Quoted: Unfortunately the labels have been made to be relevant. When a str8 man rapes a 11yr old girl he's a pedophile. When a gay man rapes an 11yr old boy he's a homosexual pedophile, and then used to sell the idea that most homosexuals are pedophiles. To me pedophiles are sick people who need to be kept away for children.

Sorry, SS, but if you have sex with a person of the same gender, it's a HOMOSEXUAL act. Period. End of story.

So if a man has sex with an underaged boy, it is homosexual pedophilia. Pretty accurate description in my eyes.

And if that man also happens to be married, he is STILL a homosexual pedophile.

And all of those priests who molested alterboys, and other boys, were homosexual pedophiles.

If you have sex with a person of the same gender, you are a homosexual. And that includes the so called lipstick lesbians. If they did not have homosexual tendencies, they wouldn't be having sex with other women.

SO, once again, gays make up 100% of same sex pedophiles.

NO, but hatred and ignorance is.

Damn Belloc, I still see you use the same reliable souces.

NARTH: http://www.narth.com/

National Association for the Research and Treatment of Homosexuality

If you think that gays can be made straight...you are not capable of rational thought.

Gays can not be made straight anymore than someone that is straight can be made gay.  

Do a little research on the man behind NARTH and you will see why he deserves ridicule.

I will not participate in this discussion any more, because I already know how it will go.  

The whole concept of categorizing someone as a "heterosexual" or "homosexual" or whatever has only limited usefulness.  After all, we're talking about behavior and not skin color, and nothing prevents someone from moving from one category to another, or defying the categorization all together.  And I really haven't seen much in the way of persuasive statistics.  

The relevant question before the house is whether homosexual sex with legal age partners is in any way correlated with male/male pedophilia.  If they really wanted to do a good study, they'd get a representative pool of those men who have been convicted or otherwise found to have molested a boy.  Of those men, examine their sexual activity prior to and concurrent with their period of molestation.  You'd be looking for prior and/or concurrent acts of homosexual sex with legal age partners which is significantly higher than that of the population as a whole.  If there was such a correlation, and it was significant to two sigma, then you would have a basis to at least be concerned that homosexual behavior is correlated with male/male pedophilia.  Correlation is not causation, and obviously further study would be needed.

 

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This lead Dr. Carole Jenny and her colleagues[14] to review 269 medical records of Denver-area children who were sexually abused by adults. Of the 50 male children, 37 (74%) were molested by a man who had been in a heterosexual relationship with the child’s relative. Three were molested by women, five were molested by both parents, and three others were molested by non-relatives. Only one perpetrator could be identified as being possibly homosexual in his adult behavior. Lets break these numbers down. 37 molested by men alone. 5 molested by men and women. 3 molested by women. 5 unknown. Whether you want to label someone as "heterosexual" or "homosexual" or simply "pedophile," the numbers make it clear that it is MEN that you have to worry about.  The labels are irrelevant.   Unfortunately the labels have been made to be relevant. When a str8 man rapes a 11yr old girl he's a pedophile. When a gay man rapes an 11yr old boy he's a homosexual pedophile, and then used to sell the idea that most homosexuals are pedophiles. To me pedophiles are sick people who need to be kept away for children. And when a white man kills a black man, it's automatically assumed and touted as racist.  What's your point?  Labels always exist in the eyes of the ignorant.  Exposing their folly furthers their agenda, not yours and not mine. I don't know how old you are, but you have MUCH to learn about life and not allowing the purported ramblings of the uninformed to eat at you.  I'm white, Christian, single, and straight.  That makes ME the minority, not you, but you're the one complaining? I was being objectionable as anyone can see from my posts, but I am beginning to wonder if my efforts were supporting a 14-year old with an ulterior agenda.  Be real, because life is real.  Not everything is so blown out of proportion it requires a national emergency, and homosexuals are no different.  Because I am Christian do you lump me with the pedophile priests? I am beginning to question why I tried to approach this objectively - you can be your own worst enemy at times, especially by making mountains out of molehills.  What's your REAL agenda here, SS?

And where did I lump you in with anybody? And where have I attacked Christians?, as a matter of fact I'm on record on this board of defending Christains. Please show me where I have attacked or blamed you or any other. Take a look at Belloc's post above.........and tell me I'm the one making  "mountains out of molehill"

Quoted: Damn Belloc, I still see you use the same reliable souces. NARTH: http://www.narth.com/ National Association for the Research and Treatment of Homosexuality If you think that gays can be made straight...you are not capable of rational thought. Gays can not be made straight anymore than someone that is straight can be made gay.

How 'bout this, the person most responsible for removing homsexuality from the list of disorders in the 1970 has now, after 30+ more years of research, said that in fact homosexual orientation can be changed.
But don't let a little science keep you from making an idiot out of yourself.

Your logic just doesn't jive unless you can show that lesbians also molest little girls all the time.  The common factor is MEN, not orientation.

Quoted: Quoted: Way to go!!   When there are no facts to support your position, you can always play the race card!! LOL facts? I'm not the one playing chicken little over gays.

SO, you don't think it's a problem to push the gay agenda at schools? How about the school in Mass. that had a pre-op transexual talk about it to a class of elementry school kids? You think that that is okay? Or forcing kids to read "Heather has two mommies" or "Daddy's Roommate?

Quoted: Your logic just doesn't jive unless you can show that lesbians also molest little girls all the time.  The common factor is MEN, not orientation.

Wrong.

The common thread between homosexuality and homesexual pedophilia is homosexuality.

Quoted: Quoted: Your logic just doesn't jive unless you can show that lesbians also molest little girls all the time.  The common factor is MEN, not orientation. Wrong. The common thread between homosexuality and homesexual pedophilia is homosexuality.

Uh ok and the common thread between heterosexuality and heterosexual pedophilia is heterosexuality.  You really are out of gas I guess.

Quoted: SO, you don't think it's a problem to push the gay agenda at schools? How about the school in Mass. that had a pre-op transexual talk about it to a class of elementry school kids? You think that that is okay? Or forcing kids to read "Heather has two mommies" or "Daddy's Roommate?

No I don't think that's right but neither is the stuff the conservatives try to put in kids' heads either.  Both extremists need to stay away and let people think for themselves.

But that is not really relevant to this discussion.

