[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Land taxes!! (Page 1 of 4)
Posted: 9/5/2006 11:36:48 AM EDT
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Help me out here this is my first year paying taxes for my land. I asked how long do you have to pay these taxes for and I was told for as long as I was on that land. Now is it just me or should you only have to pay taxes on land until your home is paid off or it should be only a one time deal like anything else you buy? Is what they are doing not the same as what England did to us back in the 1700? Taxation without justification!! Just a thought I was thinking of as I was paying my land tax. |
You don't own shit my friend, you are just renting from the gov.... Its bullshit, don't pay the taxes and see how quickly the gov will boot you on your ass, and TAKE "YOUR" property. Its criminal, but thet do things incrimentally and so slowly, people don't realize they are being fucked by the gov.....if they did, people would have done something about it a long time ago... Once you buy property, it should be yours period.....but its not... |
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Sharply raising property taxes is the new scourge in this country. It's being done all over and is getting ugly in many cases. I talked to the assessor/collector in the Missouri county where I have my farm and he said he gets HUGE pressure from the state to raise them. He said they literally come to my place every year, trespass, nose around and even peek in windows looking for any excuse to raise taxes. The newest thing is to reclassify wooded land as "recreational use" even though no such thing exists in the tax code ("commercial," "residential," "agricultural") in order to charge the tax based upon the full market value, rather than assessed ag value. Money grubbing fuckers. 
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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allodial_title I think Texas is the only state that still allows for Allodail Title. You pay all the taxes now based on your estimated life expectancy. |
 WOW! I can't believe I never thought of it this way before...pzjgr; You certainly make a good point. |
One way to fix the problem before it gets out of hand |
Not every state has the proposition system in their constitution. I'm impotent anyway, as I reside in Illinois. There are large numbers of schmucks like me who own recreational/retirement property in Missouri, but live elsewhere--we are seen as an easy, non-represented place to grub money. It's working well. <sigh> |
Yep, look at your deed and the property is listed as fee simple. That means you aren't the ultimate owner. |
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folk, folks,........you live under the illusion that we are free and soverign. free individuals exisisting in some autonomus land. you ARE subjects of the government, you ARE NOT free and WILL be subject to the whims of the overlord. dem, repub, independant. it matters not. the country is but an illusion of freedom. a revolution would set back the clock but, it would not change the inevitable. all governed countries fail due to the greed of those that govern. our time is at hand and nothing will smooth the edges or stay the bitter taste of the pill we all soon shall be forced to swallow. 
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Do you want some irony with that? My wife is Vietnamese (naturalized American). Her family's land in Vietnam is hers (and her siblings) free and clear without the ability of the VC government to take it. ETA The VC government recognizes hereditary title, as well. When South Vietnam fell in '75 the VC didn't want (and wholely couldn't defeat) a SVN popular uprising, so they instituted a law they had in the North. If you owned your land/house, it was yours, not the governments. If you didn't, it became the communists property. They have no taxes on their land, but if you want to buy any more from the communist government it costs a small fortune. |
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I have preached this surmon for years to no avail. Here are the responses that I get in order of frequency: Yeah man, you're right, but there ain't nuttin we can do about it. We have to have taxes to pay for schools, services, etc *eyes glaze over from inability to comprehend anything more complicated than a TV Guide* If you don't like it, go live in (name of third world country here) (Usually uttered by "super patriots") Why don't you run for office and change the law? |
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You want to see higher property taxes... New school in your district. County/City projects. (library, recreation centers, art center, civic center) Family farms selling out to contractor for sand pits, and/or housing developments. (Dont get me wrong on this one! Nursing Homes can bleed a family farm dry after 5 years! We may have to sell some or the county will take it all when funds run dry...) |
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I hate property taxes. I would support a tiered system. Everyone pays a set minimal amount for things like roads but then if you want, you buy additional town services a la carte such as police, fire, sanitation, schools, etc. Only issue is I'd better be prepared to fight a fire myself if I don't want to pay for the fire tax. |
Welcome to USA, Land of the |
No, that's what I mean. I was comparing how absurd it is for the gov to tax your property over and over every year which is what property tax is. It's absurd to tax the SAME THING over and over and over again - whether it be your land or your money. I could better have, though, maybe said it I suppose.  |
<slaps forehead> Gah! My reading at comprehension do suck.
