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Posted: 3/28/2006 11:15:45 AM EDT
Another testament to the magnitude of what happened there

news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060328/ap_on_re_us/attacks_remains

NEW YORK - Construction workers cleaning toxic waste from a vacant skyscraper near the World Trade Center site have found more bone fragments and human remains, officials said Tuesday.


The city medical examiner's office plans to extract DNA from the latest remains to be recovered from the former Deutsche Bank building and try to match it against a database of the 2,749 people killed at the trade center on Sept. 11, 2001, said Ellen Borakove, spokeswoman for the city medical examiner's office.

Fire Department crews had inspected the building in the months following the attacks, but construction workers clearing gravel off the rooftop found 10 bone fragments there last fall.

The new remains were found in recent weeks by crews doing a more thorough cleaning before construction workers begin dismantling the building in June, said John Gallagher, spokesman for the Lower Manhattan Development Corp.

Some victims' family members said forensic experts should search the 41-story building again.

"I'm not trying to malign the construction workers, but this is not what they're trained to do," said Diane Horning, whose son was killed at the trade center and has filed suit to remove trade center debris from a landfill where victims' remains were found.

More than 40 percent of the victims at the trade center have not been identified. The medical examiner's office is storing more than 9,000 unidentified remains and hope that more sophisticated DNA technology can allow for identifications in the future.

Borakove said that two human remains were found Jan. 27 on the 38th floor of the building. She could not say what the remains were or how big they were. Last Friday, workers found two bone fragments on the roof, she said.

"They are definitely human," Borakove said.

The Deutsche Bank building has been vacant since the terrorist attacks, when part of the south tower tore a gash in the building. Deconstruction of the building, which is contaminated with asbestos, lead and trade center dust, began in September.

Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:18:06 AM EDT
Damn
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:19:24 AM EDT
40% unidentified????? WTF?
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:20:05 AM EDT
i bet this kinda thing will be happening for years, if not decades
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:20:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2006 11:21:25 AM EDT by twonami]
I would have thought that all rooftops within a certain area would have been carefully checked for debris.
It would look really stupid if they found the flight recorder on a roof that didn't get checked.
ETA: damn shame
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:22:11 AM EDT
in Britton they are still finding German bombs from WWII.
These are fragments. Not whole skeletons. What people fail to understand is the WTS area is a war zone. You can expect to find bits of people and unexploded ordinance in a war zone.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:24:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Only_Hits_Count:
40% unidentified????? WTF?



Not to be disrespectful to the dead or excessively macabre, but think about it, there were people likely literally ground into paste and bits in the collapse. Then it got flung in every direction when the debris cloud developed as the buildings fell.

I'm surprised the number isn't higher frankly.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:27:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hk940:
in Britton they are still finding German bombs from WWII.
These are fragments. Not whole skeletons. What people fail to understand is the WTS area is a war zone. You can expect to find bits of people and unexploded ordinance in a war zone.



I understand..but its a lot harder to search an entire country for half buried bombs than it should be to search 16 acres.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:27:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:

Originally Posted By Only_Hits_Count:
40% unidentified????? WTF?



Not to be disrespectful to the dead or excessively macabre, but think about it, there were people likely literally ground into paste and bits in the collapse. Then it got flung in every direction when the debris cloud developed as the buildings fell.

I'm surprised the number isn't higher frankly.


I've seen them pull DNA from a 2000+ year old skeleton.

40% seems way too high to me.

How do they know how many people died?? That would seem to point to a list of names.
match DNA to name on list.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:30:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VoodooChile:

Originally Posted By hk940:
in Britton they are still finding German bombs from WWII.
These are fragments. Not whole skeletons. What people fail to understand is the WTS area is a war zone. You can expect to find bits of people and unexploded ordinance in a war zone.



I understand..but its a lot harder to search an entire country for half buried bombs than it should be to search 16 acres.


Manhattan building rooftops aren't that big.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:31:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Only_Hits_Count:

Originally Posted By macman37:

Originally Posted By Only_Hits_Count:
40% unidentified????? WTF?



