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Posted: 3/12/2006 3:15:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2006 3:18:12 PM EDT by ProGunFemme]
Link to the article



It has become a familiar image at the UTSA 1604 Campus: “Border Crossing,” the statue of a Mexican migrant family traveling across the Rio Grande into the United States. “Border Crossing” has stood in the central plaza of the university in front of the Multidisciplinary (MS) Building since 1996.

It was erected during UTSA’s art commission project to bring art to the campus under the then president, Samuel Kirkpatrick.

The artist, Luis Jimenez, created “Border Crossing” and the sculpture “Fiesta Dancers” in front of the University Center. He dedicated “Border Crossing” to his father who crossed the Rio Grande into the United States in 1922.

The statue depicts a Mexican man carrying his wife, cradling a baby, on his back. The man’s pants are rolled up to indicate that he is crossing a waterway. Their clothes are tattered and worn, and a scarf is wrapped around the man’s infant to the wrapping the child to the rope used as the man’s belt. They each have hardship etched in their faces.

The swollen veins in the man’s feet show his struggles to get across the river. Whatever is across the river must be worth his efforts. Isn’t this one of the many immigrant stories that has made America what is today?

So why do some UTSA students want it removed?

“It’s just a little odd to me that the university is honoring, or memorializing, illegal activity,” Russ Hargraves, former chairman of the UTSA College Republicans, said. Hargraves argues that the statue celebrates illegal immigration, which the United States struggles to fight on its southern borders.

“This is a public institution supported by the state. We shouldn’t be condoning illegal activity,” he said.

Hargraves knows the United States is made up of immigrants, but feels supporting illegal immigration gives a bad impression.

“I don’t think illegal immigration to San Antonio, or even Texas, or even the United States, is insulting,” Hargraves said. “I think memorializing and depicting it in a statue is insulting to the city’s image.”

Hargraves has lived in San Antonio for three years and knows immigration is a sensitive subject in a predominately Mexican–American city. “Immigrants to this country serve a vital purpose, especially immigrants from Mexico,” he said.

But he believes Mexican Americans should not be expected to support illegal immigration, or to celebrate it culturally in art. “I think I would take offense if anyone suggested that any illegal activity was a part of my culture,” he said. Mexican American activists argue that illegal immigration is a subject that needs to be addressed.

“I can see why certain Mexican Americans would feel that way,” Hargraves said, “but that doesn’t change the fact that our laws—especially our immigration laws—as a sovereign nation can or should be disregarded.”

Hargraves has even taken his argument to the Web. He has used the popular social Web site Facebook.com to make a specialty group where UTSA students can voice their opinions about the statue. There, he has found many supporters to his belief.

“I know a lot of the members of College Republicans would like to see it removed,” Hargraves said, “especially our Hispanic members.”

Laura Elizabeth Morales, College Republican, is the daughter of a Mexican immigrant.

“I think any American who sees a statue depicting an illegal action would not like to see it on a college campus or in the United States for that matter,” Morales said.

Morales does not see a contradiction between her Hispanic background and her opposition to the statue. Her mother was born in Mexico and lived there during her early childhood before her family decided to emigrate to the United States.

Her mother’s family went through the citizenship process to become United States citizens, which, according to Morales, is the only process immigrants should go through it they want to be American citizens.

“Just because someone’s family crossed [in] the wrong way doesn’t mean it should be a statue,” Morales said. “My family crossed legally, but I don’t see a statue about that.”

Morales supports immigration. “I think the more cultural backgrounds we get in this country the better,” she said.

She believes that legal immigration improves America’s job market and makes the American identity more diverse.

“I wouldn’t mind seeing a statue to the border patrol, people who protect our borders from people who cross here illegally,” Morales said. “The statue is glorifying illegal immigration and not legal immigration.”

According to both Hargraves and Morales, last fall the College Republicans considered bringing a resolution to the Student Government Association and the administration to remove the statue as a part of the university’s beautification.

The aesthetics of the statue is not what Morales found ugly. “I think what it stands for has an ugly thing about it,” Morales said.

Crystal Del Bosque, a political science major and member of the Progressive Student Organization, disagrees, and says people are overlooking its important message.

“No matter what side of the political spectrum you are on, by taking down the statue, you are simply saying that immigration is not an issue in Texas,” Del Bosque said.

According to Del Bosque, the roots of many Mexican Americans are traced back to what “Border Crossing” is portraying. “For a lot of Mexican Americans, immigration like this has been endured by their forefathers and foremothers,” she said.

“I don’t think the statue depicts a sole cultural factor of Mexican Americans who a lot of people identify as immigrants—which is not necessarily true. There have been Mexicans here since the annexation of Texas.”

Del Bosque suggests that people would feel less pensive about “Border Crossing” if they knew its history.

“[The artist is] depicting the story his family came through. Now he is successful enough to make a statue about it and share it with the university,” Del Bosque said. “That’s a success story.”

