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Posted: 4/2/2006 6:40:36 PM EDT
Good evening, ARFCOMMERs. Here is the deal - I'm a 17 year old high school senior, martial arts teacher, and highpower shooter as well as smallbore coach. Recently I have been accepted to North Georgia College & State University, a senior military college. The program there offers plenty of opportunites for a prospective Army officer ( Army ROTC ), as well as FTXs, drill and ceremony, solid academics, as well as a college highpower rifle team.

However, it is my wish to join the Marine Corps. They do not offer NROTC, so during my junior year I will have to take USMC PLC in order to gain a commission ( Have no worries of my physical abilities, gentlemen ).

There are several problems though. I'm looking to be heavily involved ( Due to my total experience in marksmanship now and in the future, as well as the Corps need for a new marksmanship training regimen ) in the Marine Corps Marksmanship Training Unit, Scout/Sniper batallions, range management, maybe even the OIC of the Rifle and Pistol teams. The problem arises when I see nothing but Warrant Officers as COs, range officers ( MOS 9925 ), etc. Here are my questions :

1. Can a 2nd Lt in the Corps be assigned the 9925 MOS?

2. Since the USMC doesn't operate like the Army and give you a choice in MOS selection, how would one go about giving themselves the best chance to get their first or second choices out of PLC?

3. How would an officer go about becoming in command of marksmanship training, small-arms testing, etc.?

4. I accept the reality that I could be called to combat. I promise I will serve the United States honorably - what role does the Marksmanship Training Unit play overseas currently?

5. What level of involvement can an officer expect in the Competition In Arms Program ( CIAP )?

6. The needs of the Corps are more important than mine. Just how badly do they need practical and competitive marksmanship programs?

Thank you. More Chi, Semper Fi, and God Bless America.

Link Posted: 4/2/2006 6:53:17 PM EDT
HEHEHEHE,,Back in the good ole days,,Zeros had no say where they went and the Corps didn't want our Zeros to specialise in any thing . Never in my career did I meet a Zero with a guarentee.
But hey I'm old Corps,,,good luck.
BTW even my favorite lewie ,,who shot with me ,,and he was damn good,,took 4 more yrs after becoming a Capt,,and finally became a tm OIC.

Me I had a great place,,and was also afforded the oportunity to be a PMI along with shooting pistol/rifle tm.


SEMPER FIDELIS
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 7:05:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Blackjack272:
Good evening, ARFCOMMERs. Here is the deal - I'm a 17 year old high school senior, martial arts teacher, and highpower shooter as well as smallbore coach. Recently I have been accepted to North Georgia College & State University, a senior military college. The program there offers plenty of opportunites for a prospective Army officer ( Army ROTC ), as well as FTXs, drill and ceremony, solid academics, as well as a college highpower rifle team.

However, it is my wish to join the Marine Corps. They do not offer NROTC, so during my junior year I will have to take USMC PLC in order to gain a commission ( Have no worries of my physical abilities, gentlemen ).

There are several problems though. I'm looking to be heavily involved ( Due to my total experience in marksmanship now and in the future, as well as the Corps need for a new marksmanship training regimen ) in the Marine Corps Marksmanship Training Unit, Scout/Sniper batallions, range management, maybe even the OIC of the Rifle and Pistol teams. The problem arises when I see nothing but Warrant Officers as COs, range officers ( MOS 9925 ), etc. Here are my questions :

1. Can a 2nd Lt in the Corps be assigned the 9925 MOS?



No, it is not a primary MOS for a commisioned officer. I'm not sure whether or not a commissioned officer can get it as a secondary MOS.


2. Since the USMC doesn't operate like the Army and give you a choice in MOS selection, how would one go about giving themselves the best chance to get their first or second choices out of PLC?


Marine Officers don't get assigned an MOS out of PLC or OCS or whatever their commissioning source may be. Officers get their MOS toward the end of The Basic School. Each Basic School class works MOS selection slightly differently, and it may have changed in the ten years since I was there, but your best bet is to graduate as high as you can in your TBS company and have a good reputation with the Captains who are the Staff Platoon Commanders.


