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Posted: 4/13/2006 10:29:37 AM EDT
I'm just curious b/c I've got plenty of 'range quality' ammor for my pistols stocked up, but not much of the hollow point type. I suppose I should have more of the good stuff on hand for when SHTF, but that stuff is WAYYYY more expensive.

What type of ammo do you have saved for SHTF for .45 ACP?
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:31:34 AM EDT
range ammo beats throwing rocks or poking with sharp sticks
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:33:05 AM EDT
Mostly, when or if the SHTF, quantity is going to matter more than quality. I keep all kinds on hand for all-occasion shooting...
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:33:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
range ammo beats throwing rocks or poking with sharp sticks



+1

any ammo is good ammo
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:34:13 AM EDT
Get both!

Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:34:26 AM EDT
Ball for SHTF. I simply can't afford to stash quality hollowpoints in quantity.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:36:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:
Ball for SHTF. I simply can't afford to stash quality hollowpoints in quantity.



+1. For my pistols I stockpile WWB.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:37:09 AM EDT
Ranier Ballistics has some decent hollow points for good prices. They're not "high-tech" like the Ranger-T or Gold Dot bullets, but they are hollow points.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:38:32 AM EDT
I don't see much need for super high quality handgun ammo. I try to keep a mag of both fmj and hp for whatever situation arises. But I've always viewed handguns as a weapon of last resort. I wouldn't want to have my life depending on a 50 yard pistol shot, but again, that's just me. If you're blasting away OK corral style with someone, you are in a pretty f'ed up situation.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:41:30 AM EDT
I picked up 200 rounds of premium .40 Federal Tactical hollowpoints pretty cheap from ammoman (before he turned to the dark side). I figure they will keep for at least five years or so before I have to even begin to worry about failures to fire. When you think about it, buying some premium hollow points once every five years or so isn't too bad. If the SHTF I have plenty of the good stuff.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:42:55 AM EDT
I always have a couple K of 45 ACP and 9mm around (and I carry a 45), but it's mainly because I have subguns in those calibers. The 147 gr 9mm subsonic and the supresssor with my Uzi will come in handy when TSHTF. Make it much harder for the zombies to find my location
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:43:01 AM EDT
if FMJ is good enough for the Army in shtf, its good enough for me.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:44:34 AM EDT



"Quantity has a quality all its own."

Josef Stalin
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:46:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By niceguymr:
, but that stuff is WAYYYY more expensive.



What is your life worth?

Typically .45 ACP is $12/box 50 FMJ

I can buy Black Hills Red Box (new Mfg) 230gr Gold Dots (one of the best) for $26 for 50 rounds.

Is your life worth the extra $0.28 per round?
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:49:34 AM EDT
Or just use a rifle?

I found some pretty cheap hollowpoints at Wally World, but 95% of my SHTF pistol ammo is FMJ.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:49:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Forest:

Originally Posted By niceguymr:
, but that stuff is WAYYYY more expensive.



What is your life worth?

Typically .45 ACP is $12/box 50 FMJ

I can buy Black Hills Red Box (new Mfg) 230gr Gold Dots (one of the best) for $26 for 50 rounds.

Is your life worth the extra $0.28 per round?



when we are talking thousands on thousands of rounds, Ill take the $12 box.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:51:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/13/2006 10:56:24 AM EDT by BillofRights]
Ball ammo was good enough for our guys to prevail in every war our Nation has fought.

I honestly can't think of a realistic shtf scenario where your very survival would depend upon you having hollowpoints instead of ball ammo.

Any ammo that makes .45 cal holes, and has proven to be accurate and reliable will be sufficient for you purposes.


Another consideration is that shtf implies less then ideal conditions. Even a quality .45 that feeds HP flawlessly, will likely feed Ball ammo better when dirty.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:52:04 AM EDT
Reload. I keep 800 rounds 9mm +P 124gn Golddots in a 50cal can just for SHTF.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:52:34 AM EDT
I'd feel comfortable capping a zombie with .45 ACP ball.

I wouldn't feel comfortable with 9mm ball though.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:52:59 AM EDT
Who's paying $12 for 50 rounds???

Buy it by the case at Dicks for $9.98/box (once I got it for $8.98/box in case quantities) - and if you get an Entertainment book you can save even more on a $100 purchase.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:53:43 AM EDT
If social order completely breaks down, you will be better served by having a large quantity of ammo rather than having the best quality ammo. Thus FMJs seem to be the way to go, as you can buy more bang for the same buck before society collapses.

With pistol rounds it shouldn't matter too much, as you ought to be carrying a rifle in such circumstances anyway....
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:54:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GlocksareGood:
Reload. I keep 800 rounds 9mm +P 124gn Golddots in a 50cal can just for SHTF.



