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Posted: 4/11/2006 10:58:19 PM EDT
OK so, kid wants to protest... schools says "no"
Kid is upset... goes home and kills himself.
Stepdad is in trouble for not locking his gun... WTF??

AM I MISSING SOMETHING HERE????????


ONTARIO - Police investigating the suicide of a middle-schooler say the boy's stepfather could face criminal charges for allegedly not securing the rifle the boy used to kill himself.
Anthony Soltero, 14, shot himself March 30. According to the family's attorney, the De Anza Middle School student was distraught after a vice principal threatened him with jail time and school discipline for protesting immigration-reform bill HR 4437.

Police withheld the name of Soltero's stepfather, since he has not been arrested or charged. Ontario police Lt. John Evans said the man kept the rifle in the family's garage. The weapon was not in a gun safe and had no locking device, Evans said.

"The parent left out a weapon, which is open access and is against the law," Evans said.

Police said they plan to submit their case against Soltero's stepfather to the San Bernardino County District Attorney's Office for review. Ontario Police Cpl. Jeff Higbee said prosecutors will consider filing a charge of criminal storage of a firearm, resulting in death. The charge is a felony.

School district officials had no comment Monday about the allegations made by the boy's family, but said classmates and staff were traumatized by his death.

"Anthony is on everyone's mind today," said Leticia Zaragoza, who officially started as the school's new principal Monday. "Basically, it's been an impact for our students and staff. It hit them hard."

Funeral services for the boy were held Monday in Long Beach.

Soltero and several other students walked out of DeAnza Middle School on March 28 to protest the immigration bill, which includes harsh penalties for illegal immigrants.

On March 30, the boy was called into a school administrator's office, where he was told he could go to jail for three years for his involvement in the protests, said Samuel R. Paz, the family's attorney. The administrator also said the boy could be barred from graduation activities and his mother could be fined, Paz said.

Soltero reportedly called his mother, Louise Corales, and told her what the administrator said. By the time she got home from work, he had shot himself with what police said was a small-caliber rifle. Corales called police just after 3 p.m.

Paramedics took him to Arrowhead Regional Medical Center in Colton, where he was pronounced dead April 1.

District officials said they're obligated to talk to children about the consequences of truancy because students could face harm while wandering around off campus.

"We're responsible for the children during the day, and we want them to be safe," said Ontario-Montclair School District Deputy Superintendent James Kidwell. "If they're walking the streets in large groups, very often they get to goofing around and acting inappropriately, and they could be injured."

Kidwell said in one instance a student participating in the protests came within a foot of being struck by a car.

Police have issued truancy citations to some students already, Kidwell said. Other students also have been warned they could face citations if they walk off campus. He would not confirm what school officials said to Soltero. "Pending some threatened litigation against the district, I can't comment on it," he said.

Zaragoza said school officials contacted students closest to the boy over spring break last week to offer them counseling at the school. They also sent notes home to parents to notify them of the incident. Administrators brought in several district and volunteer counselors to talk to students last week. Counselors probably will remain at the school the rest of the week, Zaragoza said.

Paz said he planned to discuss the incident with district officials and has also talked to several students who were in the same meeting with Soltero and the school administrator.

He said police are in possession of a suicide note written by Soltero. The contents of the note, which could potentially shed light on the boy's motivation for killing himself, were not disclosed.


Link Posted: 4/11/2006 11:01:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DrFrige:


AM I MISSING SOMETHING HERE????????



Nope. Not at all.

Link Posted: 4/11/2006 11:04:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 11:05:22 PM EDT by BigBang]
You know it's Cali. law for trigger locks or a safe, I know it is, and I'll assume the father did also.

Eta: now if we could just figure out how to make this catch on with the rest of the illegal supporters
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 11:08:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BigBang:
You know it's Cali. law for trigger locks or a safe, I know it is, and I'll assume the father did also.



But where I am shaking my head and wondering... WTF is where I say "HELLO??? DOES ANYONE SEE THE BIG FUCKING ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM and no one is talking about it"

There is SO MUCH MORE going on than a bullshit trigger lock law that is going on. Kid was SET on killing himself... So if the kid used a steak knife this wouldnt be an issue?

Family is devastated that a child is dead and HEY!! HERE IS A GREAT IDEA... ARREST THE DAD AS HE IS MOURNING!!! FUCKING NICE!!!!

