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Posted: 3/30/2006 9:00:01 AM EDT
What happens when you arrest a convicted felon and he has a firearm? I’ve heard stories about how the firearms passion charge is usually dropped and they are back on the streets. How true is this? If this is the case why they hell don’t we enforce the laws we have instead of writing new ones? I say if a felon is got with a 22 rifle throw him back in jail, charge him with passion of a firearm and planning a crime. If he is charged with another crime add the firearm time to the additional time in jail.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:00:56 AM EDT
it's a matter of how much space there is on your frying pan for fish.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:03:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By markmars:
What happens when you arrest a convicted felon and he has a firearm? I’ve heard stories about how the firearms passion charge is usually dropped and they are back on the streets. How true is this? If this is the case why they hell don’t we enforce the laws we have instead of writing new ones? I say if a felon is got with a 22 rifle throw him back in jail, charge him with passion of a firearm and planning a crime. If he is charged with another crime add the firearm time to the additional time in jail.



Ahem that would be *possession of a firearm by a felon*

This question would probably be better answered in the Brothers of the Shield..
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:04:53 AM EDT
Prepare yourself. The "felons should be allowed gun ownership" crowd is about to descend on you.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:05:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:05:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:
Prepare yourself. The "felons should be allowed gun ownership" crowd is about to descend on you.



i thought shoot-n-scoot was in jail...
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:17:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Ponyboy:
How about we just let felons own firearms? If you commit a crime and go to jail, when you get out your debt to society is paid correct? They should get their guns back. If they are so terrible that we can't trust them with weapons that they will have access to anyway then why are they getting out of jail?



No, their debt to society is doing the time, the fine and giving up their guns.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:20:29 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:24:00 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:24:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tvc184:

Originally Posted By Ponyboy:
How about we just let felons own firearms? If you commit a crime and go to jail, when you get out your debt to society is paid correct? They should get their guns back. If they are so terrible that we can't trust them with weapons that they will have access to anyway then why are they getting out of jail?



No, their debt to society is doing the time, the fine and giving up their guns.



District Attornoys ( Yeah I fucking spelled it wrong ) don't like to be told what to do. They don't like minimum manditory sentences - so they plea bargin away those charges in order to say 'fuck you' to people that want them to impose a manditory minimum sentence. Last I heard felon in possesion of a firearm was plea bargined away 60% of the time in the PRK. Aren't those the people that shouldn't have firearms?
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:25:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Ponyboy:

Originally Posted By tvc184:

Originally Posted By Ponyboy:
How about we just let felons own firearms? If you commit a crime and go to jail, when you get out your debt to society is paid correct? They should get their guns back. If they are so terrible that we can't trust them with weapons that they will have access to anyway then why are they getting out of jail?



No, their debt to society is doing the time, the fine and giving up their guns.




And don't forget, their right to vote.




I didn't, just responding to your question about guns.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:27:51 AM EDT
I thought Owning Guns was a God given right? A natural Right

Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:27:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By shotar:
What happens to them is entirely out of the hands of the law enforcement officers involved. It is up to the prosecutors, juries and judges.



I realize that, but most LEO knows what happens to there case when it goes to court. I would still like to know are firearm violations dropped and why do you think that is so? I realize are prisons are over crowded. But the courts would send most legal gun owners to jail on a weapons violation. For example being on school property (like a parking lot) with a firearm.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:31:30 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:32:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Partisan:
District Attornoys ( Yeah I fucking spelled it wrong ) don't like to be told what to do. They don't like minimum manditory sentences - so they plea bargin away those charges in order to say 'fuck you' to people that want them to impose a manditory minimum sentence. Last I heard felon in possesion of a firearm was plea bargined away 60% of the time in the PRK. Aren't those the people that shouldn't have firearms?