Hydguy: you seem to be arguing semantics without having really gotten the article's point.

There is a very big difference between "ohmigawd" gay dude who wears pink shirts, hangs out with all the girls and gets his nails done up pretty and...

-A priest who molests altar boys in church
-A big 300 lb. prison guy who gets blowjobs from little weaklings thrown in jail for downloading MP3s.

The point of this article, is that many of the child molestors would be considered straight by society and themselves DESPITE their deviant behavior. You're just arguing labels and semantics when you say that these people are also gay because of what they do. That's a faulty line of reasoning at best.

Does working on cars, wearing pants and buying guns make me a man? Because if that's all it is, then there are a lot of bull dykes with prosthetics hanging around who do the same and I highly doubt you'd consider them men.

Quoted: Quoted: Damn Belloc, I still see you use the same reliable souces. NARTH: http://www.narth.com/ National Association for the Research and Treatment of Homosexuality If you think that gays can be made straight...you are not capable of rational thought. Gays can not be made straight anymore than someone that is straight can be made gay.   How 'bout this, the person most responsible for removing homsexuality from the list of disorders in the 1970 has now, after 30+ more years of research, said that in fact homosexual orientation can be changed. But don't let a little science keep you from making an idiot out of yourself.

Oh do you mean this guy Belloc?

Dr. Robert Spitzer, who was involved in the original declassification of homosexuality as a mental disorder, presented a paper on reparative therapy at the APA annual convention. This paper was widely reported by proponents of reparative therapy as evidence of success of the therapy. However, it is worth bearing in mind that Spitzer did not interview a cross-section of those who had entered into such therapy: rather, most of the respondents had been contacted through the 'ex-gay' groups themselves, and had almost certainly been chosen because they claimed to be 'successes'. Many were employed as counsellors or group leaders by 'ex-gay' groups. At the most charitable, therefore, Spitzer was merely being asked to confirm the positive reports being given by a relatively small number of 'ex-gays'.

In his paper he reported that he had found that 66% of the men and 44% of the women had achieved "good heterosexual functioning" through interventions. Advocates of reparative therapy saw this as the first step towards official acceptance and the legitimisation of reparative therapy. Opponents leveled the similar criticisms at Spitzer's paper: that it relied upon samples selected by reparative therapists themselves, that proper random samplings were not used, small samplings were used (143 men and 57 women), that the subjects appeared to be ex-gay advocates who may have been biased in favor of reparative therapies, and that no follow-up study had been carried out to ascertain the long-term success. Similarly, they pointed to the fact that 60% of participants had previously experienced attraction to both sexes. Spitzer himself played down the results of his own paper, saying that the number of homosexuals who could successfully become heterosexual was likely to be "pretty low" and conceded that the study's participants were "unusually religious."[6] A similar paper presented by Dr. Ariel Shidlo and Dr. Michael Schroeder, which has since been published for peer review, presented much lower success rates.

Spitzer's study was later criticized for its methods. In his study, 66 percent of his sample were referrals from advocates of reparative therapy and 78 percent of his sample spoke favorably of reparative therapy themselves. The study relied on 45-minute self-reported telephone interviews with the participants that couldn't be checked for reliability and were open to the Social desirability bias that may result from many participants being connected with reparative therapy advocates. In addition, only 40% of his sample reported being exclusively attracted to same-sex adults before doing the therapy, while the rest reported being bisexual. Spitzer, however, said the study may not apply to the LGBT population at large. He conceded that the number of people who could convert from homosexual to heterosexual orientation was likely to be "pretty low" and that most of the participants in his study were "unusually religious.

Quoted: Your logic just doesn't jive unless you can show that lesbians also molest little girls all the time.  The common factor is MEN, not orientation.

Sorry, are you trying to be stupid? One has nothing to do with the other. And, please use your utmost strenght to reply with little more than a "yuh-uh".

Quoted: He conceded that the number of people who could convert from homosexual to heterosexual orientation was likely to be "pretty low" and that most of the participants in his study were "unusually religious.

Of course.

Only God can change a sinful heart.

Quoted: Quoted: He conceded that the number of people who could convert from homosexual to heterosexual orientation was likely to be "pretty low" and that most of the participants in his study were "unusually religious. Of course. Only God can change a sinful heart.

And from a religious point of view I agree with you.....but they [homosexuals] didn't change, their just celibite. And if they are happy being celibite then more power to them.

Yes, that's him. And here is what else he said:
"the mental health professionals should stop moving in the direction of banning therapy that has, as a goal, a change in sexual orientation."

And as for the reason for removing it from mental disorders in the first place:
"What most people are not aware of is that when a group from the American Psychiatric Association first proposed the removal of homosexuality from the DSM in 1973, it was very clearly laid out in the "protocol" that the move was purely in response to the designation of "stigma" that those who identified themselves as homosexual claimed that they suffered as a consequence of "homosexuality" being included as a psychiatric disorder.
It was stated very clearly that the proposed removal was not intended to make any scientific statement about homosexuality per se."
www.narth.com/docs/spitzerct.html




And let's not forget these little issues:
Gay-Affirming Psychologists Propose Redefining Child Sexual Abuse
www.narth.com/docs/canadian.html

The problem of pedophilia
www.narth.com/docs/pedophNEW.html

Pedophiles Argue Their Case
in the Journal of Homosexuality
www.narth.com/docs/arguecase.html


The Gay Report
www.narth.com/docs/reporton.html


The Gay Report was unique in that for the first time society was permitted a glimpse into the gay subculture, to see if the rumors, stories and hearsay that had persisted for so long were true. In many cases, it appears, they were.

Accusations of promiscuity had long been levelled at the gay community. As Jay and Young's research indicates, these fears were justified. According to the study, 35% of respondents admitted to having had 100 or more different sexual partners throughout their lives (p.249); 18% admitted to having had between seven and 60 such partners in the previous month alone (p. 248), and 18% to having had three or more in the previous week (p. 248). 38% said the longest relationship they had ever had did not last longer than a year (p. 340). For lesbians the average relationship lasted 38 months (p. 302).

In answer to the question "how often do you go home to have sex with someone you have just met?" a total of 50% answered under the "always," "very frequently" or "somewhat frequently category" (p. 251). Jay and Young sum up, "Clearly, then, the one-night stand is within the experience of an overwhelming majority of gay men" (p. 252).

