[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Job hunt rant (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 6/30/2006 6:14:25 AM EDT
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I just graduated college with a nice, shiney B.S. in Computer Science (only took 4 years to get) about two months ago, and I'm out looking for my first job (in my field, I've done enough summers in factories and fast food). I've gone through monster.com, local new paper ads, and more internet job sites than I can count. Everyone want's to hire a guy with 4-6 years experience, but no one wants to let you get that experience. Every ad I've read is for a "Senior [insert programming language] Developer with [4-10] years experience". I feel like I'm just banging my head against a wall trying to find a job. I've gone through reading "What Color is Your Parachute". That's really helpful. Go out and use your contacts to find a job...Nice thing is I don't have any actual contacts in the area. Due to owing $17k in student loans and being unemployed, I'm stuck living with my parents (which really, really sucks!) in MA. I haven't lived in MA since I went off to school 5 years ago (and then college the year after that). I don't know anyone around here, and I can't really afford to fly down to TN where I went to for a job interview. I know I can apply to all of these positions that want 50+ years experience, but it just seems like it would be a waste of time, since I don't actually have the experience that they are looking for. I know I could go back to school and try for a Master's degree (well, maybe, the 2.94 undergrad GPA may keep me out of most Master's programs), but I've been in school of some type since I was three years old, and I'm tired of it. I want to actually do something instead of just learning about how something is done. It's all just really frustrating. Ok, I'll stop ranting now. And no, you can't have the last five minutes of your life back. |
I had similar issues with the OP. You still have "time to serve" so to speak. Your bitch days aren't over yet in layman's terms. Give it a year or so, DON'T GIVE UP LOOKING, and things will fall into place as long as you do your part. companies don't want to spend the time and money training you if they know you'll only leave for a better paying position afterwards. |
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I have a B.S. in C.S. and have been employed full time for about 2 years and was co-op'ing for about a year before that. If you really can't find any entry level jobs, you might try looking at college co-op/part time gigs. You won't get the pay you deserve, but it will get you some work experience and a foot in the door. Probably some good references and contacts as well. A guy I know was going this route but ended up finding an entry level job with a newly founded company. Everyone wants someone with experience, but it doesn't hurt to submit your resume just incase they can't find anyone else. |
It never hurts to put your resume up there. Go to placement agencies. If you are even vaguely qualified put your resume up. What is the worst that happens? Nothing. What is the best? They modify the postion to get the ONLY APPLICANT to send in a resume. SEND IN YOUR RESUME!! |
Welcome to the real world!! I feel your pain. You'll have to start small (TechSupport, whatever) then move up in the ranks. The employers don't know you from Adam and they are not going to hire you simply because you have a degree, any dummass with time and $$ can get one, I work at a .edu so I know what they are spitting out to the streets, it's amazing these people graduate. The employer needs a track record to look at, you have none. Suck it up and do your time eta sp |
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My brother has the same problem (same degree). I dunno. I never got the degree, but I did pay my dues in some shit computer jobs. My first one was making $100 a week in a hole in the wall computer shop. The next one was making $9/hr as a tech. Then $10.50 a year later for another company. Then $30K, then $35K...(you get the idea). I was doing it for 4 or 5 years before I made really good money at it. Starting out at the bottom is easier when you're 16 (like I was) with no student loans.  Keep at it, and accept that you're going to accept a low paying entry level position on somebody's helpdesk, or something. I don't envy you. |
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My recommendation would be to look for a network administrator / guru type job with a growing consulting company. I will be a step below what you feel you went to school for but it will allow you to get your foot in the door. After you start working, there will likely be opportunities to join teams executing tasks that require database development and the ability to move data from one program to another such as importing Excell data into Access or Primaver Project Planner (project management software). Once you prove your diverstity and flexibility management will start to move you into other tasks and eventually move you up to a consultant and replace the network admin position. Your goal is to get on board with a good company at any level and bust your ass for several months and the cream will rise to the top. |
No they just want experience in THAT position. Time to lower your standards until you get experience. Sorry, when I hire someone if they both do good on the interview and it comes to one with experience and no degree and one with a degree and no experience I will ALWAYS take the one with experience. At least I know he can do the job. WAY TO many green peas straight out of college have no idea how things work. THat being said I don't have a degree but for my job I hould have minimum a Bachelors degree. Perfered a Master. Get the experience then get the job you want. |
I dunno. I don't think I've ever met a recent CS grad who was capable of jumping right in as a net admin. It's waaaaay different than what school prepared him for. |
You know more about it than I do, but I guess the point is to figure how to get in the door and then prove what you can do by working your ass off. |
Yup. That's really the only way. You've got to sacrafice for a while. The degree helps, all things being equal. If two candidates don't have any experience and one is degreed, the grad usually gets the job. Now, if he's going up against a very experienced candidate with no degree, he'll probably be out of luck. You're right - get your foot in the door. If I wanted to be a programmer, there are plenty of ways I could muscle my way into it where I work. |
+1...We are the new steel workers. Everyone has a C.S. degree. When I started my degree everyone said that there was a huge demand. By the time I graduated there was not nearly as much.