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| As a real estate agent , you realize that taxes are a nessisary evil. I've met tons of people who specificly want properties with high taxes. Whether its true or not , they feel a higher tax means better schools. Of course , paying any taxes suck, but in some districts , you can find out exactly what the tax dollars do. Now , think about this , you don't actually own all your property. Real estate law states that fee simple property that you own the land , to the center of the earth ,and to the edge of the atmospehere. Unfortunately , the government has declared that they own a right-away over 500ft of property owned. Now , having said that ,they own the first 10-15 feet of your boundries for utilities as well with road frontage. Now , while it does suck , look at it on the bright side , by paying those taxes , it does go somewhere ,and in general, your yearly appreciation makes up for the taxes you pay by far. |
The auto is an amazingly lucartive device. You pay taxes when you buy it. You pay taxes yearly to maintain it. You pay taxes on maintenance to keep it running. You pay insurance, which is of course taxed. You pay for your license to drive your auto which is taxed. You pay for the occasional ticket or infraction commited while in your auto. And to top it all off, you have to pay just to drive on some of the roads. Abso-fucking-lutely ridiculous. I dont think anything is taxed as much as an auto. |
Property taxes are the main revenue source for local governments around here; how else would those services be funded if not by property taxes? |
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Now that we all agree that it's absolutely immoral what the government is doing to us, what do we do about it? Or, more to the point, what event will get the ball rolling enough that things get changed? Disclaimer: These questions are in no way prompting, nor even condoning, violations of the CoC. |
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On average, my property taxes cost me about 3000.00 per year on a brick house and 20 acres. I have lived here 12 years, so I have paid the .gov almost 36,000.00 in property taxes. Guess how much the land has appreciated? About 80,000.00. Granted, I am getting ahead overall, but eventually, you are either forced to sell and buy cheaper property, or continue to burn up your equity in taxes. TRG |
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I am not concerned about the local governments revenue sources. I have a concern with the government telling me that if I don't pay yearly what they think I should pay for the privilege of owning land they are going to take it from me by force. By the way, How did the local government fund itself before land taxes were started? Tayous1, why does it make any difference whether you have paid off the land, or still have a mortgage on it in relation to your paying taxes to the government? |
Sales tax. Let me keep my cash and watch my consumer spending increase. I don't buy luxury items for my home because I am constantly saving for my property taxes, follwed by my income taxes. I save every month, just to be able to keep what I already paid for. TRG |
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It really is pathetic. Im not a fan of many taxes but this is the worse. Yes you are correct it is like taxing all the money in your savings account ( not interest , the total amount ) every year even though it is the same funds. It would really upset me if I lost my job ,etc and lost my land that I've paid taxes for decades or what not on just because I couldn't afford it that year. Very unfair. If you really want to get upset think about this.... You've paid 20% or so in income tax on the money used to buy the land....... Every year you pay thousands in property tax on the same land thats already paid for....... When you die it will often be sold and before the money goes to your kids or whatever it is taxed by inheritance tax ( Quite a high rate too IIRC ) It is because of expensive property tax that I will never live in a place worth an excessive amount or have a huge plot of land even if I can afford it.... Really irks me
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If you hate taxes and our over-reaching .GOV- read about Lysander Spooner Spooner harshly condemned the Civil War and the Reconstruction period that followed. Though he approved of the fact that Black slavery was abolished, he criticized the North for failing to make this the purpose of their cause. Instead of fighting to abolish slavery, they fought to "preserve the union" and, according to Spooner, to bolster business interests behind that union. Spooner believed a war of this type was hypocritical and dishonest, especially on the part of Radical Republicans like Sumner who were by then claiming to be abolitionist heroes for ending slavery. Spooner also argued that the war came at a great cost to liberty and proved that the rights expressed in the Declaration of Independence no longer held true – the people could not "dissolve the political bands" that tie them to a government that "becomes destructive" of the consent of the governed because if they did so, as Spooner believed the south had attempted to do, they would be met by the bayonet to enforce their obedience to the former government. Reacting to the war, Spooner published one of his most famous political tracts, No Treason: The Constitution of No Authority. In this lengthy essay, Spooner argued that the Constitution was a contract of government (see social contract theory) which had been irreparably violated during the war and was thus void. Furthermore, since the government now existing under the Constitution pursued coercive policies that were contrary to the Natural Law and to the consent of the governed, it had been demonstrated that document was unable to adequately stop many abuses against liberty or to prevent tyranny from taking hold. Spooner bolstered his argument by noting that the Federal government, as established by a legal contract, could not legally bind all persons living in the nation since none had ever signed their names or given their consent to it - that consent had always been assumed, which fails the most basic burdens of proof for a valid contract in the courtroom. Spooner widely circulated the No Treason pamphlets, which also contained a legal defense against the crime of treason itself intended for former Confederate soldiers (hence the name of the pamphlet, arguing that "no treason" had been committed in the war by the south). These excerpts were published in DeBow's Review and some other well known southern periodicals of the time |
