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Posted: 9/1/2001 12:21:00 AM EDT
Just got this interesting and possibly useful bit of info- ---- Well, here goes. Tear gas, CS and CN, are typically chemicals imbedded in *smoke mix* or *pyro mix*... smoke grenade material. They are launched/thrown, and a few seconds later, *go off*, or *function*-- begin to smoke when the mix inside the case begins to burn... yes, burn. The chemical precipitates on the smoke, which is composed of nothing more than soot particles. I will speak to a condition in a house/building. If you suspect that you may receive a visit, you can be prepared. Heavy chicken wire over the windows may well prevent their entry. This can be attached to a frame and secured inside the structure, not in plain view from outside. SURPRISE! On the inside, you will need a pair of gloves, or a ready-rag or something to prevent burning your hands. Thin deerskin leather makes the best thin, rough-duty gloves I've seen. Cloth/fabric *work* gloves or anything else will work. Sodium or calcium hypochlorite (*bleach*) *kills* the CS/CN. Chemically discombobulates it. It can be purchased fairly cheaply in bulk, powder form... go to your local swimming pool store. Strategically place a few 5-gallon METAL buckets around the house, with lids, and put a quart or so dry bleach in each bucket. Leave the lid on, but loose. If you have time, even a minute or two, fill the buckets about 2/3 with water in the bath tub and quickly stir up the bleach, leaving the lid nearby, handy. When your visitors offer their hostess gifts, snatch them up and drop them in the buckets. Put the lids on, but loose. They will now be unable to start a fire (which they often otherwise do), their smoke will be largely contained, and it will be largely *neutralized* of their noxious chemical. You don't use the plastic buckets because the hot grenade will melt right through... and the smoke mix doesn't need air to burn, so once ignited, dunking it will not automatically extinguish it. And the smoke grenades will occasionally burn so fast anyway that they will *pop* the case, bursting or splitting it because it produces gas so quickly it overpressures the case, which fails. This tendency will be made worse, made more likely by submergence, because it puts a back pressure on the grenade case where the gas is being generated. The metal bucket will also help contain the pressure surge much better than plastic. If the grenade does *pop*, the pressure wave will likely propel much of the liquid from the bucket, but by that time you have largely contained their effect, anyway. Keep a BIG jar of vaseline handy, and cover all exposed skin, extending under the edges of clothing.
Link Posted: 9/1/2001 12:21:37 AM EDT
(continued) While bleach solution *kills* CS/CN, vinegar *dissolves* it... but doesn't kill it. While this suggestion may not be popular, it beats breathing the stuff-- keep several *bandana* rags around, and make them where there are several layers of fairly thin cloth... old sheets are excellent, for you can cut strips long and wide enough to be folded to give multiple layers, and have a long length suitable for wrapping around and tying. Saturate the bandana with vinegar, and tie it on. This makes for nasty breathing, but it will also capture and dissolve a sizeable percentage of the active ingredient in the tear gas smoke, making it at least possible to breathe. If they become saturated with smoke (if you have to stay in the atmosphere for a while), just pitch the old one and tie on another. This should be enough for a good starter/primer manual. I hope no one ever has to use these methods.
Link Posted: 9/1/2001 12:25:22 AM EDT
Discussion of effective, available gas masks might also be in order.
Link Posted: 9/1/2001 12:59:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By platform389: Discussion of effective, available gas masks might also be in order.
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That's what I was wondering[:)] Imbroglio, you continue to amaze me with your welth of info....keep up the excellent work. sgtar15
Link Posted: 9/1/2001 1:52:15 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/1/2001 2:48:46 AM EDT
Personally, I'd prefer a gas mask to vinegar soaked rags. While you are doing grenade disposal, what do you suppose the JBTs are doing? I somewhat suspect that they will be using their jackboots or a battering ram to bash the door in. You will then be summarily executed by firing squad for improper disposal of hazardous waste materials. Don't you just love how environmentally friendly our government is now? "Do what you will, just leave me the hell out of it."
Link Posted: 9/1/2001 9:02:27 AM EDT
[b]Do NOT add water to a bucket full of chlorine or bleach powder!!![/b] You may add powder to liquid, but never the other way around. This is usually true of any "chemical mixing" "Come and take it!"
Link Posted: 9/1/2001 10:44:47 AM EDT
I'd say get a gas mask from an army surplus store for real fun, take a pool chlorine tablet and drop it in a glass jar full of turpentine. It reacts quite violently making a nasty cloud of hot, gray/black gas, which I assume is hazardous to breath. I did this outside once after reading about it. Dropped the tablet in and before I could back away the gas hit my hand, and it was damn hot
Link Posted: 9/1/2001 11:18:23 AM EDT
Hot burning CS grenades are just one option LEOs have. I still don't know why they would use an M7A3 type grenade in a structure anyway, since they are not designed for this(and the manufacturer states this). Aerko Intl., which makes Punch II, makes an item called the Keyholer, which allows them to inject OC into any small opening. Several manufacturers makes shotgun rounds, such as the Ferret, which are liquid, not burning. Several companies also make 37/40mm liquid CN/CS/OC barricade rounds. Hand thrown aerosol/flameless expulsion grenades are readily available in OC/CS/CN. Federal Laboratories makes the 117CN and 517CS grenades, which provide the advantages of hot burning chemical agents(smaller particles), but are internally baffled to prevent sparks and flame from starting fires. These are designed for indoor use. So the question remains: why would any LEO use standard hot burning chemical agent delivery systems when safe alternatives are available?Why does the ATF have tons of these when they have no civil disturbance mission?
Link Posted: 9/1/2001 12:50:55 PM EDT
[img]wsphotofews.excite.com/033/ON/VN/FM/Qj33141.jpg[/img] There is also on the market a product called "BIOSHIELD", a decontaminant spray, that neutralizes the effects of CS, CN, ON, CR, OC, Mace, and other tear gas chemicals on humans or in confined spaces up to 5 times faster than that of normal dissipation. It is an item that every patriot should seriously consider owning in this age of paramilitary law enforcement. Look for it at your local fun show or order it on the net.
Link Posted: 9/1/2001 12:57:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 11BravoE5: So the question remains: why would any LEO use standard hot burning chemical agent delivery systems when safe alternatives are available?Why does the ATF have tons of these when they have no civil disturbance mission?
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IMMEDIATELY AFTER sherrif lee baca announced the death of the deputy, many people, including the media commentators who were watching the live feed, saw an orange flash and explosion go off in the upstairs window where the fire started. It is interesting to note that the gassing had been going on in the same room for about 1/2 hour before this occured during which time there were no flashes visible.
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