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Posted: 4/7/2006 1:09:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 1:11:36 PM EDT by quijanos]
I spend a few minutes of my spare time here almost daily. Not ever day but most. I enjoy the boards for the good things it has to offer. There are alot of experienced folk here and more information to take in than I can remember. Most of the people I refer to tend to be older members or if not then tend to be just a little older (read: not 18 y.o.).

But I'm afraid there is something we are missing here amidst all the macho bravado and negative bitching, whining and etc. I'm with the opinion that if there is nothing nice to say, then don't say anything. With that said I'll go ahead and unload a few things that need saying.
We live in a time where reality is blurred by imagination and people need to come back down to earth.



*People can say all they want about the POTUS but I will always consider him President Bush.
Anything short of that is disrespect for him, the country and everything we stand for. What happened to being an American. More people here rag on him because they think their ideas are better and would work better. He didn't happen into the position and he deserves alot more credit that most give him. All the comments like "Bush this" or "Bush that" get under my skin. Although I don't agree with ALL of his policy....he is still our President and the most powerful man on earth. Show some respect people. The mil folks here will understand what I am saying and at this point I don't care if anyone else does.

*Being free is not so much "free" anymore. We can't smoke in public (I'm a non-smoker).
Speaking your mind can land you in "disturbing the peace"

*We can't say SIHPAPP. Our words are analyzed and censored no matter how true or tasteless.

*People cannot correct their own kids without fear of charges and then on the backside get charged anyway when the twirp screws up and costs them.

*Fat-free has been skewed outta proportion: there are people (last couple generations) who ate eggs/bacon their entire lives and lived to be 100. Manufacturers basically lie about their products contents thru percentages and labeling like "95% fat free".

*The oil companies (who I believe are in bed with car manufacturers) spin all kinda bullshit from, war, weather, hurricanes, futures and embargo's....all of which have little impact on the friggen price they are fucking us for. Yet we still get hammered.

*Politicians are not held to the standard or accountable in which they should be. They can basically kill people and get away with it. Why do I use this example. Because its true and everything else pales in comparison.

*Large Corporations likewise can get away with lying, stealing and murder, since they can Lawyer their way out of it.

*The issue with Mexico and "illegals" is blown way outta proportion. We have been existing with Mexico (very successfully mind you) for more than 200 years. I live in the South and area heavily influenced by hispanics. Day laborers or for that matter laborers have been coming here for work ever since. It wasn't until early 1900 when the border and 'illegal' crossings became an issue. Migrant workers from Mexico were coming here to work all the time and returning home. Amidst an epidemic of disease (again in the early 1900's), the US started requiring workers to be sprayed w/ DDT (?) or something in order to enter the country. Mexicans found this to be humiliating and started avoiding border crossing checkpoints and here we are today. There is no solution to the problem 200 years old. I know all the Mexican haters here would just assume kill all of them and then deport them back home in Port O Lets, but what makes you think that would fix the issues we have? Why don't people have the same issue with Canada? They put up with and welcome Extremist Islamic Fundamental Groups and are alot bigger sheep than Mexicans. And our border with them is just as 'open' as with Mexico. Canadia could give a Fuck about the US. On the otherhand, the Mexicans depend on us for work. Why would they let that get fucked up by accomodating terrorist groups?

*The 'terrorists' or otherwise "Non -Americans" (anti-Americans) know that they can exploit us because we continue to hold out a hand for and continue giving help. Even to the ones that just fucked us over.
They have effectively taken over the Airlines (industry) and the complete opposite has happened where logic should have prevailed.
Example: Osama himself and his entire extended Arabic family in Full Ninja attire / faces hidden can walk thru Metal detectors with sirens blazing and they are left alone for fear of "offending them" while 95 year grey haired old ladies get stripped searched prior to boarding a plane for Hawaii.


Forgive me for my rant but this crap bothers me no more as I have essentially shit on you here. Thanks for your time and hope you enjoy.

eta

feel free to add any bitching you might have to the post

Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:12:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By quijanos:
*The oil companies (who I believe are in bed with car manufacturers) spin all kinda bullshit from, war, weather, hurricanes, futures and embargo's....all of which have little impact on the friggen price they are fucking us for. Yet we still get hammered.



oh, please. not this shit again.

repeat after me:

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:14:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:

Originally Posted By quijanos:
*The oil companies (who I believe are in bed with car manufacturers) spin all kinda bullshit from, war, weather, hurricanes, futures and embargo's....all of which have little impact on the friggen price they are fucking us for. Yet we still get hammered.



oh, please. not this shit again.

repeat after me:

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.



Hate to threadshit...but....come on...you really expect me to believe that demand went up so fast that gas went from $2.30 something to $4.00 in a single day after Katrina....please....
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:15:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:

Originally Posted By quijanos:
*The oil companies (who I believe are in bed with car manufacturers) spin all kinda bullshit from, war, weather, hurricanes, futures and embargo's....all of which have little impact on the friggen price they are fucking us for. Yet we still get hammered.



oh, please. not this shit again.

repeat after me:

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.



So I take in more gasoline during the summer than winter?
You know this?

Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:15:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pzjgr:

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:

Originally Posted By quijanos:
*The oil companies (who I believe are in bed with car manufacturers) spin all kinda bullshit from, war, weather, hurricanes, futures and embargo's....all of which have little impact on the friggen price they are fucking us for. Yet we still get hammered.



oh, please. not this shit again.

repeat after me:

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.



Hate to threadshit...but....come on...you really expect me to believe that demand went up so fast that gas went from $2.30 something to $4.00 in a single day after Katrina....please....




NO Fucking Shit
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:17:18 PM EDT
You're a little too suspicious of big buisiness, starting to sound like a paranoid liberal idiot. Trust me, having a father who owns an oil company, those companies hate each other so much and are so busy trying to get every extra cent outa deals against each other, theres no way they cooperate on anything. Don't believe any of that BS.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:17:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pzjgr:
Hate to threadshit...but....come on...you really expect me to believe that demand went up so fast that gas went from $2.30 something to $4.00 in a single day after Katrina....please....



Yes. Were gas stations having a hard time selling it at $4.00 a gallon?
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:19:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 1:20:28 PM EDT by fossil_fuel]

Originally Posted By pzjgr:

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:

Originally Posted By quijanos:
*The oil companies (who I believe are in bed with car manufacturers) spin all kinda bullshit from, war, weather, hurricanes, futures and embargo's....all of which have little impact on the friggen price they are fucking us for. Yet we still get hammered.



oh, please. not this shit again.

repeat after me:

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.



Hate to threadshit...but....come on...you really expect me to believe that demand went up so fast that gas went from $2.30 something to $4.00 in a single day after Katrina....please....



demand didn't go up much (maybe a little bit in the hurricane effected areas due to hoarding), but considering that half of our nation's gasoline refining capacity and a third of our oil producing capacity was knocked out by the hurricane, the price increases make perfect sense. when supply goes down and demand stays the same, prices go up. simple economics. no conspiracy there.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:20:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SubnetMask:

Originally Posted By pzjgr:
Hate to threadshit...but....come on...you really expect me to believe that demand went up so fast that gas went from $2.30 something to $4.00 in a single day after Katrina....please....



Yes. Were gas stations having a hard time selling it at $4.00 a gallon?



People weren't lining up....

Sorry, I call bullshit. Ok, maybe if WNY was directly affected, and people were all trying to get gas at the same time, and there were lines at service stations here...I'd say demand was high.

But it was business as usual here. And gas still went from 2.30 to over 4.00. I watched it change from 3.00 to over 4.00 in less than 4 hours....there was no "demand" to justify that other than gouging or price fixing....
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:24:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 1:27:07 PM EDT by quijanos]

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:

Originally Posted By pzjgr:

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:

Originally Posted By quijanos:
*The oil companies (who I believe are in bed with car manufacturers) spin all kinda bullshit from, war, weather, hurricanes, futures and embargo's....all of which have little impact on the friggen price they are fucking us for. Yet we still get hammered.



oh, please. not this shit again.

repeat after me:

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.



Hate to threadshit...but....come on...you really expect me to believe that demand went up so fast that gas went from $2.30 something to $4.00 in a single day after Katrina....please....



HELL YES. considering that half of our nation's gasoline refining capacity and a third of our oil producing capacity was knocked out by the hurricane. when supply goes down and demand stays the same, prices go up. simple economics.




Bullshit.

The gasoline (oil) YOU and I purchase today was was purchased a couple maybe, sometimes 3 years ago (for refining). However, we are paying TODAYS PRICES. Its called FUTURES.
TOTAL FUCKING BULLSHIT. With a name like FossilFuel you should have heard of this.

Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:25:17 PM EDT
The government should ensure that gasoline never exceeds $1 per gallon. The government should also heavily tax the giant, evil, gluttonous oil companies and distribute the money to the poor and laid-off union workers.

As an American, cheap gasoline is my birthright!
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:27:30 PM EDT
What is an acceptable price for gasoline, and why? Explain who should set this price. Explain how it should be enforced, and the penalties for not complying.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:28:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By quijanos:

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:

Originally Posted By pzjgr:

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:

Originally Posted By quijanos:
*The oil companies (who I believe are in bed with car manufacturers) spin all kinda bullshit from, war, weather, hurricanes, futures and embargo's....all of which have little impact on the friggen price they are fucking us for. Yet we still get hammered.



oh, please. not this shit again.

repeat after me:

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.



Hate to threadshit...but....come on...you really expect me to believe that demand went up so fast that gas went from $2.30 something to $4.00 in a single day after Katrina....please....



HELL YES. considering that half of our nation's gasoline refining capacity and a third of our oil producing capacity was knocked out by the hurricane. when supply goes down and demand stays the same, prices go up. simple economics.




Bullshit.

The gasoline YOU and I purchase today was was purchased a couple maybe, sometimes 3 years ago. However, we are paying TODAYS PRICES. Its called FUTURES. TOTAL FUCKING BULLSHIT. With a name like FossilFuel you should have heard of this.



damn right i've heard of it, i TRADE futures.

it doesn't matter if the gasoline was produced today or three weeks ago. when it was produced or purchased doesn't mean shit, because it hasn't been CONSUMED yet. if the refineries are out of commission, that means that there's going to be less gasoline to go around since less is being produced. therefore, prices are going to go up because there's going to be less supply in the near future. it's called MARKET EFFICIENCY.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:28:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SWS:
The government should ensure that gasoline never exceeds $1 per gallon. The government should also heavily tax the giant, evil, gluttonous oil companies and distribute the money to the poor and laid-off union workers.