Carla Gòmez, a history and Mexican American studies major, and a member of the Mexican American Studies Student Organization (MASSO), agrees that the stories of American immigrants cannot be forgotten.

“We have to keep in mind who made sacrifices, and sometimes did something illegal, just to make sure their families get ahead and do well,” Gòmez said.

Originally from Mexico, Gòmez said she was fortunate to be brought to the United States legally with her family when she was three years old. Although she is a legal immigrant, she sympathizes with those who crossed over illegally.

Gòmez says that opposition to illegal immigration cannot look only at laws; those opposed must look at the human aspect as well. “How fair is it to demonize people just because they want to better their lives and their family’s?” she asked.

She believes the statue is relevant to UTSA, San Antonio and the rest of the Mexican American community. The social identity of the people in the statue far outweighs its depiction of illegal activity.

“You have to ask why the statue is depicting brown, working class people, and not some rich white guy,” Gòmez said. “Look at the people who built this campus, look at who built the Biotechnology Building (BSE Building). They were razas, Mexicanos working to build it.”

Gòmez explains we cannot believe we are superior to illegal immigrants. “We shouldn’t think we’re better just because we have papers,” she said. “It doesn’t make us better [people] in the long run.”

She argues that the statue is not just showing the struggles of Mexican Americans, but the struggles of parents who are trying to ensure a better future for their children. While people may solely look at the immigration aspect of “Border Crossing,” she sees an onward battle for people to keep their families alive.

“[The statue] should stay up there because it reminds us to keep struggling for a better future, for ourselves and future generations,” Gòmez said.

She went on to say that those aren’t just Mexican Americans. In a way they represent everyone’s parents, trying to make a better life for their children. She drew attention to the baby in the woman’s arms. “I guess the child represents us,” she said, “their holding us up to do better.”




*** They will be receiving a very impassioned letter from me later this week.

I wouldn't have come to this school if I'd paid attention to what that fugly thing was.

Seriously. The first year I was there (last year I transferred) I walked by it every day without a second thought. Now that I'm in my second to last semester, I'm stuck. Great.

I'm glad someone finally brought this up.

What do y'all think about this?

I'm trying to come up with the right words and thoughts to convey my disgust to the Paisano and the rest of UTSA about this.

Here's my random disorganized thoughts on it so far, copied from my blog:
"So there's this statue at UTSA called "Border Crossing" that basically glorifies illegal immigration. I'm so glad that someone finally spoke up about it in the school paper.

Being from Del Rio, Texas, right on the TX/Mexico border, illegal immigration is a way of life. Knowing that people are OKAY with it makes my blood boil like you wouldn't believe.

My mother came here from the Philippines, and since she followed the rules, she would have gotten kicked out after a time unless she got her green card.

I hate that people like her that are educated, that appreciate this country so much, that don't expect the government to do everything for them, have to worry about deportation when any "undocumented" person can come here and do as they please without consequence. I really don't appreciate that, at all. So that's why I think that statue that glorifies illegal activity should be taken right down.

Yeah yeah yeah, they're coming here for a better life. So are the people that are crossing LEGALLY. My mom came here for a better life. She did it the legal way, and was almost punished for it (i.e. nearly kicked out over an expired visa). What does that say about our justice system? Really makes you believe the saying, "No good deed goes unpunished." There are people that cross oceans to be here, only to either be turned away or told that it's going to take a while. Yet there's a river not three miles from where I'm sitting that people cross every day with absolutely no regard to our rules.

Some people prefer to make this a race issue because they have nothing better to fortify their empty argument. What are they going to say, really? That they condone crime? I'll admit, I've seen my share of bigots that refer to every person with an accent, with a Spanish last name, with their radio blasting Tejano, an "illegal alien."

Maybe for some it is simply a race thing. But not here. For me, it hits a little too close to home. It's about the hypocrisy in denying people rights when they try to do the right thing and doing nothing about the people who do the wrong thing.

Oh, and really, if people cared so much for illegals, they'd put two and two together and realize that no documents means under-the-table work. Which means whoever works them can do with them whatever they please and the person can't do anything about it, because guess what, they're not protected by any of our labor laws. And technically no one knows about them. They're non-existent. Without those papers anyone that works them can pay them $2 a day and work them 20 hours a day, 6 days a week. They can subject them to work conditions illegal by labor law standards.

On another note, what kind of message are we sending to terrorists?? Immigration control is so lax it's basically a joke. Those who don't care about illegal immigration are basically saying that the easy way into our country is through Mexico. Why bother with the papers? Same with drug smugglers. I'd venture to say that a vast majority of the supply comes in through the border (all sides, land and water), and seriously.. there's enough of a drug problem here. People will rob and kill for a fix. The joke that is "border security" basically makes drug dealers' work cut out for them.

I can't believe some people actually favor crime in the name of political correctness."
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 3:22:42 PM EDT

It has become a familiar image at the UTSA 1604 Campus: “Border Crossing,” the statue of a Mexican migrant family traveling across the Rio Grande into the United States.


