All of you frothing at the mouth to see Palistinians slaughtered:  If another group of people settled in your homeland, took away your home, your rights, and killed your loved ones with the blessing and support of the United States, you'd be dancing in the streets yourselves.  I'm not in any way condoning what happened and I have no love for the Palistinians either, but wake up people!  

Personally, I'm betting on the French.

[):)]
NSF

I'm not going to debate the issue with you,

but I do think your timing is poor...

Post from Bigshooter -

What should we wake up to? That the Palestinian people bear us no love? That they revel in our misery? That they celebrate the death of the innocent in OUR streets?

OK, we are fully awakened to those facts! Now what? What's your point? That we should forgive them for dancing on such a day as today?

Thanks, but no thanks, I'll remember their attitude for a long, long time!

Eric The(I'SpectYouDidHaveAPoint,Right?)Hun[>]:)]

My point is that the U.S. should practice what it preaches and cease economic and military support of an oppressive occupational government in the middle east.  If we want peace, a reliable source of oil, and the safety of our sons and daughters in the armed services and innocent civilians at home, we will never achieve it by supporting Israel.  The people responsible should be made to pay, I whole-heartedly agree.  But this bloodlust for a people who have been reduced to little more than refugees in their own homeland, IMHO, is foolish and ignorant.  

Palestinian Homeland: No, Isreali Homeland: Yes

Take a history class, Bigshooter. You will learn that Isreal has been the homeland of the Canaanites (Isrealis) for Thousands of years.

Here's a short history lesson:

Canaan (Modern Day Isreal, etc.) was founded by 2 groups thousands of years ago. They were the Canaanites (Isrealis) who wanted to settle the land and Phonecians (Palestinians) who wanted to utilize its Ports for trading. They lived well together until the Canaanites migrated to Egypt. The rest can be found in the Old Testament, but here it is. The Canaanites were enslaved by the Pharoes. Moses led them to the "Land of Milk and Honey" as promised by GOD. This was the land they had come from many years before. When they came back they had problems. One later problem were the Phonecians (Phillistines.) David slew Goliath, and the Isrealites lived in Isreal for thousands of years until the 18th Century when they were invited to Europe. The Isrealites migrated across Europe and remained there until the Holocaust. They returned to their homeland only to find that it had been taken over by the Palestinians. They took back their land and kicked some ass. ISREAL IS THE JEWISH HOMELAND NOT THE PALESTINIAN HOMELAND.

Isreal has only taken actions against Palestinians because of various Terrorist acts. The Golan Heights were seized because Syrians were using them to attack a Jewish CIty and kill innocent Civilians. The Egyptians used the Gaza Strip to stage attacks on Isreal and it was seized in order to keep the Egyptians further away from Tel Aviv. The West bank was used by Jordanians to attack Isreal and actually seize though briefly the city of Jeruselam.

It has been said that Jeruselam is Islam's 3rd Holiest city because Mohammed had an Acid Trip and saw "The Seven Heavens" where he was told to have his people pray X times a day by Allah only to have that number reduced. This supposedly happened at the base of the Temple Mount. But, there was no mention of Jeruselam being the site until the Isrealites reformed Isreal. And I doubt Mohammed would have been in Jeruselam since his main 2 Cities (Mecca--Holiest and Medinah--2nd Holiest) were both in South and Central Saudi Arabia.

Let's get something straight, Palestinians are a mix of Radicals from the surrounding countries of Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, and Egypt. Why do you think they use a copy-cat Jordanian Flag. They are violent terrorists who have tried repeatedly to take land that never belonged to them. they incited the problems with Pre-King David Isreal and the Problems with Modern Isreal.

BigShooter,you by far,have made the most sense of anything that I have seen,heard,or read today.

Post from BigShooter -

So the United States should behave just as the others do - what's in it for us? No principles, just the 'bottom line'?

We should decide on our allies, by not picking the only democratically elected government in the region, but by choosing the side that will make our lives more, shall we say, comfortable?

Screw comfort, screw oil, screw the rest! The United States was once a nation that had as its motto '[b]Millions for charity, not one red cent for tribute![/b]', when the Barbary Pirates attempted to hold ransom our freedom of the seas. Not then, not now, should we cave in and do what's convenient or comfortable, instead of what's right!