Not a bad idea.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:56:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/13/2006 10:56:41 AM EDT by KnobCreek]

Originally Posted By dsg2003gt:

Originally Posted By Forest:

Originally Posted By niceguymr:
, but that stuff is WAYYYY more expensive.



What is your life worth?

Typically .45 ACP is $12/box 50 FMJ

I can buy Black Hills Red Box (new Mfg) 230gr Gold Dots (one of the best) for $26 for 50 rounds.

Is your life worth the extra $0.28 per round?



when we are talking thousands on thousands of rounds, Ill take the $12 box.



It isn't a question of cheap versus expensive. It's reliability. For SHTF pistol ammo, look for the most inexpensive reliably functioning ammo to stock up on. It certainly should NOT cost you $520/thousand ($26x20) to achieve this.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 11:01:46 AM EDT
I can buy winchester ranger t ammo in .40 for $14 a box of 50.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 11:03:56 AM EDT
Bought a few Speer GoldDots in 250rd. cartons for about $13 per 50. It says for practise use, but I never had a problem yet.

I'd probably load those up before I tap my FMJ supply.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 11:07:13 AM EDT
I keep a box or 2 of what I term "self-defense ammo" around in each caliber. That's what I keep my handguns loaded with while they're in the safe. That covers me when I pull one out to CCW and if I have an immediate need for one around the house.

If things go to hell, I have no problem falling back on my "cheap" stuff. Ball may not do as well as the good HP stuff, but it works and I can afford a lot more of that than the fancy stuff.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 11:08:42 AM EDT
Its only an extra $2-4/100 for Remington JHPs over Winchester FMJ value packs ($2ish for 9mm, $4 for .45), so I just get the Remington stuff.

Kharn
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 11:09:03 AM EDT
I bet a lot of Arfcommers would poop their dungarees if they knew that I even carry ball in my CCW backup mag.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 11:11:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
I'd feel comfortable capping a zombie with .45 ACP ball.

I wouldn't feel comfortable with 9mm ball though.



IIRC, 9mm ball shows better skull/bone penetration than .45ACP ball.
Where are you gonna shoot them zombies, again?
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 11:13:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Forest:

Originally Posted By niceguymr:
, but that stuff is WAYYYY more expensive.



What is your life worth?

Typically .45 ACP is $12/box 50 FMJ

I can buy Black Hills Red Box (new Mfg) 230gr Gold Dots (one of the best) for $26 for 50 rounds.

Is your life worth the extra $0.28 per round?



I respect your opinion Forest. But I am going to have to disagree here. I'm not worried IN THE LEAST about a hollowpoint "tactical" round being superior to good old ball ammo in a SHTF situation. I tend to agree with the "quantity is more important than quality" opinion in that case. I carry my 1911's with HP rounds now, but come SHTF I am going to be using my AR or M1A and if I have to go to my pistol it ain't gonna make a hill-O-beans' difference whether the .45 cal bullets have a hole in them or not. In fact, against determined and possibly well-equiped foes, I'd rather have a bullet that holds together a little better in case I have to penetrate layers or equipment hanging off of a tac vest or something. But if it comes down to that I am in deep anyways...
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 11:15:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:
I bet a lot of Arfcommers would poop their dungarees if they knew that I even carry ball in my CCW backup mag.



I carried ball in BOTH my full-size and officer's 1911's until last month. Didn't want to hassle with worrying about feeding issues. But I've found some Winchester 230 grain hollowpoints that seem to feed in both guns, so I'm carrying that right now. Another tactic I've had success with in the past is alternating ball and hollowpoints. Seems to make just enough of a difference when fired quickly that it may be worthwhile.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 11:24:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/13/2006 11:26:34 AM EDT by Centuryhouse]
I've got about 2,000 rounds of Speer GoldDot JHP in 9mm 124gr +p, and another 3,000 rounds of SpeerGD & Ranger "T" JHP in .40 (155gr, 165gr and 180gr) that I'm keeping in reserve.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 11:28:14 AM EDT
The S is not going to hit the F.

At least, not in a way in which having a huge stockpile of ammo is going to help you any.

But if I were going to hoard ammo, it would be reloads.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 11:35:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Red_Label:
I respect your opinion Forest. But I am going to have to disagree here. I'm not worried IN THE LEAST about a hollowpoint "tactical" round being superior to good old ball ammo in a SHTF situation.


Why in a SHTF situation is your life any less valuable or at risk than during a home invasion or CCW situation?


I tend to agree with the "quantity is more important than quality" opinion in that case.