As an American, cheap gasoline is my birthright!



Another one that misses the point.....look, I'll pay what I have to until the point I get fed up and stop driving or find other means.

BUT don't tell me there isn't gouging and price fixing going on. I am not saying its a huge conspiracy, buit it exists.

Don't piss on my back and tell me its raining.

Anytime someone mentions they believe that there is gouging and price fixing, you get some yaahoo who comes out with the Gov price control and communism crap....
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:30:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:

Originally Posted By quijanos:

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:

Originally Posted By pzjgr:

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:

Originally Posted By quijanos:
*The oil companies (who I believe are in bed with car manufacturers) spin all kinda bullshit from, war, weather, hurricanes, futures and embargo's....all of which have little impact on the friggen price they are fucking us for. Yet we still get hammered.



oh, please. not this shit again.

repeat after me:

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.



Hate to threadshit...but....come on...you really expect me to believe that demand went up so fast that gas went from $2.30 something to $4.00 in a single day after Katrina....please....



HELL YES. considering that half of our nation's gasoline refining capacity and a third of our oil producing capacity was knocked out by the hurricane. when supply goes down and demand stays the same, prices go up. simple economics.




Bullshit.

The gasoline YOU and I purchase today was was purchased a couple maybe, sometimes 3 years ago. However, we are paying TODAYS PRICES. Its called FUTURES. TOTAL FUCKING BULLSHIT. With a name like FossilFuel you should have heard of this.



damn right i've heard of it, i TRADE futures.

it doesn't matter if the gasoline was produced today or three weeks ago. when it was produced or purchased doesn't mean shit, because it hasn't been CONSUMED yet. if the refineries are out of commission, that means that there's going to be less gasoline to go around since less is being produced. therefore, prices are going to go up because there's going to be less supply in the near future. it's called MARKET EFFICIENCY.



So what you are saying is the purchase price (oil companies) and what we (consumers) pay is different?
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:31:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By quijanos:

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:

Originally Posted By pzjgr:

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:

Originally Posted By quijanos:
*The oil companies (who I believe are in bed with car manufacturers) spin all kinda bullshit from, war, weather, hurricanes, futures and embargo's....all of which have little impact on the friggen price they are fucking us for. Yet we still get hammered.



oh, please. not this shit again.

repeat after me:

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.



Hate to threadshit...but....come on...you really expect me to believe that demand went up so fast that gas went from $2.30 something to $4.00 in a single day after Katrina....please....



HELL YES. considering that half of our nation's gasoline refining capacity and a third of our oil producing capacity was knocked out by the hurricane. when supply goes down and demand stays the same, prices go up. simple economics.




Bullshit.

The gasoline (oil) YOU and I purchase today was was purchased a couple maybe, sometimes 3 years ago (for refining). However, we are paying TODAYS PRICES. Its called FUTURES.
TOTAL FUCKING BULLSHIT. With a name like FossilFuel you should have heard of this.





so tell me. let's say that you bought 20 hicap mags in 1993 for $25 each, before the assault weapons ban was even on the horizon. in 1994 the ban is passed, and no new hicap mags are being made. In 1998, with the ban in full swing, hicap mags are going for $50. is it somehow "TOTAL FUCKING BULLSHIT" to sell your mags at $50 in 1998, since there were purchased several years ago and you only paid $25 for them?
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:32:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SubnetMask:
What is an acceptable price for gasoline, and why? Explain who should set this price. Explain how it should be enforced, and the penalties for not complying.



Market forces...I have no problem with capitalism. But gas prices do not have a mechanism that drives the price locally up over $1.00 in three hours...between the hours of 8:00am and 11:00am.

That is owners or distributors doing it because they can....again, if they can, I guess we have to live with it...but again, don't piss on my back and tell me its raining.

But we are however hijacking the crap out of Quijanos' thread....
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:32:35 PM EDT



So what you are saying is the purchase price (oil companies) and what we (consumers) pay is different?



i'm not sure i understand what you mean here. the oil companies are the ones who produce the oil.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:33:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:

Originally Posted By quijanos:

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:

Originally Posted By pzjgr:

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:

Originally Posted By quijanos:
*The oil companies (who I believe are in bed with car manufacturers) spin all kinda bullshit from, war, weather, hurricanes, futures and embargo's....all of which have little impact on the friggen price they are fucking us for. Yet we still get hammered.



oh, please. not this shit again.

repeat after me:

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.



Hate to threadshit...but....come on...you really expect me to believe that demand went up so fast that gas went from $2.30 something to $4.00 in a single day after Katrina....please....



HELL YES. considering that half of our nation's gasoline refining capacity and a third of our oil producing capacity was knocked out by the hurricane. when supply goes down and demand stays the same, prices go up. simple economics.




Bullshit.