Eric The(Riled)Hun[>]:)]

We do not even know at this point it was related to our policy with Isreal. It is possible, although very unlikely, that it could even be a domestic attack.
But chances are Big Daddy is correct in that it is a result or our backing Isreal. That does not justify the attack nor the rest of his post for that matter. Personally, I do not think anything can justify terrorist attacks. If one is so cowardly that they can not take the fight to ones face they are not man enough to deserve and spoils of victory any way. But I digress.
Why do we support Isreal so much any way? We've discussed this here many times in the past. Do you personally give a flying shit who has possession of the Gaza Strip? I don't. Frankly these people....all of them like fighting over this. They've been doing it for thousands of years. It is their sandbox so let them fight over it. I could not possibly care less who the Hell holds that ground. I care about what happens here in the US and are interest. That is not our interest. We are involved to hold the Jews hands because of those in this country and their wealth. Screw 'em. Let them fight among themselves. They like it. They enjoy it. They want to fight. Let them do it.

What Eric said.

I referred to Big Shooter in the above post as Big Daddy. My mistake.

Bigshooter, I don't give a good goddamn what their cause is. It ceased to be important to me the minute I saw those planes hit.
Screw anyone who attempts to justify what happened.  Whatever their justification, now I simply want them dead.

<

Are you speaking of what happened to the Sioux, Apache, Comanche, Navajo, etc.?

FUCK YOU BIGSHITTER, YOU GODDAMN TRAITOR.

I don't hate the Jews or the Palestinians, but I feel the creation on Israel was a mistake. The Jews that left their homeland for the last 2000 years have no claim to the land. It would be like the people of Iceland invading Norway and Sweden and laying claim to the land because that's where their ancestors came from. The Palestinians got a raw deal. They were pushed out of land that they have been living on for many generations while the distant relatives of the original Jews get to come back and say "Well our migratory ways have come to an end let us have the land our ancestors left up to 2000 years ago".

On the other hand the radical Islamic people can be quite crazy as today is proof of. God gave the Jews the land, but most left what was once Israel. Also a lot of Jews don't even believe in Jesus so I'm sure God is very disappointed with the Jews. It will never happen, but somehow the two groups need to learn to live with each other and not let religion get in the way. The Palestinians should be allowed to own land in Israel and have the right to run for election in Israel.

Its a few bad apples on both sides that perpetuate the fighting and the brainwashing of the young. The people who terrorize innocents should be dealt with severely no matter what country they are from.

No Slack!

Bullshit.

The Jews were dispersed from Palistine by the Roman conquest in the first century.  The settled in European (and later American) urban areas predominantly were conflicts arose between Jews and their host nations throughout the centuries. Although a homeland in Palistine has been central to Jewish religion ever since, Modern political Zionism emerged largely as a result of the progroms of the early 1880's.  On November 8th, 1917 the British foreign secretary Arthou Balfour wrote Lord Rothschild expressing the Crown's support for the creation of a Jewish homeland in Palistine in exchange for Jewish support.  England had feared that Germany would make a declariation in support of Zionism and draw a sympathetic response form the United States, where Zionist Jews were (and still are) very politically influential. They also hoped this would keep Russia in the war because of the leadership role Jews played in the Bolshavic Revolution. After the war Jewish settlers trickled into a land which the Palistinians had called home for over a thousdand years and which was administed by the British. World War II and the "Holocaust" solidified Western support of the Zionist cause and have been Israel's excuse for murder and disposession ever since. I can suggest several texts if you want to bone up on your history.

I have no love for either side, and although I'm no expert, I know my history very well.

I see the intellectuals have really joined the discussion now.  

If you look at every one of my posts I've ever made on this board, you will never find that I have condoned terrorism, excused murder, expressed hatred for Jews (or Palistinians) or anything else. I love my country and am willing to die for it.  I think those responsible for this tragedy should be punished with the utmost prejudice. However, I refuse to be brainwashed and I refuse to join a herd of slack-jawed retards screaming for blood over something they don't understand.