School is one thing, but if the guy is really into computers I think this is very possible. I could have done it and I'm certain my brother could have as well, along with a couple of other "computer nerds" I know. Of course I had alot of networking and admin work experience before college. |
That's the difference. 
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I started out doing dispatch and Tech Support for a local ISP that was just getting off the ground. I did that, second shift, for about $9/hr for a year and a half. Then I moved to full-time tech support, working first and second shift on a rotating schedule that sucked ass. Did that for two years. Then there was an opening in the company's IT department. I was actually offered the job by the IT boss before he posted the position. He knew I did good work and was dependable. I was working toward a degree, but I didn't have one yet. I started doing COBOL programming for their old billing software. Now I'm a SQL database admin and general PC support technician making a pretty nice salary. Never did go back to finish my degree. In short, you may have to do some crap work in the trenches of level 1 tech support for a while before better jobs become available. I'm very fortunate to have the job I do, but I did pay my dues in getting there. |
Yup. That's the long and short of it. That said, your school should have some sort of placement assistance, or you can scour the Web looking for places like Management Recruiters and Fortune Personnel Consultants, who are recruiters who get paid by the companies when they place someone. Contact them and more often than not they'll help you with the resume polishing. Oh, and that time you worked in the factories? If you did it in IT, it COUNTS, my boy! Don't sell yourself short! |
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I really hate the idea of going back to tech support. I've been in small schools (60-80 student private high schools, 2200 student university), and I've always ended up working in the computer labs. I did two years at Greater Boston Academy as a "Computer Lab Monitor" doing tech support, along with teaching the computer teacher who had no experience with computers. Then I went out to Union Springs Academy, where they didn't even have a computer teacher, and I ended up running the computer lab along with a couple friends (and also provided all the tech support/repairs/upgrade work for faculty computers). Off to college and I spent three years as a "Lab Consultant" (tech support) in the School of Computing's General Lab, and then I spent a year as the "Student Lab Supervisor" (in charge of the guys doing the tech support in the lab). It's just something I was really hoping to be done with. Where I went to school, close to 70% of the C.S. students either drop out or at least give up on computing within the first two years. Hell, out of the five guys I was good friends with as a freshman, 4 of them switched majors out of C.S., and the other dropped out of school. It's just frustrating that after all the work to actually get the degree (and the $90k in tuition), and it seems like at this point, I'm no better off than I was four years ago (worse actually; $17k in student loans). I'm going to take a break from searching and ranting on the internet for a while to go take a hike and get some fresh air/exercise. |
I don't have a degree, but I've been doing computer work for myself and other self employed computer guys in SE WI for 6 years in the home dpt with some networking experience. I'm not sure what you are looking for but I am willing to learn anything and love the computer field. I'm looking for another job again and have an interview today at a small liquor store for extra money. No one will hire me becuase I don't have a college degree and no money to get one. |
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Yup I know the feeling, and I have about 3 years fulltime experience past college right now and I still deal with that. Luckily I just got a good job a few weeks ago after a couple months of searching while I had the previous one (which was contract). I suggest trying the intern route or searching on the keyword 'entry' in job search sites because those are the only ones you're likely to get. Dice.com is a good one if you haven't used it yet. Careerbuilder also had a lot more IT jobs than Monster when I was looking. Put your resume out there if you have any experience worth mentioning, because lots of companies have their own dedicated HR headhunters or they outsource it to a recruiting company and that's where the bulk of my interviews came from. Since you have spare time while you look, start doing something productive and learn an in-demand programming language or skill if you can and develop some websites or applications that you can showcase in an interview. This will really give you a leg up on people who are trying to get the same jobs and have similar experience levels as yourself. Shows you have the motivation to learn and a fundamental understanding of the concepts needed for the job. |
There is one problem---GET BACKTO IT!!!!!!! Job aint gonna find you!!! anyway....methinks you a re gonna have elsucko job for a while-0 rare to get a really good (out of collidge)job You would not believe some of the shit jobs i had before i found what i was looking for... |