I didn't have a problem with illegals until they started abusing the welfare system\hospitals
and opening BROTHELS WITH FORCED PROSTITUTION OF CHILDREN

Don't forget the dui-hit-and-runs, rapes, robberies and income tax evasion that increase MY taxes
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 3:41:00 PM EDT
I havn't seen any sculpture of murder, rape or theivery. Those must not be issues for Texas according to Crystal Del Bosque's highly informed and well rounded reasoning.
Some days I realy hate returning to school. I am afraid universities have become less centers for enlightenment and more of a breading ground for asinine ideas and social decay.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 3:43:44 PM EDT
I'd like to go to our local campus and take some classes, I always enjoyed the educational setting

But, I am afraid that I would just be paying a lot of money to get in a fistfight with a teacher
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 3:51:59 PM EDT
San Antonio is practically part of Mexico already. They have the upper hand in this argument and I doubt he'll get any support to bring it down.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 3:57:06 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 4:23:55 PM EDT
cool.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 4:28:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By OFFascist:
cool.



Link Posted: 3/12/2006 4:32:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:
I didn't have a problem with illegals until they started abusing the welfare system\hospitals
and opening BROTHELS WITH FORCED PROSTITUTION OF CHILDREN

Don't forget the dui-hit-and-runs, rapes, robberies and income tax evasion that increase MY taxes


No offense, but most of what you just posted sounds like anti-immigration propoganda. Have some links to support forced prostitution?And what about the citizens who commit DUI, rob people and evade taxes?
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 4:42:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2006 4:43:56 PM EDT by 22bad]

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By 22bad:
I didn't have a problem with illegals until they started abusing the welfare system\hospitals
and opening BROTHELS WITH FORCED PROSTITUTION OF CHILDREN

Don't forget the dui-hit-and-runs, rapes, robberies and income tax evasion that increase MY taxes


No offense, but most of what you just posted sounds like anti-immigration propoganda. Have some links to support forced prostitution?And what about the citizens who commit DUI, rob people and evade taxes?



Well, they busted two of the brothels here in Houston with children being forced to be prostitutes
I personally know of illegals that work construction and get paid in cash
Our emergency hospitals are complaining about unpaid illegal alien bills
Our schools are attempting to recruit ILLEGALS to teach
I don't feel the need to support the dui-hit-and-run anybody should be able to see that for themself

Why do you keep calling it propaganda? Articles about those things can be easily found by using google or searching MY threads

These articles are in the liberal media that actually supports the illegals being here, they leave off many of the illegals crimes

I don't see any way, shape or form that these stories or statements can be considered "propaganda" they are facts

If you don't think there is a difference between an illegal robbing you and a Citizen robbing you, I don't know if anything I say would ever matter to you
The illegal is not supposed to even be in this country, I guess that doesn't mean anything to some people, it does to me, we have enough criminals already

And yeah, I can provide links, I already have, many times, look at the articles at the top of the pages in my threads about illegals
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 4:43:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By 22bad:
I didn't have a problem with illegals until they started abusing the welfare system\hospitals
and opening BROTHELS WITH FORCED PROSTITUTION OF CHILDREN

Don't forget the dui-hit-and-runs, rapes, robberies and income tax evasion that increase MY taxes


No offense, but most of what you just posted sounds like anti-immigration propoganda. Have some links to support forced prostitution?And what about the citizens who commit DUI, rob people and evade taxes?




So you SUPPORT Illegal Immigration? I suppose they are just law abiding people looking for a better life?
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 4:45:33 PM EDT
Another burner in the making.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 4:46:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2006 4:48:06 PM EDT by 22bad]
I left off the 300,000 anchor babies born every year in the US that qualify the family for welfare, free rent and medical care for 18 years
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 4:59:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NonConformist:

So you SUPPORT Illegal Immigration? I suppose they are just law abiding people looking for a better life?


Not that I support illegal immigration, but I question the rationales used by some of those who oppose immigration, illegal or otherwise, and the way the system is set up that forces some to resort to illegal immigration instead of legal methods.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 5:01:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:
Well, they busted two of the brothels here in Houston with children being forced to be prostitutes
I personally know of illegals that work construction and get paid in cash
Our emergency hospitals are complaining about unpaid illegal alien bills
Our schools are attempting to recruit ILLEGALS to teach
I don't feel the need to support the dui-hit-and-run anybody should be able to see that for themself

Why do you keep calling it propaganda? Articles about those things can be easily found by using google or searching MY threads

These articles are in the liberal media that actually supports the illegals being here, they leave off many of the illegals crimes

I don't see any way, shape or form that these stories or statements can be considered "propaganda" they are facts

If you don't think there is a difference between an illegal robbing you and a Citizen robbing you, I don't know if anything I say would ever matter to you
The illegal is not supposed to even be in this country, I guess that doesn't mean anything to some people, it does to me, we have enough criminals already

And yeah, I can provide links, I already have, many times, look at the articles at the top of the pages in my threads about illegals



All of the ills you cite can be found in the citizen population as well. You simply live in an area where you have a high per centage of illegal immigrants, so you zone in on reports involving that part of the population.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 5:06:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2006 5:08:54 PM EDT by 22bad]

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By NonConformist:

So you SUPPORT Illegal Immigration? I suppose they are just law abiding people looking for a better life?


