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Posted: 3/26/2006 3:43:56 PM EDT
can I use it in a reactive target somehow?

not looking to make a bomb, but lock this if you feel it is inappropriate
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 3:45:45 PM EDT
Yes, I would like to be staring at magnesium through an optical device with magnification as it reacts and burns.

This seems to me like an excellent way to cause a memorable reactive target, as no one is ever going to forget about what made them go BLIND!
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 3:45:46 PM EDT
Just burn it and work on your tan at night.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 3:50:01 PM EDT
interesting point, did not know that.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 3:59:18 PM EDT
It would be extremely helpful to know what the particle/mesh size is of the magnesium. If it is coarse, there isn't much you can do with it as far as reactive targets ie. magnesium ribbon vs. #1000 mesh powder. How large is this 'bag'?
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 4:02:16 PM EDT
Get some ammonium nitrate and rubber binder, make rocket fuel

www.space-rockets.com/catalog.html

Fun fun fun
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 4:03:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Katana16j:
Yes, I would like to be staring at magnesium through an optical device with magnification as it reacts and burns.

This seems to me like an excellent way to cause a memorable reactive target, as no one is ever going to forget about what made them go BLIND!



would it ignite if you just shot it, or would you need something else?
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 4:05:26 PM EDT
Won't ignite unless you light it on fire.

Personally, I would get some aluminum powder, Iron oxide and make some thermite. Mix in the magnesium to see if it ignites better.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 4:05:47 PM EDT
Got a couple upper trunions from a KingAir 90 main gear. I had 3 but gave one to a co-worker who threw it in a camp fire. He said it took along time to light, but when it did, it burned for over a hour.

I don't know what would happen if it was shot.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 4:06:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PromptCritical:
Won't ignite unless you light it on fire.

Personally, I would get some aluminum powder, Iron oxide and make some thermite. Mix in the magnesium to see if it ignites better.



and doesnt it take a hotter fire than a regular lighter can produce?
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 4:08:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:

Originally Posted By PromptCritical:
Won't ignite unless you light it on fire.

Personally, I would get some aluminum powder, Iron oxide and make some thermite. Mix in the magnesium to see if it ignites better.



and doesnt it take a hotter fire than a regular lighter can produce?



Just hold a Zippo or Bic to the magnesium ribbon for ten to twenty seconds, should light. If that doesn't work, upgrade to butane.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 4:20:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2006 4:21:13 PM EDT by C-4]

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:

Originally Posted By PromptCritical:
Won't ignite unless you light it on fire.

Personally, I would get some aluminum powder, Iron oxide and make some thermite. Mix in the magnesium to see if it ignites better.



and doesnt it take a hotter fire than a regular lighter can produce?



One of the best ways to ignite thermite is with burning magnesium ribbon. Magnesium will melt at 1202F and burns with a temperature of approximately 2500F. So it takes a temperature far higher than what a lighter can produce, but you can easily melt the magnesium ribbon with a lighter.

Alternatively, pyrotechnic mixtures (ie. 10% magnesium powder #325 mesh size, 87% barium peroxide, 3% shellac as binder) can be ignited with a black powder fuse, and then the magnesium mixture will ignite and burn more than hot enough to ignite the thermite (iron oxide/aluminum powder mixture).

Again, not knowing the particle size of the magnesium makes any advice theoretical.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 4:40:46 PM EDT
its pretty fine, like glitter
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 4:58:42 PM EDT
In my youth I came into some ribbon. I was able to light it with my Zippo.
Milton
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 5:03:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 5:09:45 PM EDT
how about shooting it with an incindery round
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 5:12:24 PM EDT
throw it in a bucket of water in the kitchen.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 5:21:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By calimove:
how about shooting it with an incindery round



probably not a long enough exposure to the heat.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 5:22:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Schulze:
throw it in a bucket of water in the kitchen.



Magnesium will not react with water like Sodium or Potassium metal. But as you go down the list of metals in the magnesium family, they do get more reactive. For instance, calcium metal, which is next on the list, will slowly bubble producing calcium hydroxide and hydrogen gas. But it is very slow and doesn't produce enough heat to ignite the hydrogen as in the case of sodium or potassium metal. Barium metal, near the bottom of the magnesium family list, will actually ignite in air if scraped with a knife.

Now if you wet very fine magnesium powder (ie. 1000 mesh), then it becomes dangerously sensitive and, depending on the circumstances/conditions, may even detonate.

Bulk magnesium is actually quite chemically resistant to water because it has a very tough but extremely thin protective layer of magnesium oxide.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 5:27:18 PM EDT
Class D fires kick ass!
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 5:32:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SubnetMask:
Class D fires kick ass!



Uh Oh, my extinguisher only goes to C! hock.gif
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 5:34:30 PM EDT
Just save it for the campfire.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 5:36:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By C-4:

Originally Posted By Schulze:
throw it in a bucket of water in the kitchen.