3. How would an officer go about becoming in command of marksmanship training, small-arms testing, etc.?


Your best bet is to get involved with your battalion's or unit's shooting team once you get to the fleet. Most units have a team that participates in what they call Division Matches. If you do well enough at Division Matches, you move on to regional matches and that's where you can gain points and start becoming a "Distinguished" shooter in the Marines and getting special badges. I shot in Division Matches once but didn't move on to any more matches so I'm not that familiar with the other shooting matches.

As far as getting into a "marksmanship" billet, most officers assigned to the range are infantry officers who are coming off a tour from an infantry battalion. Or, they go 6 months temporary duty to the range. It is not a "career enhancing" tour to be assigned as a range OIC. There's probably what the Marines call a "B" billet, or a spot for an officer to do a tour outside of his MOS and the fleet, which allows an officer (probably an infantry officer) to do a tour with the marksmanship unit, but it's probably hard to get, and the Marine who gets it probably has to have a good reputation in the USMC "shooting" community via Division matches, etc.


4. I accept the reality that I could be called to combat. I promise I will serve the United States honorably - what role does the Marksmanship Training Unit play overseas currently?


Not much that I'm aware of. If a unit does any marksmanship training overseas, the unit's own officers run the training after going to a range safety officer class.


5. What level of involvement can an officer expect in the Competition In Arms Program ( CIAP )?


Not much, especially during your first tour, because you're going to be very busy learning your MOS and taking care of your Marines, not to mention deploying these days. Later in your career, maybe more, but you'd really have to make the effort, and it will probably be on your own time.


6. The needs of the Corps are more important than mine. Just how badly do they need practical and competitive marksmanship programs?


The military can always use improved marksmanship training. The Marine Corps recently (in the last few years) added the Enhanced Marksmanship Program (EMP) for Marines deploying to the Middle East. We also recently added more pratical components to our standard rifle range. As far as competitive marksmanship, there are opportunities there, but again it will mostly be on your own time and/or by your own efforts, and your normal duties, your Marines, and deployments obviously and rightfully take precedence.

Hope this Helps

JDC


Link Posted: 4/2/2006 7:48:44 PM EDT
Had a good friend of ours who spent 4 years enlisted in the Navy, finished college through that and then went in the Army as an officer and was a Captain....maybe you might endure the one service to finish your college and training and then reenlist in the USMC for the commission...??

Link Posted: 4/2/2006 7:51:45 PM EDT
My uncle went in with a MOS of artillery, and he retired as the CO of Weapons Training Battalion. They will put you where they want you.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 11:00:25 AM EDT
Thank you guys.

JDC_VA_USMC, would you be able to find out if a commissioned officer can have MOS 9925 as his secondary MOS? What exactly is the purpose of a secondary MOS if you most likely will not be working in that capacity?

Would you have any idea how one is to 'get involved' in the battallion shooting team? I guarantee I can make one hell of an impression on the USMC Rifle Team - I had a talk with Kevin Abrogast ( Rifle Team Captain ), and he's telling me the teams scout out new shooters at the division level matches.

johnrj, can't do that. Education first, military second. I want school out of the way, and prefer to have something to fall back on to make myself marketable in the civilian sector in case I cannot stay in the Corps.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 11:05:17 AM EDT
Have you thought about ROTC? I have met quite a few cadets from academies and they seem pretty burnt out with academy life, most of them said they wish they could have had a normal college experience.

Just something to think about, walk around at a big State college and just take a look at all the pie just waiting to be ate...
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 11:11:31 AM EDT
Yes, I'm doing ROTC at North Georgia State, and yes, I've seen plenty of the pie.

Alas, though, I've got one girl I'm after. Not one-hundred.

Link Posted: 4/3/2006 11:47:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Blackjack272:
Thank you guys.

