Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Posted: 3/31/2006 8:54:57 PM EDT
Since the original poster saw fit to yank the plug on the thread I am going to revive it.

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=451053

Particularly interested in those who lived in the area or had 1st, 2nd, even 3rd hand knowledge about the case.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 8:57:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
Since the original poster saw fit to yank the plug on the thread I am going to revive it.

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=451053

Particularly interested in those who lived in the area or had 1st, 2nd, even 3rd hand knowledge about the case.



thanks.

Just looking trough the book here.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 9:09:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
Since the original poster saw fit to yank the plug on the thread I am going to revive it.

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=451053

Particularly interested in those who lived in the area or had 1st, 2nd, even 3rd hand knowledge about the case.


Link Posted: 3/31/2006 9:11:33 PM EDT
I have the book, i can ansewr anything out of there,it was written by two cops who where there.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 9:12:09 PM EDT
I too would be interested to know.
Both sides have a story to tell.
Either one story is true and the other is flat out lying, or they divided up the truth between them and infused in tactical-lies when they benefited their position.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 9:14:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DjangosMissingFinger:
I too would be interested to know.
Both sides have a story to tell.
Either one story is true and the other is flat out lying, or they divided up the truth between them and infused in tactical-lies when they benefited their position.



This book gives both sides of the story on most issues, the pic of the body has all the parts though,so i dont but the axe story.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 9:21:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/31/2006 9:23:10 PM EDT by DjangosMissingFinger]

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:

This book gives both sides of the story on most issues, the pic of the body has all the parts though,so i dont but the axe story.



There is an independant movie out called "Death and Taxes" that is supposed to go into great detail about the Gordon Kahl story, including an exhumation of his body that occured sometime in the past?? The movie played at the Taos Film Fest in the 1990's I think.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 9:30:42 PM EDT
I remember someone saying that tear gas started the fire, according to the book the feds poured gas in from the roof,interesting.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 9:55:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:
I have the book, i can ansewr anything out of there,it was written by two cops who where there.



So righteous shoot or execution?

And why did they want him so badly in the first place?
Before the Marshalls were killed.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 6:29:56 AM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 6:49:50 AM EDT
MORAL OF THE STORY-DO NOT QUESTION OR STAND UP TO OUR OVERLORDS.

DO WHAT YOU ARE TOLD AND YOU WILL LIVE A NICE PRODUCTIVE LIFE FOR THEM.

Anyone else read "The Ballad of Carl Drega"?Good read.


Link Posted: 4/1/2006 6:53:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:
I have the book, i can ansewr anything out of there,it was written by two cops who where there.



So righteous shoot or execution?

And why did they want him so badly in the first place?
Before the Marshalls were killed.





Of course it was righteous,it was the government for heavens sake.Everything they do is righteous and for our own good.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 7:00:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By carguym14:

Originally Posted By drjarhead:

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:
I have the book, i can ansewr anything out of there,it was written by two cops who where there.



So righteous shoot or execution?

And why did they want him so badly in the first place?
Before the Marshalls were killed.





Of course it was righteous,it was the government for heavens sake.Everything they do is righteous and for our own good.



[hitlery] "We're going to take some things from you for the common good." [/hitlery]

I guess that also applies to our lives if THEY deem fit.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 7:19:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:
I have the book, i can ansewr anything out of there,it was written by two cops who where there.



So righteous shoot or execution?

And why did they want him so badly in the first place?
Before the Marshalls were killed.



Kahl was wanted for violating probation on his tax evasion charge.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 7:55:10 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 8:08:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Nimrod1193:

Originally Posted By drjarhead:

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:
I have the book, i can ansewr anything out of there,it was written by two cops who where there.



So righteous shoot or execution?

And why did they want him so badly in the first place?
Before the Marshalls were killed.



Kahl was wanted for violating probation on his tax evasion charge.



Yeah, I know.
What is your point?
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 8:09:21 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 8:30:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ikor:
Like the guys running the slave ships, the government sleeps with the fear of hearing "footsteps on the deck" every night. Tax evasion is something that they will never allow to happen if it is being thrown in their faces...too much chance of a tax revolt. They will make an example of anyone who does this, regardless of who is president or which party is in power. They can overlook many things, but the prospect of 50 million taxpayers telling the government to go piss up a rope at tax time is too easy to imagine.






