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Posted: 8/31/2001 11:15:16 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: You know there was a famous quote by JFK "Ask not what this country can do for you but what you can do for your country." Well that BATF agent was doing that. And you are glorfing yourselves in the fact that some one has killed him for doing that. I have respect for some on this forum but others I have none for. He was doing what he belived to be right. For that I commend him. If only we were as dedicated as he was. [sniper] If you actually think the BATF does things that help this country, you need to do a little studying. This guy was part of the machine that is slowly taking our rights. He knew it, and continued to do so anyway. You may commend him for slowly helping them take your freedoms, but I do not. As far as dedication, in the long run we will see who is more dedicated. I am willing to die to protect my freedoms, how many are willing to die to take them? [red]To be born free is a blessing, To live free is a right, To die free is an [i]obligation[/i][/red] |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 11:16:23 AM EDT
[#2]
[img]204.185.75.14/hs/holocaust/Ann/hitler.JPG[/img]
I too did what I believed what was right for my country. |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 11:23:23 AM EDT
[#3]
While I do not belive in this form of gun control it is established by the law of the land. What some seem not to be able to realize is that behind this mask of evil they make up there are real people And gassing Jews was the law of the land. And Himmler and Gobbels were real people. And now Celt will go into Druid mode and divine a few things about you from your writings...ohmmmmmm.... You are about 12 years old. What you know about history could be written on your thumbnail. You are loyal to your country....I just can't divine which country that is. |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 11:24:01 AM EDT
[#4]
HIELO:
First off I am not BATF or a wannabee BATF. My big problem with you is before you even heard more than a few lines of what happened you automatically began to assume what was going on and immediately began standing behind the killing of two different people. Then you say that more should die but you would never do it. Sounds like a typical armchair quarterback. You can advocate it all day long but yet you don't have the balls to do it yourself. I also remember your comments a few months back when I posted that a LEO friend of mine was killed. I didn't post the details of what all happened and you again jumped to conclusions saying something along the lines of he was probably violating someone's civil rights. I still say you are an asshole. Your problem is that you categorize all LEO's into one category...enemy. |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 11:31:14 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: HIELO: My big problem with you is before you even heard more than a few lines of what happened you automatically began to assume what was going on and immediately began standing behind the killing of two different people.... Your problem is that you categorize all LEO's into one category...enemy. You misunderstood his statement. [b]ATF = Enemy[/b] [b]Deputy = got fleas from sleeping with dogs[/b] pick a side, will ya? |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 11:46:55 AM EDT
[#6]
Ya gotta love that idiot rambling on channel 5 news. He keeps refering to the guy as a "sniper" with "many high power weaopons". Then this nerd said he might have a surface to air missle. WTF? Im sure he has a SAM site inside his garage. Gotta love the media.
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Posted: 8/31/2001 11:48:02 AM EDT
[#7]
Take notes guys, this is going to happen to each and every one of us. They will get us one by one and scare the rest into submission. No one else wants their house burned down along with all of their posessions. History is repeating itself. Remember what happened to our nation's founders?
Just once, I'd like to see an organized militia stick it back up these guys' asses with a candle on it. This "sniper" is my hero for having the balls to go out like a man. But next time, they'll come with more troops and heavier weapons and probably air support, too. And yes, the Davidians, for all their idiotic religous views, are my heroes and so is McVeigh even though he caused "collateral damage." They did something, and no matter how you feel about what they did, actions count more than words when it comes to freedom. You can't be both a free man and a statist, it doesn't work that way. |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 11:53:31 AM EDT
[#8]
BATF Burnout All Them Fu**ers(Firearms owners, 2nd Amend. supporters, etc.)
Why are they letting the house burn(destroy evidence)? They are just trying to flood the neighbors basements to see if they can piss them off also? I do feel very bad about the deputy. Am not an LEO hater by no means but sure question some of BATF's past performances. I thought when Janet left she might have taken the matches along but guess not. |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 11:54:35 AM EDT
[#9]
I applaud anyone who has the balls to stand up for their rights and lay their lives on the line for our freedom. I wish a bunch of folks would get together and attack the BATF from behind the lines. I would like to think I would do it if it happened around here.