I SWEAR WTF are the lawmakers thinking?? REALLY!!!!!


ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!!!
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 11:29:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DrFrige:

Originally Posted By BigBang:
You know it's Cali. law for trigger locks or a safe, I know it is, and I'll assume the father did also.



But where I am shaking my head and wondering... WTF is where I say "HELLO??? DOES ANYONE SEE THE BIG FUCKING ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM and no one is talking about it"

There is SO MUCH MORE going on than a bullshit trigger lock law that is going on. Kid was SET on killing himself... So if the kid used a steak knife this wouldnt be an issue?

Family is devastated that a child is dead and HEY!! HERE IS A GREAT IDEA... ARREST THE DAD AS HE IS MOURNING!!! FUCKING NICE!!!!

I SWEAR WTF are the lawmakers thinking?? REALLY!!!!!


ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!!!



How do you know the kid was "set on killing himself"? How many kids act impulsively w/o thinking through the consequences of their actions?

Even if he is "set on killing himself", if his parents knew that, wouldn't them leaving an unsecure weapon around be WORSE than if he was "stable"?

Even if he is "set on killing himself", why make it easy for him to succeed?
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 11:49:38 PM EDT
Thank You Charles Darwin !

Invisiblesoul
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 11:57:22 PM EDT
Jesus, that kid had balls. To kill himself in protest... shit.

BTW, where the fuck did this happen? Why does the article keep mentioning San Bernardino and Ontario - did it happen in Kali or in Canada?
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 12:01:26 AM EDT
Kinda hard not to know with those gigantic signs they have to post in the shops down there...
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 12:13:30 AM EDT
Maybe if he were a Budist Monk , and lit himself on fire , would the commies in Cal. charge him with smoking in public ?
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 12:29:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Sturmwehr:
BTW, where the fuck did this happen? Why does the article keep mentioning San Bernardino and Ontario - did it happen in Kali or in Canada?



Ontario, San Bernadino County, California

yup - criminal storage of a firearm....

Brian
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 12:34:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Originally Posted By DrFrige:

Originally Posted By BigBang:
You know it's Cali. law for trigger locks or a safe, I know it is, and I'll assume the father did also.



But where I am shaking my head and wondering... WTF is where I say "HELLO??? DOES ANYONE SEE THE BIG FUCKING ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM and no one is talking about it"

There is SO MUCH MORE going on than a bullshit trigger lock law that is going on. Kid was SET on killing himself... So if the kid used a steak knife this wouldnt be an issue?

Family is devastated that a child is dead and HEY!! HERE IS A GREAT IDEA... ARREST THE DAD AS HE IS MOURNING!!! FUCKING NICE!!!!

I SWEAR WTF are the lawmakers thinking?? REALLY!!!!!


ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!!!



How do you know the kid was "set on killing himself"? How many kids act impulsively w/o thinking through the consequences of their actions?

Even if he is "set on killing himself", if his parents knew that, wouldn't them leaving an unsecure weapon around be WORSE than if he was "stable"?

Even if he is "set on killing himself", why make it easy for him to succeed?



If all guns were gone tommorow morning,what would we ban next?
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 2:54:22 AM EDT
I thought everyone knew about these safe storage laws. Here's Wisconsin's:

Leaving a firearm within reach of a child under 14 is generally a misdemeanor, if that child points it at anyone or shows it to anyone in a public place. Defenses include having the gun locked in a safe or container, or having a trigger lock on the gun, or removal of a key operating part, or illegal entry by anyone to obtain the firearm, or a reasonable belief a juvenile couldn't access the firearm. Statute 948.55

Firearms retailers are required to provide every buyer with a written warning stating, "If you leave a loaded firearm within the reach or easy access of a child you may be fined or imprisoned or both if the child improperly discharges, possesses or exhibits the firearm." Statute 175.37
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 2:59:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DrFrige:
There is SO MUCH MORE going on than a bullshit trigger lock law that is going on. Kid was SET on killing himself... So if the kid used a steak knife this wouldnt be an issue?



It takes alot more balls for a kid to stab him/herself with a knife than to shoot themselves with a gun.
Why should we be making it easier than it has to be?
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 3:17:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/12/2006 3:19:42 AM EDT by ProGunFemme]
I'm kinda torn on this one..