That sums it up nicely.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 8:31:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/1/2006 8:32:03 AM EDT by RikWriter]
Kahl was a crackpot who wanted a confrontation with "the gummint." He got it and murdered two US Marshalls. You kill two federal LE officers, they WILL track you down and they WON'T be too fucking concerned whether you live through it.
I have to at the abject paranoid fantasy bullshit about Delta Force ops CHOPPING OFF HIS FUCKING HANDS AND FEET! Oh my GOD! If the paranoid conspiracy theorists ARE right, then this bullshit story has to come straight from the ".gov" as a piece of anti-conspiracy propoganda to make the conspiracy theorists look like fucking idiots.
ETA: Maybe Eric Haney was there WITH Delta Force...maybe that's why he's speaking out against President Bush now, because he knows it's ALL HIS FAULT!
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 9:29:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RikWriter:
Kahl was a crackpot who wanted a confrontation with "the gummint." He got it and murdered two US Marshalls. You kill two federal LE officers, they WILL track you down and they WON'T be too fucking concerned whether you live through it.
I have to at the abject paranoid fantasy bullshit about Delta Force ops CHOPPING OFF HIS FUCKING HANDS AND FEET! Oh my GOD! If the paranoid conspiracy theorists ARE right, then this bullshit story has to come straight from the ".gov" as a piece of anti-conspiracy propoganda to make the conspiracy theorists look like fucking idiots.
ETA: Maybe Eric Haney was there WITH Delta Force...maybe that's why he's speaking out against President Bush now, because he knows it's ALL HIS FAULT!





Thankfully he is a member of a very small minority that have the balls to stand up for what they beleive in irregardless of the consequences.

I shudder to think what this country would be like if there were more like him.Hopefully,our benevolent masters will root them out and exterminate them no matter where they hide.

He should of kneeled down in front of his hand dug grave and waited for the bullet.

The arrogance.

It's still a free country as long as you do what you are told.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 10:10:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By carguym14:

Originally Posted By RikWriter:
Kahl was a crackpot who wanted a confrontation with "the gummint." He got it and murdered two US Marshalls. You kill two federal LE officers, they WILL track you down and they WON'T be too fucking concerned whether you live through it.
I have to at the abject paranoid fantasy bullshit about Delta Force ops CHOPPING OFF HIS FUCKING HANDS AND FEET! Oh my GOD! If the paranoid conspiracy theorists ARE right, then this bullshit story has to come straight from the ".gov" as a piece of anti-conspiracy propoganda to make the conspiracy theorists look like fucking idiots.
ETA: Maybe Eric Haney was there WITH Delta Force...maybe that's why he's speaking out against President Bush now, because he knows it's ALL HIS FAULT!





Thankfully he is a member of a very small minority that have the balls to stand up for what they beleive in irregardless of the consequences.

I shudder to think what this country would be like if there were more like him.Hopefully,our benevolent masters will root them out and exterminate them no matter where they hide.

He should of kneeled down in front of his hand dug grave and waited for the bullet.

The arrogance.

It's still a free country as long as you do what you are told.



I think we would all do well to remember that our own FF's began their fight over excessive taxation and gov't oppression.

Link Posted: 4/1/2006 10:30:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By carguym14:

Originally Posted By RikWriter:
Kahl was a crackpot who wanted a confrontation with "the gummint." He got it and murdered two US Marshalls. You kill two federal LE officers, they WILL track you down and they WON'T be too fucking concerned whether you live through it.





Thankfully he is a member of a very small minority that have the balls to stand up for what they beleive in irregardless of the consequences.



If you ambush and murder two cops rather than take your chances in court, you're a murdering piece of shit, period. In a representative government with a judiciary branch that hears grievances against the government, the way to stand up for what you believe in "regardless of the consequences" is to let yourself be arrested and fight the battle in court. When they deny you your day in court, then it's time to consider violence. Not before.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 10:40:43 AM EDT
I have no real dog in this fight, just a thought.