Furthermore, 77% of respondents had taken part in "threesomes" at least once, while 59% had taken part in orgies or group sex (p. 587). 38% had partaken of sadomasochistic practices at least once and 23% had practiced urination in association with sex (p. 555). 24% admitted to having been paid for sex (p. 260).

Nor are gay leaders shy to publicize their feelings in this regard. In the classic gay work Gay Manifesto, author Carl Wittman said that sadomasochism, "when consensual can be described as a highly artistic endeavor, a ballet the constraints of which are the thresholds of pain and pleasure" (cited on p. 554). Celebrated gay poet Allen Ginsberg commented favorably on orgies that, "It's an important human experience to relate to yourself and others as a hunk of meat sometimes" (pgs. 589-590), and referred to the orgy as "one holy divine yoga of losing ego" (590).

Curiously, Jay and Young appear to have little notion that the above constitutes "promiscuity." According to them, "Where does one draw the line and say that certain people have been promiscuous, and others have not? What value judgment is implied by the term 'promiscuous'? These questions are impossible to answer because they depend on subjective attitudes" (p. 249).

They cite gay respondents as saying that, "Promiscuity is a heterosexual concept used to attack us..."



And also from the previous page:
"The Journal of Homosexuality recently published a special double-issue entitled, "Male Intergenerational Intimacy," containing many articles portraying sex between men and minor boys as loving relationships. One article said parents should look upon the pedophile who loves their son "not as a rival or competitor, not as a theft of their property, but as a partner in the boy's upbringing, someone to be welcomed into their home."
In 1995 the homosexual magazine "Guide" said, "We can be proud that the gay movement has been home to the few voices who have had the courage to say out loud that children are naturally sexual" and "deserve the right to sexual expression with whoever they choose. …" The article went on to say: "Instead of fearing being labeled pedophiles, we must proudly proclaim that sex is good, including children's sexuality."

Perhaps you would like to comment on these bits of information.

As if libtards aren't bad enough... we need a new phrase for you guys. Contards will have to do for now.

"Are Gays A Threat To Our Children?"


I guess that depends on the example you want set for your children.

Quoted: Yes, that's him. And here is what else he said: "the mental health professionals should stop moving in the direction of banning therapy that has, as a goal, a change in sexual orientation." And as for the reason for removing it from mental disorders in the first place: "What most people are not aware of is that when a group from the American Psychiatric Association first proposed the removal of homosexuality from the DSM in 1973, it was very clearly laid out in the "protocol" that the move was purely in response to the designation of "stigma" that those who identified themselves as homosexual claimed that they suffered as a consequence of "homosexuality" being included as a psychiatric disorder. It was stated very clearly that the proposed removal was not intended to make any scientific statement about homosexuality per se." www.narth.com/docs/spitzerct.html And let's not forget these little issues: Gay-Affirming Psychologists Propose Redefining Child Sexual Abuse www.narth.com/docs/canadian.html The problem of pedophilia www.narth.com/docs/pedophNEW.html Pedophiles Argue Their Case in the Journal of Homosexuality www.narth.com/docs/arguecase.html The Gay Report www.narth.com/docs/reporton.html The Gay Report was unique in that for the first time society was permitted a glimpse into the gay subculture, to see if the rumors, stories and hearsay that had persisted for so long were true. In many cases, it appears, they were. Accusations of promiscuity had long been levelled at the gay community. As Jay and Young's research indicates, these fears were justified. According to the study, 35% of respondents admitted to having had 100 or more different sexual partners throughout their lives (p.249); 18% admitted to having had between seven and 60 such partners in the previous month alone (p. 248), and 18% to having had three or more in the previous week (p. 248). 38% said the longest relationship they had ever had did not last longer than a year (p. 340). For lesbians the average relationship lasted 38 months (p. 302). In answer to the question "how often do you go home to have sex with someone you have just met?" a total of 50% answered under the "always," "very frequently" or "somewhat frequently category" (p. 251). Jay and Young sum up, "Clearly, then, the one-night stand is within the experience of an overwhelming majority of gay men" (p. 252). Furthermore, 77% of respondents had taken part in "threesomes" at least once, while 59% had taken part in orgies or group sex (p. 587). 38% had partaken of sadomasochistic practices at least once and 23% had practiced urination in association with sex (p. 555). 24% admitted to having been paid for sex (p. 260). Nor are gay leaders shy to publicize their feelings in this regard. In the classic gay work Gay Manifesto, author Carl Wittman said that sadomasochism, "when consensual can be described as a highly artistic endeavor, a ballet the constraints of which are the thresholds of pain and pleasure" (cited on p. 554). Celebrated gay poet Allen Ginsberg commented favorably on orgies that, "It's an important human experience to relate to yourself and others as a hunk of meat sometimes" (pgs. 589-590), and referred to the orgy as "one holy divine yoga of losing ego" (590). Curiously, Jay and Young appear to have little notion that the above constitutes "promiscuity." According to them, "Where does one draw the line and say that certain people have been promiscuous, and others have not? What value judgment is implied by the term 'promiscuous'? These questions are impossible to answer because they depend on subjective attitudes" (p. 249). They cite gay respondents as saying that, "Promiscuity is a heterosexual concept used to attack us..." And also from the previous page: "The Journal of Homosexuality recently published a special double-issue entitled, "Male Intergenerational Intimacy," containing many articles portraying sex between men and minor boys as loving relationships. One article said parents should look upon the pedophile who loves their son "not as a rival or competitor, not as a theft of their property, but as a partner in the boy's upbringing, someone to be welcomed into their home." In 1995 the homosexual magazine "Guide" said, "We can be proud that the gay movement has been home to the few voices who have had the courage to say out loud that children are naturally sexual" and "deserve the right to sexual expression with whoever they choose. …" The article went on to say: "Instead of fearing being labeled pedophiles, we must proudly proclaim that sex is good, including children's sexuality." Perhaps you would like to comment on these bits of information.

1. what some "gay writer" says and what I think are two differnent things.....stop lumping all of us together.
2. NARTH is a antigay group......And their "facts" rate right up there with VPC and Brady Foundation.