Would they have done the same if he had used his parents' car in the garage to die by carbon monoxide poisoning? In both situations the parents could be seen as accountable. Then again, it wasn't accidental. If it was a negligent discharge and he killed himself, that would be different. For someone who is entirely suicidal there is no turning back. That wouldn't have changed if the gun hadn't been around.

I lean more toward the opinion that he shouldn't be held accountable. I feel bad for his loss, and even worse for him that he's under public scrutiny for this.. I do NOT feel sorry for that kid, though. Anyone who kills themselves over something so trivial and dying with the delusion of martyrdom probably isn't going to be a very valuable asset to society anyway.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 3:31:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheInvisibleSoul:
Thank You Charles Darwin !

Invisiblesoul



Ditto
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 3:39:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By buzgun:
Maybe if he were a Budist Monk , and lit himself on fire , would the commies in Cal. charge him with smoking in public ?



Well of course if he’s on fire and there is smoke and that illegally. The people of California need to ban all harmful things to protect the children! You know guns, knives, bows, arrows, small stones, and blunt objects, all these things need to be controlled and highly regulated for the children. Don’t you know that the nice politicians know what is good for you! Now shut up and vote and they’ll give you bread and circuses.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 4:10:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DrFrige:

"The parent left out a weapon, which is open access and is against the law," (Ontario police Lt. John) Evans said.




That pretty much sums it up. The step father broke the law. It is a stupid retarded law, but a law none-the-less.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 4:14:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DrFrige:

Originally Posted By BigBang:
You know it's Cali. law for trigger locks or a safe, I know it is, and I'll assume the father did also.



But where I am shaking my head and wondering... WTF is where I say "HELLO??? DOES ANYONE SEE THE BIG FUCKING ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM and no one is talking about it"

There is SO MUCH MORE going on than a bullshit trigger lock law that is going on. Kid was SET on killing himself... So if the kid used a steak knife this wouldnt be an issue?

Family is devastated that a child is dead and HEY!! HERE IS A GREAT IDEA... ARREST THE DAD AS HE IS MOURNING!!! FUCKING NICE!!!!

I SWEAR WTF are the lawmakers thinking?? REALLY!!!!!


ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!!!



"Hmm, how can I use this to get myself re-elected? . . . "


How's that for a summary?


CMOS
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 4:18:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DrFrige:
[Family is devastated that a child is dead and HEY!! HERE IS A GREAT IDEA... ARREST THE DAD AS HE IS MOURNING!!! FUCKING NICE!!!!

I SWEAR WTF are the lawmakers thinking?? REALLY!!!!!



My guess would be that this is EXACTLY the kind of scenario they were thinking of when they PASSED that law in the first place, so it doesn't surprise me that they'd be arresting a family member now of all times.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 4:32:54 AM EDT
Ban children, do it for the firearms.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 4:33:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
My guess would be that this is EXACTLY the kind of scenario they were thinking of when they PASSED that law in the first place, so it doesn't surprise me that they'd be arresting a family member now of all times.



This and Columbine and all of the other "accidental" shootings which occur annually.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 4:43:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

My guess would be that this is EXACTLY the kind of scenario they were thinking of when they PASSED that law in the first place, so it doesn't surprise me that they'd be arresting a family member now of all times.



+1

My solution is to never, under any circumstances, go to California.



And occasionally hope there is an earthquake, California breaks off, and sinks into the ocean....
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 4:48:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Originally Posted By DrFrige:

Originally Posted By BigBang:
You know it's Cali. law for trigger locks or a safe, I know it is, and I'll assume the father did also.



But where I am shaking my head and wondering... WTF is where I say "HELLO??? DOES ANYONE SEE THE BIG FUCKING ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM and no one is talking about it"

There is SO MUCH MORE going on than a bullshit trigger lock law that is going on. Kid was SET on killing himself... So if the kid used a steak knife this wouldnt be an issue?

Family is devastated that a child is dead and HEY!! HERE IS A GREAT IDEA... ARREST THE DAD AS HE IS MOURNING!!! FUCKING NICE!!!!

I SWEAR WTF are the lawmakers thinking?? REALLY!!!!!


ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!!!



How do you know the kid was "set on killing himself"? How many kids act impulsively w/o thinking through the consequences of their actions?

Even if he is "set on killing himself", if his parents knew that, wouldn't them leaving an unsecure weapon around be WORSE than if he was "stable"?

Even if he is "set on killing himself", why make it easy for him to succeed?



If all guns were gone tommorow morning,what would we ban next?




