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Posted: 3/28/2006 11:03:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2006 11:24:13 AM EDT by AROptics]
Combined that would be the 7th largest state in the "U.S."

"Immigration bill expands
Senate panel OKs measure; two weeks of debate follow
WASHINGTON - The Senate Judiciary Committee on Monday approved a comprehensive immigration overhaul that includes new guest-worker programs and the prospect of legal status for up to 12 million illegal immigrants already in this country."

Call your politicians.

States Ranked by Population

California - 35,484,453
Texas - 22,118,509
New York - 19,190,115
Florida - 17,019,068
Illinois - 12,653,544
Pennsylvania - 12,365,455
EL ESTADO MEXICANO 12,000,000 (sorry, but it won't be just one state, it'll be the margin of victory in many, many states for the Democrats).
Ohio - 11,435,798
Michigan - 10,079,985
Georgia - 8,684,715
New Jersey - 8,638,396
North Carolina - 8,407,248
Virginia - 7,386,330
Massachusetts - 6,433,422
Indiana - 6,195,643
Washington - 6,131,445
Tennessee - 5,841,748
Missouri - 5,704,484
Arizona - 5,580,811
Maryland - 5,508,909
Wisconsin - 5,472,299
Minnesota - 5,059,375
Colorado - 4,550,688
Alabama - 4,500,752
Louisiana - 4,496,334
South Carolina - 4,147,152
Kentucky - 4,117,827
Puerto Rico - 3,878,532
Oregon - 3,559,596
Oklahoma - 3,511,532
Connecticut - 3,483,372
Iowa - 2,944,062
Mississippi - 2,881,281
Arkansas - 2,725,714
Kansas - 2,723,507
Utah - 2,351,467
Nevada - 2,241,154
New Mexico - 1,874,614
West Virginia - 1,810,354
Nebraska - 1,739,291
Idaho - 1,366,332
Maine - 1,305,728
New Hampshire - 1,287,687
Hawaii - 1,257,608
Rhode Island - 1,076,164
Montana - 917,621
Delaware - 817,491
South Dakota - 764,309
Alaska - 648,818
North Dakota - 633,837
Vermont - 619,107
Washington, District of Columbia - 563,384
Wyoming - 501,242
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:05:24 AM EDT

and they'll be lucky if more than 2% ever vote republican.

i honestly do not belive a more assinine course of action by the republican party could have been intentionally scripted.

Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:07:13 AM EDT
WRITE, CALL, OR OTHERWISE HARASS YOUR ELECTED OFFICIALS!!! THIS FIGHT IS NOT OVER!!!
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:09:33 AM EDT
Its a sad day for this country...count your days folks, the country slides further downhill everyday.

We defeated communism, only to let it take over our country....how ironic.

Most politicians and many people in this country are basically traitors. And should suffer a traitors fate....

Hell, why put it off, just open the southern border, and hand the keys to the mexicans. Fuck, I like queso....
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:21:53 AM EDT
so habib can get a guest worker card, to blow up shit that Americans wont. The Senate and the Pres have their collective heads in their rear ends on this one.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:23:49 AM EDT
And then, they all vote to make Puerto Rico a state. Add 4 million more Spanish speakers.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:28:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2006 11:29:18 AM EDT by macman37]
Does the measure include Social Security numbers? Background checks? More people adding tax money into the idiotic Social programs we have going is a good thing.

There could be a bright (ish) side to this, guys. I will not throw anything out without analyzing it.

Remember, the Dubai Ports Deal looked bad at first blush too. Wasn't so bad after you really looked into it though.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:28:43 AM EDT
Dont everbody fall on your swords quite yet. The way I understand it is that the ammensty part of the bill will NEVER pass so just give it a little time to see what comes out after the dust clears.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:31:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:
WRITE, CALL, OR OTHERWISE HARASS YOUR ELECTED OFFICIALS!!! THIS FIGHT IS NOT OVER!!!



If that's what you need to tell yourself to sleep at night. I try to live in a more reality based world where I know there is no way any of their constituents will have any say in this matter. It's all about future votes, nothing more.