I see several people say that. However I'd like to remind everyone of a few things.
1) Your 1911 only carries 7 (or 8) rounds. A 50 round box of Black Hills will load 7 magazines (plus one for the chamber ) How many people carry 5-6 spare handgun magazines (we'll assume 1 is in the pistol)?

If you even THINK you're going to need that many magazines wouldn't you be better off with a longarm of some kind (like an AR-15 for example)?


... if I have to go to my pistol it ain't gonna make a hill-O-beans' difference whether the .45 cal bullets have a hole in them or not.
Then why use them now?

If your rifle goes down for whatever reason (broken part/out of ammo/bad jam etc) and you have to transition to a sidearm I'd want that sidearm to be as effective as possible. And every piece of data shows us hollowpoints do a better job at stopping 2 legged threats than FMJ.


In fact, against determined and possibly well-equiped foes, I'd rather have a bullet that holds together a little better in case I have to penetrate layers or equipment hanging off of a tac vest or something.

That is why you choose a GOOD round (like the Gold Dot) that meets the FBI specs, rather than a Wal-Mart special.


But if it comes down to that I am in deep anyways...

You sure are, but would you rather dig your way out with a teaspoon or a trowel?
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 11:38:10 AM EDT
I keep 500 rds of the good stuff around for serious use/occasional practice/testing new mags.

I also keep lots of regular ball ammo for practice. Ball isn't great, but it's better than nothing once the good stuff runs out. I get the good stuff for $185/500 rds delivered, so it's not too bad.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 11:43:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ken_mays:
The S is not going to hit the F.At least, not in a way in which having a huge stockpile of ammo is going to help you any.

But if I were going to hoard ammo, it would be reloads.



heresy!!



Link Posted: 4/13/2006 11:45:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By billclo:
I keep 500 rds of the good stuff around for serious use/occasional practice/testing new mags.

I also keep lots of regular ball ammo for practice. Ball isn't great, but it's better than nothing once the good stuff runs out. I get the good stuff for $185/500 rds delivered, so it's not too bad.



Yep. Keep a stash of 'good ammo' and another of 'training ammo'. You can always us the training ammo if the 'good stuff' runs out in an emergency situation.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 12:24:56 PM EDT
What's the shelflife on pistol ammo? I probably should just start another thread, but I'll just leave that question here for now...

Link Posted: 4/13/2006 12:27:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By niceguymr:
What's the shelflife on pistol ammo? I



Indefinate on quality factory ammo kept in a cool dry place. It should outlast you.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 12:29:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By niceguymr:
What's the shelflife on pistol ammo? I probably should just start another thread, but I'll just leave that question here for now...





Just as long as military surplus if it is stored properly.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 2:10:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Forest:

Originally Posted By Red_Label:
I respect your opinion Forest. But I am going to have to disagree here. I'm not worried IN THE LEAST about a hollowpoint "tactical" round being superior to good old ball ammo in a SHTF situation.


Why in a SHTF situation is your life any less valuable or at risk than during a home invasion or CCW situation?


I tend to agree with the "quantity is more important than quality" opinion in that case.

I see several people say that. However I'd like to remind everyone of a few things.
1) Your 1911 only carries 7 (or 8) rounds. A 50 round box of Black Hills will load 7 magazines (plus one for the chamber ) How many people carry 5-6 spare handgun magazines (we'll assume 1 is in the pistol)?

If you even THINK you're going to need that many magazines wouldn't you be better off with a longarm of some kind (like an AR-15 for example)?


... if I have to go to my pistol it ain't gonna make a hill-O-beans' difference whether the .45 cal bullets have a hole in them or not.
Then why use them now?

If your rifle goes down for whatever reason (broken part/out of ammo/bad jam etc) and you have to transition to a sidearm I'd want that sidearm to be as effective as possible. And every piece of data shows us hollowpoints do a better job at stopping 2 legged threats than FMJ.


In fact, against determined and possibly well-equiped foes, I'd rather have a bullet that holds together a little better in case I have to penetrate layers or equipment hanging off of a tac vest or something.

That is why you choose a GOOD round (like the Gold Dot) that meets the FBI specs, rather than a Wal-Mart special.


But if it comes down to that I am in deep anyways...

You sure are, but would you rather dig your way out with a teaspoon or a trowel?



I agree with Forest, I want the best "stopping power" I can get in any defensive situation. And a home invasion or car jacking IS a SHTF just as much as a disaster.
Also I don't think that it is realistic to think that you will be expending hundreds or thousands of rounds during a shtf. My reason for stocking up on ammo is long term availability issues.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 2:21:58 PM EDT


230 grain Gold Dots. When I reload for .45ACP I generally do a few boxes of these and a couple of boxes of Precision Bullets 230gr round nose for practice.
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