Can they just ban stupid people........

For the children.....


Nevermind..
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 4:56:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/12/2006 5:03:13 AM EDT by TacticalPenguin]
Deelted because it sounded an awfully lot like an incident that happeend Back East up here, In Ontario, I missed the county name
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 5:01:43 AM EDT
"On March 30, the boy was called into a school administrator's office, where he was told he could go to jail for three years for his involvement in the protests, said Samuel R. Paz, the family's attorney. The administrator also said the boy could be barred from graduation activities and his mother could be fined, Paz said."



Prison for three years?? lies!! The priciple scrared the carp out of the kid, his fault.

Link Posted: 4/12/2006 5:03:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Originally Posted By DrFrige:

Originally Posted By BigBang:
You know it's Cali. law for trigger locks or a safe, I know it is, and I'll assume the father did also.



But where I am shaking my head and wondering... WTF is where I say "HELLO??? DOES ANYONE SEE THE BIG FUCKING ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM and no one is talking about it"

There is SO MUCH MORE going on than a bullshit trigger lock law that is going on. Kid was SET on killing himself... So if the kid used a steak knife this wouldnt be an issue?

Family is devastated that a child is dead and HEY!! HERE IS A GREAT IDEA... ARREST THE DAD AS HE IS MOURNING!!! FUCKING NICE!!!!

I SWEAR WTF are the lawmakers thinking?? REALLY!!!!!


ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!!!



How do you know the kid was "set on killing himself"? How many kids act impulsively w/o thinking through the consequences of their actions?

Even if he is "set on killing himself", if his parents knew that, wouldn't them leaving an unsecure weapon around be WORSE than if he was "stable"?

Even if he is "set on killing himself", why make it easy for him to succeed?



If I am reading this right, I take it then you believe only LEO and the military should have guns huh?

Cause you sure as hell sound like Sarah Brady....
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 5:23:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/12/2006 5:24:11 AM EDT by Will-Rogers]
My son killed himself nearly 9 years ago. His suicide note said that he was doing it to bring attention to the poor treatment of some students at school.

The fact is my son was a disturbed young man who killed himself because he didn't know how to deal with his poor choices. I deserve the blame for that.

Screwed up young people do screwed up things. And it isn't about the method they use to kill themselves. My son hung himself with a cheap extension cord. If he hadn't had that cord, he would have found something else.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 5:45:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Originally Posted By DrFrige:

Originally Posted By BigBang:
You know it's Cali. law for trigger locks or a safe, I know it is, and I'll assume the father did also.



But where I am shaking my head and wondering... WTF is where I say "HELLO??? DOES ANYONE SEE THE BIG FUCKING ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM and no one is talking about it"

There is SO MUCH MORE going on than a bullshit trigger lock law that is going on. Kid was SET on killing himself... So if the kid used a steak knife this wouldnt be an issue?

Family is devastated that a child is dead and HEY!! HERE IS A GREAT IDEA... ARREST THE DAD AS HE IS MOURNING!!! FUCKING NICE!!!!

I SWEAR WTF are the lawmakers thinking?? REALLY!!!!!


ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!!!



How do you know the kid was "set on killing himself"? How many kids act impulsively w/o thinking through the consequences of their actions?

Even if he is "set on killing himself", if his parents knew that, wouldn't them leaving an unsecure weapon around be WORSE than if he was "stable"?

Even if he is "set on killing himself", why make it easy for him to succeed?



Yep. Locks on the knife drawer? Did you put the asprine in the safe? Chain up the rope in the house? Gasoline for the mower locked down? Any razors in the house? 5th of Jack in the cabnet? Carpet knife locked securely in a tamper-proof location?

Or is the real issue just that he had a gun?
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 6:49:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Grunteled:


Yep. Locks on the knife drawer? Did you put the asprine in the safe? Chain up the rope in the house? Gasoline for the mower locked down? Any razors in the house? 5th of Jack in the cabnet? Carpet knife locked securely in a tamper-proof location?

Or is the real issue just that he had a gun?



+1. Putting the dad in jail does nothing to make anyone any safer.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 6:51:31 AM EDT
The article says Ontario.

It's Canada.

Rational thought stops at the border.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 6:57:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Will-Rogers:
My son killed himself nearly 9 years ago. His suicide note said that he was doing it to bring attention to the poor treatment of some students at school.