Not to be disrespectful to the dead or excessively macabre, but think about it, there were people likely literally ground into paste and bits in the collapse. Then it got flung in every direction when the debris cloud developed as the buildings fell.

I'm surprised the number isn't higher frankly.


I've seen them pull DNA from a 2000+ year old skeleton.

40% seems way too high to me.

How do they know how many people died?? That would seem to point to a list of names.
match DNA to name on list.



Did the 2000+ year old skeleton pass gently into the night, then get well preserved somehow, or did it have a flaming skyscraper fall on it?

Circumstances are everything.

Not trying to you, just want to make a point.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:36:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By twonami:

Originally Posted By VoodooChile:

Originally Posted By hk940:
in Britton they are still finding German bombs from WWII.
These are fragments. Not whole skeletons. What people fail to understand is the WTS area is a war zone. You can expect to find bits of people and unexploded ordinance in a war zone.



I understand..but its a lot harder to search an entire country for half buried bombs than it should be to search 16 acres.


Manhattan building rooftops aren't that big.


but what are you looking for? at most a bit of bone that looks a lot like pea gravel.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:38:11 AM EDT
I remember watching a documentary on one of the responding NYFD units involved in searching the debris pile for survivors/victims. One quote from a fireman spoke volumes.
He said something to the effect - there is nothing recognizable in the debris not even a desk or chair. The largest think he saw was part of a phone. When the towers came down they acted like a blender tearing everything to bits, then it burned for months.
Never forget.

Rich V
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:41:39 AM EDT
And in the heat from those fires that burned for months, a lot of the DNA in what body parts remained was degraded pretty badly.

My best man from my wedding worked in the DeutscheBank building. He was late for work on 9/11 because he had stopped to vote on the way in.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:43:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2006 11:46:45 AM EDT by twonami]

Originally Posted By hk940:

Originally Posted By twonami:

Originally Posted By VoodooChile:

Originally Posted By hk940:
in Britton they are still finding German bombs from WWII.
These are fragments. Not whole skeletons. What people fail to understand is the WTS area is a war zone. You can expect to find bits of people and unexploded ordinance in a war zone.



I understand..but its a lot harder to search an entire country for half buried bombs than it should be to search 16 acres.


Manhattan building rooftops aren't that big.


but what are you looking for? at most a bit of bone that looks a lot like pea gravel.


But it was construction workers not NYFD that found the bone fragments.
You would think a NYFD check would have found the bone frags and not construction guys.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:48:28 AM EDT
Remember, what happened that day was just an abberation...nothing more....

At least that is what certain people espouse, some with the initials PMG.......

Every time I think about that day, and those people, my blood boils.....

All thanks to 19 muslims who thought it was a good idea to die for allah while killing infidels....

And how many sheeple have already forgotten?
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:49:10 AM EDT
May their souls rest in peace...
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:49:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:

Originally Posted By Only_Hits_Count:

Originally Posted By macman37:

Originally Posted By Only_Hits_Count:
40% unidentified????? WTF?



Not to be disrespectful to the dead or excessively macabre, but think about it, there were people likely literally ground into paste and bits in the collapse. Then it got flung in every direction when the debris cloud developed as the buildings fell.

I'm surprised the number isn't higher frankly.


I've seen them pull DNA from a 2000+ year old skeleton.

40% seems way too high to me.

How do they know how many people died?? That would seem to point to a list of names.
match DNA to name on list.



Did the 2000+ year old skeleton pass gently into the night, then get well preserved somehow, or did it have a flaming skyscraper fall on it?

Circumstances are everything.

Not trying to you, just want to make a point.



Fair enough... BUT.. how do they say 'we have 2700 dead' but we don't know who they are????

Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:26:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By twonami:

Originally Posted By hk940:

Originally Posted By twonami:

Originally Posted By VoodooChile:

Originally Posted By hk940:
in Britton they are still finding German bombs from WWII.
These are fragments. Not whole skeletons. What people fail to understand is the WTS area is a war zone. You can expect to find bits of people and unexploded ordinance in a war zone.



