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Posted: 3/29/2006 11:10:39 PM EDT
About 10 years ago Bill Clinton watched as his party lost control of the House and Senate as a result of a particularly bad law that he supported and signed.

Will history repeat itself?

Better get ready for some new gun bans if the Dems get control again.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 11:11:25 PM EDT
Hold on while I piss my pants.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 11:12:13 PM EDT
I hope so, a swift death is prefered to a slow one, the sooner begun the sooner done.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 11:13:36 PM EDT
So long good bye! Sorry fucks!

Traitorous cocksuckers!!
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 11:21:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2006 11:22:22 PM EDT by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
About 10 years ago Bill Clinton watched as his party lost control of the House and Senate as a result of a particularly bad law that he supported and signed.

Will history repeat itself?

Better get ready for some new gun bans if the Dems get control again.



No.

Enough of the country doesn't care, or cares more about other issues....

I, for one, will still vote GOP because as much as I dislike illegal immigration, this is MINOR compared to other issues (Taxes, judicial & federal appointments, my paycheck & equipment, and the fact that I don't want to see the Army ordered to cut & run from Iraq (or being placed under UN supervision, or rules of engagement that hogtie every US soldier outside our borders) by some chickenshit california libtard)....

We will survive the goddamn mexicans just like we survived the Italians, Irish, and every other nationality that decided to sneak in WOP... I don't like it, but there are more important things to worry about. And since no one is willing to do what is needed - punish american companies & citizens for providing jobs to illegals - I could care less - I don't want to see money wasted on a fence, troops, mines, or any other such stupidity....
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 11:29:13 PM EDT
Actually, I believe that our senators and reps are playing the "balancing game."
"Well' if I'm tough on immigration, I lose the Hispanic vote, but if I'm not - I might lose some Conservative vote.." "Which way should I turn?"

I've never been much for term limits (except Teddy), but if TL would encourage elected officials to grow a pair.. might be worth considering..
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 11:34:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2006 11:37:46 PM EDT by Chairborne]

Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
About 10 years ago Bill Clinton watched as his party lost control of the House and Senate as a result of a particularly bad law that he supported and signed.

Will history repeat itself?

Better get ready for some new gun bans if the Dems get control again.



No.

Enough of the country doesn't care, or cares more about other issues....

I, for one, will still vote GOP because as much as I dislike illegal immigration, this is MINOR compared to other issues (Taxes, judicial & federal appointments, my paycheck & equipment, and the fact that I don't want to see the Army ordered to cut & run from Iraq (or being placed under UN supervision, or rules of engagement that hogtie every US soldier outside our borders) by some chickenshit california libtard)....

We will survive the goddamn mexicans just like we survived the Italians, Irish, and every other nationality that decided to sneak in WOP... I don't like it, but there are more important things to worry about. And since no one is willing to do what is needed - punish american companies & citizens for providing jobs to illegals - I could care less - I don't want to see money wasted on a fence, troops, mines, or any other such stupidity....



You are drawing false comparisons. The Italians, Irish, Germans, Poles, etc. that immigrated here did so at great personal risk and expense, by ship. The Mexican illegals walk over a simple porous border. That leads me to believe that those that worked hard to save the money for the passage to a better life are exactly the types of immigrants this country needs, not some lazy ass trying to drop an "anchor baby". I fully support legal immigration, we have had the world's best and brightest coming here for two hundred years, and it shows. Look at the SE Asian immigrant populations compared to the illegals. Who is harder working, more studious and diciplined, and contributes more to our country?


ETA: The fence HAS to be built, to give all people worldwide an equal shot at US citizenship, why should brilliant young Indians be denied while a Mexican/South American with an IQ of 60 can walk here? Level the playing field, and stop the influx of parasites.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 12:12:24 AM EDT
Wait until the Dummy craps start yelling how the Fence will Fuk-up the enviorment !!!!
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 12:14:56 AM EDT
You break it, you "buy it"

Politically speaking.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 12:24:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 12:34:28 AM EDT by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By Chairborne:
I fully support legal immigration, we have had the world's best and brightest coming here for two hundred years, and it shows. Look at the SE Asian immigrant populations compared to the illegals. Who is harder working, more studious and diciplined, and contributes more to our country?