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Posted: 8/31/2001 11:55:26 AM EDT
[#10]
Garand if you had accually read instead of skimed my post you you see that I stated he did what he belived in. If he belived in the way that the BATF helps the country then he did nothing wrong. I do not think that they are helping at all but some of you do not realize that their people not some face less enemy. It is the hypocritacal people who feel nothing for these people who have lost loved ones.
Last I checked America was supposed to be a united country. And the minute we start hating each other andappluading the killing of our fellow citizens what the hell do we become? Think about what you are saying before you open your fat cake holes would you. Like sgb says if you aren't part of the solution you are part of the problem. Well while you sit here laughing and rejoicing in some one else's death you cast a shadow of a really sick person. I don't know anyone that has killed that likes to glorify themselves in that fact. So to me you are sick just plain and simple sick. [sniper] |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 12:02:27 PM EDT
[#11]
Just out of curiosity, Rifles, what are you doing over here in the company of all us sickos?
Looking for the HCI site and get lost? |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 12:05:23 PM EDT
[#12]
It looks like the house is going to burn down tto the ground. There might have been a mix up with the tear gass cannisters, and they used incendiaries by mistake. Maybe the teargas landed on some old newspapers or something. More than likely the official investigation will reveal the truth, that the man started the fire himself with a Bic lighter.
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Posted: 8/31/2001 12:05:45 PM EDT
[#13]
Do you people think that everything that happens involving the governement is a conspiracy?
I'm not saying that never happens but once again, as happens so much on this board, the people on here jump to conclusions without ALL THE TRUE facts regarding the situation. Most of us are more intelligent to take the media's details as fact. |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 12:08:14 PM EDT
[#14]
I feel bad for the LEO's family. I hope his department will think twice before escorting any more tyrants. However, this is nothing but BAD news for their next victim. More than likely, in the future, all BATF warrants will be served with extreme violence from the beginning. The ultimate no-knock raid. Just stand back and torch the house and shoot the "criminal" gun owners and their families as they evacuate.
I sure hope GW is pissed while watching this. I also hope he will get Ashcroft to do a REAL (not like Reno) investigation of the incident. Hielo, I never really cared for too much of your commentary, but today you won me over! |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 12:08:21 PM EDT
[#15]
You know Hielo, your alright. I have nothing to add other than I wish the airlift could have begun yesterday when it would have made a difference.
Rifles, you obviously don't get the big picture. You may when you are older or know more history. This has happened here before (1775-2001). Planerench out. |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 12:08:26 PM EDT
[#16]
Undoubtedly, by the time this is over, this man will be portrayed as a child molester, LEO-impersonating, radical right-wing extremist blah blah blah blah...we will probably never know the unvarnished truth. Bear that in mind as more news becomes available.
Will YOU have the balls to squeeze off a round or 30 when the time comes? If not, sell all your shit, buy a big-screen TV, tune in and drop out. QS |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 12:09:28 PM EDT
[#17]
I don't see the problem with stock piling weapons, he probably just liked to shoot guns, I would call it more like a collection. The man probably didnt have the intent to do all this I am sure it was just a spur of the moment thing, but I am also sure that a lot more of this shit is going to happen if they keep trying to disarm people. I know I won't let them take mine without a fight.
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Posted: 8/31/2001 12:12:20 PM EDT
[#18]
They now says he has body armor and possibly [b]ATTACK[/b] dogs. [rolleyes]
I'm sure he has some sort of auto loading full automatic assult revolver. |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 12:12:30 PM EDT
[#19]
Another observation: if the guy had an illegal assault weapon, under California law, then why was the BATF even there??? Unless federal laws were violated, what businees was it of theirs?
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Posted: 8/31/2001 12:14:07 PM EDT
[#20]
You guys speculate things as bad as the media does. You automatically assume this guy is totally justified when you don't have a clue about him just like me.
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Posted: 8/31/2001 12:18:12 PM EDT
[#21]
Oh, sorry sir I thought you said Maple St. Are you sure you wanted us to go to Maple Ave. OK, will hop over there as soon as we can see through the smoke and get these damn firetrucks and helicopters outta here. That was Maple Ave. sir or Maple Rd. Oh well, lets go to Maple Ave. first and see what's there first. I still think he mighta meant Maple Drive, oh what the hell.
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Posted: 8/31/2001 12:19:12 PM EDT
[#22]
The house is on fire now, and is burning down now.