Flame me all you want but I don't believe for one second that calling anyone is going to make any difference on this issue.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:35:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2006 11:37:06 AM EDT by AROptics]

Originally Posted By macman37:
Does the measure include Social Security numbers? Background checks? More people adding tax money into the idiotic Social programs we have going is a good thing.

There could be a bright (ish) side to this, guys. I will not throw anything out without analyzing it.

Remember, the Dubai Ports Deal looked bad at first blush too. Wasn't so bad after you really looked into it though.



Leaf Blower Guy: bandana $2, Budweiser and Nacho Cheese Doritos $5, Free lifetime medical, schools for kids, social security benefits for him and the entire extended family...Priceless.

3rd world, non-English speakers cannot contribute what they cost. No other first world country but us fails to understand that.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:36:45 AM EDT
Why just Mexicans.

WTF is going on? Are illegal Mexicans special? Why cant we do this for Liberia for Christs sake, at least they wave AMERICAN flags at their rallys/civil wars.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:36:57 AM EDT
That's it, I'm fucking buying more ammo and magazines. Fuck the car payments.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:38:40 AM EDT
Someday i'm gonna be on the news
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:39:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pathfinder74:

If that's what you need to tell yourself to sleep at night. I try to live in a more reality based world where I know there is no way any of their constituents will have any say in this matter. It's all about future votes, nothing more.

Flame me all you want but I don't believe for one second that calling anyone is going to make any difference on this issue.



Then you have given up on our constitution. I dont believe that this country is so far gone that it can't be brought back, but throwing your hands up in the air and saying that you dont think you can do anything doesnt help.

If you act like you can't do anything- you've made your own dreams come true.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:52:12 AM EDT
For those of you who are totally against this... What would you have ANY President do at this point? Round them up? Kick the doors down and go get everyone?

Do you REALLY want the .gov to acquire the kind of ability and logistics it would take to nab 12 million people who don't want to be caught? (think slippery slope, folks)

FWIW I agree we should close up the porous borders. But what are we to do now. The genie is out of the bottle.

I am genuinely curious here. I don't want illegals here either but are the consequences worth the costs...? Honest discussion, do not flame me.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:54:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:
Does the measure include Social Security numbers? Background checks? More people adding tax money into the idiotic Social programs we have going is a good thing.

There could be a bright (ish) side to this, guys. I will not throw anything out without analyzing it.

Remember, the Dubai Ports Deal looked bad at first blush too. Wasn't so bad after you really looked into it though.



You're getting warmer.

Social programs are definately a driver, we need population growth to keep the ponzi scheme going a few more years, but how exactly keeping a ponzi alive longer and letting it get bigger and its inevitable failure more destructive is a bright side eludes me.

They are willing to destroy the republic to preserve the FRN, traitors is absolutely correct, and less than 1% of the population understand what's really going on, in a democracy that's a fatal situation.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:55:21 AM EDT
Via Jorge Bush!
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:56:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:
For those of you who are totally against this... What would you have ANY President do at this point? Round them up? Kick the doors down and go get everyone?

Do you REALLY want the .gov to acquire the kind of ability and logistics it would take to nab 12 million people who don't want to be caught? (think slippery slope, folks)

FWIW I agree we should close up the porous borders. But what are we to do now. The genie is out of the bottle.

I am genuinely curious here. I don't want illegals here either but are the consequences worth the costs...? Honest discussion, do not flame me.



Round up who you can with the resources available. A lot will trickle out of the woodwork. People will call immigration, police will most likely see a lot of them doing crimes. Just because removing 12 million illegals is a daunting task doesn't mean we shouldn't undertake it.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:57:06 AM EDT
Oh and 12 million is the optimistic estimate.

Some people put the number as high as 30 million.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:57:43 AM EDT
Ending welfare entitlements would be a good start. The aroma of wealth re-distribution is attracting leaches. Go figure...
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:58:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:
For those of you who are totally against this... What would you have ANY President do at this point? Round them up? Kick the doors down and go get everyone?

Do you REALLY want the .gov to acquire the kind of ability and logistics it would take to nab 12 million people who don't want to be caught? (think slippery slope, folks)

FWIW I agree we should close up the porous borders. But what are we to do now. The genie is out of the bottle.