Wine lover in a liquor store....hmmm fox in the henhouse? |
Sometimes. I've got to tell you, not everybody that comes out of the military looking for a job in IT is qualified. Often times, I sit and wonder what it was they did in "technology" while they were in. I've interviewed a few Air Force vets who really didn't know much, despiste having done SOMETHING related to technology for 10 years. The guys I interviewed had awful troubleshooting skills. It suprised me, to tell you the truth. I think the problem is they don't think for themselves enough, but I could be wrong. I get this feeling that even in computers, they are given VERY specific tasks and aren't free to experiment and try new things. There are exceptions, of course. The smartest MCSE I ever worked with was fresh out of the Air Force when we hired him. He readily admits that it wasn't his Air Force training that helped as much as it was his studying in his free time. More than just studying for paper, this guy LIVED it. I rarely see someone as dedicated to technology as this guy was. He's told me that his time in the Air force didn't help him one bit, other than the normal discipline, work ethic, character thing (also important). |
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I got my first job out of college with same degree because I KNEW someone. I still had the skills, but having someone on the in really helps. A referral from someone inside the company make a big difference. Do your parents know of friends that work in a tech company or are management in a company that needs tech people? Just remember you aren't going to make the big bucks right out of college. Take something that you can get that makes a decent wage. You gotta get experience as well. Employers want that. Remember you are "green" and most employers don't want to risk hiring someone that has no experience. |
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I hated that myself. But apply for the jobs that want the experience anyway. Other places to look... Some large and well known corps like young people with new ideas. Some very small companies that have an open mind and want to stay hip. Also, gov job where they will even hire anyone with a pulse. The last 2 jobs I got were via monster. In your resume include alot of keywords and brand names of software, hardware, etc you are familiar with. Monster functions alot like a google search. Also, watch out for automated systems, recruiters, and contractors. The automated systems send an email to you regardless of your location to the job and only pickup a few keywords. Recruiters are out to make a buck for themselves and will run you around from place to place with no downside for them. Sometimes they are only used to make a company look like they interviewed "fairly" for a job when the company already knew who they were going to hire. Contractors are usually OK. But there can be discrepancies between what they tell you and what actually happens on the job. Plus, you will sometimes have several bosses. A supervisor from the contracting company, and a supervisor from the place you're working at. I had particular problems with a contractor called ASE, a division of Booze Allen. It took me 3 months out of college to find a job. However, I was doing better then some others that had graduated years ahead of me. A year out of college, and I've increased my salary over $20k more and I'm working at a place I really love with competent and considerate people. -Foxxz |
Sorry, but no company wants a network admin with no experience. Maybe tech support or help desk, but not admin... |
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We hire new grads. At a very fair rate. you're cheap, you work hard and you don't know anything so you can do it OUR way. it sucks, but you get work experience. Actually the couple college grads I have hired work very hard, they just need some mentoring to learn the ropes. Jobs are out there, but they aren't advertised a lot Look on company boards at big places. They are always hiring new blood. |
Very true It depends on what you do in the Air Force... and your passion for it... Some of the computer systems we work on are almost 40 years old! Some are state of the art. Some military systems use protocols that were developed exclusively for the military. I'll tell you what though...I have developed a very diverse background in communications technology and project management in just seven years. I have worked with all kinds of DSL setups, large ATM/LANE implementations, Gigabit ethernet, Vlans and trunking, multiplexers, various types of serial protocols, all versions of windows, various propietary systems that use Solaris or Linux. DHCP, DNS, WINS, firewalls, IGRP, EIGRP, OSPF, RIP, TCP/IP, IPX/SPX, Even done appletalk... Cisco 2900, 2950, 3500, 3750, 4000, 4500, 5500, 6500, 7200, and 7500series. All sorts of 3Com stuff (back when 3Com was selling enterprice ATM) Have even got to work with all sorts of cabling systems, CatIII, V, VI. Multimode, Single mode, even learned how to terminate and splice fiber optic cables and use an