Magnesium will not react with water like Sodium or Potassium metal. But as you go down the list of metals in the magnesium family, they do get more reactive. For instance, calcium metal, which is next on the list, will slowly bubble producing calcium hydroxide and hydrogen gas. But it is very slow and doesn't produce enough heat to ignite the hydrogen as in the case of sodium or potassium metal. Barium metal, near the bottom of the magnesium family list, will actually ignite in air if scraped with a knife.

Now if you wet very fine magnesium powder (ie. 1000 mesh), then it becomes dangerously sensitive and, depending on the circumstances/conditions, may even detonate.

Bulk magnesium is actually quite chemically resistant to water because it has a very tough but extremely thin protective layer of magnesium oxide.



I think what he's talking about it putting water onto a magnesium-fueled fire. It's so hot, it splits water into oxygen and hydrogen. More fuel! Ka boom!
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 5:40:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By christ0ph:
its pretty fine, like glitter



So that would be about #100 mesh. Just to give you a mental framework, finer #325 mesh is the size used for tracer powders. Even finer #1000 mesh is used with ammonium nitrate + binder for composite rocket propellants. #100 mesh is not ideal for making thermite ignitors, but it can be done. Mix 10% of the magnesium with 90% barium peroxide. If you place a small (thimble) sized pile on some thermite, you can ignite it with black powder fuse. The smaller the pile, the more difficult to ignite. It is preferable to use #325 mesh size.

Another interesting mix is about 10% (by weight) of #100 mesh magnesium powder and finely powdered silver nitrate (AgNO3). Be careful to mix small amounts (a few grains). If you allow a drop of water to fall on it, it will ignite in a flash. Not an explosion. The water allows for the very exothermic metathetical exchange of magnesium with silver. So the magnesium becomes Mg+2 and the silver becomes metallic silver. It is so exothermic that the heat generated causes the rest of the pile to ignite, the magnesium acting as the fuel and the nitrate acting as the oxidizer. Never store it. Use it all up in one sitting.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 5:45:31 PM EDT
what is the mixture and ingredents (SP?) thermite?


sorry im very tired
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 5:47:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SubnetMask:
Class D fires kick ass!



Years ago I was aquainted with a firefighter who rolled to a volkswagen engine fire. His Captain said go ahead and put water on it.

Ooookay.

50 feet away it still put holes in his turnouts.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 5:49:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By raven:
I think what he's talking about it putting water onto a magnesium-fueled fire. It's so hot, it splits water into oxygen and hydrogen. More fuel! Ka boom!



Oh, that's what he meant. Another neat experiment is to 'fill' a beaker with carbon dioxide by 'pouring' it in. It is heavier than air so easy to do. If you ignite magnesium ribbon and lower it into the carbon dioxide, it will keep burning (although less vigorously), splitting the oxygen away from the CO2 leaving free carbon in its wake. Cool experiment.

Probably the only thing more spectacular than a magnesium/water fire is an aluminum/liquid fluoring fire. In his book Ignition: An Informal History of Liquid Rocket Propellants (ISBN: 0813507251), John D. Clark describes a bunch of other interesting oxidizer/fuel combinations.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 5:51:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By silveradoguy17:
what is the mixture and ingredents (SP?) thermite?


sorry im very tired



3 parts (by weight) iron oxide (red or black) to 2 parts aluminum powder.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 5:53:06 PM EDT
ok, you lost me, by weight? help a brother out......

so say i want to make 5 pounds, what would that be?
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 5:58:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By silveradoguy17:
ok, you lost me, by weight? help a brother out......

so say i want to make 5 pounds, what would that be?



2 lbs. aluminum powder, 3 lbs. iron oxide. IIRC, thermite grenades contain about 1 1/2 pounds of thermite. I would start with 1/4 to 1/2 pound and work with that first. Make sure you have dry sand underneath. You don't want molten iron falling on just anything.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 6:04:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2006 6:06:01 PM EDT by USGI_45]
Me and a friend used to light small pieces of Magnesium in Our Chemistry Class with the Bunson Burner. Also one time The Metals Teacher Placed a Huge Piece of Magnesium into the molten Aluminum in the Casting area. I think it was a 5 pound chunk. The school had to be evacuated and the FD came in. He was really lucky to not be Hurt. He told that Flames went all the way to the ceiling. It scorched the wall all the way up
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 6:05:05 PM EDT
ok, where do i get alum powder and iron oxide?
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 6:09:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2006 6:11:53 PM EDT by 9245]

Originally Posted By TC6969:

Originally Posted By miltonshooter:
In my youth I came into some ribbon. I was able to light it with my Zippo.
Milton



Back in the days when you could, we lit some off in science class with the teachers Zippo.

You could do a lot of things in 1965 that would get you arrested today.



Actually one of my teachers lit a magnesium ribbon in class, and that was in the early to mid 90s....