I understand..but its a lot harder to search an entire country for half buried bombs than it should be to search 16 acres.


Manhattan building rooftops aren't that big.


but what are you looking for? at most a bit of bone that looks a lot like pea gravel.


But it was construction workers not NYFD that found the bone fragments.
You would think a NYFD check would have found the bone frags and not construction guys.



maybe NYFD was looking for big pieces and things that look like bone during their "sweep". going fast and getting it done.
the construction workers my have been getting ready to asphalt a roof and they were doing detail prep work and one bends down and finds something odd.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:26:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Only_Hits_Count:

Originally Posted By macman37:

Originally Posted By Only_Hits_Count:

Originally Posted By macman37:

Originally Posted By Only_Hits_Count:
40% unidentified????? WTF?



Not to be disrespectful to the dead or excessively macabre, but think about it, there were people likely literally ground into paste and bits in the collapse. Then it got flung in every direction when the debris cloud developed as the buildings fell.

I'm surprised the number isn't higher frankly.


I've seen them pull DNA from a 2000+ year old skeleton.

40% seems way too high to me.

How do they know how many people died?? That would seem to point to a list of names.
match DNA to name on list.



Did the 2000+ year old skeleton pass gently into the night, then get well preserved somehow, or did it have a flaming skyscraper fall on it?

Circumstances are everything.

Not trying to you, just want to make a point.



Fair enough... BUT.. how do they say 'we have 2700 dead' but we don't know who they are????




The 2700 is an estimate, probably taken from missing reports about people who were known to have been in the building, and people who never came home from that morning.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:53:29 PM EDT
It's not going to be feasible to account for every scrap. We're talking bone fragments measured in millimeters here, most of it burnt. It's not like there was a complete leg on the roof. It becomes a case of the possible vs the impossible.

Link Posted: 3/28/2006 1:07:40 PM EDT
All shows the depicable nature of our enemy... And all the more reasons to destroy them where they stand with everything we've got.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 7:30:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:

Originally Posted By Only_Hits_Count:
40% unidentified????? WTF?



Not to be disrespectful to the dead or excessively macabre, but think about it, there were people likely literally ground into paste and bits in the collapse. Then it got flung in every direction when the debris cloud developed as the buildings fell.

I'm surprised the number isn't higher frankly.



I found scraps of paper and such near my house 7 miles away.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 7:35:47 PM EDT
I'm still every bit as pissed as I was at noon on 9/11.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 7:37:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:

Originally Posted By Only_Hits_Count:
40% unidentified????? WTF?


Not to be disrespectful to the dead or excessively macabre, but think about it, there were people likely literally ground into paste and bits in the collapse. Then it got flung in every direction when the debris cloud developed as the buildings fell.

I'm surprised the number isn't higher frankly.


Yep.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 7:39:15 PM EDT
It's not surprising at all.

I would say, not even newsworthy.

If you don't like that, call you senator and see if you can get that person to reduce the amount of foreign visas... they said no?

too bad, America... you are no longer in charge.

Link Posted: 3/28/2006 7:39:52 PM EDT
The sheeple have forgotten.
Their plasma TVs and video games work. Their cell phones work and the grocery stores are full.
Their every wish is at their demand.
And Nero fiddles as Rome burns.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 7:40:34 PM EDT
5 years later I'm still pissed and still dissapointed in our response.

Link Posted: 3/28/2006 7:50:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By twonami:
I would have thought that all rooftops within a certain area would have been carefully checked for debris.
It would look really stupid if they found the flight recorder on a roof that didn't get checked.
ETA: damn shame



It is possible that the bones have not always been there. Birds or other wild animals may have carried whatever remains they came from to that rooftop since it was originally searched.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 7:51:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 10:04:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 10:11:22 PM EDT
It hasn't seemed like 5 years to me...

I can still picture those towers, smoking and debris falling like it just happened.

Then again, it's things like that you don't forget (and for good reason).