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Posted: 8/31/2001 12:19:48 PM EDT
[#23]
Another observation: if the guy had an illegal assault weapon, under California law, then why was the BATF even there??? Unless federal laws were violated, what businees was it of theirs? Basic human truth: you may do whatever you wish, until such time as someone stops you. No one's stopped them. You guys speculate things as bad as the media does. You automatically assume this guy is totally justified when you don't have a clue about him just like me. You're right...and some of the Jews sent to the ovens were probably rotten people. So your point is what? |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 12:27:42 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted: Like sgb says if you aren't part of the solution you are part of the problem. Well while you sit here laughing and rejoicing in some one else's death you cast a shadow of a really sick person. I don't know anyone that has killed that likes to glorify themselves in that fact. So to me you are sick just plain and simple sick. [sniper] You are all sick...sniper pic. WTF is that supposed to mean? If I could get me one good shot at Zemin, or Qadaffi, or Bin Laden, I'd be a real happy man. There's no shame in the murder of a tyrant, or the fools that do their bidding. You didn't seem to read Imbroglio or Celt, fool. Believing in evil doesn't make your heart pure. It just means you're stupid. Hitler, Goebbels, Himmler, were all "fellow citizens" to millions of germans. Yet at least some generals had the balls to go after Hitler anyway. Shame they failed, but would you damn them for refusing to go along with the "united" Nazi germany? Your "I wouldn't wish that[killing some kid's dad] on anybody" is pure cowardice and moral snobbishness. There comes a time when strong steps have to be taken. Better that some kids grow up orphans than babies of the third reich. The fight against gun control is meaningless whey they start hunting US down, one by one. What use is the 2nd amendment if no one is left to uphold it? I can't speak for Heilo, but I regard the BATF as the enemy, and when one of them goes down, I don't give them the benefit of the doubt. Especially now that they've resorted to arson. |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 12:29:31 PM EDT
[#25]
JAdams, you are a jerkoff. And probably a teenager, too.
[-!-] |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 12:31:30 PM EDT
[#26]
They just had some biotch neighbor speak to the news reporters. And of course, the media hand picks her to share her "opinion" with the rest of the country. She was so "scared" that someone would have such "high powered" weapons so close her precious children. Oh great, so she actually believes that no one except for the police deserve to own guns.[b]W. T. F.[/b]
They are talking to another neighbor right now, I guess he was telling all his neighbors that he was a U.S. Marshall. Is this a "burnable" offense? I feel bad for the Deputy, but why couldn't they just wait for this guy to go shopping or something? They were serving a warrant for supposed illegal weapons. What are they doing? Are they just a bunch of tough guys that have to confront a suspect while fully armed and barracaded? |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 12:33:25 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: Undoubtedly, by the time this is over, this man will be portrayed as a child molester, LEO-impersonating, radical right-wing extremist blah blah blah blah...we will probably never know the unvarnished truth. Bear that in mind as more news becomes available. Will YOU have the balls to squeeze off a round or 30 when the time comes? If not, sell all your shit, buy a big-screen TV, tune in and drop out. QS Yeah it takes guts to shoot someone at close range with a rifle. Of course he's probably one of those guys who doesn't want SWAT teams either, because that would mean he would be looking at people that had equal firepower. Stockpiling weapons isn't an crime and shouldn't be. Unless it is MG's, grenades, grenade launchers or something else. I'm not sure about the reason for the investigation, but if it is because he was impersonating a LEO, you just have to wonder what he was trying to gain. Serial rapists seem to like to impersonate authority figures, think about it. Oh, we all hate tax colllectors the bastard, wait the money they collect goes for roads, schools, garabage pick up and so on. We all [red]DEMAND[/red] services but we always think someone else should pay for them. And before you say blah, blah, blah, I'm spoiled so I shouldn't have to pay taxes, blah, blah. Unless you are living in the hills not using the roads and don't possess currency you are using government services, so shut up and pay your share. |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 12:33:52 PM EDT
[#28]
The Sheriff's dept. rep is saying that they weren't using "hot gas", and that the suspect ignited the fire himself. CNN, while he was speaking, replayed footage of the grenades being inserted. Hmmm... Bright flash upon contact. That sounds like the incendiary type, to me. Of course, he is a friend of the deputy who was regrettably shot.