What do we make of the Founder's of our country, then?
Were they murderous criminals?
They started a domestic insurrection, killed and brutalized many tax agents.
I suppose they could have tried to have their day in court, but they didn't.
Those who claim that people should "fight it in court" - would you tell the same thing to the Founder's of this nation?
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 10:41:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By carguym14:

Originally Posted By RikWriter:
Kahl was a crackpot who wanted a confrontation with "the gummint." He got it and murdered two US Marshalls. You kill two federal LE officers, they WILL track you down and they WON'T be too fucking concerned whether you live through it.





Thankfully he is a member of a very small minority that have the balls to stand up for what they beleive in irregardless of the consequences.



If you ambush and murder two cops rather than take your chances in court, you're a murdering piece of shit, period. In a representative government with a judiciary branch that hears grievances against the government, the way to stand up for what you believe in "regardless of the consequences" is to let yourself be arrested and fight the battle in court. When they deny you your day in court, then it's time to consider violence. Not before.



So you are either dead or imprisoned and then you are going to fight?
LMAO.

I still wonder about some of the details of this case but your logic in this is ridiculous. There is a time to fight. Right or wrong here, I am uncertain, but it is uncertainlty, not just drinking the Koolaid that the .gov and media pour out for me.

However, once you decide you are going to fight, then you fight. Guy had balls, like I said.
If I believed I had been unjustly imprisoned I would fight also and I sure wouldn't let a bunch of fascist contract killers take me without a fight.

It is MO that there is a very large differrence between local law enforcement and Feds. At least in most cases.

Still waiting for someone to tell me what the deputies on the scene say about the shooting.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 10:49:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
So you are either dead or imprisoned and then you are going to fight?
LMAO.



So you don't think it's possible to fight a conviction for tax evasion? Wow, that's amazing, seeing as how it happens all the time.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 10:50:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
I have no real dog in this fight, just a thought.

What do we make of the Founder's of our country, then?
Were they murderous criminals?
They started a domestic insurrection, killed and brutalized many tax agents.
I suppose they could have tried to have their day in court, but they didn't.
Those who claim that people should "fight it in court" - would you tell the same thing to the Founder's of this nation?



No, they couldn't have had a day in court as they had no representation in the British government. That was the point of the war.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 10:54:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
I have no real dog in this fight, just a thought.

What do we make of the Founder's of our country, then?
Were they murderous criminals?
They started a domestic insurrection, killed and brutalized many tax agents.
I suppose they could have tried to have their day in court, but they didn't.
Those who claim that people should "fight it in court" - would you tell the same thing to the Founder's of this nation?



No, they couldn't have had a day in court as they had no representation in the British government. That was the point of the war.



Parliment felt that the Colonials were represented.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 10:55:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
So you are either dead or imprisoned and then you are going to fight?
LMAO.



So you don't think it's possible to fight a conviction for tax evasion? Wow, that's amazing, seeing as how it happens all the time.



I think that getting a fair trial in the federal system is a rare thing these days.
That's what I think.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 10:58:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
I have no real dog in this fight, just a thought.

What do we make of the Founder's of our country, then?
Were they murderous criminals?
They started a domestic insurrection, killed and brutalized many tax agents.
I suppose they could have tried to have their day in court, but they didn't.
Those who claim that people should "fight it in court" - would you tell the same thing to the Founder's of this nation?



No, they couldn't have had a day in court as they had no representation in the British government. That was the point of the war.



That is a gross oversimplification. There was far more at stake than "taxation without representation."

Wars always have some sort of rallying cry, but they are mutlifaceted. Considering that the taxes the colonists paid were vastly less than we currently do, I suspect it was a minimal consideration fro going to war. One only need read the Declaration of Independence to see that there was quite a list of more serious greivances then taxation without representation.

Bottom line?
There is a time to fight.
There is a time to not be taken and imprisoned.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 10:59:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
So you are either dead or imprisoned and then you are going to fight?
LMAO.