The fact is my son was a disturbed young man who killed himself because he didn't know how to deal with his poor choices. I deserve the blame for that.

Screwed up young people do screwed up things. And it isn't about the method they use to kill themselves. My son hung himself with a cheap extension cord. If he hadn't had that cord, he would have found something else.



I'm Sorry
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 6:58:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BenDover:
The article says Ontario.

It's Canada.

Rational thought stops at the border.



It might be Ontario, CA....
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 6:58:33 AM EDT
And how many illegals are going to show up at this kid's funeral? I'm pretty sure it will be none.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 6:59:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pzjgr:

Originally Posted By BenDover:
The article says Ontario.

It's Canada.

Rational thought stops at the border.



It might be Ontario, CA....



Yeah, I guess the San Bernadino County was a dead giveaway.

Sounded good though.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 7:00:13 AM EDT
Is this the vaunted "compassion" of the left? To put grieving parents in jail? If they tried this crap on me, well, lets just say that they'd need SWAT to enforce that one.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 7:01:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BigBang:

Originally Posted By Will-Rogers:
My son killed himself nearly 9 years ago. His suicide note said that he was doing it to bring attention to the poor treatment of some students at school.

The fact is my son was a disturbed young man who killed himself because he didn't know how to deal with his poor choices. I deserve the blame for that.

Screwed up young people do screwed up things. And it isn't about the method they use to kill themselves. My son hung himself with a cheap extension cord. If he hadn't had that cord, he would have found something else.



I'm Sorry



Me too.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 7:02:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DrFrige:

Originally Posted By BigBang:
You know it's Cali. law for trigger locks or a safe, I know it is, and I'll assume the father did also.



But where I am shaking my head and wondering... WTF is where I say "HELLO??? DOES ANYONE SEE THE BIG FUCKING ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM and no one is talking about it"

There is SO MUCH MORE going on than a bullshit trigger lock law that is going on. Kid was SET on killing himself... So if the kid used a steak knife this wouldnt be an issue?

Family is devastated that a child is dead and HEY!! HERE IS A GREAT IDEA... ARREST THE DAD AS HE IS MOURNING!!! FUCKING NICE!!!!

I SWEAR WTF are the lawmakers thinking?? REALLY!!!!!


ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!!!



it's easier to scream "we need gun control" then it is to address the *real* problem. if we address the real problem, we will have to face things like "racism", "diversity", pollitical correctness", and all sorts of social programs and policies, as well as some fundimental truths that may not be all that palletable.

plus, consider that the people who scream gun control are usually the ones who are responsible for all the aforementioned topics.


Link Posted: 4/12/2006 8:02:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bullyforyou:

Originally Posted By DrFrige:

Originally Posted By BigBang:
You know it's Cali. law for trigger locks or a safe, I know it is, and I'll assume the father did also.



But where I am shaking my head and wondering... WTF is where I say "HELLO??? DOES ANYONE SEE THE BIG FUCKING ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM and no one is talking about it"

There is SO MUCH MORE going on than a bullshit trigger lock law that is going on. Kid was SET on killing himself... So if the kid used a steak knife this wouldnt be an issue?

Family is devastated that a child is dead and HEY!! HERE IS A GREAT IDEA... ARREST THE DAD AS HE IS MOURNING!!! FUCKING NICE!!!!

I SWEAR WTF are the lawmakers thinking?? REALLY!!!!!


ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!!!



it's easier to scream "we need gun control" then it is to address the *real* problem. if we address the real problem, we will have to face things like "racism", "diversity", pollitical correctness", and all sorts of social programs and policies, as well as some fundimental truths that may not be all that palletable.

plus, consider that the people who scream gun control are usually the ones who are responsible for all the aforementioned topics.





THANK YOU!!!


You have put my thoughts eloquently into words that my emotions were not allowing me to. THAT is what I was trying to say!!!!
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 8:09:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Will-Rogers:
My son killed himself nearly 9 years ago. His suicide note said that he was doing it to bring attention to the poor treatment of some students at school.

The fact is my son was a disturbed young man who killed himself because he didn't know how to deal with his poor choices. I deserve the blame for that.

Screwed up young people do screwed up things. And it isn't about the method they use to kill themselves. My son hung himself with a cheap extension cord. If he hadn't had that cord, he would have found something else.



First of all my condolences and my heartfelt prayers to you.