Not that I support illegal immigration, but I question the rationales used by some of those who oppose immigration, illegal or otherwise, and the way the system is set up that forces some to resort to illegal immigration instead of legal methods.



I would be in favor of DRAMATICALLY increasing LEGAL immigration, and streamlining the process

But, these criminals and people coming across the border without any certification of their health is BS

If hoof and mouth disease is so dangerous to the American livestock industry why doesn't it matter about the illegals?

If it is illegal to bring even ONE fruit or vegatable into this country because it could decimate the agricultural industry, what about the illegals?

They walk over a fence in the middle of a field, no one is checking that, what about the war on drugs, the war on terrorism

The propaganda is actually on the other side
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 5:08:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By 22bad:
Well, they busted two of the brothels here in Houston with children being forced to be prostitutes
I personally know of illegals that work construction and get paid in cash
Our emergency hospitals are complaining about unpaid illegal alien bills
Our schools are attempting to recruit ILLEGALS to teach
I don't feel the need to support the dui-hit-and-run anybody should be able to see that for themself

Why do you keep calling it propaganda? Articles about those things can be easily found by using google or searching MY threads

These articles are in the liberal media that actually supports the illegals being here, they leave off many of the illegals crimes

I don't see any way, shape or form that these stories or statements can be considered "propaganda" they are facts

If you don't think there is a difference between an illegal robbing you and a Citizen robbing you, I don't know if anything I say would ever matter to you
The illegal is not supposed to even be in this country, I guess that doesn't mean anything to some people, it does to me, we have enough criminals already

And yeah, I can provide links, I already have, many times, look at the articles at the top of the pages in my threads about illegals



All of the ills you cite can be found in the citizen population as well. You simply live in an area where you have a high per centage of illegal immigrants, so you zone in on reports involving that part of the population.



Find the arrest statistics for illegals and then maybe we can have a serious discussion about it
(as far as I know they don't exist, illegals arrest records are sealed "to protect their privacy")
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 6:12:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2006 6:27:16 PM EDT by tc556guy]

Originally Posted By 22bad:
Find the arrest statistics for illegals and then maybe we can have a serious discussion about it
(as far as I know they don't exist, illegals arrest records are sealed "to protect their privacy")


So since YOU have no stats, I assume that your claims are inuendo?
Edit to add:
OK, you want stats? Heres an excerpt from one source:

Immigrant Crime as an Exaggerated Fear: The Evidence

Immigrant Crime as a Stereotype

Immigrant crime, and widespread fear of it, has had a long history in this country. For well over a century newcomers have brought with them a criminal element who, however unrepresentative of their nationalities, have turned their communities into zones of lawlessness. Often, members of a particular ethnic group have preyed upon other groups, whether or not of the same nationality. Prior to the 1920s Jewish gangsters in New York frequently terrorized strikers into returning to work, and picked pockets on crowded streets. Italians operated extortion rings in San Francisco and prostitution houses in Chicago. Small grocery owners combined the legitimate and illegitimate by doubling as loan sharks, preying on the inability of immigrant workers to obtain credit through normal channels.4 Groups such as the Mafia, the Chinese Triads, and various Mexican and Central American drug cartels established control over the sale and distribution of goods and services, both legal and illegal.

Researchers and observers, aware that widespread concern over crime committed by immigrants can boil over into hate crimes committed against them, rarely hesitate to note that the majority of immigrants are law-abiding. Often, they go further, adding that immigrants commit fewer crimes than the native-born. A 1997 paper jointly sponsored by the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace and the Urban Institute typifies this view:5

Few stereotypes of immigrants are as enduring, or have been proven so categorically false over literally decades of research, as the notion that immigrants are disproportionately likely to engage in criminal activity…(If anything) immigrants are disproportionately unlikely to be criminal.

It might surprise many just how many decades back this view dates.6 In 1901 a federal entity, known as the Industrial Commission, issued a "Special Report on General Statistics of Immigration and the Foreign-Born," observing that foreign-born whites were less oriented toward crime than native whites. A decade later, in 1911, another federal panel, the Immigration Commission, released its own study. "No satisfactory evidence," the report said, "has yet been produced to show that immigration has resulted in an increase in crime disproportionate to the increase in adult population…Such figures as are presented…indicate that immigration has not increased the volume of crime to a distinguishable extent, if at all…In fact, the figures seem to show a contrary result." During the Hoover years, yet another federal commission, the National Commission on Law Observance and Enforcement, collected data on crime and arrest statistics in 52 cities. The results, the commission's 1931 report concluded, "seem to disagree radically with the popular belief that a high percentage [of crime] may be ascribed to the 'alien.' " Local data for Los Angeles in the early decades of the 20th century also failed to show a pattern of immigrants committing excessive amounts of crime.7

Recent Research

In the 1980s and 1990s researchers have concluded, or at least have lent support to the conclusion, that immigrants commit proportionately no more than and possibly even fewer crimes than native-born citizens. The General Accounting Office, analyzing FBI records, found that foreign-born individuals accounted for about 19 percent of the total arrests in 1985 in six selected major cities.8 The foreign-born represented 19.6 percent of the aggregate population. While "foreign-born" can mean refer to citizens as well as aliens,9 the study makes an implicit case that immigrant crime is in line with the rest of the country.