So you don't think it's possible to fight a conviction for tax evasion? Wow, that's amazing, seeing as how it happens all the time.



I think that getting a fair trial in the federal system is a rare thing these days.
That's what I think.



But the fact you think it doesn't make it so.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 11:00:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By drjarhead:

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
So you are either dead or imprisoned and then you are going to fight?
LMAO.



So you don't think it's possible to fight a conviction for tax evasion? Wow, that's amazing, seeing as how it happens all the time.



I think that getting a fair trial in the federal system is a rare thing these days.
That's what I think.



But the fact you think it doesn't make it so.



It sure as hell does if they are looking to take me in.
And it sure did to Gordon Kahl.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 11:01:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
I have no real dog in this fight, just a thought.

What do we make of the Founder's of our country, then?
Were they murderous criminals?
They started a domestic insurrection, killed and brutalized many tax agents.
I suppose they could have tried to have their day in court, but they didn't.
Those who claim that people should "fight it in court" - would you tell the same thing to the Founder's of this nation?



No, they couldn't have had a day in court as they had no representation in the British government. That was the point of the war.



That is a gross oversimplification. There was far more at stake than "taxation without representation."



It was the main bone of contention...it was the main reason for the war and that's not oversimplifying anything.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 11:07:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By drjarhead:

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
I have no real dog in this fight, just a thought.

What do we make of the Founder's of our country, then?
Were they murderous criminals?
They started a domestic insurrection, killed and brutalized many tax agents.
I suppose they could have tried to have their day in court, but they didn't.
Those who claim that people should "fight it in court" - would you tell the same thing to the Founder's of this nation?



No, they couldn't have had a day in court as they had no representation in the British government. That was the point of the war.



That is a gross oversimplification. There was far more at stake than "taxation without representation."



It was the main bone of contention...it was the main reason for the war and that's not oversimplifying anything.



The Declaration of Independence of the Thirteen Colonies
In CONGRESS, July 4, 1776

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. —Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain [George III] is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us, in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:

For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty and perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.


In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by the Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

Link Posted: 4/1/2006 11:43:53 AM EDT
Its amzaing the people that some hold up as heros and idols around here. Kahl was more than just a simple farmer and "tax protester".
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 12:04:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:
Its amzaing the people that some hold up as heros and idols around here. Kahl was more than just a simple farmer and "tax protester".



That is exactly what I am trying to find out.
Believe me, I do have an open mind here though I will admit an anti-govt bias to a degree.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 1:13:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:
Its amzaing the people that some hold up as heros and idols around here. Kahl was more than just a simple farmer and "tax protester".





Care to elaborate?

I also have a little,just a little,anti .gov bias-it comes from all the misinformation that's spewed forth about someone they want to discredit and take down (Randy Weaver for example).

Thanks.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 1:17:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:
Its amzaing the people that some hold up as heros and idols around here. Thomas Jefferson was more than just a simple farmer and "tax protester".



You get the idea.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 1:32:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By carguym14:

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:
Its amzaing the people that some hold up as heros and idols around here. Thomas Jefferson was more than just a simple farmer and "tax protester".



You get the idea.



He gets the idea that you're full of shit, yes. Equating Thomas Jefferson to Gordon Kahl automatically knocks 30 points off your estimated IQ.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 1:45:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By carguym14:

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:
Its amzaing the people that some hold up as heros and idols around here. Thomas Jefferson was more than just a simple farmer and "tax protester".



You get the idea.



He gets the idea that you're full of shit, yes. Equating Thomas Jefferson to Gordon Kahl automatically knocks 30 points off your estimated IQ.



I'm gonna side with RikWriter on this.
Gordon Kahl was no Jefferson.
The man was a genius, a renaisance man of the Enlightenment.
Also, he never fought in the Revolution, he was more of an "ideas" man.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 1:52:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By carguym14:

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:
Its amzaing the people that some hold up as heros and idols around here. Thomas Jefferson was more than just a simple farmer and "tax protester".



You get the idea.



He gets the idea that you're full of shit, yes. Equating Thomas Jefferson to Gordon Kahl automatically knocks 30 points off your estimated IQ.