Quoted: Hydguy: you seem to be arguing semantics without having really gotten the article's point. There is a very big difference between "ohmigawd" gay dude who wears pink shirts, hangs out with all the girls and gets his nails done up pretty and... -A priest who molests altar boys in church -A big 300 lb. prison guy who gets blowjobs from little weaklings thrown in jail for downloading MP3s. The point of this article, is that many of the child molestors would be considered straight by society and themselves DESPITE their deviant behavior. You're just arguing labels and semantics when you say that these people are also gay because of what they do. That's a faulty line of reasoning at best. Does working on cars, wearing pants and buying guns make me a man? Because if that's all it is, then there are a lot of bull dykes with prosthetics hanging around who do the same and I highly doubt you'd consider them men.

YOu seem to miss the point: Homosexual behavior is having sex with a person of the same gender. Age is irrelevant. The fact that a man is having sex with another male is homosexuality.

If you are a man who is married, but you molest a young boy, you are STILL practicing homosexuality, in addition to pedophillia.

YOu people just can't seem to fathom that homosexuality is an act, and a choice. As is pedophillia.

You keep making excuses for the gay agenda all you want. THe truth is that all men convicted of pedophillia with boys are homosexuals. Call it repressed if it makes you feel better, but it is STILL HOMOSEXUALITY.

And homosexuals will always be a threat to children, just a pedophiles who prey on opposite sex children are.

Quoted: Quoted: Damn Belloc, I still see you use the same reliable souces. NARTH: http://www.narth.com/ National Association for the Research and Treatment of Homosexuality If you think that gays can be made straight...you are not capable of rational thought. Gays can not be made straight anymore than someone that is straight can be made gay.   How 'bout this, the person most responsible for removing homsexuality from the list of disorders in the 1970 has now, after 30+ more years of research, said that in fact homosexual orientation can be changed. But don't let a little science keep you from making an idiot out of yourself.

I don't see 90+% of scientists agreeing with him.

Quoted: Quoted: Yes, that's him. And here is what else he said: "the mental health professionals should stop moving in the direction of banning therapy that has, as a goal, a change in sexual orientation." And as for the reason for removing it from mental disorders in the first place: "What most people are not aware of is that when a group from the American Psychiatric Association first proposed the removal of homosexuality from the DSM in 1973, it was very clearly laid out in the "protocol" that the move was purely in response to the designation of "stigma" that those who identified themselves as homosexual claimed that they suffered as a consequence of "homosexuality" being included as a psychiatric disorder. It was stated very clearly that the proposed removal was not intended to make any scientific statement about homosexuality per se." www.narth.com/docs/spitzerct.html And let's not forget these little issues: Gay-Affirming Psychologists Propose Redefining Child Sexual Abuse www.narth.com/docs/canadian.html The problem of pedophilia www.narth.com/docs/pedophNEW.html Pedophiles Argue Their Case in the Journal of Homosexuality www.narth.com/docs/arguecase.html The Gay Report www.narth.com/docs/reporton.html The Gay Report was unique in that for the first time society was permitted a glimpse into the gay subculture, to see if the rumors, stories and hearsay that had persisted for so long were true. In many cases, it appears, they were. Accusations of promiscuity had long been levelled at the gay community. As Jay and Young's research indicates, these fears were justified. According to the study, 35% of respondents admitted to having had 100 or more different sexual partners throughout their lives (p.249); 18% admitted to having had between seven and 60 such partners in the previous month alone (p. 248), and 18% to having had three or more in the previous week (p. 248). 38% said the longest relationship they had ever had did not last longer than a year (p. 340). For lesbians the average relationship lasted 38 months (p. 302). In answer to the question "how often do you go home to have sex with someone you have just met?" a total of 50% answered under the "always," "very frequently" or "somewhat frequently category" (p. 251). Jay and Young sum up, "Clearly, then, the one-night stand is within the experience of an overwhelming majority of gay men" (p. 252). Furthermore, 77% of respondents had taken part in "threesomes" at least once, while 59% had taken part in orgies or group sex (p. 587). 38% had partaken of sadomasochistic practices at least once and 23% had practiced urination in association with sex (p. 555). 24% admitted to having been paid for sex (p. 260). Nor are gay leaders shy to publicize their feelings in this regard. In the classic gay work Gay Manifesto, author Carl Wittman said that sadomasochism, "when consensual can be described as a highly artistic endeavor, a ballet the constraints of which are the thresholds of pain and pleasure" (cited on p. 554). Celebrated gay poet Allen Ginsberg commented favorably on orgies that, "It's an important human experience to relate to yourself and others as a hunk of meat sometimes" (pgs. 589-590), and referred to the orgy as "one holy divine yoga of losing ego" (590). Curiously, Jay and Young appear to have little notion that the above constitutes "promiscuity." According to them, "Where does one draw the line and say that certain people have been promiscuous, and others have not? What value judgment is implied by the term 'promiscuous'? These questions are impossible to answer because they depend on subjective attitudes" (p. 249). They cite gay respondents as saying that, "Promiscuity is a heterosexual concept used to attack us..." And also from the previous page: "The Journal of Homosexuality recently published a special double-issue entitled, "Male Intergenerational Intimacy," containing many articles portraying sex between men and minor boys as loving relationships. One article said parents should look upon the pedophile who loves their son "not as a rival or competitor, not as a theft of their property, but as a partner in the boy's upbringing, someone to be welcomed into their home." In 1995 the homosexual magazine "Guide" said, "We can be proud that the gay movement has been home to the few voices who have had the courage to say out loud that children are naturally sexual" and "deserve the right to sexual expression with whoever they choose. …" The article went on to say: "Instead of fearing being labeled pedophiles, we must proudly proclaim that sex is good, including children's sexuality." Perhaps you would like to comment on these bits of information. 1. what some "gay writer" says and what I think are two differnent things.....stop lumping all of us together. 2. NARTH is a antigay group......And their "facts" rate right up there with VPC and Brady Foundation.

That's a kind way of putting it

Quoted: 1. what some "gay writer" says and what I think are two differnent things.....stop lumping all of us together. 2. NARTH is a antigay group......And their "facts" rate right up there with VPC and Brady Foundation.