I am genuinely curious here. I don't want illegals here either but are the consequences worth the costs...? Honest discussion, do not flame me.



send in the marines to the next rally... theres half a million of em right off
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:58:57 AM EDT


If they do let all this bullshit go through. All they have to do to make everything right. Is to make every single one of them pay taxes and contribute to medicare like we have to. Cheaper than rounding them all up and sending them home.

If they don't all run back across the border, it will help pay the deficit down.

Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:59:28 AM EDT
I'm more than a little curious, if the illegals are really "stealing" jobs away, then would sendin 12 million of them back free up 12 millions jobs?

I've been trying to keep a much more open mind aout this whole thing lately, being realistic if nothing else.

The amount of resources and money it would cost US (not the government) would be beyond cimprehension. Not even going into the cost of actually transporting 12 milllion people, but tracking that many people down, detaining them, housing//feeding them until they can be moved? Not to mention would the amount sent back be more, less, or equal to the amount still coming in? And I'm not talking about the ones running from mexico into Texas of Kali. What about the ones who come here on "vacation" and never leave. I believe Koreans make up 11% of the illegal immigrant population and they sure as hell ain't jumping a fence from Korea to get into the US.

Not to say I wouldn't still like to see a huge wall built on the border but that doesn't solve the entire problem by any stretch.

If a bill gets passes that allowed them to stay I hope the politicians have some sort of plan set up to at least get rid of the ones that have a criminal record in their countries of origin. otherwise THAT would be a huge blemish on the Department of Homeland Security.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:00:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:
For those of you who are totally against this... What would you have ANY President do at this point? Round them up? Kick the doors down and go get everyone?

Do you REALLY want the .gov to acquire the kind of ability and logistics it would take to nab 12 million people who don't want to be caught? (think slippery slope, folks)

FWIW I agree we should close up the porous borders. But what are we to do now. The genie is out of the bottle.

I am genuinely curious here. I don't want illegals here either but are the consequences worth the costs...? Honest discussion, do not flame me.




while i agree with you that we don't want them to be "rounded up" for various reasons, just because there are too many illegals here isn't a reason to say, "there's too many to get rid of, so we'll just let them stay".

it should be astepped program of deporting anyone we catch, and strengthening the boarders at the same time. no more of this drivers-licenses-for-illegals crap either. that kind of stuff ain't helpin matters.


Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:00:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:
For those of you who are totally against this... What would you have ANY President do at this point? Round them up? Kick the doors down and go get everyone?

Do you REALLY want the .gov to acquire the kind of ability and logistics it would take to nab 12 million people who don't want to be caught? (think slippery slope, folks)

FWIW I agree we should close up the porous borders. But what are we to do now. The genie is out of the bottle.

I am genuinely curious here. I don't want illegals here either but are the consequences worth the costs...? Honest discussion, do not flame me.



Well I doubt we could ever round up all 12 million....BUT

Lets do something for cripes sakes....We've all seen pics and footage on the news of scumbag illegals gathering in areas early in the morning hoping to get snapped up for some day labor.

Well, if we know pretty well these are all illegals, swoop down and pick 'em all up. Get rid of them, tell them if they try to come back across they will be shot, and mean it.

Stop turning a blind eye. These people are a drain on our resources, and contribute little except cheap labor and lots of crime. They get drivers licenses, how many do you think actually have insurance? When they get into accidents, more drain. They drain health care resources. They drain welfare. They drain everything.

Rounding up and sending 5 million home is better than sending 0 home.....

And then seal the border. Defend it with deadly force. Mines work well, its what they were designed for. MG ammo is cheaper than medical care, welfare court time, and impotent Border patrol patrols....
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:03:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Orion_Shall_Rise:

Originally Posted By macman37:
For those of you who are totally against this... What would you have ANY President do at this point? Round them up? Kick the doors down and go get everyone?

Do you REALLY want the .gov to acquire the kind of ability and logistics it would take to nab 12 million people who don't want to be caught? (think slippery slope, folks)

FWIW I agree we should close up the porous borders. But what are we to do now. The genie is out of the bottle.

I am genuinely curious here. I don't want illegals here either but are the consequences worth the costs...? Honest discussion, do not flame me.



send in the marines to the next rally... theres half a million of em right off



Replace "Illegal immigrants" with "gun owners" and reevaluate.