ETA: The fence HAS to be built, to give all people worldwide an equal shot at US citizenship, why should brilliant young Indians be denied while a Mexican/South American with an IQ of 60 can walk here? Level the playing field, and stop the influx of parasites.



1) Fence won't work - they will get around it... Too much money in smuggling illegals for it to stop... You have to cut off the money supply to stem the tide....

2) Up untill the mid 1900s we were taking in the rest of the world's refuse, not their best & brightest... However, thanks to the way America is, we took everybody the rest of the world didn't want, and turned around to become more powerful than any of the nations who populated us....

3) I support immigration control, I do not support wasting money on fencing/tactical obstacles/troops on border guard (think about it - do we want to introduce mexican style corruption into the US military, vis-a-vis putting 18yo E-1s fresh out of Ft Jackson, who joined for a signing bonus or to 'see the world' (they ain;'t gonna put Rangers, 82nd, or 4th ID on goddamn border guard... It would be some goofball unit like 1-507 Maint) in direct daily contact with the mexican underworld? I know plenty who'd do their job, but I've also known plenty whou would take every bribe offered so long as they could get away with it... So either the job would become a crat-factor nighmare as the higher-ups try to lock down corruption (kind of like what happened in Korea after FoxNews did their prostitution & human trafficking report) or corruption would run rampant...
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 12:33:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 12:34:58 AM EDT by Chairborne]

Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By Chairborne:
I fully support legal immigration, we have had the world's best and brightest coming here for two hundred years, and it shows. Look at the SE Asian immigrant populations compared to the illegals. Who is harder working, more studious and diciplined, and contributes more to our country?


ETA: The fence HAS to be built, to give all people worldwide an equal shot at US citizenship, why should brilliant young Indians be denied while a Mexican/South American with an IQ of 60 can walk here? Level the playing field, and stop the influx of parasites.



1) Fence won't work - they will get around it... Too much money in smuggling illegals for it to stop... You have to cut off the money supply to stem the tide....

2) Up untill the mid 1900s we were taking in the rest of the world's refuse, not their best & brightest... However, thanks to the way America is, we took everybody the rest of the world didn't want, and turned around to become more powerful than any of the nations who populated us....



1. Build the fence, the cost is really minimal. All NG training leading up to deployments to the ME should take place along the CA/TX/AZ/NM borders. The states mentioned should have their NG combat units drilling along the border for their annual drill, and as many monthly drill weekends as possible. The Border Patrol should be enlarged and equipped with lots of UAVs, sensors, and cameras. It WILL work, given the attention it deserves. We don't need the Berlin Wall here, just a couple thousand miles (actually about 700) of good double layer chain link/concertina wire with sensors all over it. You can try to attack illegal labor from the demand side, it will get you where the "war on drugs" has.

2. They may have left their native lands because they were unwanted, but somebody paid a year's wages to get them here. The bottom line is ALL of the world's citizens should be afforded equal opportunity to come here, to the greatest nation on earth.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 12:34:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 12:36:52 AM EDT by AROptics]
Yo Dave_A, How is that Demilitarized Zone working? Must be like O'Hare at Thanksgiving with all those starving North Koreans streaming into South Korea.

[Thanks for your service].
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 12:48:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 12:54:24 AM EDT by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By AROptics:
Yo Dave, How is that Demilitarized Zone working? Must be like O'Hare at Thanksgiving with all those starving North Koreans streaming into South Korea.

[Thanks for your service].



You're welcome...

However, it's a totally different ballgame... The DMZ works because it's aimed at the DPRK military, who are at present under orders to stay on their side of the border (save for spies & small teams, who most certainly DO get through). If those orders changed, the DMZ would suddenly stop working, and we'd have SHTF in the far east... The norks have had years to dig tunnels (we've found a few over the years), sight in artillery, and generally prepare to roll right on across into 2ID's gunsights (lopsided fight -> 1 mixed-infantry division vs a whole army -> We fight a delaying action & the USAF suddenly gets some real work, while forces from around the world come to reinforce, ala REFORGER in Europe back during the Cold War....)