1. Well, let's be honest, any organization, scientific or otherwise, who reports that homosexuality is a disorder, would be an "anti-gay group" according to you. We both know that in no way can you be objective in this.
2. By calling them "anti-gay" you think you have given yourself some cover so as to avoid actually dealing with the unpleasant facts that have been studied and reported.  Why not refute each fact one at a time? Where are their facts wrong?

Should gay priests adopt?
by Ann Coulter

Despite the growing media consensus that Catholicism causes sodomy, an alternative view -- adopted by the Boy Scouts -- is that sodomites cause sodomy. (Assume all the usual disclaimers here about most gay men not molesting boys, most Muslims being peaceful, and so on.)

It is a fact that the vast majority of the abuser priests -- more than 90 percent -- are accused of molesting teen-age boys. Indeed, the overwhelmingly homosexual nature of the abuse prompted The New York Times to engage in its classic "Where's Waldo" reporting style, in which the sex of the victims is studiedly hidden amid a torrent of genderless words, such as the "teen-ager," the "former student," the "victim" and the "accuser."


www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/coulter032102.asp

Quoted: Quoted: 1. what some "gay writer" says and what I think are two differnent things.....stop lumping all of us together. 2. NARTH is a antigay group......And their "facts" rate right up there with VPC and Brady Foundation. 1. Well, let's be honest, any organization, scientific or otherwise, who reports that homosexuality is a disorder, would be an "anti-gay group" according to you. We both know that in no way can you be objective in this. 2. By calling them "anti-gay" you think you have given yourself some cover so as to avoid actually dealing with the unpleasant facts that have been studied and reported.  Why not refute each fact one at a time? Where are there fact wrong?

No any group who sole purpose is to spread antigay messages is antigay...just like VPC's only purpose is to spread antigun messages. Just what would NARTH do if there wasn't homosexuality?

Quoted: Quoted: 1. what some "gay writer" says and what I think are two differnent things.....stop lumping all of us together. 2. NARTH is a antigay group......And their "facts" rate right up there with VPC and Brady Foundation. 1. Well, let's be honest, any organization, scientific or otherwise, who reports that homosexuality is a disorder, would be an "anti-gay group" according to you. We both know that in no way can you be objective in this. 2. By calling them "anti-gay" you think you have given yourself some cover so as to avoid actually dealing with the unpleasant facts that have been studied and reported.  Why not refute each fact one at a time? Where are their facts wrong?

Belloc:  would you accept gun "facts" from an anti-gun organization?

Quoted: Yes, that's him. And here is what else he said: "the mental health professionals should stop moving in the direction of banning therapy that has, as a goal, a change in sexual orientation."

Funny Belloc.....you forgot to mention this part

I anticipated some misuse of the study results but I did not anticipate that some of the media would say such ridiculous things as that the study raised the issue of homosexuality and choice.  Of course no one chooses to be homosexual and no one chooses to be heterosexual.  I did anticipate, and in my presentation warn, that it would be a mistake to interpret the study as implying that any highly motivated homosexual could change if they really were motivated to do so.  I suspect that the vast majority of gay people - even if they wanted to - would be unable to make the substantial changes in sexual attraction and fantasy and enjoyment of heterosexual functioning that many of my subjects reported.  I also warned against the study results being used to justify pressuring gay people to enter therapy when they had no interest in doing so and I have already heard of many incidents where that has happened.  That is what troubles me the most about this controversy." - Dr. Robert Spitzer, May 16, 2001

Quoted: No any group who sole purpose is to spread antigay messages is antigay...

But it is you, someone who admits to sodomizing other men, who is inventing what an "anti-gay message" is.
And this info already posted is not from them, so this site must be "anti-gay message" as well.

Report: Pedophilia more common among 'gays'
Research purports to reveal 'dark side' of homosexual culture
By Jon Dougherty
© 2002 WorldNetDaily.com


Child molestation and pedophilia occur far more commonly among homosexuals than among heterosexuals on a per capita basis, according to a new study.

"Overwhelming evidence supports the belief that homosexuality is a sexual deviancy often accompanied by disorders that have dire consequences for our culture," wrote Steve Baldwin in, "Child Molestation and the Homosexual Movement," soon to be published by the Regent University Law Review.

Baldwin is the executive director of the Council for National Policy in Washington, D.C.

"It is difficult to convey the dark side of the homosexual culture without appearing harsh," wrote Baldwin. "However, it is time to acknowledge that homosexual behavior threatens the foundation of Western civilization – the nuclear family."

Though the homosexual community and much of the media scoff at such accusations, Baldwin – who chaired the California Assembly's Education committee, where he fought against support for the homosexual agenda in the state's public schools – says in his report that homosexual activists' "efforts to target children both for their own sexual pleasure and to enlarge the homosexual movement" constitute an "unmistakable" attack on "the family unit."

Baldwin's research is substantiated in a recently completed body of work written by Dr. Judith Reisman, president of the Institute for Media Education and author of numerous authoritative books debunking sexual myths, including "Kinsey, Crimes & Consequences."

In her thesis – also written for the Regent University Law Review – Reisman cited psychologist Eugene Abel, whose research found that homosexuals "sexually molest young boys with an incidence that is occurring from five times greater than the molestation of girls. …"

Abel also found that non-incarcerated "child molesters admitted from 23.4 to 281.7 acts per offender … whose targets were males."

"The rate of homosexual versus heterosexual child sexual abuse is staggering," said Reisman, who was the principal investigator for an $800,000 Justice Department grant studying child pornography and violence. "Abel’s data of 150.2 boys abused per male homosexual offender finds no equal (yet) in heterosexual violations of 19.8 girls."

Jay Heavener, spokesman for PFLAG – Parents, Families and Friends of Lesbians and Gays, counters that federal crime data refute claims that homosexuals molest children at higher rates than heterosexuals.

"According to data from the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), this claim is false," he told WND by e-mail. "The gay and lesbian community calls into question any dubious research which flies in the face of our own experience."

And Gary Schoener, a clinical psychologist who has been diagnosing and treating clergy abuse for 28 years, told Salon.com, "There are far more heterosexual cases than homosexual."

In terms of sheer numbers, that may be true. But in terms of numbers of children abused per offender, homosexuals abuse with far greater frequency; and boys, research shows, are the much-preferred target.