Judging by all the hateful comments related to this tragic event, one thing is perfectly clear. Maybe not as clear to many here, but we as a whole are really not that much different than those we are trying to lay this blame on.  And if this is any indication of the rest of this nation's feelings, that's a much bigger tragedy all by itself.

Good Lord, are there still any Sioux, Apache, Commanche, Navajo, etc., tribal members left from whom the land was taken? I would think that they'd have to be pretty old by now, but they should be paid for their land immediately!

If we're talking about the [u]descendants[/u] of the tribesmen who lost their lands, I think they're in the same boat as the blacks who desire some sort of reparations for slavery!
It's just too damn late!

Eric The(ThereJustHasToBeAnEnd[u]Sometime[/u]!)Hun[>]:)]

Just open an Indian casino and be well.

 Will a bloodlust for people who murder THOUSANDS of MY people do? If it won't, tough GD sh*t.

We support most of the Arabs(oil), along with the Israelis and I doubt if anyone of the bastards on either side appreciate it.

I never expressed sympathy for those responsible. I think they should be punished but I don't think a whole race of people is responsible.  And I'm sorry for the last bit, I was spouting off.  I wasn't refering to anyone other than those who would call me a traitor for expressing my opinion that calls to kill all Palistinians is the wrong way to respond.  I think allowing ourselves to be drawn into this mess is what is ultimately responsible.  Now we are in it, and I will support my Country's efforts whole-heartedly.  I dread what may happen.  

There is nothing to blame for this.  There is NO FUCKING EXCUSE!!!  It doesn't matter who we supported or did not support, there is NO EXCUSE!  I do blame those assholes for dancing in the streets.  There in NO EXCUSE!!!!!

Rant all you want with your anti-Semitic views.  That is all this is, bigotry.  THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR THIS!!!

Bigshooter...  Possibly THOUSANDS of Americans died today.  Place blame another day.  It's time to pick up the pieces, grieve, and prepare.

I'll take the side of the Americans who died.  I don't give a rats ass about your views on foreign policy.  I am filled with enough rage as it is.

As someone mentioned before... you're timing sucks.

Going back just sixty years we never had any problems with the Arab people - and all the problems we've had since: terrorism, oil embargo and inflation of the 70s, etc have been a response to our economic, military, and diplomatic support of Israel and their policies.

Bigshooter, you may be right, but it doesn't really matter anymore.

I have been sympathetic to the Palestinians, and they do not bear all the responsiblity for the conflict they are in - but this is beyond the pale. If all the dead of that conflict (current & previous intifada) are combined, and all the pain and suffering from many years, it doesn't add up to this. And you can add in every other terrorist act, here, and in Europe in the post war period (Libyans, Red Brigade, Bader-meinhof gang, Puerto Rican seperatists, IRA, Israeli assassinations on foreign soil, Algerian bombings in France, Basque seperatists, our home grown fellas, etc).

Our intelligent enemies our keeping very quiet now. The Palestinians are very vocal in their glee, along with other arabs. Yassir Arafat of course condemns it. Big deal. And it seems unlikely that he had any direct involvement as he has much to lose. However, besides his people's jubilation his own newspaper has given a backhanded endorsement to the crimes.

It is very clear to me that they are not only not our friends, and a pack of liars, who hate us intensely, but that we should remove ourselves as a diplomatic conduit between them and the Israelis. Let the Norwegians take over as they did before. We are now more of an aggrieved party than either Israel or the Palestinians.

We're talking several ZIP CODES full of people here - not one or two a day.

It really *IS* like a Tom Clancy novel.

The Jews are still the chosen children of God and that makes them my brothers (even though I'm Christian) That land was theirs and it doesn't matter becuase according to ole Bin, he hates us because we watch porn on cable and MTV rock n roll.  This is exactly why I support the Jews.  

Funny, I don't remember the US ever flying a couple of planes into any Palastinian building!!

Isreal is our ally...period, because they are a democracy.  The occupided land they got is the result of war, to the winner goes the spoils.  Same thing with the US vs the Indians/Spanish/
French.  We fought them and won.

If you don't like it then leave or fight back.  But fight the right enemy.

sgtar15

Didn't it take days at OKC to figure out that the culprit wasn't actually these "rag head SOBs" that everybody was wanting to kill???

