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Posted: 4/4/2006 5:04:53 PM EDT
The judge's idea of possession and permission is interesting in this one.


Boy who posed with guns convicted

April 4, 2006
An Evergreen high school student who posted Internet photos of himself posing with guns was convicted Tuesday on a charge of possession of a handgun by a juvenile.
The conviction came despite his parents' testimony that they gave him permission to handle guns in their home without their supervision.

Colorado law prohibits possession of a handgun by a juvenile, but permits parents to give them permission to possess guns in their homes, even without supervision.

"This is a very difficult case," defense attorney Barrett Weisz said in his closing argument after a trial that began Friday.

"We have pictures that raise images of the Columbine massacre. But if we set the specter of Columbine aside," he argued, the boy should be acquitted and sent home.

The photos were posted on the popular teen web site myspace.com. The photos showed him posing with a number of rifles and three handguns — a .45 caliber pistol, and .22 and .357 revolvers.

The 16-year-old boy, who has been held in detention since his arrest in February, will be sentenced June 1. He was acquitted on two additional charges of handgun possession.

The judge set a $5,000 bond, but ordered that the boy must be evaluated and a safety plan drawn up before he can be released.

The boy's parents testified that they were upset and disappointed with their son when they discovered the photos, but said he had permission to handle the weapons.

"I was not pleased and told him to take (the photos) down," his father testified. "I told him, 'what were you thinking when you took these pictures?' I was upset."

The father, a gun collector and enthusiast who is an airline pilot and retired Air Force pilot, said he gave the boy and his brother extensive training in the safe handling of weapons.

He said he gave his sons permission to handle the guns in the home even when he wasn't there, and the boys had access to keys to trigger locks.

"It was due to their experience and my trust in them" to safely handle the weapons, he said. They often cleaned the guns after they had gone shooting and he was out of town for his job, he said. They also built guns from kits, he said.
But Jefferson County District Judge Brian Boatright said that permission had limits.

"That doesn't mean juveniles could run around the house and do whatever he wanted with the gun," Boatright said, noting that the father testified that the boys were not allowed to load or fire the weapons unless he was present.

Boatright acquitted the boy on two charges in which he posed with the handguns but did not have his finger on the trigger. One of the charges stemmed from a photo entitled "angel of death" in which he posed on the floor with guns surrounding his body.

He also stated in the myspace.com posting that people "deserve to die."





http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_4595681,00.html
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:06:02 PM EDT
Where was this?
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:06:50 PM EDT
Shouldnt have ever gotten this far in the first place.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:08:31 PM EDT
Kid will learn early lesson on how saying stupid things will get you in trouble. Mental Darwin effect.

Too bad our rights are suffering due to their stupidity.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:09:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BuckeyeRifleman:
Where was this?



Colorado
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:11:43 PM EDT
wait a second... didnt this come out a few weeks ago?

I know the news artical has todays date but I KNOW I read this same story a few weeks ago ... maybe on SIGforum?

the reason I remember was the "angel of death" part. People posted pics of their kids with guns in the same thread....

i gotta look for it now, i cant remember where I read it.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:12:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By binary0101:
wait a second... didnt this come out a few weeks ago?

I know the news artical has todays date but I KNOW I read this same story a few weeks ago ... maybe on SIGforum?

the reason I remember was the "angel of death" part. People posted pics of their kids with guns in the same thread....

i gotta look for it now, i cant remember where I read it.


Sounds familiar.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:13:45 PM EDT
Holy crap! The ball is rolling toward a society like in the movie "Demolition Man".
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:16:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lu380:
Holy crap! The ball is rolling toward a society like in the movie "Demolition Man".



Be well, lu380.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:17:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lu380:
Holy crap! The ball is rolling toward a society like in the movie "Demolition Man".



Be well lu380...

I'm moving into the fucking sewers!
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:22:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/4/2006 5:23:38 PM EDT by PeteCO]

Originally Posted By binary0101:
wait a second... didnt this come out a few weeks ago?