Baldwin says evidence he examined disproves the assertion that child molestation is more prevalent among heterosexuals. Both he and Reisman found that media coverage of adult homosexual abuse of minors is also slanted.

"The National Lesbian and Gay Journalists Association (NLGJA) recently boasted that although homosexuals are less than two percent of the population, three-fourths of the people who decide the content of the front page of the New York Times are homosexual," Reisman wrote.

That one fact is especially noteworthy, experts point out, given the recent child sex scandals taking place within the American Catholic church.

A survey by WorldNetDaily of recent news reports found that rarely did the media describe priestly sexual abuse as "homosexual" or "gay" activity – even though the worst incidents involved male-to-male contact, and a spate of investigative reports has revealed that the Vatican is concerned about an upsurge of homosexuals in seminary schools throughout the world.

Gay press promotes sex with children

Baldwin says his research not only "confirms that homosexuals molest children at a rate vastly higher than heterosexuals," but it found that "the mainstream homosexual culture" even "commonly promotes sex with children."

"The editorial board of the leading pedophile academic journal, Paidika, is dominated by prominent homosexual scholars such as San Francisco State University professor John DeCecco, who happens to edit the Journal of Homosexuality," Baldwin wrote.

During his research, he also found:

The Journal of Homosexuality recently published a special double-issue entitled, "Male Intergenerational Intimacy," containing many articles portraying sex between men and minor boys as loving relationships. One article said parents should look upon the pedophile who loves their son "not as a rival or competitor, not as a theft of their property, but as a partner in the boy's upbringing, someone to be welcomed into their home."
In 1995 the homosexual magazine "Guide" said, "We can be proud that the gay movement has been home to the few voices who have had the courage to say out loud that children are naturally sexual" and "deserve the right to sexual expression with whoever they choose. …" The article went on to say: "Instead of fearing being labeled pedophiles, we must proudly proclaim that sex is good, including children's sexuality."
Larry Kramer, the founder of ACT-UP, a noted homosexual activist group, wrote in his book, "Report from the Holocaust: The Making of an AIDS Activist": "In those instances where children do have sex with their homosexual elders, be they teachers or anyone else, I submit that often, very often, the child desires the activity, and perhaps even solicits it."
In a study of advertisements in the influential homosexual newspaper, The Advocate, Reisman found ads for a "Penetrable Boy Doll … available in three provocative positions. She also found that the number of erotic boy images in each issue of The Advocate averaged 14.
Homosexual newspapers and travel publications advertise prominently for countries where boy prostitution is heavy, such as Burma, the Philippines, Sri Lanka and Thailand.
Homosexuality 'youth-oriented'?

"Research on the homosexual lifestyle confirms it is almost exclusively a youth-oriented culture," Baldwin wrote. "Very few gays exhibit preference for older men."

"Some admit to focus on teenage boys," he said, "some on prepubescent boys, and many cross over between categories."

A 1988 study detailed in Baldwin's report found that most pedophiles even consider themselves to be "gay." According to the study, "Archives of Sexual Behavior," some 86 percent of pedophiles described themselves as homosexual or bisexual. Also, the study found, the number of teenage male prostitutes who identify as homosexuals has risen from 10 percent to 60 percent in the past 15 years.

When asked what he thought about critics who attempt to debunk his research, Baldwin said the results speak for themselves.

"For them to say this theory is false is to call many of the homosexual movement's leaders liars," he said. "Most of my evidence comes right from the gay community."

"I managed to find enough evidence that my thesis – child molestation is an integral part of the homosexual movement – is a valid thesis," Baldwin told WorldNetDaily.

Other experts have also found a distinct pattern between child sex abusers and the incidence of homosexuality.

"How long can psychologists be in denial about the significance of the dark side, and ignore what it implies about the homosexual condition? And there's a matter of even greater concern. How long will psychologists eagerly throw open the door to gay life for every sexually confused teenager?" writes Joseph Nicolosi, Ph.D, on behalf of NARTH – the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality – a group that says it exists to "provide psychological understanding of the cause, treatment and behavior patterns associated with homosexuality, within the boundaries of a civil public dialogue."

The North American Man-Boy Love Association, or NAMBLA, is "a group that openly promotes sex with minor boys and claims that boy-lovers respond to the needs of the boys they love," Baldwin said in his report.

The group is often endorsed by "many of the homosexual movement's most prominent leaders," he said.

Advocacy moving to schools

Promotion of the "gay and lesbian lifestyle" is increasing in the nation's public schools.

A WND survey of homosexual-oriented websites found that almost every group has some sort of program to "educate" teachers, school administrators and other school employees about the homosexual lifestyle:

GLSEN – the Gay Lesbian and Straight Education Network – bills itself as "the largest national network of parents, students, educators and others" specifically formed to end "discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity/expression in K-12 schools. Two recent press released boasted of the Broward County (Fla.) school board approving GLSEN-sponsored "training for teachers."
A student activist working with GLSEN officials has managed to "give voice" recently to "gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered students" at California schools;
PFLAG has created a national campaign called, "From Our House to the Schoolhouse," distributing to school officials – among other materials – a booklet entitled, "Just the Facts About Sexual Orientation and Youth: A Primer For Principals, Educators, & School Personnel. [Editor's note: Readers need the Adobe PDF reader to open and read this file.]
Though most school-related programs are sold to administrators and parents as programs designed simply to end persecution of homosexuals and lesbians, none disclose what Baldwin says is compelling evidence that homosexuality is harmful to children.

"What … does the academic literature say about the relationship between homosexuality and child molestation? Quite a bit, actually," he wrote, quoting data compiled by the Family Research Institute: "Scientific studies confirm a strong pedophilic predisposition among homosexuals."

The institute, after reviewing more than 19 studies and peer-reviewed reports in a 1985 "Psychological Reports" article, found that homosexuals account for between 25 and 40 percent of all child molestation.

"But this number is low," Baldwin says, "due to the fact that many reporters will not report if a child molester is a homosexual, even if he knows that to be the case."

Quoted: Belloc:  would you accept gun "facts" from an anti-gun organization?

Would you accept pro-homosexual facts from Hillary Clinton or from Act-Up?

It says in your own article that the FBI numbers don't correspond.

Quoted: Quoted: Belloc:  would you accept gun "facts" from an anti-gun organization? Would you accept pro-homosexual facts from Hillary Clinton or from Act-Up?