It is true that DA's plea most of their cases, sometimes to a lesser offense. I think it is so they can clear their docket/case load not an issue of ego over the law. Most Assistant DA's that I have worked with love to get tough sentences on crimes but since there is no way to have a jury trial on every case, they will offer a reduced sentence or lower criminal charge. That is in all cases, not just firearms cases. To the contrary, in my county the firearms charge will likely have a less chance of a plea. I think our DA pleas at least as many cases as in PRK and we don't have mandatory sentences.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:33:31 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:35:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By markmars:

Originally Posted By shotar:
What happens to them is entirely out of the hands of the law enforcement officers involved. It is up to the prosecutors, juries and judges.



I realize that, but most LEO knows what happens to there case when it goes to court. I would still like to know are firearm violations dropped and why do you think that is so? I realize are prisons are over crowded. But the courts would send most legal gun owners to jail on a weapons violation. For example being on school property (like a parking lot) with a firearm.



Depending on the number of charges and severity of charges one person faces, some of the lessers are generally used to plea bargain with. Better to get a plea than dragging every single case to trial.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:50:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 9:53:45 AM EDT by Johninaustin]
You have to be aware of two dirty little words in the sentencing/plea bargain game.

"Consecutive" and "Concurrent"

What police (and most citizens) want is "consecutive". In other words, if a bad guy is sentenced to 5 years for Robbery, five years on a Firearms charge, and 5 years on a Aggravated Assault charge, he would serve 15 years.

What most judges and prosecutors (and defense attorneys) go for is "concurrent". that is, three five year sentences served together for a total of 5 years.

Add to that such things as credit for good time etc, and those 15 years are actually closer to 6 months incarceration and 6 months close supervision.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 11:27:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By USGI_45:
I thought Owning Guns was a God given right? A natural Right




Negative, think again.

T­hat is, unless you are being sarcastic.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 11:31:50 AM EDT
In my county you almost have to have drawn blood to even spend the night in jail. They just don't have any room. If a guy gets in the least dangerous guy gets out.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 12:12:16 PM EDT
Somewhat along these lines, Cipher me this Jethro,

If I have a firearm, and a stranger buddies up at the range and I allow him to shoot my gun, in my presence, AND he's a convicted felon, is he in violation, and/or am I, for providing him with a firearm?

If you believe that would be against the law, then how would a gunshop owner know or prevent ex cons from coming into the shop and finger fucking all the merchandise? We all know they don't screen every potential gun buyer. Especially at gun shows.

Would the situation be any different for NFA weapons?
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 6:37:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By USGI_45:
I thought Owning Guns was a God given right? A natural Right




Which you forfeit when you decide to commit felonies. If you can't do the time (or can't stand the idea of not owning guns or voting) don't to the time. Besides any felon worth his salt oughta be able to come up with guns anyway.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 6:42:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By shotar:

Originally Posted By markmars:

Originally Posted By shotar:
What happens to them is entirely out of the hands of the law enforcement officers involved. It is up to the prosecutors, juries and judges.



I realize that, but most LEO knows what happens to there case when it goes to court. I would still like to know are firearm violations dropped and why do you think that is so? I realize are prisons are over crowded. But the courts would send most legal gun owners to jail on a weapons violation. For example being on school property (like a parking lot) with a firearm.



Thats like asking if a chick is gives good head. Some do, some don't and some only do sometimes and under some circumstances. It is truly an individual thing that has many variables and no specific set answer that will apply in any particular number of cases.



I often do not agree with you, but you seem to be level headed and insightful... It helps when you give layperson situations like the above referenced.


You meet a lot of people in your line of work... which do?

Link Posted: 3/30/2006 6:42:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By draver:
Somewhat along these lines, Cipher me this Jethro,

If I have a firearm, and a stranger buddies up at the range and I allow him to shoot my gun, in my presence, AND he's a convicted felon, is he in violation, and/or am I, for providing him with a firearm? Depends on the state you are in for the state violations, not sure about Federal law.

If you believe that would be against the law, then how would a gunshop owner know or prevent ex cons from coming into the shop and finger fucking all the merchandise? We all know they don't screen every potential gun buyer. Especially at gun shows. Letting a customer or potential customer finger fuck is not providing, (unless he turns and runs with it). giving it to him and letting him fire it may very well be Again this is a state law issue. I've never rented at a range, so I don't know what the rental agareement says. I've seen Japanese often shooting at the ranges around my place.