Do you REALLY want people (who would become taxpayers under this plan) out that bad?

(in all honesty I think it's high time we scrapped our current tax system and instituted a "fair tax" or better, a flat sales tax so everyone is hit according to their consumption... Whether they're legal or not, they get taxed...)
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:07:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:
For those of you who are totally against this... What would you have ANY President do at this point? Round them up? Kick the doors down and go get everyone?

Do you REALLY want the .gov to acquire the kind of ability and logistics it would take to nab 12 million people who don't want to be caught? (think slippery slope, folks)

FWIW I agree we should close up the porous borders. But what are we to do now. The genie is out of the bottle.

I am genuinely curious here. I don't want illegals here either but are the consequences worth the costs...? Honest discussion, do not flame me.



Same BS they said in 1986 when they legalized 3 million.

12 million illegals, but far, far fewer EMPLOYERS (the traitors). That is why Repubicans are selling out our future. They won't make the EMPLOYERS (the traitors) responsible for the damage they are doing. All you'd have to do is make EMPLOYERS pay the medical costs of those they employ. That is enough right there and illegals would become the bottomless pit liability to the EMPLOYERS that they are presently to our NATION.

Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:10:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2006 12:11:18 PM EDT by The_Macallan]

Originally Posted By macman37:
For those of you who are totally against this... What would you have ANY President do at this point? Round them up? Kick the doors down and go get everyone?


Increase the fines for employing illegal immigrants 10-fold.

Hire 1,000 more immigration officials to go to employers and enforce those laws.

Hire 2,000 more border patrol agents per year, give them staff and material support and allow them to PURSUE illegal aliens seen crossing the border. (did you know BP are not allowed to chase illegals in vehicles?)

Allow local police the authority to go after and arrest people violating immigration laws.

Require proof of citizenship in order to vote in all federal elections.

Stop offering free education, non-emergency medical care, housing subsidies and mortgage-incentives to illegal immigrants.

Stop harrassing and threatening law-abiding citizens like the Minutemen and branding them as "vigilantes".

REMOVE THE REASONS THEY COME HERE AND THEY'LL STOP COMING!


What's so hard about that?
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:11:31 PM EDT
i would go along with amnesty IF they made a HUGE fine for anyone found to be employing illegals. It is logistically impossible to get the illegals out. There are simply too many. 12 million is the LOW end of the scale. I ahve seen estimates up to 40 million.

By going after the employers, you go after the REASON they come here in the first place. Shut down the demand for illegal work, and the supply of illegals will trail off as well.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:12:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:12:42 PM EDT
nothing will stop the immigration issue. all that can be done is to pass laws that no one will enforce.

simple dynamcis..

tremendous economic pressure to come north .. all throughout mexico, central and south america. people in the millions willing risk all, life and limb to come to the US or Canada.

there is only one way to stop it and this will never happen, equalize the pressure.. if latinos could make decent wages in their own countries they wouldna come here in such large numbers. but their countries are corrupt beyond most americanos comprehension. basically impossible to set up productive economies because of this. we would have to conquer the southern hemisphere, impose dictatorial rule, brutally clean up all corruption and establish civil order and a firm economic base. which we will never do.

they will keep coming. they are willing to die trying. we are not willing to deal with that level of determination..

adapt, imigrate to new zeeland or go crazy.. those are you only choices.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:13:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By macman37:
For those of you who are totally against this... What would you have ANY President do at this point? Round them up? Kick the doors down and go get everyone?


Increase the fines for employing illegal immigrants 10-fold.

Hire 1,000 more immigration officials to go to employers and enforce those laws.

Hire 2,000 more border patrol agents per year, give them staff and material support and allow them to PURSUE illegal aliens seen crossing the border. (did you know BP are not allowed to chase illegals in vehicles?)

Allow local police the authority to go after and arrest people violating immigration laws.

Require proof of citizenship in order to vote in all federal elections.

Stop offering free education, non-emergency medical care, housing subsidies and mortgage-incentives to illegal immigrants.

Stop harrassing and threatening law-abiding citizens like the Minutemen and branding them as "vigilantes".

REMOVE THE REASONS THEY COME HERE AND THEY'LL STOP COMING!