The gasoline (oil) YOU and I purchase today was was purchased a couple maybe, sometimes 3 years ago (for refining). However, we are paying TODAYS PRICES. Its called FUTURES.
TOTAL FUCKING BULLSHIT. With a name like FossilFuel you should have heard of this.





so tell me. let's say that you bought 20 hicap mags in 1993 for $25 each, before the assault weapons ban was even on the horizon. in 1994 the ban is passed, and no new hicap mags are being made. In 1998, with the ban in full swing, hicap mags are going for $50. is it somehow "TOTAL FUCKING BULLSHIT" to sell your mags at $50 in 1998, since there were purchased several years ago and you only paid $25 for them?



apples and oranges.
They didn't stop producing gasoline. And wont'

Answer the question.............
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:33:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pzjgr:
Market forces...I have no problem with capitalism. But gas prices do not have a mechanism that drives the price locally up over $1.00 in three hours...between the hours of 8:00am and 11:00am.



yes they do. it's called a big-ass hurricane flooding out half the nation's refineries.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:33:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pzjgr:
Anytime someone mentions they believe that there is gouging and price fixing, you get some yaahoo who comes out with the Gov price control and communism crap....



I think the government should investigate you and the rates you charge for your services. You're probably price gouging.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:34:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:



So what you are saying is the purchase price (oil companies) and what we (consumers) pay is different?



i'm not sure i understand what you mean here. the oil companies are the ones who produce the oil.



I mean does Shell (for instance) sell for the same price they produced the oil (plus a profit) to US oil consumers?
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:35:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By quijanos:

apples and oranges.
They didn't stop producing gasoline. And wont'

Answer the question.............



they didn't stop, but they produced a hell of a lot less of it because the refineries were down for quite some time. in both situations, supply goes way down and therefore the price goes up.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:36:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 1:37:46 PM EDT by quijanos]

Originally Posted By pzjgr:
Originally Posted By SubnetMask:
What is an acceptable price for gasoline, and why? Explain who should set this price. Explain how it should be enforced, and the penalties for not complying
Market forces...I have no problem with capitalism. But gas prices do not have a mechanism that drives the price locally up over $1.00 in three hours...between the hours of 8:00am and 11:00am.

That is owners or distributors doing it because they can....again, if they can, I guess we have to live with it...but again, don't piss on my back and tell me its raining.

But we are however hijacking the crap out of Quijanos' thread....





Its why I put it here.............
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:37:09 PM EDT
THERE IS NO PRICE FIXING. There is supply and demand. If they want to sell gas at 4 dollars a gallon and you are stupid enough to pay that, then you are an idiot. Someone else will come by, and if it is still profitable enough, undercut them and sell it at 3 dollars. Then they make more money because no one buys from the 4 dollar priced company. Make sense?

The only way there could be any "corruption" would be if EVERYONE got together and conspired...and that has about a 1 in a million chance of happening, don't be an idiot please you are all more intelligent than that. You think Exxon is going to make a deal with BP for example and say "Hey, u sell for 5 dollars and I will too budy ol' pal!" and BP will say "OK friend!" and then NOT sell it for 4 dollars and cut out exxon's knees? Oil companies are capatalistic to the max, and as such will fight viciously for your money.

See how expensive the damage was from the hurricanes on offshore rigs as well...they are multi-multi million dollar facilities and they got ripped to peices and smashed to smitherines wholesale. Maybe you can see how that might make someone want a little more profits to cushion the blow?

My dad paid 3 million for a well that turned out to be a dry hole...that is 3 million dollars down the drain with absolutely 0 return. Oil companies have expenses too. Im sick of this "Oil companies are evil!" shit.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:37:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 1:38:22 PM EDT by fossil_fuel]

Originally Posted By quijanos:

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:



So what you are saying is the purchase price (oil companies) and what we (consumers) pay is different?



i'm not sure i understand what you mean here. the oil companies are the ones who produce the oil.



I mean does Shell (for instance) sell for the same price they produced the oil (plus a profit) to US oil consumers?



of course. sometimes, though, if the price gets too low, they sell for a loss. prices are not set by shell, nor any other company. they are set by people like you and me, as well as hedge funds, banks, etc that trade on commodities exchanges, like the nymex
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:37:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:

Originally Posted By pzjgr:
Market forces...I have no problem with capitalism. But gas prices do not have a mechanism that drives the price locally up over $1.00 in three hours...between the hours of 8:00am and 11:00am.



yes they do. it's called a big-ass hurricane flooding out half the nation's refineries.



Come on, you apparently are in NYS...you tell me how demand here in Buffalo was such that I rode into work the morning or so after, and prices had jumped to like $2.95, and when I went out for lunch at 11:30 they were up over $4.00...in like 3 1/2 hours. Market forces...bullshit.

There was no run on gas in Buffalo between 8:00 and 11:30 that would justify that rapid spike in price. Owners and distributors saw they could, cause everyone else was doing it, and they used the excuse of the hurricane to do it.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:40:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 1:41:19 PM EDT by quijanos]

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:

Originally Posted By quijanos:

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:



So what you are saying is the purchase price (oil companies) and what we (consumers) pay is different?



i'm not sure i understand what you mean here. the oil companies are the ones who produce the oil.