Perhaps in degree but not in principle. Different time. In todays environment Jefferson would be shot down or imprisoned also. They both fought the same idea IMO. I am waiting for some details of how it all went down however.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 1:53:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By carguym14:

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:
Its amzaing the people that some hold up as heros and idols around here. Thomas Jefferson was more than just a simple farmer and "tax protester".



You get the idea.



He gets the idea that you're full of shit, yes. Equating Thomas Jefferson to Gordon Kahl automatically knocks 30 points off your estimated IQ.



Perhaps in degree but not in principle. Different time. In todays environment Jefferson would be shot down or imprisoned also. They both fought the same idea IMO. I am waiting for some details of how it all went down however.



No, in today's environment, Jefferson would affect change peacefully through the political process, since such avenues are still available to him. He, you see, although very idealistic, was also an incredibly intelligent man. That's where he and Kahl really split ways.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 2:05:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By drjarhead:

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By carguym14:

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:
Its amzaing the people that some hold up as heros and idols around here. Thomas Jefferson was more than just a simple farmer and "tax protester".



You get the idea.



He gets the idea that you're full of shit, yes. Equating Thomas Jefferson to Gordon Kahl automatically knocks 30 points off your estimated IQ.



Perhaps in degree but not in principle. Different time. In todays environment Jefferson would be shot down or imprisoned also. They both fought the same idea IMO. I am waiting for some details of how it all went down however.



No, in today's environment, Jefferson would affect change peacefully through the political process, since such avenues are still available to him. He, you see, although very idealistic, was also an incredibly intelligent man. That's where he and Kahl really split ways.



Valid point for sure. Jefferson was a true intellect.

I would also remember two facts though:

First, the FFs did try to exact change through the political process of the day and when it failed they fought.

Second, Jefferson survived. We mostly hear always of those who survive, not just the Revolutionary War but every other war and struggle.

For each who survived there were inummerable ones who did not, who made the ultimate sacrifice for freedom. So far no one has convinced me that Kahl was otherwise. Of course, nor have I been convinced of the opposite.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 5:15:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By carguym14:

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:
Its amzaing the people that some hold up as heros and idols around here. Thomas Jefferson was more than just a simple farmer and "tax protester".



You get the idea.



He gets the idea that you're full of shit, yes. Equating Thomas Jefferson to Gordon Kahl automatically knocks 30 points off your estimated IQ.



Perhaps in degree but not in principle. Different time. In todays environment Jefferson would be shot down or imprisoned also. They both fought the same idea IMO. I am waiting for some details of how it all went down however.





That's where I was going with that comment.I could have used any of the signers to illustrate the point.

How many have died for what they beleive in?What is the current tax rate we pay?Overall?30%?40%?The Founding Fathers have to be rolling in their graves at how far we have "progressed".

I do not classify Kuhl as a hero,but I have a great deal of respect for him standing up for what he beleived in-whether it was "mainstream" or not.

What I know of him comes from "The Ballad of Carl Drega".
I would like to know more,though.I am a little skeptical of what the .gov will say-Someone must know someone that knew him.(As an aside,Randy Weaver was from south of me here in Iowa-I have talked to people that knew him and I have come to my own conclusions).
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 5:50:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
First, the FFs did try to exact change through the political process of the day and when it failed they fought.



And that's the right order to go about seeking change. Right now, we still have recourse. It's hard and it's usually an uphill battle, but it's possible. If that changes, the right way to seek change may turn into something else.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 6:00:26 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 6:43:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/1/2006 7:51:14 PM EDT by WayneG]
James Coates wrote a fascinating book called "Armed And Dangerous" back in 1987. In it is a very interesting chapter about Kahl and the Posse Comitatus. Kahl, an adherent to Identitiy Christianity, was a well to do farmer who lost his fortune when wheat prices tanked, then blamed his misfortunes on an "international Jewish conspiracy" and stopped paying taxes. Frankly it appears he was nothing more than a rotten businessman who refused to accept blame for his poor decisions, and then ended up a cop killer. He seems to have become the poster boy for the tinfoil hat crowd.