What's so hard about that?



+1
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:15:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jj01:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By macman37:
For those of you who are totally against this... What would you have ANY President do at this point? Round them up? Kick the doors down and go get everyone?


Increase the fines for employing illegal immigrants 10-fold.

Hire 1,000 more immigration officials to go to employers and enforce those laws.

Hire 2,000 more border patrol agents per year, give them staff and material support and allow them to PURSUE illegal aliens seen crossing the border. (did you know BP are not allowed to chase illegals in vehicles?)

Allow local police the authority to go after and arrest people violating immigration laws.

Require proof of citizenship in order to vote in all federal elections.

Stop offering free education, non-emergency medical care, housing subsidies and mortgage-incentives to illegal immigrants.

Stop harrassing and threatening law-abiding citizens like the Minutemen and branding them as "vigilantes".

REMOVE THE REASONS THEY COME HERE AND THEY'LL STOP COMING!


What's so hard about that?



+1



+2 I would but add a few other things, but they would violate the CoC
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:17:54 PM EDT
The Senate Judiciary Committee on Monday approved a comprehensive immigration overhaul that includes new guest-worker programs and the prospect of legal status for up to 12 million illegal immigrants already in this country."

The Senate Judiciary Committee is not the GOP, it's a a bi-partisan panel. The word "prospect" from the above sentence does not equal legistation. It's means maybe. Get a grip folks. There will be a two week debate. Then the House and the Senate will pass bills and then they will reconsile differences. While all this is going on the illegals will be rushing our borders in greater numbers. In Texas, our Govenor has deployed troops, police and the Texas Rangers. It's going to get worse before it gets better. On the city and state level, you can lobby for enabling your police to arrest illegals. Once this is done, we as citizens can finger the illegals and get them deported. Good luck.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:18:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2006 12:19:37 PM EDT by Roland_O_Gilead]

Originally Posted By jj01:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By macman37:
For those of you who are totally against this... What would you have ANY President do at this point? Round them up? Kick the doors down and go get everyone?


Increase the fines for employing illegal immigrants 10-fold.

Hire 1,000 more immigration officials to go to employers and enforce those laws.

Hire 2,000 more border patrol agents per year, give them staff and material support and allow them to PURSUE illegal aliens seen crossing the border. (did you know BP are not allowed to chase illegals in vehicles?)

Allow local police the authority to go after and arrest people violating immigration laws.

Require proof of citizenship in order to vote in all federal elections.

Stop offering free education, non-emergency medical care, housing subsidies and mortgage-incentives to illegal immigrants.

Stop harrassing and threatening law-abiding citizens like the Minutemen and branding them as "vigilantes".

REMOVE THE REASONS THEY COME HERE AND THEY'LL STOP COMING!


What's so hard about that?



+1



This is pretty much what Georgia has been trying to do. The weakest link in the whole equation is the employer. Just ramp up the fines for hiring illegals - say $5,000 per illegal per day worked. Hire some more immigration officials to check up on employers and make sure they are not aiding illegals. After one or two rounds of fines the businesses will realize it is a lot cheaper to hire legal Mexicans than illegal ones.

And don't bitch when your lawn service raises their prices by 25%. That is cheap compared to the cost of inaction.

We don't have to physically remove the illegals. Dry up their jobs and most will go back. The ones that want to stay and illegally leach off welfare fraud will get concrete and steel housing.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:18:33 PM EDT
12 million? bullshit. try closer to 40 million illegals.


this country is fucked. seriously.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:18:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:

Originally Posted By Orion_Shall_Rise:

Originally Posted By macman37:
For those of you who are totally against this... What would you have ANY President do at this point? Round them up? Kick the doors down and go get everyone?

Do you REALLY want the .gov to acquire the kind of ability and logistics it would take to nab 12 million people who don't want to be caught? (think slippery slope, folks)

FWIW I agree we should close up the porous borders. But what are we to do now. The genie is out of the bottle.

I am genuinely curious here. I don't want illegals here either but are the consequences worth the costs...? Honest discussion, do not flame me.



send in the marines to the next rally... theres half a million of em right off



Replace "Illegal immigrants" with "gun owners" and reevaluate.

Do you REALLY want people (who would become taxpayers under this plan) out that bad?