I mean does Shell (for instance) sell for the same price they produced the oil (plus a profit) to US oil consumers?



of course. what would you expect them to do, sell for less than it cost them to produce it? prices are not set by shell, nor any other company. they are set by people like you and me, as well as hedge funds, banks, etc that trade on commodities exchanges, like the nymex



No, I don't expect them to sell for less.........thats why I added (plus a profit) in parenthesis
Look above in red
Are you reading the posts?

But you are caught here........the prices to produce this 3 years ago plus profit doesn't explain gas prices rising a dollar over several hours. Price gouging IS GOING ON.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:40:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pzjgr:

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:

Originally Posted By pzjgr:
Market forces...I have no problem with capitalism. But gas prices do not have a mechanism that drives the price locally up over $1.00 in three hours...between the hours of 8:00am and 11:00am.



yes they do. it's called a big-ass hurricane flooding out half the nation's refineries.



Come on, you apparently are in NYS...you tell me how demand here in Buffalo was such that I rode into work the morning or so after, and prices had jumped to like $2.95, and when I went out for lunch at 11:30 they were up over $4.00...in like 3 1/2 hours. Market forces...bullshit.

There was no run on gas in Buffalo between 8:00 and 11:30 that would justify that rapid spike in price. Owners and distributors saw they could, cause everyone else was doing it, and they used the excuse of the hurricane to do it.



because during those 3 1/2 hours, news kept coming out about how badly the refineries were damaged, and thus how tight the supply situation would be over the next three weeks. basic economics. supply down, price up.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:45:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By quijanos:

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:

Originally Posted By quijanos:

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:



So what you are saying is the purchase price (oil companies) and what we (consumers) pay is different?



i'm not sure i understand what you mean here. the oil companies are the ones who produce the oil.



I mean does Shell (for instance) sell for the same price they produced the oil (plus a profit) to US oil consumers?



of course. what would you expect them to do, sell for less than it cost them to produce it? prices are not set by shell, nor any other company. they are set by people like you and me, as well as hedge funds, banks, etc that trade on commodities exchanges, like the nymex



No, I don't expect them to sell for less.........thats why I added (plus a profit) in parenthesis
Are you reading the posts?

But you are caught here........the prices to produce this 3 years ago plus profit doesn't explain gas prices rising a dollar over several hours. Price gouging IS GOING ON.



ya caught me before the edit

gasoline doesn't take 3 years to get from refinery to your local gas station. more like a few weeks. you have to understand that our economy is remarkably efficient, and changes in price due to changes in supply and demand happen in ALMOST REAL TIME. if the refineries are whacked, and therefore supply is going to go down, that means gas is going to be more scarce in the near future, and therefore more expensive. so why should gas stations sell gas to you at the "three years ago price (plus profit)" if suddenly it's going to become much more expensive to replace their gasoline stock, since the supply has suddenly dropped?
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:47:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:

Originally Posted By pzjgr:

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:

Originally Posted By pzjgr:
Market forces...I have no problem with capitalism. But gas prices do not have a mechanism that drives the price locally up over $1.00 in three hours...between the hours of 8:00am and 11:00am.



yes they do. it's called a big-ass hurricane flooding out half the nation's refineries.



Come on, you apparently are in NYS...you tell me how demand here in Buffalo was such that I rode into work the morning or so after, and prices had jumped to like $2.95, and when I went out for lunch at 11:30 they were up over $4.00...in like 3 1/2 hours. Market forces...bullshit.

There was no run on gas in Buffalo between 8:00 and 11:30 that would justify that rapid spike in price. Owners and distributors saw they could, cause everyone else was doing it, and they used the excuse of the hurricane to do it.



because during those 3 1/2 hours, news kept coming out about how badly the refineries were damaged, and thus how tight the supply situation would be over the next three weeks. basic economics. supply down, price up.



Someone had to be telling stations to up the price...you think Apu in the Quicky Mart is paying enough attention to CNN during those 3 1/2 hours to say "gee....I better raise my prices"

I don't buy it. And no where in any of my posts did I say the gov should step in and control it (not for you but for other posters), so kindly don't put words in my mouth, or make dumb assumptions. I am just sayimng that I believe that the gouge exists, and there is price fixing going on at some level.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:48:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 1:49:53 PM EDT by quijanos]

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:

Originally Posted By quijanos:

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:

Originally Posted By quijanos:

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:



So what you are saying is the purchase price (oil companies) and what we (consumers) pay is different?



i'm not sure i understand what you mean here. the oil companies are the ones who produce the oil.



I mean does Shell (for instance) sell for the same price they produced the oil (plus a profit) to US oil consumers?



of course. what would you expect them to do, sell for less than it cost them to produce it? prices are not set by shell, nor any other company. they are set by people like you and me, as well as hedge funds, banks, etc that trade on commodities exchanges, like the nymex



No, I don't expect them to sell for less.........thats why I added (plus a profit) in parenthesis
Are you reading the posts?

But you are caught here........the prices to produce this 3 years ago plus profit doesn't explain gas prices rising a dollar over several hours. Price gouging IS GOING ON.



ya caught me before the edit

gasoline doesn't take 3 years to get from refinery to your local gas station. more like a few weeks. you have to understand that our economy is remarkably efficient, and changes in price due to changes in supply and demand happen in ALMOST REAL TIME. if the refineries are whacked, and therefore supply is going to go down, that means gas is going to be more scarce in the near future, and therefore more expensive. so why should gas stations sell gas to you at the "three years ago price (plus profit)" if suddenly it's going to become much more expensive to replace their gasoline stock, since the supply has suddenly dropped?