Kristin Butcher of Boston College and Anne Morrison Piehl of Harvard's Kennedy School of Government, using 1980 and 1990 Census Public Use Microdata Samples, found that among men aged 18-40 immigrants were less likely to be in correctional institutions than the native-born.10 If native-born men had the institutionalization rates of immigrants with the same demographic traits, the former's institutionalized population would be only two-thirds the current size. The authors added that immigrants who had arrived at an earlier point in time were more likely to be in prison than recent entrants. This stood in contrast to the prevailing view of labor economists that earlier immigrants were more successful, and hence less likely to see crime as a substitute for gainful employment.

Butcher and Piehl conducted a separate study of several dozen U.S. metropolitan areas.11 Using data from the FBI Uniform Crime Reports and the Census Bureau’s Current Population Survey, the authors found recent immigrants had no significant effect either on crime rates or the change in rates over time. In a secondary analysis of individual data from the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth, youths born abroad were significantly less likely than native-born youths to be criminally active.

John Hagan of the University of Toronto and Alberto Palloni of the University of Wisconsin also found a weak link between immigration and crime.12 Examining criminal justice data in two U.S. border cities, El Paso and San Diego, Hagan and Palloni argued immigrants are disproportionately represented among prison inmates because of biases in processes that lead from pre-trial detention to sentencing. The criminal justice system views immigrants as potential "flight risks," they noted, and thus detains many suspects who otherwise (as citizens) would not be detained. The authors concluded that incarceration rates, depending on the national origin of the criminal, exaggerate by anywhere from three to seven times the crime rates of immigrants relative to citizens.

INS data, recently made available at the request of the House and Senate Appropriations subcommittees that fund the agency's budget, show a lower recidivism rate for immigrants. Of the 35,318 criminal aliens INS released from custody (but not did not deport) during October 1994 and May 1999 there were 11,605 who went on to commit new crimes. This recidivism (repeat offender) rate of 37 percent was well below the 66 percent figure for the U.S. criminal population for the comparable period.13 This discrepancy did not dissuade Rep. Hal Rogers, R-Ky., and Sen. Judd Gregg, R-N.H., the respective subcommittee chairmen, from pointing to the data as evidence of INS's incompetence and disregard for public safety; Rogers' response was particularly harsh. Yet neither refuted the existence of the gap in recidivism.



www.cis.org/articles/2001/crime/toc.html
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 6:44:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
All of the ills you cite can be found in the citizen population as well. You simply live in an area where you have a high per centage of illegal immigrants, so you zone in on reports involving that part of the population.



I'm rather disappointed in you. Usually you are oppressively pro-law, damned the consequences or how unconstitutional their enforcement may be. Now you are presented with criminals who convict themselves with prima facie evidence by merely being present in the U.S. without the required documents and you are making excuses for them. I want the old JBT tc556guy back.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 6:57:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By 22bad:
Find the arrest statistics for illegals and then maybe we can have a serious discussion about it
(as far as I know they don't exist, illegals arrest records are sealed "to protect their privacy")


So since YOU have no stats, I assume that your claims are inuendo?
Edit to add:
OK, you want stats? Heres an excerpt from one source:

Immigrant Crime as an Exaggerated Fear: The Evidence

Immigrant Crime as a Stereotype

Immigrant crime, and widespread fear of it, has had a long history in this country.



THAT WAS PROPAGANDA, YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING

I thought you were asking valid questions, you have blown that theory

FIND SOME ARREST RECORDS OF ILLEGALS, START WITH THE ONES RUNNING UNDERAGE BROTHELS IN HOUSTON

HERE IS A STARTING POINT, AN ICE GOVERNMENT WEBSITE DESCRIBING ILLEGAL ALIENS RUNNING AN UNDERAGE BROTHEL

DON'T BE ACCUSING ME OF MAKING THIS SHIT UP WHEN IT IS RIGHT FRIGGIN IN FRONT OF YOU


FOUR MEXICAN NATIONALS INDICTED FOR SEX TRAFFICKING
www.ice.gov/text/news/newsreleases/articles/050916houston.htm
Mexican girls were forced to work as prostitutes at Houston-area bars
HOUSTON, Texas - Four Mexican nationals were indicted by a federal grand jury here yesterday with conspiracy to smuggle minor Mexican girls and young Mexican women into the United States for the purpose of forcing them to engage in prostitution, announced U.S. Attorney Chuck Rosenberg, Southern District of Texas; Acting Assistant Attorney General Bradley J. Schlozman, Civil Rights Division of the Department of Justice; and Special Agent-in-Charge Bob Rutt, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) Office of Investigations in Houston.