The starving civillians stay north not because of the DMZ & the mines, but because of how Kim Jong Il'
s regime handles defectors... In the S Korean mindset, reunification is an eventual goal - some of them have half a generation of family members up north, and the other half down south - and they would love a more relaxed border situation - the war (it's never officially been ended, just put on indefinite hold) just gets in the way...

If we were having problems with division size forces of regular Mexican military crossing the border, a DMZ set up would work. It will NOT work on civillians & criminals crossing in small parties, especially criminals armed with fat stacks of cash... If you think the US Army is above that kind of corruption, remember Abu Garib -most Soldiers have a sense of honor, but all it takes to spoil the 'border fence' plan is a few rotten apple guards (say one company) going 'on the take', or some more inventive smugglers (resorting to boats, tunnels, etc)...
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 1:40:33 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 2:27:46 AM EDT
I think enough Republican voters will wake up and realize "hey, I could have gotten the same screwing by voting Dem -- at least they are honest about wanting to bring socialism to America." And thus, they will teach the Republicans a well-needed lesson by staying home or voting Dem.

I personally will hit every Democrat button in the voting machine this November if the House, Senate, and President pass any legislation that looks in any way like amnesty. Given our weak-spined RINOs, we can't do any worse with Dems in the govt.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 2:29:32 AM EDT
Better yet, will it cost us our country?
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 3:19:29 AM EDT
All the poll #'s I've seen recently show a simple majority of Americans are opposed to illegal immigration. If you (as a politician) are stupid enough to oppose your constituents you deserve to be shown the door. Forgetting who you work for is never a good idea.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 5:07:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 5:14:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 5:31:55 AM EDT by Dance]

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
About 10 years ago Bill Clinton watched as his party lost control of the House and Senate as a result of a particularly bad law that he supported and signed.

Will history repeat itself?

Better get ready for some new gun bans if the Dems get control again.



History will repeat itself. If any amnesty/guest worker program gets through it is directly because of the Republicans as they control the House, Senate, and Presidency.

When it does go through your vote becomes worthless, as the amnesty programs allow the illegal aliens to bring their families from Mexico with them to all become "Americans". Consider that 12-36 million illegal aliens are here, so with their families coming in also figure at least roughly 50-70 million people will be given American Citizenship. 30-40 million will vote as socialists from this group. Your vote as a supporter of the Constitution/BOR becomes worthless.

Link Posted: 3/30/2006 5:30:43 AM EDT
You mean a law like in 86 that never gets enforced?

If the law is tough and secures the border first and foremost it may bolster Republicans. If it's amnesty lite they will not benefit but I couldn't say how much it will cost them. Depends on how successful the media is in generating hate. Without the media's support the Democrats would be nearly invisible based on the quality of their rhetoric and proposals.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 5:58:44 AM EDT
Illegal aliens are not allowed to vote by law, but that has not stopped the Democrat Registrar of Voters in many California counties. They knowingly send voter registration to tens of thousands of illegals with the knowledge that illegals vote Democrat 99.99% of the time. Its one of the ways Democrats stay in power in California.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:28:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dave_A:

We will survive the goddamn mexicans just like we survived the Italians, Irish, and every other nationality that decided to sneak in WOP... I don't like it, but there are more important things to worry about. And since no one is willing to do what is needed - punish american companies & citizens for providing jobs to illegals - I could care less - I don't want to see money wasted on a fence, troops, mines, or any other such stupidity....



The numbers aren't even close to comparable.

In addition those Italians, Irish, etc. weren't operating under the delusion of reclaiming a "lost" homeland. Most DID actually come here to make a better life for themselves as Americans.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:32:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dance:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
About 10 years ago Bill Clinton watched as his party lost control of the House and Senate as a result of a particularly bad law that he supported and signed.

Will history repeat itself?

Better get ready for some new gun bans if the Dems get control again.



History will repeat itself. If any amnesty/guest worker program gets through it is directly because of the Republicans as they control the House, Senate, and Presidency.