No, I would accept them from my own experience.  A friend of mine is bisexual.

Also, I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT YOU CAN NOT CHANGE SOMEONE'S SEXUAL ORIENTATION.  Nobody could make me gay.  If you think that someone can change your sexual orietation, you've got some thinking to do.  There is nothing that would convert a straight person to being gay, and there is nothing that could convert someone that is gay to being straight.  You might force them into only fucking the opposite sex, they might be able to perform, but they wont like it.  

You're nothing but a fucking troll.  

I answered your question, now YOU ANSWER MINE!

Belloc:  would you accept gun "facts" from an anti-gun organization?

Quoted: [ Funny Belloc.....you forgot to mention this part I anticipated some misuse of the study results but I did not anticipate that some of the media would say such ridiculous things as that the study raised the issue of homosexuality and choice.  Of course no one chooses to be homosexual and no one chooses to be heterosexual.  I did anticipate, and in my presentation warn, that it would be a mistake to interpret the study as implying that any highly motivated homosexual could change if they really were motivated to do so.  I suspect that the vast majority of gay people - even if they wanted to - would be unable to make the substantial changes in sexual attraction and fantasy and enjoyment of heterosexual functioning that many of my subjects reported.  I also warned against the study results being used to justify pressuring gay people to enter therapy when they had no interest in doing so and I have already heard of many incidents where that has happened.  That is what troubles me the most about this controversy." - Dr. Robert Spitzer, May 16, 2001

I did not forget, it just has nothing to do with anyhing.
1. It does nothing to change the fact that he now believes that at least some percentage of those with this disorder can be changed.
2. Does not in anyway refute the fact that homosexuality was not taken off the list of disorders for scientific reasons.
3. Does not change the fact that he wants the APA to stop telling those with this disorder not to seek help.
4. Does not change the fact that the APA also believes that only very few pedophiles can ever be cured. But that does not make pedophilia good or normal, nor does it mean that curing them should not be tried.

Quoted: Quoted: [ Funny Belloc.....you forgot to mention this part I anticipated some misuse of the study results but I did not anticipate that some of the media would say such ridiculous things as that the study raised the issue of homosexuality and choice.  Of course no one chooses to be homosexual and no one chooses to be heterosexual.  I did anticipate, and in my presentation warn, that it would be a mistake to interpret the study as implying that any highly motivated homosexual could change if they really were motivated to do so.  I suspect that the vast majority of gay people - even if they wanted to - would be unable to make the substantial changes in sexual attraction and fantasy and enjoyment of heterosexual functioning that many of my subjects reported.  I also warned against the study results being used to justify pressuring gay people to enter therapy when they had no interest in doing so and I have already heard of many incidents where that has happened.  That is what troubles me the most about this controversy." - Dr. Robert Spitzer, May 16, 2001 I did not forget, it just has nothing to do with anyhing. 1. It does nothing to change the fact that he now believes that at least some percentage of those with this disorder can be changed. 2. Does not in anyway refute the fact that homosexuality was not taken off the list of disorders for scientific reasons. 3. Does not change the fact that he wants the APA to stop telling those with this disorder not to seek help. 4. Does not change the fact that the APA also believes that only very few pedophiles can ever be cured. But that does not make pedophilia good or normal, nor does it mean that curing them should not be tried.

I have yet to see a case where pedophilia was cured, be it straight or gay.  

Quoted:
No, I would accept them from my own experience.  A friend of mine is bisexual.
Yeah, that's good science. "Those who engage in homosexual sodomy, bisexual degeneracy, cross-dressing, etc, cannot be bad because my friend does it".
Idiot.

Also, I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT YOU CAN NOT CHANGE SOMEONE'S SEXUAL ORIENTATION.
Really, so all those researchers who say otherwise should just listen to you and be done with it.
www.narth.com/docs/does.html
A new study by two University of Southern California sociologists says children with lesbian or gay parents show.. are probably more likely to explore homosexual activity themselves.

Nobody could make me gay.
Your confusing "gay" with intelligent.

And none of the pro-homosexual sodomy people  have yet to deal with this little issue.
"The Journal of Homosexuality recently published a special double-issue entitled, "Male Intergenerational Intimacy," containing many articles portraying sex between men and minor boys as loving relationships.

I do beleive that homosexuals should be segregated from the population.  I do beleive the statistics that the homosexuals commit 1/3rd of the molestations.

But then again we all could become homosexuals when the Pentagon releases the "sex bomb" on us.  You know the chemical weapon that knocks our hormones out of whack and can turn a straight guy into a flaming homosexual.  This is a fact,  there are actualy drugs that will turn you gay.

I personally want to find the formula.  I want to use it on women,  so they find me irresistable and jump all over me in drugged lust.

Lol,  but really that scares me.  I find gay men the most disgusting disgrace to humanity that there is.  It would be hell to be gay.

Quoted: Quoted: No, I would accept them from my own experience.  A friend of mine is bisexual. Yeah, that's good science. "Those who engage in homosexual sodomy, bisexual degeneracy, cross-dressing, etc, cannot be bad because my friend does it". Idiot. No you fucking asshole, I'm saying that I don't believe all the lies I hear from anti-gay organizations.  My exact stance on this is too complex for you to understand.  If someone told you the sky was red, you would go out and look to see if it's true, right?  Or would just you believe the "red sky institute"? Homosexuality and the so-called "gay lifestyle" are two seperate things.  The "gay lifestyle" is a repulsive social construct, whereas homosexuality is something people are born with. What about those who engage in heterosexual sodomy, heterosexual degeneracy, cross-dressing, etc? Also, I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT YOU CAN NOT CHANGE SOMEONE'S SEXUAL ORIENTATION. Really, so all those researchers who say otherwise should just listen to you and be done with it. www.narth.com/docs/does.html A new study by two University of Southern California sociologists says children with lesbian or gay parents show.. are probably more likely to explore homosexual activity themselves. ENOUGH OF YOUR NARTH.COM BULLSHIT!  If you believe this, then you accept that you can be turned gay as well.  Do you have something to tell us?   Nobody could make me gay. Your confusing "gay" with intelligent. That's a profound statement. And none of the pro-homosexual sodomy people  have yet to deal with this little issue. "The Journal of Homosexuality recently published a special double-issue entitled, "Male Intergenerational Intimacy," containing many articles portraying sex between men and minor boys as loving relationships. That's because none of the "pro-homosexual sodomy people" give a fuck about NARTH.  Just like we don't care about Brady or VPC.