I know the news artical has todays date but I KNOW I read this same story a few weeks ago ... maybe on SIGforum?

the reason I remember was the "angel of death" part. People posted pics of their kids with guns in the same thread....

i gotta look for it now, i cant remember where I read it.



Yeah that's when he was originally arrested. This is when he was convicted. Convicted of what I don't know, but he was convicted, apparently. If the law contains that exemption, and the parents assert that they gave him permission, I don't see how the judge could possibly convict him.

Fucked up.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:22:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By lu380:
Holy crap! The ball is rolling toward a society like in the movie "Demolition Man".



Be well lu380...

I'm moving into the fucking sewers!



Enhance your calm.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:24:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/5/2006 6:19:57 PM EDT by BigHunter27]
H..
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:25:01 PM EDT
rule #1 don't post about it on the fucking internet!

i learned about that after i lost all my guns in a tragic boating accident
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:26:20 PM EDT
v
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:27:29 PM EDT

They also built guns from kits, he said.


OK, who was it????
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:29:02 PM EDT
GODDAMN IT THIS SHIT PISSES ME OFF SO BAD!!
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:30:22 PM EDT
I can't come up with anything to say that doesn't involve extremely long sentences composed of nothing but the most filthy and vile obseneties that one could imagine.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:32:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/4/2006 5:32:32 PM EDT by binary0101]

Originally Posted By PeteCO:

Yeah that's when he was originally arrested. This is when he was convicted.



ok, now I get it thanks
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:33:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By lu380:
Holy crap! The ball is rolling toward a society like in the movie "Demolition Man".



Be well lu380...

I'm moving into the fucking sewers!



lu380, you are fined one credit for a violation of the verbal morality statute.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:35:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:
rule #1 don't post about it on the fucking internet!

i learned about that after i lost all my guns in a tragic boating accident



Napoleon_Tanerite, you are fined one credit for a violation of the verbal morality statute.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:35:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 20iner:
GODDAMN IT THIS SHIT PISSES ME OFF SO BAD!!



20iner, you are fined three credits for a violation of the verbal morality statute.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:37:40 PM EDT
Fuckin PC Pansies

Cant hardly have guns, can't wear patriotic colors in school, nor fly the American Flag


This shit has GOT to end
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:37:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lu380:
Holy crap! The ball is rolling toward a society like in the movie "Demolition Man".



lu380, you are fined one credit for violation of the verbal morality statute.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:38:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JohnTheTexican:

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By lu380:
Holy crap! The ball is rolling toward a society like in the movie "Demolition Man".



Be well lu380...

I'm moving into the fucking sewers!



lu380, you are fined one credit for a violation of the verbal morality statute.



DAMN YOU!!!!!!
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:41:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Grunteled:

Originally Posted By JohnTheTexican:

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By lu380:
Holy crap! The ball is rolling toward a society like in the movie "Demolition Man".



Be well lu380...

I'm moving into the fucking sewers!



lu380, you are fined one credit for a violation of the verbal morality statute.



DAMN YOU!!!!!!



Gruntled, you are fined one credit for a violation of the verbal morality statute.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:42:47 PM EDT
Oh for crying out fucking loud. Thats the biggest bunch of bullshit i've ever heard.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:49:08 PM EDT
If they think that they can disarm me that they are wrong.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:49:17 PM EDT
Colorado has really gone downhill politically.