When it does go through your vote becomes worthless, as the amnesty programs allow the illegal aliens to bring their families from Mexico with them to all become "Americans". Consider that 12-36 million illegal aliens are here, so with their families coming in also figure at least roughly 50-70 million people will be given American Citizenship. 30-40 million will vote as socialists from this group. Your vote as a supporter of the Constitution/BOR becomes worthless.




Sadly that is how I see it.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:40:29 AM EDT
Yes it will and they deserve to lose both as well.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:53:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 10:07:43 AM EDT by sovereign]

Originally Posted By twl:
There is no more "Republican Party" as it was once upon a time.

There is now 2 factions of the Democratic Party.
One is called "Republican", and is run by Neo-Cons, which are nothing more than Democrats in disguise, who are willing to support the Middle-East war.
The other is called "Democrat" which are Democrats which don't support the Middle-East War.

They are both socialist dominated groups.
Both are big-spending, big government, big brother oriented parties, which are completely unresponsive to the Americans which they no longer even try to represent.
This isn't a surprise, since they are both owned and operated by the same people with the same overall goals.
Goals which don't include the betterment of the American people.
All they want is money, power, more money and more power.
And their intention is to take all they can - - - from us, the people.

Pull whatever major party lever you want to at the voting booth.
You'll be getting a Democrat in both cases, but with different Party names only.




The truth shall set you free. At least from the belief that your vote will make a damned bit of difference. "America, Destroyed by Design." The only benefit of having the "Republicans" in power for the past few years, as I see it, is being able to stock up on mags. And even this benefit is not by any PRINCIPAL based actions of their own.

Link Posted: 4/3/2006 10:52:30 AM EDT
Georgia still allows write-in voting. It would really get their attention if certain congress critters were replaced by other repubs that weren't even on the ballot.

rj
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 11:10:34 AM EDT
I think the Repubs are in for a beating, but not so much over immigration reform. The Dems haven't articulated a position. As usual they don't have a policy except to say that the Repubs are WRONG!
The Repubs will get trounced because the fence sitters (swing voters) cannot stand any of their policies any longer. The last two elections were close and the swing voters are going to bolt to the Dems in the next election.
Ironically, I think that there are a lot of immigrants of hispanic origin who agree that the borders need to be tightened up. When polled, Americans (legal) of hispanic origin are overwhelmingly in favor of ending illegal immigration.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 12:21:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By AROptics:
Yo Dave, How is that Demilitarized Zone working? Must be like O'Hare at Thanksgiving with all those starving North Koreans streaming into South Korea.

[Thanks for your service].


You're welcome...

<snip>

The starving civillians stay north not because of the DMZ & the mines, but because of how Kim Jong Il's regime handles defectors... In the S Korean mindset, reunification is an eventual goal - some of them have half a generation of family members up north, and the other half down south - and they would love a more relaxed border situation - the war (it's never officially been ended, just put on indefinite hold) just gets in the way...

<snip>


Bingo.

If we were to get the MexiGov to go all Kim Jong Il on border jumpers (instead of encouraging and in some cases equipping them*), illegal crossings would go way down. How to get Fox and Co. to do that? Hit 'em where it hurts: in the wallet.

Every border jumper picked up costs them 'x' dollars. Send 'em a bill every month or quarter. If it's not paid in full in 90 days, it comes out of their federal aid. If they go off of federal welfare, it comes from trade (export restrictions, tariffs, the whole 9). NAFTA? I don't remember no stinkin' NAFTA........
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 12:25:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rjay:
Georgia still allows write-in voting. It would really get their attention if certain congress critters were replaced by other repubs that weren't even on the ballot.

rj


So what are you doing for the next 2-6 years?
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 12:26:53 PM EDT
I haven't seen this brought up. The GOP has seen a recent influx of black and latinos to their party. The dems stand a good chance of losing a lot of the black votes that they take for granted. There's not of love lost between blacks and illegals who are now the largest minority. In fact in Texas, Anglos are in the minority.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 12:38:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rakky:
Better yet, will it cost us our country?



No, it will only cost us New Mexico, California, Arizona, and half of Texas.

The rest will fall apart a little later, unless an American Putin comes to power.
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