Quoted: Quoted: [ Funny Belloc.....you forgot to mention this part I anticipated some misuse of the study results but I did not anticipate that some of the media would say such ridiculous things as that the study raised the issue of homosexuality and choice.  Of course no one chooses to be homosexual and no one chooses to be heterosexual.  I did anticipate, and in my presentation warn, that it would be a mistake to interpret the study as implying that any highly motivated homosexual could change if they really were motivated to do so.  I suspect that the vast majority of gay people - even if they wanted to - would be unable to make the substantial changes in sexual attraction and fantasy and enjoyment of heterosexual functioning that many of my subjects reported.  I also warned against the study results being used to justify pressuring gay people to enter therapy when they had no interest in doing so and I have already heard of many incidents where that has happened.  That is what troubles me the most about this controversy." - Dr. Robert Spitzer, May 16, 2001 I did not forget, it just has nothing to do with anyhing. 1. It does nothing to change the fact that he now believes that at least some percentage of those with this disorder can be changed. 2. Does not in anyway refute the fact that homosexuality was not taken off the list of disorders for scientific reasons. 3. Does not change the fact that he wants the APA to stop telling those with this disorder not to seek help. 4. Does not change the fact that the APA also believes that only very few pedophiles can ever be cured. But that does not make pedophilia good or normal, nor does it mean that curing them should not be tried.

Belloc.......your quoted "experts" run anti gay groups.

this covers you and them perfectly

Easier to Nauseate Than Educate

But no matter how often a lie is told, it is still false. Dr. Michael R. Stevenson conducted an exhaustive review of the social science literature in 2000, and concluded that “a gay man is no more likely than a straight man to perpetrate sexual activity with children,” and “cases of perpetration of sexual behavior with a pre-pubescent child by an adult lesbian are virtually nonexistent”.[29] The research is so strong that the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatrists[30] and the American Psychological Association[31] have issued statements stating that there is no correlation between homosexuality and child sexual abuse.

Anti-gay activists know that their claims are false. They’ve read – and misquoted – research from the most knowledgeable experts in the field. But they keep spreading it because they know it is effective. Every parent would consider it his or her worst nightmare to discover that their innocent child has been sexually violated. And anti-gay activists feed on that fear to further their agenda because, as Colorado for Family Values founder Tony Marco observed, “It is easier to nauseate than it is to educate.”[32]

I think anyone that says "Its ok to be gay" is a danger to our children.  By accepting it as normal behavior. You increase the chances that our children will become gay.

Quoted:
, I'm saying that I don't believe all the lies I hear from anti-gay organizations.
"anti-gay"? Sure thing Sheila.


My exact stance on this is too complex for you to understand.
Read: "I'm such a pro-gay nutjob I simply don't know which end is up."

What about those who engage in heterosexual sodomy, heterosexual degeneracy, cross-dressing, etc?
What, more "friends" of yours?



A new study by two University of Southern California sociologists says children with lesbian or gay parents show.. are probably more likely to explore homosexual activity themselves.

ENOUGH OF YOUR NARTH.COM BULLSHIT!
Narth only reported it, it was a study from USC moron.



Nobody could make me gay.
Your confusing "gay" with intelligent.

That's a profound statement.

And as you seem all to eager to display, accurate.



And none of the pro-homosexual sodomy people  have yet to deal with this little issue.
"The Journal of Homosexuality recently published a special double-issue entitled, "Male Intergenerational Intimacy," containing many articles portraying sex between men and minor boys as loving relationships.

That's because none of the "pro-homosexual sodomy people" give a fuck about NARTH.  Just like we don't care about Brady or VPC.
Uh, that was not from Narth.
Perhaps you should read it again after you have wiped off the eye-shadow. It seems to be bluring your vision.

Quoted: Belloc.......your quoted "experts" run anti gay groups. this covers you and them perfectly Easier to Nauseate Than Educate But no matter how often a lie is told, it is still false. Dr. Michael R. Stevenson conducted an exhaustive review of the social science literature in 2000, and concluded that “a gay man is no more likely than a straight man to perpetrate sexual activity with children,” and “cases of perpetration of sexual behavior with a pre-pubescent child by an adult lesbian are virtually nonexistent”.[29] The research is so strong that the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatrists[30] and the American Psychological Association[31] have issued statements stating that there is no correlation between homosexuality and child sexual abuse. Anti-gay activists know that their claims are false. They’ve read – and misquoted – research from the most knowledgeable experts in the field. But they keep spreading it because they know it is effective. Every parent would consider it his or her worst nightmare to discover that their innocent child has been sexually violated. And anti-gay activists feed on that fear to further their agenda because, as Colorado for Family Values founder Tony Marco observed, “It is easier to nauseate than it is to educate.”[32]

And what goofy pro-homosexual sodomy site did you pull that from? Source?

Quoted: I think anyone that says "Its ok to be gay" is a danger to our children.  By accepting it as normal behavior. You increase the chances that our children will become gay.

So you think your kid might become gay if they are ever around other gays?  If so then the problem is deeper than that.

WE ARE ALL GAY WHEN THE PENTAGON RELEASES THE SEX BOMB!

CHEMICAL WEAPON THAT MAKES SOLDIERS COMMIT HOMOSEXUAL ACTS ON EACH OTHER

Quoted: Quoted: I think anyone that says "Its ok to be gay" is a danger to our children.  By accepting it as normal behavior. You increase the chances that our children will become gay. So you think your kid might become gay if they are ever around other gays?  If so then the problem is deeper than that.

Children are not born gay. And if its accepted as ok then more and more will become that way.

Quoted: IMHO SOME are. Then again SOME non gays are a threat as well. I have had a few gay freinds over the years. None of them were in your face and frankly unless you knew them well you'd never have known it. Thats the way it should be. I don't need the lifestyle in my face 24x7 and you don't need mine in yours. mike

While you're in my head so much, tell me...do I like the green pair orthe pink pair better?

That's girl-speak for +1