The cop didn't need to die. But, I think that allowing a house to burn just to get the suspect out is outrageous. Those snorkels can easily meet the house, as they're showing now, but they were prevented from hosing the house by "investigating officers." In any case, non-payment of an ATF tax is not a capital offense, no matter what they say. Shooting a cop doing his job is wrong, but submitting to this kind of police state is also wrong. I want to know more facts, but apparently ATF isn't even saying what "federal firearms charges" were involved. For all we know, he had a non-approved muzzle attachment. AAAAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHH! Hell, even possessing a full-auto shouldn't be treated like this! This senselessness just pisses me off, and it has to end somewhere, before more people get killed. Semper Fi! Ken Little Edited for spelling |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 12:38:52 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: JAdams, you are a jerkoff. And probably a teenager, too. [-!-] Hey, hey, watch it. I understand the sentiment, but we're not ALL stupid jerkoffs. really. |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 12:46:00 PM EDT
[#30]
Hielo:
The object is to have NO ONE die, if we can at all help it. As soon as Beck killed that deputy, he was as good as dead. We need to be able to oppose ATF and unconstitutional laws WITHOUT resorting to violence. Of course, the worse it gets, the worse it gets. I support constitutional law enforcement, and law enforcement officers. This is a tragedy. No one needed to die here. Semper Fi! Ken Little |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 12:46:48 PM EDT
[#31]
Originaly posted by OLY-M4gery Oh, we all hate tax colllectors the bastard, wait the money they collect goes for roads, schools, garabage pick up and so on. We all [red]DEMAND[/red] services but we always think someone else should pay for them. And before you say blah, blah, blah, I'm spoiled so I shouldn't have to pay taxes, blah, blah. Unless you are living in the hills not using the roads and don't possess currency you are using government services, so shut up and pay your share. I don't mind paying my taxes for schools and roads. Whenever I think of taxes I always try to think of this to keep me happy. "Work hard so Americans on Welfare don't have too". Will you work if all you keep is 30 cents off every dollar? Smalls Semper Fi |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 12:47:20 PM EDT
[#32]
gus: Hielo, I never really cared for too much of your commentary, but today you won me over! ----------------------------------------- Planerench: You know Hielo, your alright.... [img]http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/mica/check.gif[/img] |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 12:51:44 PM EDT
[#33]
did they get him or not? i see the Fire Dept washing the house.
Also fox just made the WACO/ATF connection to burning out the bad guys |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 12:54:59 PM EDT
[#34]
I'm confused. Fox news just reported the sherrif's dept had a warrant to search the residence based on the impersonation of a LEO. WTF is the atf doing there? That's not there jurisdiction is it?
mike |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 12:55:13 PM EDT
[#35]
Stick a fork in him, he's done.
At least he took one with him. |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 12:58:43 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted: It is horrible seeing this happen. [b][u]This guy could be anyone of us and is most likely just like us.[/u][/b] A series of events gets out of control and you have no way out of the situation. Now it appears they have set his home on fire and will probably not let him out of this alive. There is a good chance this guy is an upstanding man and has never harmed anybody until now and this was the fault of the govt for apparently denying this mans right to the 2nd amendment. He [b][u]was[/u][/b] one of us! |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 1:01:07 PM EDT
[#37]
maybe we should do a roll call and see if he was one of us?
I'm Here!! |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 1:02:39 PM EDT
[#38]
Ok hmmm I will appologize to those who were offend by the sicko remark. Well I will appologize to most. Any one who is happy that the BATF guy died I don't appologize to you. But now you know why I hang around here cause not everyone is a sicko.
And geek4guns I put the sniper pic after every post I make so get used to it. What I am trying to say in this is that you guys seem to think that that guy was the devil himself. He wasn't and he wasnt the enemy. Finally Imbrollio that Hitler thing. Think before you say anything cause guess what you are taking joy in some one else's pain. That makes you no different. Sure Hitler did it on a grand scale. But in the center either large or small the seed still remains. I don't know if any of you have noticed this but if there is this so called war some of you are hoping for. There will be NO victors. Do any of you realise what kind of a cost the civil war was at. Brothers fought brothers. I hope it never happens. There are other ways to change what is happening instead of that but you all seem to lazy to try. You know life is sacred. You know that yet you are happy that some one lost their life. It is sad to think that some of the stuff you would rather not belive be true. [sniper] |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 1:03:16 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted: Do you people think that everything that happens involving the governement is a conspiracy? I'm not saying that never happens but once again, as happens so much on this board, the people on here jump to conclusions without ALL THE TRUE facts regarding the situation. Most of us are more intelligent to take the media's details as fact. We have to jump to conclusions as neither the government nor the media will ever give us ALL THE TRUE facts. |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 1:04:04 PM EDT
[#40]
Neil Cavuto is my personal hero. Did you guys hear him right now on FOX? He was interviewing the head of the US Mashalls and hammered him with a bunch of questions like, "Is it a crime to stockpile weapons? Why did you just let the house burn down? Is it a crime to tell your neighbors that you are a Marshall?