They need to appeal. The justice system is FUBAR'd but I would think there is a fiar shot at getting this overturned.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:51:38 PM EDT
thats a nice m1a1 and i like the Tac vest, im thinking of buying one of those tac vests advertised on www.centerfiresystems.com when i get a little money of my own. I would have to agree that there isnt any way that the judge could convict him of a crime that he didnt commit. If it not against the law for a minor to be in posession of a handgun in his own home with the permission of his parents then how did they prosecute this case and what was the charge.

in addition it says that they didnt press charges for the first two photos but did for the third because it showed poor trigger control, not indexing ect. WTF!!?? so the first two photos werent a crime but the third was? this is really stupid
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:52:35 PM EDT
Should not have convicted him. But the boy was stupid.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:52:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BigHunter27:
SHIT IM 16 AND MY PROFILE PIC IS ME WITH MY M1A

heres my OLD pic of me that WAS on my myspace
img91.imageshack.us/img91/9850/tacticalblake0022gb.th.jpg
I need to lose the beret and work on my trigger finger




First off you are under 18 so watch your language. Secondly after just hearing that someone your age was just convicted of doing the exact same thing you post a picture of yourself doing it. Please for your own safety do not run with scissors.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:52:58 PM EDT
Bunch of damn morons on MySpace.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:57:24 PM EDT
So does anyone know if he was convicted of a felony or a misdameanor?

How will this affect his rights to gun ownership when he turns legal?

Will the parents have to sell their guns when the kid moves back into their house (if ever) since he would be a convicted person within possible possession of a firearm?
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:59:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JohnTheTexican:

Originally Posted By 20iner:
GODDAMN IT THIS SHIT PISSES ME OFF SO BAD!!



20iner, you are fined three credits for a violation of the verbal morality statute.




'MURDER DEATH KILL' in progress!

Link Posted: 4/4/2006 6:04:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Silesius:
Bunch of damn morons on MySpace.



While the very idea of minors flaunting themselves for pedophiles on myspace is rather loathesome, and posing with guns around you and calling it "angel of death" is just plain retarded, I would not allow my son to go to jail for this. Read into that what you will.

I would not allow him to go to jail not because I think he doesn't deserve punishment (hell, I'd kick his ass), I wouldn't allow him to go to jail because the state has no jurisdiction over this case. He hurt no one and did not break any constitutional laws. Children have, for thousands of years, found daddy's wartime weapons and pulled them out of the closet, covered in dust, to play with them and pretend to be warriors. It is the way of boys. The only difference now is that some are foolish enough to take pictures of it. I would worry about any son I had that did not express an interest in weapons.

Very rarely would I advocate the resistance of the law, but if the law comes for my family under illegal pretenses, they are illegal aggressors and will be dealt with accordingly (peacefully and legally if at all possible).
Matt
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 6:32:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BigHunter27:
SHIT IM 16 AND MY PROFILE PIC IS ME WITH MY M1A

heres my OLD pic of me that WAS on my myspace
img91.imageshack.us/img91/9850/tacticalblake0022gb.th.jpg
I need to lose the beret and work on my trigger finger



Look at those red eyes! I KNEW GUNS MADE PEOPLE EVIL!!!!
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 7:52:40 PM EDT
I would bet any money that the Dad, and probably the sons are members here.

Can't say I blame them much for not speaking up.

Either way, they got a raw deal. At least if dad is an Airline pilot, he has the funds to keep apealing.

No doubt what the kid did was stupid, but it does not warrant him being brought into the system.

Oh well, my hard earned tax money at work.....at the Dept. of Precrime. Very disturbing to say the least.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:02:09 PM EDT
while I personally wouldn't advocate it, I see no reason to call the kid "stupid" for posing with firearms.

How many pics and videos have we seen here of people posing with machine guns?

unlike shoot n scoot, no laws were being broken.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:06:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/4/2006 8:07:43 PM EDT by 1Andy2]

"This is a very difficult case," defense attorney Barrett Weisz said in his closing argument after a trial that began Friday.

"We have pictures that raise images of the Columbine massacre. But if we set the specter of Columbine aside," he argued, the boy should be acquitted and sent home.



Translation: "He didn't actually break any law, but I've decided that kids with guns are scary and I need a get tough on crime case to ensure my re-election."

I beleive some people deserve to die too.

eta: Yes, I know the defense attorney said it.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:21:49 PM EDT


Un-Be-Lievable.

So the kid broke no laws, but the judge is sending him to jail anyway.

That's how I read it -- maybe I'm missing something.




Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:40:06 PM EDT
So what was the basis of convicted him? Because they were scared he was going to turn out to be a Columbine kid? WTF, this is America, Innocent until proven guilty. Sounds like they must have a crystal ball and see in the future he was going to open fire on school children. I refer back to the article where it says what he did, WAS NOT ILLEGAL!


An Evergreen high school student who posted Internet photos of himself posing with guns was convicted Tuesday on a charge of possession of a handgun by a juvenile.
The conviction came despite his parents' testimony that they gave him permission to handle guns in their home without their supervision.

Colorado law prohibits possession of a handgun by a juvenile, but permits parents to give them permission to possess guns in their homes, even without supervision.

Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:43:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/4/2006 8:43:39 PM EDT by etexer]
That's some shit !!! Wish there was a way we could back this kid up some how. Heres what I think....www.myspaceisgay.com/ I cant stand mspace and have always made fun of myspacers....but thats messed up there !!!!
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:49:49 PM EDT
I don't see a problem EXCEPT for the whole "angel of death" thing and "people deserve to die" comments.

HELLO KID, did you forget about colombine? Did you think that the whole world (basically) on Myspace wouldn't notice that a angsty little 16 year old bitch was posting pictures of him with guns and insinuating killing people?

hmmm...
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:51:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By david_g17:
while I personally wouldn't advocate it, I see no reason to call the kid "stupid" for posing with firearms.

How many pics and videos have we seen here of people posing with machine guns?

unlike shoot n scoot, no laws were being broken.



Hey I'm on this families side. However, I do think it is stupid to post a picture on myspace which shows you surrounded by guns with a caption that says "angel of death"

Stupid as in "take that shit down", not as in "you are under arrest" We are in agreement that no crime was committed, and the Law should not be involved.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 9:38:14 PM EDT
It's nice to see that America is still the land where you're innocent until proven guilty.

I mean, he had pictures of himself with guns. And he was a teenager. CLEARLY, this shows intent to use them in a school shooting. This kid is a danger to society and must be imprisioned, especially since he didn't harm anyone or break any single law that exists on the books!

Remember... it's for the children. Afterall, who cares how fucked up mentally they are when we're done with them? We just want nice, moldable young men of the state that are willing to serve the govern.... Um... no, we want to safeguard our children. Sorry 'bout that.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 10:27:25 PM EDT
So he fell under a concrete exception in the law; but the judge determines the definition of the exception? Do normal judges have that power? (legally, disregarding wheter they use it anyway)
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 6:10:29 AM EDT
That judge sounds like a fucking asshole, and he needs his teeth kicked out.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 6:17:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By david_g17:
while I personally wouldn't advocate it, I see no reason to call the kid "stupid" for posing with firearms.



The stupid part was likening himself to the angel of death and posting a list of people he wanted to kill.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 6:25:45 AM EDT
Hmmm my little 16 year old brother is on there with a M249. I guess i should warn him.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 6:38:05 AM EDT
Then there are stories like this….

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=452199

The short version is that an 18 year old woman was raped, they caught the rapist, who was also a suspect in a robbery… And they released the rapist on his own recognizance.

Think about this for a bit.

Some kid posts pictures of himself with a few guns, no crime is committed, and he gets convicted on some extremely bizarre “possession” charge. Don’t like the pictures? Fine, it’s a supposedly free country.

But people get NEA grants to take pictures of crosses in jars of urine. And anyone who even suggests that maybe Uncle Sugar shouldn’t be finding blasphemy is called a religious extremist fascist censor. Of course if a purely private individual uses purely private resources to publish cartoons about the prophet of the ROP then bookstores won’t carry them because it would offend someone’s religious sensibilities.

The pictures that kid took qualify as artistic. It might not be good art, but it is art. And art is protected by the First Amendment. Kid should have posted a picture of himself aiming at a Bible; then the judge would have ordered the NEA to give him a check for $10,000.

I don’t recognize my country anymore.
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