This indictment is the result of an investigation conducted by ICE Houston special agents, the FBI, and other member agencies of the Human Trafficking Rescue Alliance (HTRA) in Houston, Texas.

The single-count indictment alleges that Gerardo Salazar, a Mexican national, also known as "El Gallo," 40, is the leader of a group of men who smuggled minor girls and young women from Mexico into the United States. Using deception, threats of harm, physical force and psychological coercion, Salazar compelled their service for prostitution in Houston-area bars. Gerardo Salazar is a fugitive; a warrant for his arrest is outstanding.

Gerardo Salazar's two nephews, Angel Moreno Salazar, 24, Jose Luis Moreno Salazar, 20, and an associate, Salvador Fernando Molina Garcia, 37, are accused members of the group alleged to have provided women, all Mexican nationals, for purposes of prostitution. Angel and Jose Luis Salazar, and Salvador Garcia, all Mexican nationals illegally in the United States, are in federal custody and will remain in federal custody pending trial. They are expected to appear in court next week for arraignment before a U.S. Magistrate Judge.

Federal law prohibits persons from conspiring to use force, fraud and coercion to cause persons to engage in commercial sex acts, or to knowingly cause persons who have not yet attained the age of 18 to engage in these commercial sex acts.

All four defendants are accused of conspiring together to (1) recruit, entice, harbor, transport, provide and obtain young Mexican women and girls, and benefiting financially from participating in a venture knowing that force, fraud and coercion would be used to cause the young Mexican women and girls to engage in commercial sex acts; and to (2) entice, harbor, transport, provide and obtain young Mexican women and girls, and benefit financially from participating in a venture knowing that the girls under the age of 18 years would be caused to engage in a commercial sex act.

According to allegations in the indictment, the conspiracy involved:

(3) smuggling or arranging to smuggle young Mexican women and minor girls into the U.S.;
(4) forcing the minor girls and women to engage in prostitution in bars in the U.S. using deception, threats of harm, physical force, psychological coercion to compel their service;
(5) requiring the minor girls and women to turn over their earnings to financially benefit the defendants;
(6) intimidating, threatening and coercing the young Mexican women and minor girls through beatings, threats of harm, close supervision and rules to maintain their services as prostitutes in their employ.

Gerardo Salazar is alleged to have placed two minor Mexican girls - ages 16 and 17 - into service as prostitutes in a Houston area bar, having beaten a third young Mexican woman for encouraging another girl to quit prostitution and leave; and having beaten a fourth young woman for not reporting a co-worker's mistakes to him. Initials identify all four victimized young Mexican nationals only.

Angel Salazar is alleged to have demanded that one of the young women turn her earnings from prostitution over to him at the end of each day. Salvador Garcia is alleged to have beaten yet another young Mexican woman because he believed she was concealing from him some of her earnings from prostitution. If convicted, each defendant faces a maximum penalty of five years imprisonment and a $250,000 fine.

Anyone having information about the whereabouts of Gerardo Salazar, aka. "El Gallo," is urged to contact the FBI in Houston, Texas, at (713) 693-5000, or their nearest FBI office.

Anyone having knowledge of others subjected to similarly described conduct are urged to contact the Houston office of the FBI at the above number, or the Human Trafficking Rescue Alliance through the Houston office of the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement at: 281-774-4900.

Assistant U.S. Attorneys Ruben R. Perez and Joe Magliolo of the U.S. Attorney's Office of the Southern District of Texas, and trial attorneys Lou DeBaca and Jennifer Dominguez of the Department of Justice, Civil Rights Division, will prosecute this case.

An indictment is a formal accusation of criminal conduct, not evidence. A defendant is presumed innocent unless and until convicted through due process of law.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 7:12:45 PM EDT
Immigration is great, that's what the country is founded on. However, they need to get in line like the rest of the people that came here legitimately. I have friends who immigrated from overseas and they took years to becomes citizens. They will be productive members of society.

If your first act on our soil is immigrating illegally you are already a criminal and you have already made the decision that you do not regard our laws with any respect. Yes it's true that they commit crimes because they are Mexico's impoverished underclass that they are actively trying to push out of their borders and into ours.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 7:25:38 PM EDT
BUMP
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 7:26:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2006 7:36:51 PM EDT by ProGunFemme]

Originally Posted By dolanp:
Immigration is great, that's what the country is founded on. However, they need to get in line like the rest of the people that came here legitimately. I have friends who immigrated from overseas and they took years to becomes citizens. They will be productive members of society.


Exactly why it's so upsetting to me personally. I hate having to tell the story about why I'm so passionate about this every time someone thinks they know all about illegal immigration. My mom spent thirteen months trying to get over here because she respected our immigration laws. My dad listens to cases every day about illegals committing crimes against our citizens here on the border. One point that the former DA here brought up a while back is that a lot of these people stake out houses and wait until they know that it's vacant before burglarizing it.