Another of my teachers made a big purple smoke bomb with aluminum powder, and iodine, a "snake" with Sulphuric Acid and suger, added water to Sulphuric acid, and not the other way around, and accidently filled the equipment room with Chlorine gas, and annother teacher mixed Sulphuric Acid with Lye I think to make salt, then made us eat it....
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 6:10:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By silveradoguy17:
ok, where do i get alum powder and iron oxide?



unitednuclear.com/chem.htm
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 6:16:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By C-4:

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:

Originally Posted By PromptCritical:
Won't ignite unless you light it on fire.

Personally, I would get some aluminum powder, Iron oxide and make some thermite. Mix in the magnesium to see if it ignites better.



and doesnt it take a hotter fire than a regular lighter can produce?



One of the best ways to ignite thermite is with burning magnesium ribbon. Magnesium will melt at 1202F and burns with a temperature of approximately 2500F. So it takes a temperature far higher than what a lighter can produce, but you can easily melt the magnesium ribbon with a lighter.
Alternatively, pyrotechnic mixtures (ie. 10% magnesium powder #325 mesh size, 87% barium peroxide, 3% shellac as binder) can be ignited with a black powder fuse, and then the magnesium mixture will ignite and burn more than hot enough to ignite the thermite (iron oxide/aluminum powder mixture).

Again, not knowing the particle size of the magnesium makes any advice theoretical.




A magnesium firestarter lights with a spark.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 6:21:45 PM EDT
wouldnt making thermite be consisdered construction of a destuctive device?
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 6:22:14 PM EDT
is thermite legal for a regular joe to purchase?

they have it for sale on there
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 6:32:28 PM EDT
comeon someones gotta know
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 6:36:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2006 6:38:09 PM EDT by blacklisted]

Originally Posted By TC6969:

Originally Posted By miltonshooter:
In my youth I came into some ribbon. I was able to light it with my Zippo.
Milton



Back in the days when you could, we lit some off in science class with the teachers Zippo.

You could do a lot of things in 1965 that would get you arrested today.



I did the same thing in 2002 in 10th grade chemistry. Only I brought a pocket torch, and the teacher thought it was neat and asked where she could find one.

The next day, I had it out and a "campus monitor" took it away. I told her it was for Chemistry, we went to the class, and the teacher bailed me out.

The teacher was just a big of a pyro as I am.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 2:55:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2006 2:58:33 PM EDT by C-4]

Originally Posted By ar15_rifleman:

Originally Posted By C-4:

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:

Originally Posted By PromptCritical:
Won't ignite unless you light it on fire.

Personally, I would get some aluminum powder, Iron oxide and make some thermite. Mix in the magnesium to see if it ignites better.



and doesnt it take a hotter fire than a regular lighter can produce?



One of the best ways to ignite thermite is with burning magnesium ribbon. Magnesium will melt at 1202F and burns with a temperature of approximately 2500F. So it takes a temperature far higher than what a lighter can produce, but you can easily melt the magnesium ribbon with a lighter.
Alternatively, pyrotechnic mixtures (ie. 10% magnesium powder #325 mesh size, 87% barium peroxide, 3% shellac as binder) can be ignited with a black powder fuse, and then the magnesium mixture will ignite and burn more than hot enough to ignite the thermite (iron oxide/aluminum powder mixture).

Again, not knowing the particle size of the magnesium makes any advice theoretical.




A magnesium firestarter lights with a spark.



No flame whatsoever intended, ar15_rifleman, but allow me to explain what is actually occurring with a magnesium starter so that you will understand why it is not BS.

A magnesium starter is made of two parts: magnesium body and a 'flint' striker.

Let's start with the magnesium body. This is made of relatively pure magnesium metal that is easy to scrape to produce flakes and thin 'ribbons' of magnesium metal. The smaller the pieces, the more easily the magnesium will ignite from heat. The melting point of magnesium is 1202F and the metal will ignite in air about 20 degrees above its melting point. You may not believe this, but this is a fact of both magnesium's chemical properties and thermodynamics.

The 'flint' striker is not flint at all but rather an alloy of 80% misch metal, a mechanically pyrophoric alloy of cerium and a mixture of several rare-earth metals. Misch metal will ignite when exposed to heat and friction, ie. when scraped. Because misch metal is very soft, the other 20% of the 'flint' is iron metal. The misch metal/iron alloy is still soft enough to scrape with a knife and the flaked off pieces ignite from the little heat produced by the friction. Misch metal ignites at only a few hundred of degrees Farenheit. The pieces will burn at temperatures well above 1202F, the melting point of magnesium.

Incidentally, the misch metal/iron alloy is the same as used in butane and other lighter flints.

Again, no flame, but you just don't understand how a magnesium starter works. Now you do.

As a side note, a neat experiment that you can perform, with goggles, is to heat a lighter flint with a propane torch (a lighter will work as well) while holding it with a pair of pliers. Once you get a good dull red color, flick the flint against a hard surface (pavement, concrete). It will disintegrate in a shower of sparks (hence the goggles).

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