Because you said so........ITS CALLED FUTURES. Remember?
Why should we get fucked even if the prices are only 3 weeks old??
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:48:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 1:50:08 PM EDT by argoyle]
I hesitate to reply to this thread, but here goes:


The only way there could be any "corruption" would be if EVERYONE got together and conspired...and that has about a 1 in a million chance of happening, don't be an idiot please you are all more intelligent than that.


Whatdya call OPEC? They get together and set Q's for oil, right? And firms never getting together and fixing prices? Really? My favorite (non-oil story):
In the 1980s American Airlines and now-defunct Braniff Airlines engaged in a fierce price war that eroded profits of both carriers. (1) In the midst of the battle, Robert Crandall, the president of American, made a telephone call to Howard Putman, the president of Braniff. Unbeknownst to Crandall, the phone call was being taped. The conversation went as follows:

Mr. Crandall: I think it’s dumb as hell for [blank] sake, all right, to sit here and pound the [blank] out of each other and neither one of us making a [blank] dime.

Mr. Putman: Well…

Mr. Crandall: I mean, you know, [blank] what the hell is the point of it?

Mr. Putman: But if you’re going to overlay every route of American on top of every route that Braniff has—I can’t just sit here and allow you to bury us without giving our best effort.

Mr. Crandall: Oh sure, but Eastern and Delta do the same thing in Atlanta and have for years.

Mr. Putman: Do you have any suggestions for me?

Mr. Crandall: Yes, I have a suggestion for you. Raise your [blank] fares 20 percent. I’ll raise mine the next morning.

Mr. Putman: Robert, we…

Mr. Crandall: You’ll make more money and I will, too.

Mr. Putman: We can’t talk about pricing!

Mr. Crandall: Oh [blank], Howard. We can talk about any [blank] thing we want to talk about. (2)

The taped conversation found its way to the U.S. Justice Department. Ironically, Mr. Crandall’s suggestion to raise prices did not violate Section 1 of the Sherman Act because Mr. Putman rejected the proposal. A conspiracy to fix prices requires two or more conspirators! Nevertheless, the Justice Department reminded American Airlines that its behavior could be interpreted as an attempt to monopolize a market, which would be a violation of Section 2 of the Sherman Act. American agreed to "cease and desist" from any further discussions of prices with competitors.



By the way, supply and demand is a fine (base) economic model, and can be a good outline for understanding markets. But supply and demand and collusive behavior are not mutually exclusive.



Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:51:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By quijanos:
Because you said so........ITS CALLED FUTURES. Remember?
Why should we get fucked?



exactly. the price of the gasoline futures on the NYMEX suddenly increased. so the price at the pump increased. pretty simple really. so, who controls the price of oil futures on the NYMEX? no one entity, but many including hedge funds, investment banks, oil producers and consumers hedging, and small investors like myself.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:54:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By argoyle:
I hesitate to reply to this thread, but here goes:


The only way there could be any "corruption" would be if EVERYONE got together and conspired...and that has about a 1 in a million chance of happening, don't be an idiot please you are all more intelligent than that.


Whatdya call OPEC? They get together and set Q's for oil, right? And firms never getting together and fixing prices? Really? <SNIP>




OPEC is a different story compared to "The Oil Companies". The big oil companies' production is a drop in the bucket compared to OPEC's. because OPEC controls so much of the supply, they are better able to control the prices. or at least they were, until now. OPEC is pretty much pumping at full tilt, and i doubt they could raise production enough to significantly lower prices even if they wanted to.

However, that's irrelevant for the discussion at hand, which has to do with gasoline prices, which aren't necessarily correlated to oil prices when refinery capacity is the bottleneck, not oil production as was the case during katrina.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:56:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:

Originally Posted By quijanos:
Because you said so........ITS CALLED FUTURES. Remember?
Why should we get fucked?



exactly. the price of the gasoline futures on the NYMEX suddenly increased. so the price at the pump increased. pretty simple really. so, who controls the price of oil futures on the NYMEX? no one entity, but many including hedge funds, investment banks, oil producers and consumers hedging, and small investors like myself.




Good, then you DO agree with me. The produced price (plus profit) doesn't mean shiite and we are getting Fucked price gouged. Investment banks do it on futures NOT PRESENT PRICES. I REPEAT WE ARE GETTING FUCKED. PERIOD. No flame directly at you.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:57:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:

Originally Posted By argoyle:
I hesitate to reply to this thread, but here goes:


The only way there could be any "corruption" would be if EVERYONE got together and conspired...and that has about a 1 in a million chance of happening, don't be an idiot please you are all more intelligent than that.


Whatdya call OPEC? They get together and set Q's for oil, right? And firms never getting together and fixing prices? Really? <SNIP>




OPEC is a different story compared to "The Oil Companies". The big oil companies' production is a drop in the bucket compared to OPEC's. because OPEC controls so much of the supply, they are better able to control the prices. or at least they were, until now. OPEC is pretty much pumping at full tilt, and i doubt they could raise production enough to significantly lower prices even if they wanted to.