If your first act on our soil is immigrating illegally you are already a criminal and you have already made the decision that you do not regard our laws with any respect. Yes it's true that they commit crimes because they are Mexico's impoverished underclass that they are actively trying to push out of their borders and into ours.


And again you're right. And yeah, our own citizens are capable of the same crimes, aside from entering illegally. We can throw around numbers till kingdom come, but the fact of the matter is, as citizens, they actually ARE our problems. Illegal immigrants shouldn't be.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 8:06:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2006 8:10:43 PM EDT by chips]



ETA: nevermind...
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 8:13:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2006 8:14:08 PM EDT by ProGunFemme]
.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 8:16:42 PM EDT
And as we bicker, the invasion continues.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 8:16:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By C-4:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
All of the ills you cite can be found in the citizen population as well. You simply live in an area where you have a high per centage of illegal immigrants, so you zone in on reports involving that part of the population.



I'm rather disappointed in you. Usually you are oppressively pro-law, damned the consequences or how unconstitutional their enforcement may be. Now you are presented with criminals who convict themselves with prima facie evidence by merely being present in the U.S. without the required documents and you are making excuses for them. I want the old JBT tc556guy back.



He's only JBT when it's americans and gun owners in the cross hairs. For other cases, he's a regular phil donohue.

I can't believe he sticks his head in the sand. You want proof of illegal alien crime? It's all around. Look at the incarceration rates of illegal aliens in the LA county jail, the number of murder suspects who are illegal aliens, etc, etc, etc.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 8:23:37 PM EDT
I have started a campaign...a bit quiet, among alumni of UTSA to withhold alumni dues because of that HORRIBLE statue. Its an ugly reminder of violation of federal laws. Unfortunately, it is art that was paid for by private funds and as such, the university has no control of the statement of the "art".

So why not suggest a statue of General John Pershing? Or General Zachry Taylor? General Winfield Scott? Or Sam Walker, the ORIGINAL Texas Ranger.

How about WE get together and fund a statue of one of these important characters in the establishment of the State of Texas?

Link Posted: 3/12/2006 8:24:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
And as we bicker, the invasion continues.



The sad thing is, anyone who cares enough to combat that has a number of obstacles to overcome because they (illegals) are starting to be protected by a lot of our laws.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 8:27:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Keith_J:
I have started a campaign...a bit quiet, among alumni of UTSA to withhold alumni dues because of that HORRIBLE statue. Its an ugly reminder of violation of federal laws. Unfortunately, it is art that was paid for by private funds and as such, the university has no control of the statement of the "art".

So why not suggest a statue of General John Pershing? Or General Zachry Taylor? General Winfield Scott? Or Sam Walker, the ORIGINAL Texas Ranger.

How about WE get together and fund a statue of one of these important characters in the establishment of the State of Texas?




That's a good point. I guess I didn't hear the whole story on that. I thought the artist had just donated it after an art festival some years ago.

I like the idea, though. If enough other alumni can agree on who to commemorate, I'll gladly pitch in.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 3:04:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 22bad:
THAT WAS PROPAGANDA, YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING

I thought you were asking valid questions, you have blown that theory

FIND SOME ARREST RECORDS OF ILLEGALS, START WITH THE ONES RUNNING UNDERAGE BROTHELS IN HOUSTON

HERE IS A STARTING POINT, AN ICE GOVERNMENT WEBSITE DESCRIBING ILLEGAL ALIENS RUNNING AN UNDERAGE BROTHEL

DON'T BE ACCUSING ME OF MAKING THIS SHIT UP WHEN IT IS RIGHT FRIGGIN IN FRONT OF YOU


No one is denying that there are a per centage of illegal immigrants involved in crime. The source I quoted even admits that there are; the question is, is there more than the general population? Guys like you seize on examples of illegal immigrant crime as proof that there is this massive wave of illegal immigrant crime. The reality is probably more along the lines that you are simply sensitized to the issue, you live in an area where theres a high per centage of illegal immigrants, and you notice or look for examples to "prove" your case. Its simply an example of the "they aren't like us" hysteria that sweeps the country.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 3:06:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bastiat:
He's only JBT when it's americans and gun owners in the cross hairs. For other cases, he's a regular phil donohue.

I can't believe he sticks his head in the sand. You want proof of illegal alien crime? It's all around. Look at the incarceration rates of illegal aliens in the LA county jail, the number of murder suspects who are illegal aliens, etc, etc, etc.



Wrong

As for LAs incarceration rates, that proves nothing. LA is an area with a high percentage of illegal immigrant population. Of course you'll find illegal immigrants in its jail.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 3:09:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/13/2006 3:11:31 AM EDT by Polydude]

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By NonConformist:

So you SUPPORT Illegal Immigration? I suppose they are just law abiding people looking for a better life?


Not that I support illegal immigration, but I question the rationales used by some of those who oppose immigration, illegal or otherwise, and the way the system is set up that forces some to resort to illegal immigration instead of legal methods.



