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Posted: 4/7/2006 11:39:03 AM EDT
My thought, is the ATF was way over zealous in going after gun prosecutions because Clinton was very anti-gun. These things happened because it was condoned by Clinton through his main squeeze Reno.

Personally I don't think these would have happened if Bush had been elected instead of Clinton.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 11:41:06 AM EDT
I thought Ruby Ridge was during the Bush Administration?
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 11:42:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:
I thought Ruby Ridge was during the Bush Administration?



+1

George HW Bush is no shining example of freedom. he brought us the import ban and ruby ridge.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 11:43:42 AM EDT
There would have been a show down with Law Enforcement either way. But there would have been very different outcomes in Clinton was not President.

He set the tone, and Remo carried out the orders.

Don't think there would have been ill planned shootouts if there was a pro gun President in charge.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 11:44:29 AM EDT
Ruby Ridge had already happened, but Waco could have been avoided, or turned out differently.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 11:47:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 11:52:54 AM EDT by Bullitt3401]
I'm going to be devil's advocate and say it probably would have happened.

You have to remember they pulled that stunt with John Lawmaster, and that was during George H. Bush's time in office.

GHB was whacked out of his mind post Destert Storm One (still is, BTW) and if he'd been re-elected, I think he'd let the BATF spill as much blood that they thought they could get away with in order to get more funding. That was what The Waco attack was all about.

-Scott
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 11:54:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 11:57:00 AM EDT by MTUSA]

Originally Posted By Bullitt3401:


GHB was whacked out of his mind post Destert Storm One (and still is, BTW)





I agree. after DS-1 he was like Heston in 10 cmmdts coming down from the mt.
Very aged and seemingy punch drunk. He did not want the job anymore.
His second term campaign was very French like.
He's got to be nuts if his new bud is Billy Jeff
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 12:00:19 PM EDT
Ok, I've had enough of today. I'm brain dead.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 12:01:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By UZI4you:
There would have been a show down with Law Enforcement either way. But there would have been very different outcomes in Clinton was not President.

He set the tone, and Remo carried out the orders.

Don't think there would have been ill planned shootouts if there was a pro gun President in charge.



GHWB was not pro-gun, just another big .gov statist like junior.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 12:06:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:
I thought Ruby Ridge was during the Bush Administration?



+1

George HW Bush is no shining example of freedom. he brought us the import ban and ruby ridge.




After 16 months of surveillance of the Weaver property ... and on August 21, 1992, several well-armed US Marshals went to the Weaver property


I always though Clinton was in office but Bush Sr. was.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 12:12:34 PM EDT
Bush, Sr. and Clinton were both big .gov guys.
Ruby Ridge and the Import Ban happened on GHWB's watch.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 12:13:27 PM EDT
Considering the BATFE for sure and the FBI in some respects are out of control organizations with their own agendas, whomever is in power be damned, I think they would've.

BATFE has made it clear they think they are some sort of avenging angels whose job it is to disarm the public...when in fact hey are nothing more than gun hating JBT douchebags....
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 12:23:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 12:44:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 12:46:33 PM EDT by thedoctors308]

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
the only difference at waco MIGHT have been the fact we may have had a competant attourney general running the show. i still think armed conflict with the dividians was ineviatable at some level.

they were well armed, prepared and motivated,not to mention a bit looney. the government doesn't like people like that and will go out of it's way to neutralise them
.



So...armed conflict was inevitable.
Whos fault was that?
The Branch Davdian's, or the US government's?
Seems to me they sought out a conflict.
The BD wasn't like the Black Panthers, or Weather Underground, out there knocking off banks.
They removed themselves from what they thought was a sinful society.
They thought they would be attacked by the forces of "Babylon" an apostate gov't.
Looks like that prophecy came true, now didn't it?
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 12:56:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:
I thought Ruby Ridge was during the Bush Administration?



+1

George HW Bush is no shining example of freedom. he brought us the import ban and ruby ridge.



Amen brother.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:13:51 PM EDT
How long did the Ruby Ridge action take; a few hours, maybe?

Does anyone thing GHWB (or any president who might have been there at the time) would have even had advance notice or known about it before it was essentially over?

Just askin'
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:22:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By new_RRA_user:
How long did the Ruby Ridge action take; a few hours, maybe?
Just askin'


I don't remember the exact duration but it was several days.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:23:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By new_RRA_user:
How long did the Ruby Ridge action take; a few hours, maybe?

Does anyone thing GHWB (or any president who might have been there at the time) would have even had advance notice or known about it before it was essentially over?

Just askin'



IIRC, the ATF is part of the justice department which is part of the executive branch of government, which is controlled by the president.

The president is responsible for the activities of the ATF, and needs to be aware what they are up to.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:26:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
the only difference at waco MIGHT have been the fact we may have had a competant attourney general running the show. i still think armed conflict with the dividians was ineviatable at some level.

they were well armed, prepared and motivated,not to mention a bit looney. the government doesn't like people like that and will go out of it's way to neutralise them
.



So...armed conflict was inevitable.
Whos fault was that?
The Branch Davdian's, or the US government's?
Seems to me they sought out a conflict.
The BD wasn't like the Black Panthers, or Weather Underground, out there knocking off banks.
They removed themselves from what they thought was a sinful society.
They thought they would be attacked by the forces of "Babylon" an apostate gov't.
Looks like that prophecy came true, now didn't it?



Prophecy?

More like, Howell's plan came true.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:42:52 PM EDT
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