How does fee simple mean that? |
A mushroom cloud or two, followed by another Great Depression and Mexican Intifada. |
They already get a portion of the sales tax. Relying on that alone will not pay the bills, unless you intend to drastically hike the sales tax to the range of a 15 or 20 % VAT. |
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You would think that with all the money government has taken in taxes, they could have invested huge sums of it into a vehicle that would pay interest/dividends to the government that they could use to lessen the tax burden on citizens. Maybe someday being able to run government on the proceeds of their own investments. It will never happen because ALL politicians are criminals against humanity. |
If the local .gov would get thier hands out of my pocket and learn to provide the services that I desire more efficiently, then there would not be a need to increase the sales tax to 15-20% TRG |
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Purposes and effects of taxation Funds provided by taxation have been used by states and their functional equivalents throughout history to carry out the functions such as: military defense- September 11th enforcement of law and public order- Illegal Aliens Running Amok Castle Rock case DeShaney v. Winnebago County 911 Call Failures protection of property- Kelo v. City of New London redistribution of wealth- Link economic infrastructure — roads, legal tender, enforcement of contracts, etc., public works- Cost Overrun the operation of government itself- Oligarchy Most modern governments also use taxes to fund welfare and public services, such as: education systems, No Child Left Behind health care systems- Medicare Medicaid pensions for the elderly- Social Security unemployment benefits- Link energy, water and waste management systems- Link public transportation- Link |
Or they just wait for you to die and then force your heirs to sell it all to pay their inheritance taxes or... if you have no heirs, the gov't gets all your land and shit for free!!! W00t!! |
When I pay sales tax, it is voluntary. I know that when I make a purchase, that a portion of that sale price will includes sales tax. The transaction itself is taxed and I can choose to pay it or not when I decide to make the purchase or not make the purchase. If I choose tomake the purchase, the tax is figured, the amount added, I and remit the total. There. It is done. That is the end of it right there. There was no need to record my private information for some scumbag beauracrat to wheeze over. There was no threat of violence from some deputy sheriff. There was no need to make a special trip to some disease infested government office and waste a full day waiting on some gargoyle to call my name and endure all manner of disrespect. No. No need at all. I just put the money on the counter/table/desktop, and that is that. Oh yeah, here is another little tidbit. When I make a purchase, I pay the same sales tax rate that every other person pays. I don't get raped for more because my earning power is greater than my neighbor nor do I get a free ride on the back of my other nieghbor that earns more than I do. We all pay the same. And guess what, you know that other guy, the one that doesn't own any property other than a ragged coat and a half full bottle of Thunderbird wine? He paid sales tax too. And he paid the same amount(rate) that I paid. And that Bill Gates paid. And that Lisa the lot lizard paid. And that guy that stopped in to get a bite to eat on his way through town. And Manny the Mexican? He paid too. We all paid. We all paid voluntarily. And none of us was subjected to blatant disrespect by some unaccountable government functionary. My property is mine. You have no claim on it. Niether does your sister. Nor your neighbo, nor your child, nor your high school principal. None of them have any claim on my property. None of them, nor you either, have any right to force me to pay them a tax for the priviledge of owning my own property. And since they do not have that right individually, they do not have that right collectively. And therefore they do not have the right to authorize government to do it for them. Property taxes are a violation of our rights.It is extortion and there is no other word for it and there is no legitmate argument around it. What about the need for more money? What if we have to raise the sales tax rate to 20% to cover the cost of government? Well, since it is my pocket that the money comes from either way, why not establish a tax that 1.doesn't violate my rights 2. treats everyone equally and 3. doesn't require me to divulge my private information? And if the sales tax rate were to go to 20% on EVERYBODY, then everybody might just get a little pissed and start asking questions about where government is spending their money. And since everybody would be paying the same rate, one sector of the community would not be toting an unfair load while others get a free ride. Here is one more little gem that really is one of my favorites. Sales tax only takes power away from crooked politicians. And I am ALWAYS in favor of that. You have no right to my property. That includes my cash. |
The same could be said of your options to buy a bigger house that will be taxed at a higher rate. You chose to buy that more expensive house.