Link Posted: 3/28/2006 10:51:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By guardian855:

Originally Posted By Only_Hits_Count:

Originally Posted By macman37:

Originally Posted By Only_Hits_Count:

Originally Posted By macman37:

Originally Posted By Only_Hits_Count:
40% unidentified????? WTF?



Not to be disrespectful to the dead or excessively macabre, but think about it, there were people likely literally ground into paste and bits in the collapse. Then it got flung in every direction when the debris cloud developed as the buildings fell.

I'm surprised the number isn't higher frankly.


I've seen them pull DNA from a 2000+ year old skeleton.

40% seems way too high to me.

How do they know how many people died?? That would seem to point to a list of names.
match DNA to name on list.



Did the 2000+ year old skeleton pass gently into the night, then get well preserved somehow, or did it have a flaming skyscraper fall on it?

Circumstances are everything.

Not trying to you, just want to make a point.



Fair enough... BUT.. how do they say 'we have 2700 dead' but we don't know who they are????




The 2700 is an estimate, probably taken from missing reports about people who were known to have been in the building, and people who never came home from that morning.



You guys are reading into the numbers too far. They know 100% of the names of the people who died there, but they may not have a base DNA sample of 40% of the victims to compare the newly discovered remains to.

In other words they can only match any remains found to 6 out of 10 possible people.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 3:17:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Sturmwehr:
It hasn't seemed like 5 years to me...

I can still picture those towers, smoking and debris falling like it just happened.

Then again, it's things like that you don't forget (and for good reason).





+1 I heard 5 years and had to actually do the math. Damn.....doesn't seem that long.

I was born and raised in NY, but haven't been back since before 9/11. I don't really think I want to go back either. The last time I saw the NYC skyline, the WTC was a part of it. not sure how I'd feel actually SEEING the void.....
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 3:40:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:
Did the 2000+ year old skeleton pass gently into the night, then get well preserved somehow, or did it have a flaming skyscraper fall on it?

Circumstances are everything.

Not trying to you, just want to make a point.



I am not an engineer or a physicist, but I am a fairly logical man.

How much did the WTC towers weigh? What kind of pressure would that much weight exert on a human corpse when falling from the heights of the WTC? About how fast would the debris be moving when it impacts a corpse?

It seems to me that between the heat that was bad enough to melt steel and the sheer mass of that building collapsing, that there were enough forces to almost obliterate many of the bodies at the WTC.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 3:41:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2006 3:43:44 AM EDT by John_Wayne777]

Originally Posted By twonami:
But it was construction workers not NYFD that found the bone fragments.
You would think a NYFD check would have found the bone frags and not construction guys.



Not really.

There was SO much carnage and SO much debris, that a recognition developed almost instantly that they weren't going to be able to recover a whole lot of bodies.

NYPD and NYFD see a lot of awful stuff. But even those guys who have seen everything were walking around in a state of shock during 9/11.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 3:47:21 AM EDT


Link Posted: 3/29/2006 3:47:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
5 years later I'm still pissed and still dissapointed in our response.




... The thing that pisses me off more is how libtards are marginalizing the event. Insinuating it was America's fault the towers crashed to the ground. We are being eaten from within
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 3:56:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf:
... The thing that pisses me off more is how libtards are marginalizing the event. Insinuating it was America's fault the towers crashed to the ground. We are being eaten from within



It is typical liberal revisionism.

They live in a pretend universe. On 9/11 the realities of our policies for the past 8 years came home to roost. There was no doubt about what we had to do: We had to go kick some a$$.

Now ask around and see how many liberals support our presence in Afghanistan where we are hunting OBL.

Things were clear on 9/11. Then liberals started running their mouths for the next 4 3/4 years and NOW look at where we are.

Liberals are so dunderheaded that they can talk themselves into ANYTHING.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 4:06:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By twonami:

Originally Posted By VoodooChile:

Originally Posted By hk940:
in Britton they are still finding German bombs from WWII.
These are fragments. Not whole skeletons. What people fail to understand is the WTS area is a war zone. You can expect to find bits of people and unexploded ordinance in a war zone.