However, that's irrelevant for the discussion at hand, which has to do with gasoline prices, which aren't necessarily correlated to oil prices when refinery capacity is the bottleneck, not oil production as was the case during katrina.



Truth be known....... the refineries were NOT damaged as much as they said and the initial assessments were WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYY outta line.

Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:58:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By quijanos:

Originally Posted By pzjgr:

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:

Originally Posted By quijanos:
*The oil companies (who I believe are in bed with car manufacturers) spin all kinda bullshit from, war, weather, hurricanes, futures and embargo's....all of which have little impact on the friggen price they are fucking us for. Yet we still get hammered.



oh, please. not this shit again.

repeat after me:

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.



Hate to threadshit...but....come on...you really expect me to believe that demand went up so fast that gas went from $2.30 something to $4.00 in a single day after Katrina....please....




NO Fucking Shit



oh yay, it's the weekly "I don't understand how the free market works" thread.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:59:06 PM EDT
The price we pay at the pump is the speculated price of the next tanker truck load.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:59:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By quijanos:

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:

Originally Posted By quijanos:
Because you said so........ITS CALLED FUTURES. Remember?
Why should we get fucked?



exactly. the price of the gasoline futures on the NYMEX suddenly increased. so the price at the pump increased. pretty simple really. so, who controls the price of oil futures on the NYMEX? no one entity, but many including hedge funds, investment banks, oil producers and consumers hedging, and small investors like myself.




Good, then you DO agree with me. The produced price (plus profit) doesn't mean shiite and we are getting Fucked price gouged. Investment banks do it on futures NOT PRESENT PRICES. I REPEAT WE ARE GETTING FUCKED. PERIOD. No flame directly at you.



you want to say you're getting fucked? fine. however, it has nothing whatsoever to do with some collusion or price fixing between the oil companies. all commodity prices are based on what might happen to the supply/demand situation in the future. same thing with stock prices. why do you see companies who aren't making a profit yet have a stock price that's soaring? reason: because investors predict that the company will be profitible in the future. it's the exact same way with commodities such as oil.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 2:00:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By quijanos:

Truth be known....... the refineries were NOT damaged as much as they said and the initial assessments were WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYY outta line.




nah, they were messed up pretty badly. due to the heroic efforts of the repair crews, however, they came back online much faster than expected.

however, how messed up they actually were does not matter when it comes to prices immediately after the hurricane. what matters is how messed up people THOUGHT they were.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 2:01:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 2:02:18 PM EDT by argoyle]

However, that's irrelevant for the discussion at hand, which has to do with gasoline prices, which aren't necessarily correlated to oil prices when refinery capacity is the bottleneck, not oil production as was the case during katrina.




Now I'm confused. Crude prices are not a factor in the price of gasoline??? Really??? No way, not gonna get away with that one. Sure, over short periods of time, refinery damage may cause a spike in prices, but the fundamental determinant of gas prices (independent of tax/environmental law changes) is crude oil. Don't believe me? Here is a link to GAO report. Check out the graph on page 5....."crude oil prices are the major determinant of gas prices."

linky to GAO report

Also, the link has interesting conclusions on the effects of mergers in oil markets.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 2:02:13 PM EDT
why don't y'all go to www.xpresstrade.com and set up a futures trading account? you don't even have to deposit any money, just go there and check it out and maybe learn a little bit about commodities and futures markets work. then, if you're so inclined, you can make a few trades and become one of the "big bad evil price fixers" yourself.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 2:02:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:

Originally Posted By quijanos:
*The oil companies (who I believe are in bed with car manufacturers) spin all kinda bullshit from, war, weather, hurricanes, futures and embargo's....all of which have little impact on the friggen price they are fucking us for. Yet we still get hammered.



oh, please. not this shit again.

repeat after me:

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.




They may not be in collusion, but there is some bullshit going on.

I worked on Endicott Island on the North Slope a few years ago. We were told we had a contract to side drill on two wells and work-over(replace production pipe) on two others.
Now understand that there are hundreds of wells on the island. When the first side drilling job hit a gusher and increased the production of the entire island by %25(just one well out of hundreds), we were immediately laid off and the other three wells, including two that were producing and just needed a work-over, were capped.

The oil companies enjoy having a shortage of oil.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 2:04:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By argoyle:

However, that's irrelevant for the discussion at hand, which has to do with gasoline prices, which aren't necessarily correlated to oil prices when refinery capacity is the bottleneck, not oil production as was the case during katrina.




Now I'm confused. Crude prices are not a factor in the price of gasoline??? Really??? No way, not gonna get away with that one. Sure, over short periods of time, refinery damage may cause a spike in prices, but the fundamental determinant of gas prices (independent of tax/environmental law changes) is crude oil. Don't believe me? Here is a link to GAO report. Check out the graph on page 5....."crude oil prices are the major determinant of gas prices."

linky to GAO report

Also, the link has interesting conclusions on the effects of mergers in oil markets.



i didn't say that. i said that during (and immediately after) hurricane katrina, oil wasn't the big problem. we had plenty of oil stored in the SPR, and bush released it after the hurricane, and the oil demand situation wasn't dire. however, there is no "Strategic gasoline reserve", and the lack of refinery capacity meant that oil wasn't the cause of high prices at the pump after the 'cane.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 2:05:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ragnaroc:

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:

Originally Posted By quijanos:
*The oil companies (who I believe are in bed with car manufacturers) spin all kinda bullshit from, war, weather, hurricanes, futures and embargo's....all of which have little impact on the friggen price they are fucking us for. Yet we still get hammered.



oh, please. not this shit again.

repeat after me:

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.