(in all honesty I think it's high time we scrapped our current tax system and instituted a "fair tax" or better, a flat sales tax so everyone is hit according to their consumption... Whether they're legal or not, they get taxed...)



Taxpayers? Having 10 kids and collecting AFDC doesn't make you a "taxpayer". And when your husband works off the books for cash it still doesn't mean you contribute a dime to the tax base.

Illegals inspire more tax evasion than tax payment. THAT IS WHY THEY ARE SO POPULAR. Low wages and a fellow law breaker make tax evasion a snap. No health insurance, workers comp, FICA? Such a deal!

Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:19:19 PM EDT
If they enforced CURRENT LAWS, we would have been OK. Instead, the "best way" that Congress can deal with new problems is to make NEW LAWS.

Illegal aliens are not supposed to be allowed to work at legitimate companies. We have been looking the other way for too long.

Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:19:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By macman37:
For those of you who are totally against this... What would you have ANY President do at this point? Round them up? Kick the doors down and go get everyone?


Increase the fines for employing illegal immigrants 10-fold.

Hire 1,000 more immigration officials to go to employers and enforce those laws.

Hire 2,000 more border patrol agents per year, give them staff and material support and allow them to PURSUE illegal aliens seen crossing the border. (did you know BP are not allowed to chase illegals in vehicles?)

Allow local police the authority to go after and arrest people violating immigration laws.

Require proof of citizenship in order to vote in all federal elections.

Stop offering free education, non-emergency medical care, housing subsidies and mortgage-incentives to illegal immigrants.

Stop harrassing and threatening law-abiding citizens like the Minutemen and branding them as "vigilantes".

REMOVE THE REASONS THEY COME HERE AND THEY'LL STOP COMING!


What's so hard about that?



They come here because it's America, land of the Free, home of the Buck. Same reasons my ancestors came here (legally) and indubitably the reasons yours did too.

So you'll never erase the reasons people come here. This is as close to Utopia as it comes, as messed up as it is.

If they work menial/whatever jobs their whole lives and pay in to the system (they'll get registered into the SSN system as part of this amnesty program as I understand it)... how are they any different from a guy born here in the sticks living in his house with his family having made $12k/year for 30 years?

I don't mean to go round and round on this but... Make those 12 million immigrants Americans - give them SSN cards and do background checks to ensure they're not felons in their home nations as good as possible and send them back if they are - and then let it ride. Fortify the border and then just plug holes from there. If there are criminals who don't register for a SSN, then they get sent back.

What am I missing? I've done my best to see the salient points, put aside emotion and rationally argue my point.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:20:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Orion_Shall_Rise:

send in the Marines to the next rally... theres half a million of em right off



Guess where more and more recruits are coming from.

The current demographic shift will have a profound impact on the future of this country. It is already a done-deal, and it is going to expand exponentially.

Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:20:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:
For those of you who are totally against this... What would you have ANY President do at this point? Round them up? Kick the doors down and go get everyone?

Do you REALLY want the .gov to acquire the kind of ability and logistics it would take to nab 12 million people who don't want to be caught? (think slippery slope, folks)




What he should do is stop giving bennies to anyone who isn't a legal resident. Then make it a felony to hire anyone who isn't a legal resident. Then give a free ride back to whatever turd world country you come from when we catch an illegal in this country.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:23:26 PM EDT
I don't care if they will be paying taxes, this is an insult to all those that struggled for years to come here legally, and to those that desperately want to come here but are trapped oversees in third world countries. The Mexicans are here to leech money from this country, and while they do, there are others suffering that really do want to come here for their freedom.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:25:09 PM EDT
Wanna make a buck on this mess. Prison management.

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=94469&p=irol-irhom
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:27:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2006 12:27:56 PM EDT by macman37]

Originally Posted By AROptics:

Originally Posted By macman37:

Originally Posted By Orion_Shall_Rise:

Originally Posted By macman37:
For those of you who are totally against this... What would you have ANY President do at this point? Round them up? Kick the doors down and go get everyone?

Do you REALLY want the .gov to acquire the kind of ability and logistics it would take to nab 12 million people who don't want to be caught? (think slippery slope, folks)

FWIW I agree we should close up the porous borders. But what are we to do now. The genie is out of the bottle.

