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Posted: 9/4/2001 10:54:32 AM EDT
How well will a 14.5 inch barrel penetrate body armor? If you had to go up against a group of BATF agents trying to set fire to your house what would you grab first, a 16" CAR or a 14.5" CAR??
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 11:03:36 AM EDT
This is sad..
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 11:09:00 AM EDT
I think I would throw down the M4 and grab a fire extinguisher. Or maybe a Super Soaker with a backpack reservoir.
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 11:09:18 AM EDT
If you had a 14.5" barrel with a really sharp point, you [i]might[/i] be able to pierce body armor with it if you pushed really hard. The first thing that I would reach for would be my camcorder. That will make my insurance claim for the fire damage easier to prove.
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 11:19:34 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 11:22:43 AM EDT
Easy guys, it's a valid concern now days, considering that if they come they come to kill. [img]http://www.a-human-right.com/RKBA/s_vermin.JPG[/img]
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 11:26:22 AM EDT
If you don't fight back would they appear to be the aggressor? Record it and sue. You could double your collection with the settlement.
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 11:29:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2001 11:29:54 AM EDT by fight4yourrights]
If you live to sue...... Given all the lies and disinformation, how do we know the guy even resisted? Sounds like he did, but we only hear "their" side of it. Proof of this possibility - In the recent Lubbock Texas shoot out, it turns out ALL 385 rounds were fired by Law Enforcement at Law Enforcement. The suspect didn't even have a gun on him, they were all locked up. Body count = 1 dead LEO, 1 wounded suspect. The LEO's tried to pin the death on the suspect, but thankfully the truth came out.
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 11:29:42 AM EDT
So I'm guessing you guys don't beleive the Colt M4 is good against body armor?
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 11:31:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2001 11:34:58 AM EDT by Imbroglio]
Yes it is sad that the "war on drugs", now the "war on guns" has degenerated to the point that the feds and militarized law enforcement has placed law abiding citizens in fear for their lives. As the to quetion asked: It will depend upon what type of body armor the JBT are wearing. Level IIIA is what most will be equipped with and 5.56 will do just fine against it. You will run into problems if the JBT are wearing level III or have a "Body Bunker" shield. Those are designed to stop .308 AP, but they are HEAVY (ceramic plate inserts) and multiple hits will weaken the armor's balistic stopping potential. An encounter with those such equipped should be responded to with 30'06 AP, a Garand being well suited for fast followup shots. Then there is level IV armor which you probably will not see too often, that stops 30'06 AP. A 300 win mag, or 300 ultra mag loaded with 308 ap bullets will solve that problem. The ultimate JBT response would be from a Barett .50 applied where movement constriction areas, like doorways (fire at lead and through the wall to the left and right of the doorway) and hallways. Multiple hits per round would be a very good possibility.
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 11:31:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2001 11:31:30 AM EDT by fight4yourrights]
Your M4 would do fine at reasonable distances.
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 11:44:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By fight4yourrights: Your M4 would do fine at reasonable distances.
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So would a M4 be good in CQB in urban style areas against armor or a CAR with 16"? And I'm talking full auto weapons.
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 12:02:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Imbroglio: Yes it is sad that the "war on drugs", now the "war on guns" has degenerated to the point that the feds and militarized law enforcement has placed law abiding citizens in fear for their lives. As the to quetion asked: It will depend upon what type of body armor the JBT are wearing. Level IIIA is what most will be equipped with and 5.56 will do just fine against it. You will run into problems if the JBT are wearing level III or have a "Body Bunker" shield. Those are designed to stop .308 AP, but they are HEAVY (ceramic plate inserts) and multiple hits will weaken the armor's balistic stopping potential. An encounter with those such equipped should be responded to with 30'06 AP, a Garand being well suited for fast followup shots. Then there is level IV armor which you probably will not see too often, that stops 30'06 AP. A 300 win mag, or 300 ultra mag loaded with 308 ap bullets will solve that problem. The ultimate JBT response would be from a Barett .50 applied where movement constriction areas, like doorways (fire at lead and through the wall to the left and right of the doorway) and hallways. Multiple hits per round would be a very good possibility.
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gee imbrog|io for only owning a 10/22 and a 38 you sure know your stuff
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 1:08:23 PM EDT
I was taught stuff.
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 5:11:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2001 5:13:05 PM EDT by sharky30]
[i][b]if[/i][/b] you're still alive I'm not advocating attacking the police, but it seems everytime the ATF shows up people die
Originally Posted By Guardian: If you don't fight back would they appear to be the aggressor? Record it and sue. You could double your collection with the settlement.
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Link Posted: 9/4/2001 8:35:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/5/2001 2:13:55 AM EDT
Auto/Pump Shotgun with OOO Copper Plated Buckshot. Lay down next to door and Knee cap em as the RUSH thrue the front door. Make sure to finish em off when they all pile up in the doorway. Now you have a bunker of kevlar and jack boots to lay behind and return fire from.
Link Posted: 9/5/2001 5:17:34 AM EDT
Marshmallows and a stick. Maybe some graham crackers and hershey bars too. Smores are really good over an open flame.
Link Posted: 9/5/2001 6:29:10 AM EDT
While at a shooting range once I got to watch a Police Entry Team practicing their stuff. I thought it was kinda neat watching them, hoping they weren't entering my house. What I did notice was that there is a weak point to the whole entry. Its the legs. They are so close together, looks like they were pushing into the man in front of them I got to thinking that if you just started shooting at the legs you might just take down the first couple of guys and maybe the ones in the back have enough momentum that they would go down also. As they are going down you would have access to the shoulder area to put a few rounds above the armor. Of course, in my theoretical scenario they aren't shooting back. It would be a mighty different story if I had 5-6 subguns firing in my direction. Just something to think about. One more thing to think about, flame thrower! Once they pull up everybody is expecting a fire anyhow, might as well start it myself.
Link Posted: 9/5/2001 8:15:37 AM EDT
They're not the most effective against armor, but I've heard they work pretty well for bait.
Link Posted: 9/5/2001 10:46:20 AM EDT
Well, since you started it - How about stringing razor wire across the entry and hallways of your "fortress". If it were anchored to the wall studs by some eye hole lag bolts it should be pretty strong. A couple of strands low down would trip anybody rushing in, then some boards with nice long nails sticking up placed about where you would put your hands to stop a fall? Do they make threat level IIA gloves? I imagine this would cut down on the number of subguns that would be firing at you as you use your FAL on the now disorganized pile of "gangbangers". Not that I would advocate such a thing, but it helps to think "outside the box" sometimes. Think about the weak spots of an opponent and use them, most body armor is designed for threats from the front and rear, not the top and bottom, sometimes sides.
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