I understand..but its a lot harder to search an entire country for half buried bombs than it should be to search 16 acres.


Manhattan building rooftops aren't that big.




Who's going to pay for it?
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 4:29:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Sturmwehr:
It hasn't seemed like 5 years to me...

I can still picture those towers, smoking and debris falling like it just happened.

Then again, it's things like that you don't forget (and for good reason).





Same here...Amazing how I can sit here seething in anger while my heart breaks.

Link Posted: 3/29/2006 4:31:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf:
... The thing that pisses me off more is how libtards are marginalizing the event. Insinuating it was America's fault the towers crashed to the ground. We are being eaten from within



It is typical liberal revisionism.

They live in a pretend universe. On 9/11 the realities of our policies for the past 8 years came home to roost. There was no doubt about what we had to do: We had to go kick some a$$.

Now ask around and see how many liberals support our presence in Afghanistan where we are hunting OBL.

Things were clear on 9/11. Then liberals started running their mouths for the next 4 3/4 years and NOW look at where we are.

Liberals are so dunderheaded that they can talk themselves into ANYTHING.



Yes they do live in a make believe world and some will never wake to reality. The terrorists however are not sleeping and will strike again. It is up to us to see that next time the correct action is taken by our government by voicing loudly and relentlessly our views. I’m a nonviolent person but if I hear some left wing idiot blaming us after the next attack it may come to blows. We all need to focus our righteous anger against this PC crap and do it in their faces otherwise we will lose this war!
Rich V
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 4:36:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Only_Hits_Count:

Originally Posted By macman37:

Originally Posted By Only_Hits_Count:
40% unidentified????? WTF?



Not to be disrespectful to the dead or excessively macabre, but think about it, there were people likely literally ground into paste and bits in the collapse. Then it got flung in every direction when the debris cloud developed as the buildings fell.

I'm surprised the number isn't higher frankly.


I've seen them pull DNA from a 2000+ year old skeleton.

40% seems way too high to me.

How do they know how many people died?? That would seem to point to a list of names.
match DNA to name on list.



Maybe some folks can't be IDed by DNA due to a lack of a base sample to compare to?
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 4:37:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bvmjethead:

Originally Posted By twonami:

Originally Posted By VoodooChile:

Originally Posted By hk940:
in Britton they are still finding German bombs from WWII.
These are fragments. Not whole skeletons. What people fail to understand is the WTS area is a war zone. You can expect to find bits of people and unexploded ordinance in a war zone.



I understand..but its a lot harder to search an entire country for half buried bombs than it should be to search 16 acres.


Manhattan building rooftops aren't that big.




Who's going to pay for it?



After all that's happened we can't search 16 acres to give a little peace to some of the families that never found anything?
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 9:33:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bvmjethead:

Originally Posted By twonami:

Originally Posted By VoodooChile:

Originally Posted By hk940:
in Britton they are still finding German bombs from WWII.
These are fragments. Not whole skeletons. What people fail to understand is the WTS area is a war zone. You can expect to find bits of people and unexploded ordinance in a war zone.



I understand..but its a lot harder to search an entire country for half buried bombs than it should be to search 16 acres.


Manhattan building rooftops aren't that big.




Who's going to pay for it?


That's what the building maintenance guys are for.
When I did that kind of work in high school working on the roof was part of the job description.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 9:46:44 PM EDT
NEVER FORGET!!!
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 9:48:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2006 9:49:10 PM EDT by Andreuha]
Don't know about you guys, but I think a 40 story commercial building is pretty damn big for a fine-toothed combing through. Besides, the roof was covered in gravel, so even if it were a careful sweep (I'd assume it was for a rooftop in particular) by the FD, we're probably talking about teeth or fingers here.

Edit: this thing is being pulled apart floor-by-floor, so I'm sure if there is anything left it will be found. This is probably the most thorough search possible.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 9:55:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PerryCounty:
NEVER FORGET!!!



AND NEVER EVER FORGIVE!
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