People spent days wanting to go out and shoot themselves an arab. Then, low and behold, the enemy was a white boy from the good old USA. WOW, I'll bet they coulda knocked you over with a feather.

The point is that they still haven't figured out who the hell did it. Loosen up a little till they do.

And another thing, I don't support the Palestinians or what they did. I think that they have every right to hate Americans for supporting the oppresive society called Israel, but that doesn't give them the ethical lattitude to celebrate a terrorist attack that kills civilians, which include women, children, and such. That is just unacceptable. By doing this they have issued a forfeit of any moral support from me. I wouldn't have minded if they celebrated some defeat our military suffered in a conflict but to celebrate an act of this type and magnitude is unacceptable.

SCREW THEM.

Or maybe they are just suffering from bad propaganda. Who the hell knows, so shut up and find something more productive to talk about.

Oh, I forgot, this is mostly for therapeutic purposes... Well have at it then, cause some of you certainly need therapy.

I'm gonna go to bed now.

goodnight...

Hey big shooter (small letters, small shooter)?
When ya gonna pass out the brown shirts and start the goose stepping lessons.
No luck for you.

MY suspicions are that Bigshooter is either a pro Nazi or muslim, remembeeer that the Palenstianians supported Hitler

In recent years I have questioned my previous opinion that we should support Israel vs the Palestinians.  But I made up my mind, even before today's attack, to support Israel because the Palestinians in majority are cowardly animals.

We should anihilate every living creature in the Palestinian territories and every country that has harbored terrorists.  Time for a little "Old Testament Warfare".

The war between Israel and Palestine will never end until the anti-christ sets up his kingdom with a quasi-peace.  This all started because Abraham had a son with his servant, Hagar,(Arabs) and also a son with his wife, Sarah.(Israel) Although the son born to the servant was actually the firstborn, he was not the seed of promise that God had promised would multiply like the sand of the sea.  We are right by supporting Israel, God's chosen people.  He said in His Word that He would bless the nations that would bless Israel, and would curse the nations that would curse Israel.

Anyone who celebrates the death of thousands of innocent lives deserves retaliation to the extreme.  I have never been happy to see innocent Palestinian lives lost in the fighting in Israel.  Such conflict should be left to soldiers, yet the Palestine public rejoices at our loss today.  That I will not forgive.  Where other nations condemn this, they laugh.  

You became part of Israel yourself the moment you accepted Yeshua Ha'Mashiach as your savior.Besides my people are only Yahuda(Judah),Binyamin(Benjamin) and Levi the rest of the tribes were carried off by the ASSYRIANS to Crimea and from there they spread to the four corners of the earth from Kai Feng China to England to southern Africa to Russia you will find the descendents of Abraham all over the world and almost all of them don't even know it.I will say that if this stuff keeps up and we deploy troops to Har Megiddo(Mount Meggido)to fight them that we may find out who is who pretty soon.


sopmodm4

He's not talking about "sympathy" for the terrorists, he's talking about their motives and how to prevent future attacks.

You slack-jawed retards really are disgusting.

Wow bigshooter, it looks as if you get to have your very own "anti-semetic" smear campaign.  Makes me think you must be speaking the truth.
rDAm

Bigshooter,

I will throw this in.  This is from my Sudanese Co-worker.  She is a Moslem, well educated, and has worked in a couple of other Moslem countries.  The general view of the Moslem world  of the Palestinians is that they are Lazy Idiots who sold their heritage away.  According to her the Jews came into Palestine and bought up land.  The Palestinians willingly sold this "worthless" land to the Jews thinking they got the better of them.  Until Jews moved onto the land, gained enough political power to take over the country, and created Israel.  The only reason the Palestinians get the support they do is that the Moslems hate the Israeli's far worse than they do the Palestinians.  

AFARR

Bigshooter:  Let me welcome you back to reality.  Land belongs to whoever has the power to take it.

Should we hop back into our boats because we stole the land of America from the natives?

Your argument is sad and pathetic.




The weak Palestinians couldn't fight against the Israelis even with the help of neighboring Arab countries.  Because they couldn't win in a "fair" fight, they resorted to atacking schools (this was back in the 50s, long before the intifadah) and slaughtering innocent children and non-combatants.  You should read a little about Israeli history, you might actually be worth talking to if you do.