OTDR. Not to mention all of the military propietary gear and protocols you have never even heard of. I have three classes to go before I recive my MSCIS...most of the people I go to class (civilians) with do not even know what a VLAN is and they have jobs that pay more than mine  It's all about the person. If they love communications, their is a lot to learn. But some just don't have a pasion for it. They read the manual, do things step by step, and never bother to look into the theory of operation or develop advanced troubleshooting skills. I remember once offering to let a young airman help me install and configure the routing and vlan setup on a Cisco 6509, about $100K worth of equipment. He did not care. He showed no interest in what I was doing. I found someone else who was interested and moved on... Even though I get stuck working with shitty old systems sometimes, I look on the bright side. People have to know how to integrate these systems with modern communcations equipment. It is good to have a working knowledge of older communications technologies. Best comm career fields in the AF to hire from are 2E2X1 and 3C0X1... |
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Local companies you may want to try- Citizens Bank and Fidelity (MA, RI, NH, etc........) Metlife (RI) CVS (RI) I know it's frustrating...my wife is doing the job hunt now, she's an applications developer with lots of design and development experience. Don't give up............... |
O geez here you go again. Not everyone has to eat sleep and shit computers to do OK in this industry. Most guys put 10 years and move on and its just the way it is. THe industry was pretty much designed to flush the old people out and bring in the new. |
| I'm in a similar boat. Spent 6 years in the Navy, the whole time everyones telling me "Dude, your too smart for this, get out and go to college". Four years later, I've got a B.S. in political science and a commission in the National Guard, but so far no luck finding a job. Its gotten to the point that a job at Burger King is starting to look good. |
This is exactly right. Find a Help Desk job or similar at a company that has a large development staff. Work you ass off for a couple years, keep your eyes open for an opportunity to assist the developers and hopefully get yourself in front of whomever is managing that department. Just be a go getter and once you've shown how valuable you are make sure you let them know you really want to be a developer, etc. Make sure to keep your skills as fresh as possible during this time, concentrating especially on whatever platform they write in at that company (.NET, Java, etc).
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I hear you man. I graduated in 2004 with a BA in History, applied all over USAjobs.com and not so much as a nibble.  Talk about a degree with no demand. I've pretty much resigned myself to the face that I'm Al Bundy. So now I'm getting a Masters in Education and going to teach. Good luck with the job search.
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+1..also, check out the Cambridge job market. TONS of IT jobs to be had in Cambridge. Genzyme..Amgen, etc. I worked at Genzyme, they were always looking for IT people. |
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I was kind of the same way. Grad with CS 2002. Luckily I found a job pretty quick. What worked best for me was I had a specialty on top of my CS degree. I didn't take any classes on the subject, it was all self taught but applied from what I learned in school. So, I guess narrow down what you're trying to look for and go balls out toward that. If you want to program, pick a language and get really good at that. I knew 13 different languages when I left school but I was really good at one, and that's what I'm doing right now and have been for the past 4 years. Good Luck. -JTP |
Fuck, I have a master's and I got turned down for FOUR fucking jobs this week. |
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It took me two months to find a job that met my income requirements after I got back from being a civilian contractor in Kuwait...and it's not even in my chosen field. I was making nice cash in Kuwait and knew I wouldn't be able to get the same pay back in the U.S. All I wanted was to be making the same $$$ after I got home that I was making before I left to go over there. I have good experience in the area in which I'll be working but it's not my first choice. What hurts the worst is that I had a nice "nest egg" built up...but I had to use most(aboout 70%) of it up while looking for a job. You do what you have to do to make a living. Life's a Bitch. Make the most of the ride... 
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- Polish your resume, style it and make it look good, and then post it on Monster. - Since you have a ton of spare time, spin up your own website and blog. On your website start building a portfolio, showing off your professional skills. - Seek out and get involved in a local computer user's group. Ruby is hot right now, so find your nearest Ruby Brigade group and start attending the meetings. This is a great way for a new grad to start building a network. If I think of more I'll post em... |