Back in the late 80's one of my dearest friends killed himself and we KNEW that he was contemplating it. We went to his home and removed every 'dangerous object' we could find. He watched us and laughed. We were teenagers so we didnt have the brain capacity to call 911... He had it planned for weeks what he was going to do.

Will Rogers is 100% correct... let me reitterate it once more because it is WELL worth repeating:


Screwed up young people do screwed up things. And it isn't about the method they use to kill themselves. My son hung himself with a cheap extension cord. If he hadn't had that cord, he would have found something else.


Now as far as this kid in the article goes, EASE of suicide is not usually a mitigating factor. They dont care how they get to their destination as long as they get there. We had a guy a few months ago jump off an overpass into 80 mph traffic and got his job done.

Punishing the family is NOT the answer. BELIEVE me... the family has been punished FAR MORE than the law can.

Link Posted: 4/12/2006 8:22:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BigBang:
You know it's Cali. law for trigger locks or a safe...





Cali law does not specify the manner in which you have to store your weapons. But if a kid under 16 gets his or her hands on one and someone is injured or killed as a result, the state can charge you with negligent storage.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 8:30:57 AM EDT
I can't see how you guys are opposed to a law that clearly requires someone to be a responsible adult.

While there is little doubt in my mind that if he didn't have access to a gun, he woudl have still killed himself, the fact remains that the parents were negligent and allowed a minor access to a firearm and ammunition.

If it was YOUR kid visiting someone else's house you'd sue the parents and hold them responsible financially for this scenario. Why not make it criminal as well?

If you have children in your home, it is your responsibility to secure your firearms. If you don't do so, i'd call that criminal negligence. The parents SHOULD go to jail.

The only way we will ever be able to continue to own firearms in this country is if we are responsible. If you do not hold these parents responsible for their actions, how can you expect the gun grabbers NOT to punish us by taking our guns away completely?

Yes, we expect freedom in a free society, but we also expect that our citizens will use that freedom responsibly...and these people did not.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 8:36:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By efpeter:

Originally Posted By DrFrige:

"The parent left out a weapon, which is open access and is against the law," (Ontario police Lt. John) Evans said.




That pretty much sums it up. The step father broke the law. It is a stupid retarded law, but a law none-the-less.




Haven't you heard? Laws don't mean anything anymore when gov'ts don't obey or enforce them.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 8:36:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tim84K10:
I can't see how you guys are opposed to a law that clearly requires someone to be a responsible adult.

While there is little doubt in my mind that if he didn't have access to a gun, he woudl have still killed himself, the fact remains that the parents were negligent and allowed a minor access to a firearm and ammunition.

If it was YOUR kid visiting someone else's house you'd sue the parents and hold them responsible financially for this scenario. Why not make it criminal as well?

If you have children in your home, it is your responsibility to secure your firearms. If you don't do so, i'd call that criminal negligence. The parents SHOULD go to jail.

The only way we will ever be able to continue to own firearms in this country is if we are responsible. If you do not hold these parents responsible for their actions, how can you expect the gun grabbers NOT to punish us by taking our guns away completely?

Yes, we expect freedom in a free society, but we also expect that our citizens will use that freedom responsibly...and these people did not.



Thats bullshit. There are many weapons which you can use to kill. Hammer, knives, baseball bats, 2x4's, power saw. Maybe we should have to lock all those things up too....

When I was a kid, my dad kept his rifles and shotguns in cases in the back of his closet. They weren't locked. But I was taught respect for them, and would have never dreamed of touching them.

And others are right IF the gun was locked up, if he was serious he would find another way...

Sorry, you sound like a namby pamby Sarah Brady parrot.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 8:46:04 AM EDT
Am I the only one who would be asking the school official, "Who the fuck do you think you are, threatening my kid with three years of jail time?" A freaking felony for leaving school? This guy has more than his share of culpability in this death.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 8:56:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pzjgr:

Thats bullshit. There are many weapons which you can use to kill. Hammer, knives, baseball bats, 2x4's, power saw. Maybe we should have to lock all those things up too....

When I was a kid, my dad kept his rifles and shotguns in cases in the back of his closet. They weren't locked. But I was taught respect for them, and would have never dreamed of touching them.

And others are right IF the gun was locked up, if he was serious he would find another way...

Sorry, you sound like a namby pamby Sarah Brady parrot.



How many hammer, 2X4, baseball bat, or pwer saw suicides have you heard of?

