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Posted: 4/12/2006 4:55:15 PM EDT
Alright, I met this guy a few years ago who was a bodyguard for a family friend of mine. He moved here from SA in the 90's after bieng in the SA military. This guy told me about some pretty out there stuff that was going on. He was talking about missions in Angola, and a few other countries, fighting the Chinese and Soviets, insurgents etc. Guy is covered with scars and whole family was killed by rebel insurgents. The guy's as hard as a coffin nail, and it was fascinating hearing his stories.

What the hell was going on there? Does any body know the history? Im curious becuase Ive never heard about any of the things he has told me about in any history lesson or book that Ive read.

thanks
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 4:58:08 PM EDT
Ever heard of Apartheid?

Semper Fi
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 4:58:29 PM EDT
damn son, don't you have the obligatory lifetime subscription to sof magazine!?
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 4:58:40 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 5:00:04 PM EDT
all the shit he says is true. the sadf was probably the best coin army in the western world. our new cougar and buffalo mineproof vehicles were developed by them years ago.

your friend must be from swa, now namibia.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 5:00:25 PM EDT
The only things I know about South Africa I learned from Lethal Weapon 2.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 5:00:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By USMC2111:
Ever heard of Apartheid?

Semper Fi



Yeah Ive heard of it. Something like there was an apartheid govt, then communists took over or something. Thats about the extent of my knowledge on the subject. I'm starting to read a book called "Continent Ablaze" which is documents all the rebel and government conflicts, but Ive just started it.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 5:02:16 PM EDT
um, google?
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 5:02:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/12/2006 5:05:09 PM EDT by hardcorps1775]

Originally Posted By tacman22:

Originally Posted By USMC2111:
Ever heard of Apartheid?

Semper Fi



Yeah Ive heard of it. Something like there was an apartheid govt, then communists took over or something. Thats about the extent of my knowledge on the subject. I'm starting to read a book called "Continent Ablaze" which is documents all the rebel and government conflicts, but Ive just started it.


that's just "recent" history. not exactly communist but black nationalist. sa went from being the jewel of africa to just another african shit hole real fast...but still not as bad as the rest of the continent, surprisingly...

ETA: "jewel of africa" as long as you weren't black african, indian, or chinese...apartheid was stupid and the afrikaaners held onto it just a l-i-t-t-l-e too long...
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 5:05:02 PM EDT
All you'll read in the history books is about how the SA military and police oppressed and brutalized the poor black natives under Apartheid and that Nelson Mandela is such a hero. Talk to any white South African to get the real scoop. That country is going downhill fast under "majority rule".
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 5:07:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hardcorps1775:

Originally Posted By tacman22:

Originally Posted By USMC2111:
Ever heard of Apartheid?

Semper Fi



Yeah Ive heard of it. Something like there was an apartheid govt, then communists took over or something. Thats about the extent of my knowledge on the subject. I'm starting to read a book called "Continent Ablaze" which is documents all the rebel and government conflicts, but Ive just started it.


that's just "recent" history. not exactly communist but black nationalist. sa went from being the jewel of africa to just another african shit hole real fast...but still not as bad as the rest of the continent, surprisingly...



Yeah, this guy I talked to had a pretty big chip on his shoulder and said alot of things that Im not going to repeat here for CoC reasons, you get the picture.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 5:10:56 PM EDT
An old arfcommer (who may have, IIRC, lived or fought in SA/SWA at one time) once told me to read up on Koevoet.

I can't remember if he sent me this link, or if I found it myself afterwards.