I am genuinely curious here. I don't want illegals here either but are the consequences worth the costs...? Honest discussion, do not flame me.



send in the marines to the next rally... theres half a million of em right off



Replace "Illegal immigrants" with "gun owners" and reevaluate.

Do you REALLY want people (who would become taxpayers under this plan) out that bad?

(in all honesty I think it's high time we scrapped our current tax system and instituted a "fair tax" or better, a flat sales tax so everyone is hit according to their consumption... Whether they're legal or not, they get taxed...)



Taxpayers? Having 10 kids and collecting AFDC doesn't make you a "taxpayer". And when your husband works off the books for cash it still doesn't mean you contribute a dime to the tax base.

Illegals inspire more tax evasion than tax payment. THAT IS WHY THEY ARE SO POPULAR. Low wages and a fellow law breaker make tax evasion a snap. No health insurance, workers comp, FICA? Such a deal!




Are they all just going to come here and go on public assistance? Get real...

I'm in Michigan and a few years ago I had to have my porch replaced. I hired a contractor that had a very nice crew of Hispanic laborers (I didn't check for their green cards, sorry) fix the porch that the born-here, domestic white guy POS I originally hired to do the job had utterly screwed up...

Hard working guys. They didn't come here and drop out. While I hope they were here legally, if they were illegal, I hope these guys get their amnesty. They were the essence of what America stands for.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:38:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2006 12:48:52 PM EDT by AROptics]

Originally Posted By macman37:

Originally Posted By AROptics:

Originally Posted By macman37:

Originally Posted By Orion_Shall_Rise:

Originally Posted By macman37:
For those of you who are totally against this... What would you have ANY President do at this point? Round them up? Kick the doors down and go get everyone?

Do you REALLY want the .gov to acquire the kind of ability and logistics it would take to nab 12 million people who don't want to be caught? (think slippery slope, folks)

FWIW I agree we should close up the porous borders. But what are we to do now. The genie is out of the bottle.

I am genuinely curious here. I don't want illegals here either but are the consequences worth the costs...? Honest discussion, do not flame me.



send in the marines to the next rally... theres half a million of em right off



Replace "Illegal immigrants" with "gun owners" and reevaluate.

Do you REALLY want people (who would become taxpayers under this plan) out that bad?

(in all honesty I think it's high time we scrapped our current tax system and instituted a "fair tax" or better, a flat sales tax so everyone is hit according to their consumption... Whether they're legal or not, they get taxed...)



Taxpayers? Having 10 kids and collecting AFDC doesn't make you a "taxpayer". And when your husband works off the books for cash it still doesn't mean you contribute a dime to the tax base.

Illegals inspire more tax evasion than tax payment. THAT IS WHY THEY ARE SO POPULAR. Low wages and a fellow law breaker make tax evasion a snap. No health insurance, workers comp, FICA? Such a deal!




Are they all just going to come here and go on public assistance? Get real...

I'm in Michigan and a few years ago I had to have my porch replaced. I hired a contractor that had a very nice crew of Hispanic laborers (I didn't check for their green cards, sorry) fix the porch that the born-here, domestic white guy POS I originally hired to do the job had utterly screwed up...

Hard working guys. They didn't come here and drop out. While I hope they were here legally, if they were illegal, I hope these guys get their amnesty. They were the essence of what America stands for.



Well Sir, I was in LA and San Diego at the border itself, and in the overwhelmed hospitals and at the multi-car DUI pileups, and in South LA on "Mother's Day" (the first of every month) when they collect AFDC. And in the courtrooms where they get no time for their crimes because the jails are full. Where car insurance is rare as hen's teeth and hit and run is the only way to go. Every square inch of every wall is covered in graffiti. Where the University of California has abandoned the "racist" SAT because scores keep dropping. Where hospitals are closing. Where gated communities are the rule if you have money. I could continue.

You need an unguided tour of urban Los Angeles. Spend some time at LA County Hospital and just outside LA Central Jail. You probably won't make it back, but then again Pollyannas with their head in the sand are as real a menace as many of them.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:43:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:44:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By staraero:
Someday i'm gonna be on the news



...and it'll be me loading your mags for you as you rage on!
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:49:49 PM EDT
Anyone of authority who suggests we "round them up" is not your friend. They are just trying to set us up for failure.