Man! I thought I would never get to hear our side represented on the news. [b]THUMBS UP FOR FOX[/b] |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 1:04:25 PM EDT
[#41]
From FOX: "They started yelling at him to come outside. He came to the door and said he didn't want them to hurt his dog," Cerino said. "They said, 'We don't care about the dog.' At that point, he kept saying, 'Don't hurt my dog.'
"He went back in the house and he closed his door. At that point they kept yelling at him to come out, and then his girlfriend came out through the garage," she said. Officers then tried to knock down the door and gunfire erupted as officers started to go through a window. ----- Sounds like "Break and Rake" to me, when he was about to come out. That, and the LA Sheriff's office has already lied about the gas not starting the fire. I have seen the gas insertion video a few more times, and you can DEFINITELY see a red flash under the overhang of the back porch upon insertion of a grenade, and the fire starts within seconds. This Beck guy was certainly not innocent, as he was impersonating a US Marshal, but the lies don't help the cause of law enforcement in this case. I want to hear the truth, and it is not forthcoming. Semper Fi! Ken Little |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 1:08:27 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted: Hielo: The object is to have NO ONE die, if we can at all help it. As soon as Beck killed that deputy, he was as good as dead. We need to be able to oppose ATF and unconstitutional laws WITHOUT resorting to violence. Of course, the worse it gets, the worse it gets. I support constitutional law enforcement, and law enforcement officers. This is a tragedy. No one needed to die here. Semper Fi! Ken Little You are wrong, buddy. It is the duty of all good men to oppose tyranny. Sticking flowers in the barrels of the tyrant's agents will only get you shot. Force must be met by force. That's what the cops do. |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 1:08:53 PM EDT
[#43]
The_Beer_Slayer: maybe we should do a roll call and see if he was one of us? I'm Here!! LOL! TBS, I think he's been having a little trouble with his computer today. |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 1:10:32 PM EDT
[#44]
It was just reported that [b]JAMES BECK WAS A ARCADIA POLICE OFFICER[/b]. Anyone criticizing what he did is a cop basher. He was doing what he felt was right for his country.
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Posted: 8/31/2001 1:14:33 PM EDT
[#45]
Alcohol Tobacco and [b][size=6][red]FIRE[/red]
[/size=6][/b] |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 1:21:33 PM EDT
[#46]
Now the idiot of Americas Most wanted is on Fox. Saying he had automatic weapons and guns which can kill ELEPHANTS (WTF) from 300 yards away. He must be on some of the crack he picked up last night. Quote. American Citizens should not be able to have these type of weapons.
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Posted: 8/31/2001 1:21:40 PM EDT
[#47]
and John Walsh is an Idiot also.
"They went after him cause he had too many guns" "These people have automatic weapons that can drop a bull elephant at 300 yards" |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 1:21:58 PM EDT
[#48]
Wait a minute, AP is reporting the ATF trooper is fine, and firefighters were kept from the house because the "heavily armed" gunman was still inside.
[url]http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010831/ts/warrant_shootout_7.html[\url] infernal links |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 1:25:09 PM EDT
[#49]
[url]dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010831/ts/warrant_shootout_7.html[/url]
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Posted: 8/31/2001 1:27:36 PM EDT
[#50]
From CNN Website:A law enforcement source tells CNN that Beck had previously been convicted on felony burglary and firearms violations, and that authorities were serving the search warrant because they believed Beck illegally possessed weapons in his residence.
----- Sheesh! ATF is not commenting. This is pissing me off more and more. C'mon, folks! SOMEONE tell us the truth without spinning it with some anonymous BS! Semper Fi! Ken Little |
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