"Armed And Dangerous" James Coates 1987, Collins Publishers
E839.5.C59 1987 973.9 87.9278

Coates notes the following articles in the "Notes" appendix of his book:

"There Was a Man: The Sage Of Gordon Kahl" Capstan Turner and A. J. Lowery (Sozo Publishing Co, Nashville, Tenn. 1985) (Kahl's family collaborated with the two authors, both tax protest movement writers)

"Slain Tax Protester's Family Bears The Pain Of His Bittersweet Legacy", Robert Unger, Kansas City Times, Sept. 13 1985.
"Death Kept Its Appointment In A Dakota Town", Unger, Kansas City Times, March 5 1983.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 7:27:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By carguym14:

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:
Its amzaing the people that some hold up as heros and idols around here. Kahl was more than just a simple farmer and "tax protester".





Care to elaborate?

I also have a little,just a little,anti .gov bias-it comes from all the misinformation that's spewed forth about someone they want to discredit and take down (Randy Weaver for example).

Thanks.



Someone already beat me to it; but I was refering to his ties to Posse Comitatus and his belief that everything that had occured to him was due to the "evil Jews".

An example:


'A Struggle to the Death'
Not all tax protesters were religious bigots, but hatred of Jews has been a dominant theme in the tax strike movement since its inception. This point was driven home by Gordon Wendell Kahl, the 63-year-old Posse Comitatus activist and tax protester who shot and killed two federal marshals, also wounding two other lawmen, outside Medina, N.D., in February 1983.

Wanted for violating probation in a 1977 federal income tax case, Kahl ý and two others, including his son ý responded with gunfire when the marshals tried to arrest him. Kahl described his version of events in a 16-page handwritten letter he wrote the night of the shooting and mailed several weeks later.

In it, he announced that it was time to wage war against the Jews.

"We are engaged in a struggle to the death between the people of the Kingdom of God, and the Kingdom of Satan," Kahl wrote. "We are a conquered and occupied nation; conquered and occupied by the Jews, and their hundreds or maybe thousands of front organizations doing their un-Godly work. They have two objectives in their goal of ruling the world. Destroy Christianity and the White race. Neither can be accomplished by itself, they stand or fall together."



If you want to see exactly what kind of organization Posse Comitatus truely is, take a look at their website. www.www.posse-comitatus.org (Keep the link cold please). If you think this guy was on par with others such as Jefferson I truely question your sanity.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 7:43:28 PM EDT
My second hand knowledge of Gordon Kahl.

I worked with a guy that lived and worked in the same area as Gordon. He would see Gordon at the grain elevator and John Deere dealer in Carrington all the time, without mini-14 in hand. Gordon was always preaching his anti-government views to whoever would listen. The guy I worked with thought it was unusual that they would try to arrest Gordon after a political meeting when he was known to be armed.

Kahls arrest was not very well thought out.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 7:43:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

No, in today's environment, Jefferson would affect change peacefully through the political process, since such avenues are still available to him. He, you see, although very idealistic, was also an incredibly intelligent man. That's where he and Kahl really split ways.



I’ll take “Laughably Ignorant Supposition” for $500, Alex.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 7:47:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/1/2006 7:49:09 PM EDT by DjangosMissingFinger]

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:

If you want to see exactly what kind of organization Posse Comitatus truely is, take a look at their website. www.www.posse-comitatus.org (Keep the link cold please). If you think this guy was on par with others such as Jefferson I truely question your sanity.



Gordon Kahl was definitely far, far from being a Thomas Jefferson. He was an everyman with a big chip on his shoulder about something he perceived to be wrong. We all agree he went about things the wrong way.

With that said, some of the founders had some pretty unflattering things to say about a number of different races, creeds and religions.

In our present era where everything is tempered by PC, we must pretend certain patterns don't exist lest we be subject to cries of racism, anti-semitism, sexism, bigotry, etc.
In reality, these truisms do exist and some people aren't afraid to say it.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 7:49:48 PM EDT
People arent afraid to blame their life choices on the underhandiness of the ZOG conspiracy against all WASPs...... you are right about that.
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Top Top