The way to deal with Illegals is to make it such a PITA to be here that they leave on their own. Make them unemployable.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:53:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AROptics:

Originally Posted By macman37:

Originally Posted By AROptics:

Originally Posted By macman37:

Originally Posted By Orion_Shall_Rise:

Originally Posted By macman37:
For those of you who are totally against this... What would you have ANY President do at this point? Round them up? Kick the doors down and go get everyone?

Do you REALLY want the .gov to acquire the kind of ability and logistics it would take to nab 12 million people who don't want to be caught? (think slippery slope, folks)

FWIW I agree we should close up the porous borders. But what are we to do now. The genie is out of the bottle.

I am genuinely curious here. I don't want illegals here either but are the consequences worth the costs...? Honest discussion, do not flame me.



send in the marines to the next rally... theres half a million of em right off



Replace "Illegal immigrants" with "gun owners" and reevaluate.

Do you REALLY want people (who would become taxpayers under this plan) out that bad?

(in all honesty I think it's high time we scrapped our current tax system and instituted a "fair tax" or better, a flat sales tax so everyone is hit according to their consumption... Whether they're legal or not, they get taxed...)



Taxpayers? Having 10 kids and collecting AFDC doesn't make you a "taxpayer". And when your husband works off the books for cash it still doesn't mean you contribute a dime to the tax base.

Illegals inspire more tax evasion than tax payment. THAT IS WHY THEY ARE SO POPULAR. Low wages and a fellow law breaker make tax evasion a snap. No health insurance, workers comp, FICA? Such a deal!




Are they all just going to come here and go on public assistance? Get real...

I'm in Michigan and a few years ago I had to have my porch replaced. I hired a contractor that had a very nice crew of Hispanic laborers (I didn't check for their green cards, sorry) fix the porch that the born-here, domestic white guy POS I originally hired to do the job had utterly screwed up...

Hard working guys. They didn't come here and drop out. While I hope they were here legally, if they were illegal, I hope these guys get their amnesty. They were the essence of what America stands for.



Well Sir, I was in LA and San Diego at the border itself, and in the overwhelmed hospitals and at the multi-car DUI pileups, and in South LA on "Mother's Day" (the first of every month) when they collect AFDC. And in the courtrooms where they get no time for their crimes because the jails are full. Where car insurance is rare as hen's teeth and hit and run is the only way to go. Every square inch of every wall is covered in grafitti. Where the University of California has abandoned the "racist" SAT because scores keep dropping. Where hospitals are closing. Where gated communities are the rule if you have money. I could continue.

You need an unguided tour of urban Los Angeles. Spend some time at LA County Hospital and just outside LA Central Jail. You probably won't make it back, but then again Pollyannas with their head in the sand are as real a menace as many of them.



AROptics, I totally agree. How about Houston? I used to be a DJ at a rock station in Houston, KLOL FM. The station was in operation for 35 years. It started losing money last year. Now it's gone. The new format is Spanglish, and the station motto is "Latino and Proud".
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:53:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 1:00:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2006 1:01:02 PM EDT by gmcem50]

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By macman37:
For those of you who are totally against this... What would you have ANY President do at this point? Round them up? Kick the doors down and go get everyone?


Increase the fines for employing illegal immigrants 10-fold.

Hire 1,000 more immigration officials to go to employers and enforce those laws.

Hire 2,000 more border patrol agents per year, give them staff and material support and allow them to PURSUE illegal aliens seen crossing the border. (did you know BP are not allowed to chase illegals in vehicles?)

Allow local police the authority to go after and arrest people violating immigration laws.

Require proof of citizenship in order to vote in all federal elections.

Stop offering free education, non-emergency medical care, housing subsidies and mortgage-incentives to illegal immigrants.

Stop harrassing and threatening law-abiding citizens like the Minutemen and branding them as "vigilantes".

REMOVE THE REASONS THEY COME HERE AND THEY'LL STOP COMING!


What's so hard about that?



AMEN BROTHER! I humbly bow in the presence of your greatness. I couldn't have said it better myself.
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