They may not be in collusion, but there is some bullshit going on.

I worked on Endicott Island on the North Slope a few years ago. We were told we had a contract to side drill on two wells and work-over(replace production pipe) on two others.
Now understand that there are hundreds of wells on the island. When the first side drilling job hit a gusher and increased the production of the entire island by %25(just one well out of hundreds), we were immediately laid off and the other three wells, including two that were producing and just needed a work-over, were capped.

The oil companies enjoy having a shortage of oil.



how long ago was this? throughout most of the 90's, the oil price was so low that many wells couldn't be produced profitably, and were ignored and saved for later.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 2:10:27 PM EDT
And I think one has to consider that there is certainly the temptation to collude, whenever there are a few big players in the game. IIRC, the very large oil companies didn't do so bad profit-wise at the end of last year, right? Is this perhaps why people are peeved. Sure, they are profit-maximizing noone can blame them right?

Did they collude? Who knows? No evidence to suggest that. But they clearly profited from the conditions in the market.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 2:11:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 2:14:16 PM EDT by Ragnaroc]

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:

Originally Posted By Ragnaroc:

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:

Originally Posted By quijanos:
*The oil companies (who I believe are in bed with car manufacturers) spin all kinda bullshit from, war, weather, hurricanes, futures and embargo's....all of which have little impact on the friggen price they are fucking us for. Yet we still get hammered.



oh, please. not this shit again.

repeat after me:

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.




They may not be in collusion, but there is some bullshit going on.

I worked on Endicott Island on the North Slope a few years ago. We were told we had a contract to side drill on two wells and work-over(replace production pipe) on two others.
Now understand that there are hundreds of wells on the island. When the first side drilling job hit a gusher and increased the production of the entire island by %25(just one well out of hundreds), we were immediately laid off and the other three wells, including two that were producing and just needed a work-over, were capped.

The oil companies enjoy having a shortage of oil.



how long ago was this? throughout most of the 90's, the oil price was so low that many wells couldn't be produced profitably, and were ignored and saved for later.



2003

ETA-late winter-early spring, Endicott isn't allowed to drill in the summer.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 2:12:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SWS:
The government should ensure that gasoline never exceeds $1 per gallon. The government should also heavily tax the giant, evil, gluttonous oil companies and distribute the money to the poor and laid-off union workers.

As an American, cheap gasoline is my birthright!




YOUR DAMN RIGHT BROTHER........... glad someone finally said it............I mean............well....uh

<­BR>

I just figured he was fixin to get his ass stomped.........time to go....lol.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 2:14:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ragnaroc:

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:

Originally Posted By Ragnaroc:

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:

Originally Posted By quijanos:
*The oil companies (who I believe are in bed with car manufacturers) spin all kinda bullshit from, war, weather, hurricanes, futures and embargo's....all of which have little impact on the friggen price they are fucking us for. Yet we still get hammered.



oh, please. not this shit again.

repeat after me:

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.




They may not be in collusion, but there is some bullshit going on.

I worked on Endicott Island on the North Slope a few years ago. We were told we had a contract to side drill on two wells and work-over(replace production pipe) on two others.
Now understand that there are hundreds of wells on the island. When the first side drilling job hit a gusher and increased the production of the entire island by %25(just one well out of hundreds), we were immediately laid off and the other three wells, including two that were producing and just needed a work-over, were capped.

The oil companies enjoy having a shortage of oil.



how long ago was this? throughout most of the 90's, the oil price was so low that many wells couldn't be produced profitably, and were ignored and saved for later.



2003

ETA-early spring, Endicott isn't allowed to drill in the summer.



throughout most of 2003, the oil price was only in the mid $20's. i'm not saying that i know what was going on in that particular situation, nor could i know without seeing some of the reservoir engineering reports, but it's certainly possible that for some reason or another they decided that it was not economical to produce at the time and would be saved for later.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 2:27:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bastiat:

Originally Posted By quijanos:

Originally Posted By pzjgr:

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:

Originally Posted By quijanos:
*The oil companies (who I believe are in bed with car manufacturers) spin all kinda bullshit from, war, weather, hurricanes, futures and embargo's....all of which have little impact on the friggen price they are fucking us for. Yet we still get hammered.



oh, please. not this shit again.

repeat after me:

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT IN COLLUSION AND DO NOT CONTROL THE PRICES. THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY COMMODITIES TRADERS AS WELL AS YOU, THE CONSUMER, BY HOW MUCH OIL YOU DEMAND.



Hate to threadshit...but....come on...you really expect me to believe that demand went up so fast that gas went from $2.30 something to $4.00 in a single day after Katrina....please....




NO Fucking Shit



oh yay, it's the weekly "I don't understand how the free market works" thread.



Explain it to me then Expert
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