"Do what you will,
just think before opening your big damn mouth."

I read not, one part of this post. My official  stance is, shut the fuck up. Hopefully my vulgar language will be sufficient to lock this one. Wake up dipshit. Pointing finger time is over.

If you are implying that due to our support of Isreal is the cause of this, you are an ignorant individual.    

The Arab community has no use for the Palestinians. Need proof? Take a look at a map of the Middle East. Do you think they could have provided a sliver of land for them?

In any case the Palestinian issue is irrelevant at this point.

An analogy if I may.....

You are going along thru life, and life is good.

One day, out of the blue, a missile comes and destroys your home, in fact most of your community.

You lose your wife, one of your children, and both of your parents. The material items lost, while numerous, don't even make the radar screen as you grieve.

The Chinese Communists claim responsibility, and all available intel backs this up.

Days later, as your sift thru the rubble that was your life, you find a piece of the missile that says "Made in USSR"

In fact, its a well know fact that the USSR routinely supplies China with ordnance, at bargain prices, not even market rates.

This happens over and over to many families and many communities in Hometown, USA, for years.

Then suddenly, you get reports that some wild eyed American hijacks a jet, and flies into the Kremlin, and Red Square, even smashing the statues of Lenin and Stalin, causing massive explosions. Several other hijacked jets hit other significant cultural and military Soviet targets.

Question: Do you

1. mourn this act of violence, or

2. dance in the streets???

I'm all for annihilating ANYONE even remotely connected with this act of murder and cowardice, but if we are unwilling to look at what is behind these acts, and then look at our foreign policy, we can get rich simply by buying stock in American Casket Company and whoever is making body bags these days.

GarandMan,
you are absolutely right.  I can't think of a better analogy.  
I think instead of killing any arabs, we need to find out who did this precisely, we then need to put out an ultimatuum to all that harbor them. "Turn them over right now", even give them the intel. Let them bring him to us. If they don't they have signed their own death warrants.

-CK

Sorry, Garandman, but I have to part company with you on this one! The analogy you've given is not precisely on point with what's happened to the Palestinians in the Middle East, IMHO.
If they want to soil what they may view as a noble cause with the blood of innocents, then so be it!

Nevertheless, I don't care WHY the sobs are grinning, I just want to slap the silly grins off their faces!

It's just a really bad time to be grinning or dancing if you ask me!

Eric The(TakingNamesOfGrinningDancers)Hun[>]:)]

Israel was set up by the British. The Palestinians were also there. The Jewish people, were all moved there after they survived the Holocaust. The Palestinians were there because no other "Arab" country wanted them.

Jews have been in that area for 2000+ years. So have Palestians and Muslims. Just because your uncle 200 generations removed owned a 1 acre farm doesn't give you the "right" to that land 2000 years later. Think if that standard was applied to the US. NONE OF US would have the right to any of the property we are on now, NONE OF US.

Israel beat everyone else in that part of the world back away from the land they claim, fair and square. They haven't conquered their weaker neighbors or driven them out of their countries. Even though militarily Israel is more than strong enough to do so.

The people of that region would hate us if we didn't support Israel, hell they'd hate us if there was no Israel.

We invaded Lebanon in the 50's. We supported the overthrow of the elected Iranian Gov't and installed the Shah of Iran, due to oil politics. We supported Iraq in it's war against Iran. We supported the Mujahadin in there war against the USSR. They hate us when we meddle in their affairs and they hate us after we help them.

This is a basic culture clash. They will hate us for the way we live, MTV, alcohol, or whatever else they condsider decadent. They would hate us because the envy our economy, standard of living, and productivity. If neccesary they would claim that as descendants of European Christians we are responsible for the carnage of the Crusades during the Middle Ages.

Don't try to say they hate us because of Israel it's just a handy excuse. When have they been our "friends"??

During the early part of the 20th century, before they knew they had oil in that region, we didn't interact with them. There was nothing that they had that we wanted or needed. Now the have oil. Jerks with oil are still jerks.

What would that part of the world be like for us if we didn't have 1 ally, Israel, there??