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Posted: 9/2/2001 12:56:37 AM EDT
In light of the post about the Santa Clara shooting I thought I needed to say a few things. Regardless of how Ruby Ridge and Waco turned out they were still law enforcement officers doing their jobs. Sure in retrospect we have seen where they made mistakes (mistakes=dead people). But in all seriousness if I had the BATF bursting through my door the last thing I would do is pull a gun. Now if I was a criminal well maybe I might do something else. The BATF or any other law enforcement agency in this country does a damn good job as far as I'm concerned (a hard job, with crappy pay at that). I just think that most of us as responsible law abiding gun owners should show our support for law enforcement and the jobs they do. Anybody killed in an attempt to do their job is a tragedy. Hell even if they are wrong and they burst in my house, arrest me, my girlfriend, throw my dog in the pound, and take all my guns, what good would it do to pull a gun and start shooting? I'd still get my day in court.
Link Posted: 9/2/2001 1:27:17 AM EDT
Santa Clarita btw Santa Clara was where that kid went on a shooting rampage with a .22. I think that they did talk to him through the door, he wouldn't open it. His girlfriend got out through the garage before the shooting started. I have a gut feeling that the BATF didn't have the proper paperwork on scene and Beck was demanding to see the warrant. The ATF just started busting the door down anyway. It has been reported in the media: They asked to see the warrant, the BATF said it was at the county headquarters!?! The whole reason to have a warrant on hand during a search is to ensure that our civil rights are not violated. 4th Amend = [b]"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."[/b] If a warrant is not physically on scene, then they could possibly falsify the warrant by filling in the details later. Imagine going to jail and losing all your property, all framed by forged evidence. If the BATF did not have a warrant or one in hand and started kicking in your door, what would you do? What should you do? What are your civil rights in this situation?
Link Posted: 9/2/2001 1:30:58 AM EDT
It is a well known tactic of the ATF to get blank warrants signed off by sympathetic judges and fill them in later.
Link Posted: 9/2/2001 1:33:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Sodie: If the BATF did not have a warrant or one in hand and started kicking in your door, what would you do? What should you do? What are your civil rights in this situation?
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I would be wise to hold them accountable, in Court. After all, a day in court is another day...
Link Posted: 9/2/2001 8:38:48 AM EDT
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally Posted By Sodie: If the BATF did not have a warrant or one in hand and started kicking in your door, what would you do? What should you do? What are your civil rights in this situation? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I would be wise to hold them accountable, in Court. After all, a day in court is another day... That is exactly what I would do! Regardless if my rights were being violated how would I be justified in firing at goverment agents (in just about any situation). In the end you would lose, period. However the alternative, your a live, you have the right to counsel, etc. What you have to ask yourself and all of us do, is would I have a problem with the goverment wanting to see any firearm I own? Well the answer no! I own nothing illegal. However did this guy? Did Koresch? In my opinion we live in the best country in the world. Do other countries have the rights to freedom as we do, to own firearms, hell as many as I want? But yes we still have laws, laws that are used to protect us as well as set limits. If we use free choice and break them, should we not be held accountable? It is issues like these and many others that put fuel into those who would love to take away our rights to own firearms. Just my opinion:)
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