at the least, if not reported to the authorities) If you want true 1st amd freedoms on the net, buy your own server & URL. Our CURRENT 1st amendment freedoms give you the right to speak your mind, but DO NOT permit you to shout fire in a movie theater or require the government to give you your own access to the internet, AM radio station, or air time on TV, or your own TV show, etc. Ed
Link Posted: 9/17/2001 10:40:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/18/2001 12:26:03 AM EDT
Ya, good job on trashing the RATM boards. Maybe Goatboy can do an IP match so we can see who this alias girl is.
Link Posted: 9/18/2001 7:03:05 AM EDT
FYI: During the legal wrangling just after the Presidential election, an outspoken leftist personality on a morning radio show here in Dallas made a comment, during a discussion of the possibility that Governor Bush would become President, to the effect that applications for snipers are now being accepted, or something like that. Unfortunately for him, a guy who I went through boot camp, MCT and electronics school with was listening, and emailed the Texas Rangers and the Secret Service with the guy's name, the exact quote and the radio station's call letters, expressing his outrage. He received a call that day from a Secret Service Special Agent from the Dallas office, and was asked a few questions. The next morning, the progressive voice of the people was not on the air because he was being grilled by the Secret Service in the office of the station manager. He was fired later that week and the station apologized profusely to its listeners. I don't believe he was prosecuted. The moral of the story: Threatening or offering to kill the President, even as a joke, is a crime and is not funny in the least. The Secret Service has no sense of humor about it at all, just like the FAA and airport authorities when people make bomb or gun comments on planes. Hopefully, the NewAnalPantywaist has learned that much from all of this.
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