I pay my property tax by mailing it. I don't know how your system is set up.
Government operations need funding, and sales tax alone will not cover the bills. I don't see how you think those bills will be paid solely by a sales tax.
I don't see where a tax that is on a sliding scale based on the value of your property is somehow unfair. If you have the nicer house, you obviously have more financial resources than the guy living in the single wide mobile home with no lot. Of course your tax bill will be more than the guy in the single wide.
More than they are now? Doubtful.
See what I said above. I don't see how a guy in a nicer house is being unfairly burdened by having a higher assessment.
You want to live in society, that means you make use of the things that government provides. That requires funding. No one lives on an island or a wilderness anymore where they have no need or use of publicly funded things that are paid for through taxes. |
You think that all of local government could be funded by the local share of sales tax alone? Amazing. Please run for your local county board and share your wisdom with the board when you get elected. I am sure the example will spread across the country like wildfire and all local politicians will slap their foreheads and exclaim " why didn't *I* think about that!" Its local tax figuring time here, and I am sure they'd love to hear how you think a few extra million in sales tax would cover the whole bill, absent property taxes: www.theithacajournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060906/NEWS01/609060330/1002 |
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Property taxes are starting to get very oppressive in Virginia as well. It is turning rural land into subdivisions because farmers and landowners who own land for hunting/fishing can't afford to pay it so they are forced to sell out. It is really hurting my ability to buy timber. Also on the issue of Federal taxes, there is an easy fix, The Fair Tax 
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I gurantee you that local service COULD be provided through an appropriate sales tax. Between direct taxation of my wages (medicare, SS, income) I lose at least 40% of my salary. Of the amount I retain, I lose another 20% or so in hidden taxation in fuels and products that I purchase. Of the remaining I pay tax on the services I use (telephone, electricty ) On average, I must save @ 10% of my takehome each month for additional income tax owed. And another 10% for property taxes. In a good year, when I have done all the saving that I can do, in addition to purchasing food, entertainment, commodities, I am lucky if I have been ableto save 5% of my takehome pay. I live frugally. I own the same TV tha I purchased 9 years ago. I drive a car that has 189k mileson it, but it is paid for now. I don't carry excessive insurance and I seldom eat at a ice restaraunt. I also work two additional jobs and take on extra work in my primary job to get ahead. Between my electricity sales, working a shift for the FD, teaching extra courses and living frugally....I save 5% per year above my tax burdens. Fuck property taxes. Put in a 10% sales tax for all I care, but get the .gov out of my damn pocket. TRG |
Yeah, except if local gov wasn't funding all sorts of bullshit with tax dollars, they could cover expenses with sales tax, and possibly a minimal property tax....my taxes are way too high, mainly because of all the social bullshit they go to support, which I don't feel I should be supporting.... |
I'll try, but doubt that you will believe me.
It's not "just you", but you are in a very small minority. If you were part of a majority, you could change the tax laws.
No.
Dear Jesus. The public education system has failed. It was not Taxation without "justification", it was Taxation without Representation. You are "represented". You have local and state representatives in the legislature that write the tax laws. Don't like the tax laws? Elect new representatives who will write better tax laws. We live in a Republic and have the right to elect representatives that will do our will regarding tax laws or any other laws. Therefore, why do we have property taxes on our privately owned land? Because that is what the majority of the voters want. Taxes are a necessity. I don't like them and wish there were fewer taxes, but the average citizen wants lots of government services. If you say "cut taxes", they say, "Yeah! Great idea!" But if you say, "With less taxes, we're not going to have a Fire Department", they will say, "But we really, really need a Fire Department!!! We can't cut out that service!!" Which is it? Do they want less taxes and less services, or do they want all the government services? I can assure you that the majority of the public wants the services. And, they are willing to pay taxes to get them. Property taxes are one way to collect the necessary funds. If you did away with property taxes, you'd have to raise some other tax to make up the difference, or cut services. Personally, I could make a long list of "services" that could be cut. But I'm in the minority.
Keep thinking about it, and remember this when you vote. Don't vote for folks that want to raise taxes. |