JDC_VA_USMC, would you be able to find out if a commissioned officer can have MOS 9925 as his secondary MOS? What exactly is the purpose of a secondary MOS if you most likely will not be working in that capacity?

Would you have any idea how one is to 'get involved' in the battallion shooting team? I guarantee I can make one hell of an impression on the USMC Rifle Team - I had a talk with Kevin Abrogast ( Rifle Team Captain ), and he's telling me the teams scout out new shooters at the division level matches.

johnrj, can't do that. Education first, military second. I want school out of the way, and prefer to have something to fall back on to make myself marketable in the civilian sector in case I cannot stay in the Corps.



From what I just read in the USMC MOS manual, it looks like it's a warrant officer or enlisted only MOS. A secondary MOS is given to an officer when he does duties outside of his primary MOS and qualifies for the secondary MOS. So, it is related to what he is doing. It is more of a designator than anything. For instance, my primary MOS is C2 Systems (used to be Communications) officer, but since I did civil affairs training and performed civil affairs in Iraq for 7 months, I now have the secondary MOS of 0530, civil affairs officer. Certain officers who go to grad school get a secondary MOS depending upon their degree.

Bottom line, a commissioned Marine officer cannot make a career out of shooting or being a range officer, which is why it is not a primary MOS. So, if you're joining the military primarily because you want to be on a shooting team, then becoming a Marine officer is not the way to go. However, if you decide to become a Marine Officer for other reasons, then once you get through TBS, your primary MOS school, and then get to the fleet, ask your commanding officer about the unit's shooting team, and get involved. With your qualifications it sounds like you'd be an asset to the unit's team. If your unit doesn't have a team, you can start one. Again, this is going to be a low priority for you and your unit, especially if you're deploying soon. As you switch units, make sure you stay involved in shooting and go to division matches and regional matches. If the opportunity comes along for you to get assigned a tour with a weapons training battalion or with the USMC shooting team, great. But, it's not a given, and you'd have to really put an effort into it by having a good shooting record at the matches you participate in.

Competitive shooting for someone in the Marines, especially an officer, is mostly going to be a hobby that you pursue on your own time, or with your unit's shooting team at division matches once a year if your unit has one and isn't deployed when they take place. Rarely will it be a full time job, and if it is, it will be a single, 2-3 year tour in a 20 year career if you stick around. And that's if the timing is right.

JDC
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 11:51:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/3/2006 11:52:29 AM EDT by Bklyn_Irish]
Might not be too late to apply for a waiver for admission in the Fall at The Citadel

You won't go wrong with their NROTC Department.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 12:53:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/3/2006 12:54:41 PM EDT by ODA_564]
In the Army, its pretty much the kiss of death to an officer's career.

I led my battalion's team in the 5th Army pistol matches at Fort Riley in 1982. My battalion commander cautioned me "don't win, but don't embarrass the Regiment either."

If we'd won, we'd have been TDY to the All-Amy matches, etc. for a year and every shooter would have been effectively a loss to the battalion (with no replacement).

We came in second in the Patton Cup (Combat Pistol). The 701st Maintenance Battalion was using M1911A1s that they had reworked to NM standards (they had a small arms repair section with a former AMU small arms repairman). We had standard arms rooms M1911A1s.

We were first overall and individually until the last firing order. I dropped one shot in the 10 ring (all the rest were 'x ring' and the CW3 from the 701st had all 'x ring'. Since I consistently out-shot him he was thrilled to have 'kicked my ass'. I smiled and said "enjoy your year at Benning!" and his face dropped.

A year shoot competitively would have been fun, but I wouldn't have seen another promotion.

There are very few officers involved in the AMU especially since the demise of the CONUS armies and the numbered Army Marksmanship Training Units (like the old First Army MTU, Third Army MTU, Sixth Army MTU, etc.). There are Army officers that are competitive shooters who sometimes wind up at the AMU as LTCs or COLs, but no officer makes a career shooting.

You can, however, try out for the AMU as a civilian and then enlist for it. USAMU Web Site

edited for spelling

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