All of those require a person that is DEDICATED to inflincting pain on themsleves and continuing to do it until dead.

As opposed to 1 pull of the trigger.

Somehow I SERIOUSLY doubt if that kid didn't have a gun at that moment he would have pummelled himself to death with a 2X4.

Hanging is probably as common or more common than firearms in suicides.

Can you prevent suicides by locking up guns. NO of course not. But as gun owners you can prevent bad press about guns being involved in suicides by locking up guns.

Still, if someone, especially an impulsive child decides to commit suicide, WHY MAKE IT EASY BY ALLOWING THEM TO ACCESS A FIREARM.

It's also interesting as an emergency responder how many calls we get, from suicidal people, after they have taken an OD, cut themself, etc. asking for help. We don't get many calls from people after they have shot themselves.

Do I agree with CA's draconian safe storage laws? NO. They way I understand it a gun has to be locked up, unloaded, seperate from ammo, which also has to be locked up. Seems really overboard.

But I also don't think gun owners are doing any good by not locking up their guns, or minimizing what happens when guns get misused.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 8:58:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/12/2006 9:00:34 AM EDT by ShadowCompany]
The gun charge is

As for the suicide, I would think the kid was on the verge of doing something along those lines anyway. Protesting was just a good excuse.

ETA: Mexico + Canada (socialism) = California
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 9:08:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

...Do I agree with CA's draconian safe storage laws? NO. They way I understand it a gun has to be locked up, unloaded, seperate from ammo, which also has to be locked up....





The law says no such thing.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 9:10:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pzjgr:
And others are right IF the gun was locked up, if he was serious he would find another way...

Sorry, you sound like a namby pamby Sarah Brady parrot.


The way a suicidal person works, they pick a method. It could be a gun, pills, jumping off a bridge, what have you. They don't have a laundry list of methods planned. The reason the Bradys talk about guns being locked up, they figure that if you've locked up that gun, you've interupted the suicidal persons planning cycle and they wont immediately kill themselves when the impulse strikes and in the meantime you can get them mental help. Eventually, yes, they can find another way if they don't get treatment. After all, Japans suicide rate is higher than the USA's, and they have a limited access to firearms. Thats because they choose another "primary" method of killing themselves because guns aren't a consideration in their planning process.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 9:10:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AZ_newguy:
Am I the only one who would be asking the school official, "Who the fuck do you think you are, threatening my kid with three years of jail time?" A freaking felony for leaving school? This guy has more than his share of culpability in this death.



Nope, you're not the only one.

The article was all about the gun storage, and so was this thread.

Everyone (except you and me) has ignored the part about the school official threatening a middle school student...WTF.

Chances are the local PD and news there will focus on the GUN and nothing will be done about a school threatening a student like that.

Yes maybe the kid was set on killing himself, but the schools' threats may have pushed him over the edge. But no, teachers/principles/super intendants never do anything wrong or out of line...

Link Posted: 4/12/2006 9:11:14 AM EDT
Back in HS, if we were to protest and got cited for truancy or got detention or faced jail time (as minors), we'd give them the big middle finger a "F$%@ you!" and tell our parents to do the same. What is the administration going to do when a group of parents and students stand together?
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 9:25:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Originally Posted By DrFrige:

Originally Posted By BigBang:
You know it's Cali. law for trigger locks or a safe, I know it is, and I'll assume the father did also.



But where I am shaking my head and wondering... WTF is where I say "HELLO??? DOES ANYONE SEE THE BIG FUCKING ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM and no one is talking about it"

There is SO MUCH MORE going on than a bullshit trigger lock law that is going on. Kid was SET on killing himself... So if the kid used a steak knife this wouldnt be an issue?

Family is devastated that a child is dead and HEY!! HERE IS A GREAT IDEA... ARREST THE DAD AS HE IS MOURNING!!! FUCKING NICE!!!!

I SWEAR WTF are the lawmakers thinking?? REALLY!!!!!


ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!!!



How do you know the kid was "set on killing himself"? How many kids act impulsively w/o thinking through the consequences of their actions?

Even if he is "set on killing himself", if his parents knew that, wouldn't them leaving an unsecure weapon around be WORSE than if he was "stable"?

Even if he is "set on killing himself", why make it easy for him to succeed?



If all guns were gone tommorow morning,what would we ban next?



Japan has more suicides then the US and has total gun control. the MYTH that restricting access to guns stops suicides is flat out lie.
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