Remember first that anything you read has a bias because it was written by a human with biases.

http://www.dispatch.co.za/2000/09/28/features/KOEVOET.HTM

Though it probably isn't considered a "hostile" website, if it's just the same I'd prefer to keep the link cold.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 5:11:30 PM EDT
hey, he lost his country and the place where his family is buried. i can understand the anger!

sometimes i feel the same thing here.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 5:14:41 PM EDT
This is going to sound harsher than I mean it to be, but what are you, 18 years old? I'm only 25 and I know that South Africa is and has always been (at least for this century and most of last century) a war-torn shithole. Between apartheid, the diamond trade and plain old gang warfare, it's a wonder anyone still chooses to live there.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 5:18:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LadyLiberty:
This is going to sound harsher than I mean it to be, but what are you, 18 years old? I'm only 25 and I know that South Africa is and has always been (at least for this century and most of last century) a war-torn shithole. Between apartheid, the diamond trade and plain old gang warfare, it's a wonder anyone still chooses to live there.



Let me clarify what I am asking about. I know there are alot of military buffs on this site and alot of active military and ex-military. I was wondering if anyone had any info on thier counterinsurgency operations, gear they had, weapons, any cool facts. Supposedly they had the best COIN forces in the world, some that later turned into Executive Outcomes, etc. Im not trying to talk politics, just wanting to learn anything I havent heard before. I'm 22 BTW
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 5:21:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/12/2006 5:24:52 PM EDT by hardcorps1775]
there was an old south african saying that the only way they'd ever leave their country was walking backwards into the ocean firing their r1's 'til they ran out of ammo. they always considered themselves real "white" africans as opposed to rhodesians, who'd only been around 100yrs or so.

ETA: lotta good books on coin ops and such, look for stuff by a.j. ventner, old issues of sof on ebay, maybe amazon.com? there are also some sadf webpages online written by real sadf vets.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 5:26:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/12/2006 5:31:35 PM EDT by ikor]
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 5:34:12 PM EDT
BE A MAN AMOUNGST MEN.......RHODESIAN SELOUS SCOUTS

There was alot going on,,Angola,,Congo,,Rwanda,,,,Chad

Do find it curious he doesn't mention Cubans,,A VERY good friend fought there,and had the pics to prove it.
Imagine a 6ft 3in in a "Samuri" Jeep style vehicle,,he loved it,,get stuck,,just get out pik it up and move it . Hated AR's.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 5:38:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tacman22:

Originally Posted By LadyLiberty:
This is going to sound harsher than I mean it to be, but what are you, 18 years old? I'm only 25 and I know that South Africa is and has always been (at least for this century and most of last century) a war-torn shithole. Between apartheid, the diamond trade and plain old gang warfare, it's a wonder anyone still chooses to live there.



Let me clarify what I am asking about. I know there are alot of military buffs on this site and alot of active military and ex-military. I was wondering if anyone had any info on thier counterinsurgency operations, gear they had, weapons, any cool facts. Supposedly they had the best COIN forces in the world, some that later turned into Executive Outcomes, etc. Im not trying to talk politics, just wanting to learn anything I havent heard before. I'm 22 BTW



Ah. I get it now. Nevermind, carry on (like you needed my permission, LOL).
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 5:42:55 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 6:09:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ikor:

Originally Posted By wise_jake:
An old arfcommer (who may have, IIRC, lived or fought in SA/SWA at one time) once told me to read up on Koevoet.

I can't remember if he sent me this link, or if I found it myself afterwards.

Remember first that anything you read has a bias because it was written by a human with biases.

http://www.dispatch.co.za/2000/09/28/features/KOEVOET.HTM

Though it probably isn't considered a "hostile" website, if it's just the same I'd prefer to keep the link cold.


If you did, in fact, read up on them, then you know that Koevoet translates roughly to "Crowbar", that they were SA Police, not military, and that they were extremely successful in SWA / Namibia. Right? (I did not read the websites)


"Yes" to all 3-4 (depending on how you're counting) assertions.

That said, however, my understanding is that while they were *technically* police (and not .mil), it wasn't quite the distinction we have in the U.S.

While admittedly no expert, if I had to rank them on a continuum, I'd say they were closer to .mil than police. If we shoehorn them into a U.S.-centric "police" definition, however, I'd call them SOS (SWAT On Steroids).

Or at least that's my understanding.
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