Would the situation be any different for NFA weapons?

Link Posted: 3/30/2006 6:44:55 PM EDT
Passion?
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 6:58:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PaDanby:

Originally Posted By USGI_45:
I thought Owning Guns was a God given right? A natural Right




Which you forfeit when you decide to commit felonies. If you can't do the time (or can't stand the idea of not owning guns or voting) don't to the time. Besides any felon worth his salt oughta be able to come up with guns anyway.



The Lord giveth, PaDanby taketh away.

Link Posted: 3/30/2006 7:01:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By draver:
Somewhat along these lines, Cipher me this Jethro,

If I have a firearm, and a stranger buddies up at the range and I allow him to shoot my gun, in my presence, AND he's a convicted felon, is he in violation, and/or am I, for providing him with a firearm?

If you believe that would be against the law, then how would a gunshop owner know or prevent ex cons from coming into the shop and finger fucking all the merchandise? We all know they don't screen every potential gun buyer. Especially at gun shows.

Would the situation be any different for NFA weapons?



+1 I'm curious about this too
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 6:18:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zack3g:
Originally Posted By draver:
Somewhat along these lines, Cipher me this Jethro,

If I have a firearm, and a stranger buddies up at the range and I allow him to shoot my gun, in my presence, AND he's a convicted felon, is he in violation, and/or am I, for providing him with a firearm?

If you believe that would be against the law, then how would a gunshop owner know or prevent ex cons from coming into the shop and finger fucking all the merchandise? We all know they don't screen every potential gun buyer. Especially at gun shows.

Would the situation be any different for NFA weapons?



I'd like to believe that if I was present that I still have what's called "Constructive Possession" of my firearm. I'd hate to be out at the range and hand off a gun to a guy the Feds or Local PD was interested in, and have them use the situation for a twist on the bad guy. I mention this because all too frequently we read posts on how some of us on this board will allow others to test fire their guns. I've done it, and maybe need to be a little more careful.

In response to one other post in this matter, I don't think a felon has to fire a weapon to be guilty of possession. I guess it would be what the local courts consider possession.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 6:27:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tvc184:

Originally Posted By Ponyboy:
How about we just let felons own firearms? If you commit a crime and go to jail, when you get out your debt to society is paid correct? They should get their guns back. If they are so terrible that we can't trust them with weapons that they will have access to anyway then why are they getting out of jail?



No, their debt to society is doing the time, the fine and giving up their guns.



Forever? Your fucking delusional. That is not the intent of the law whatsoever. It is meant that that person is a risk.. It is not punitive in anyway, don't try to blow that smoke in this pipe buddy.. We could extend that fucked up assertation to infringement of every item in the BoR.. More like a coverup for a fucked up and ineffective CJ system.. "We really cant rehabilitate with the resources we have so we'll leave them pout under certain restrictions to make society safe.. "

You fucking disgust me with that reasoning..
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 8:26:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Valkyrie:

Originally Posted By tvc184:

Originally Posted By Ponyboy:
How about we just let felons own firearms? If you commit a crime and go to jail, when you get out your debt to society is paid correct? They should get their guns back. If they are so terrible that we can't trust them with weapons that they will have access to anyway then why are they getting out of jail?



No, their debt to society is doing the time, the fine and giving up their guns.



Forever? Your fucking delusional. That is not the intent of the law whatsoever. It is meant that that person is a risk.. It is not punitive in anyway, don't try to blow that smoke in this pipe buddy.. We could extend that fucked up assertation to infringement of every item in the BoR.. More like a coverup for a fucked up and ineffective CJ system.. "We really cant rehabilitate with the resources we have so we'll leave them pout under certain restrictions to make society safe.. "

You fucking disgust me with that reasoning..



It not my reasoning, it what the law says. Sorry if you can't accept or deal with that fact. You can have any political opinion you want but don't try taking it to court, you will lose. Commit a felony, lose your right to a firearm for life, therein lies your debt to society.
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