Dude, you are wasting your time. You are not going to convince a fanatic.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 3:13:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Polydude:
[Dude, you are wasting your time. You are not going to convince a fanatic.



I am aware of this.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 5:14:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ProGunFemme:

Originally Posted By Keith_J:
I have started a campaign...a bit quiet, among alumni of UTSA to withhold alumni dues because of that HORRIBLE statue. Its an ugly reminder of violation of federal laws. Unfortunately, it is art that was paid for by private funds and as such, the university has no control of the statement of the "art".

So why not suggest a statue of General John Pershing? Or General Zachry Taylor? General Winfield Scott? Or Sam Walker, the ORIGINAL Texas Ranger.

How about WE get together and fund a statue of one of these important characters in the establishment of the State of Texas?




That's a good point. I guess I didn't hear the whole story on that. I thought the artist had just donated it after an art festival some years ago.

I like the idea, though. If enough other alumni can agree on who to commemorate, I'll gladly pitch in.



The official alumni association is dead set against it. So it looks like it will have to be a grassroots program...I am thinking we could enlist the newly formed atheist student association to be our proxy . Well, that would be great if the atheists can shake their current problem, that being with their anti-ROP campaign.

That place is one hotbed of liberalism. Getting all the factions to attack each other would be golden.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:39:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Originally Posted By 22bad:
THAT WAS PROPAGANDA, YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING

I thought you were asking valid questions, you have blown that theory H
HERE IS A STARTING POINT, AN ICE GOVERNMENT WEBSITE DESCRIBING ILLEGAL ALIENS RUNNING AN UNDERAGE BROTHEL

DON'T BE ACCUSING ME OF MAKING THIS SHIT UP WHEN IT IS RIGHT FRIGGIN IN FRONT OF YOU


No one is denying that there are a per centage of illegal immigrants involved in crime. The source I quoted even admits that there are; the question is, is there more than the general population? Guys like you seize on examples of illegal immigrant crime as proof that there is this massive wave of illegal immigrant crime. The reality is probably more along the lines that you are simply sensitized to the issue, you live in an area where theres a high per centage of illegal immigrants, and you notice or look for examples to "prove" your case. Its simply an example of the "they aren't like us" hysteria that sweeps the country.



Maybe that is the case. But as I pointed out, the difference between "us" and "them" is that we hold ourselves responsible for prosecuting our own citizens. No matter how few or many illegals commit crime here, they should NOT be our problem as well.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:41:07 AM EDT
When when is the University of Louisiana going to erect a statue of Lootie?
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:49:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pathfinder74:
When when is the University of Louisiana going to erect a statue of Lootie?



I doubt they would. They all found it racist over there. I kinda did too after a while. I don't know enough about the story to know if this guy really did loot or if all that Heineken was all he could think to save from his home. If the latter, more power to him.

Anyway. I think they'll be erecting a statue of Ray Nagin instead because of all his heroism in the Katrina ordeal
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:19:59 AM EDT
Gòmez says that opposition to illegal immigration cannot look only at laws; those opposed must look at the human aspect as well. “How fair is it to demonize people just because they want to better their lives and their family’s?” she asked.

So if I go out and steal for the betterment of my family it is OK?
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:29:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ProGunFemme:
Anyway. I think they'll be erecting a statue of Ray Nagin instead because of all his heroism in the Katrina ordeal



That would be a bigger insult than a statue of Lootie. Not only to LA but to the rest of the country who had to pay for his fuck-ups and will be for a long time a coming.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:32:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hakim:
Gòmez says that opposition to illegal immigration cannot look only at laws; those opposed must look at the human aspect as well. “How fair is it to demonize people just because they want to better their lives and their family’s?” she asked.

So if I go out and steal for the betterment of my family it is OK?



What we fail to understand is the fact Mexico is a blighted shithole that causes their poorest people to flee the country when the middle and upper classes are completely comfortable living in this "blighted shithole".

Odd, isn't it? Not really. Mexico is far more racist, restrictive and socially divisive than anything ever seen in the United States. There is no hope for Mexico's poorest but here there is a far better chance. Because we have expansive social programs, ensuring even the poorest have enough food, shelter and medical care. And then there are no restrictions to employment like there is in Mexico.

But what these Hispanics need to realize is the problem is in Mexico and its corrupt, racist and socially opressive government. These illegals need to OVRETHROW THEIR government. But what the government of Mexico tells them is the farsical land of Aztlan is theirs for the taking.

Fuck, it is time to overthrow Mexico.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 4:00:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bastiat:

Originally Posted By C-4:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
All of the ills you cite can be found in the citizen population as well. You simply live in an area where you have a high per centage of illegal immigrants, so you zone in on reports involving that part of the population.



I'm rather disappointed in you. Usually you are oppressively pro-law, damned the consequences or how unconstitutional their enforcement may be. Now you are presented with criminals who convict themselves with prima facie evidence by merely being present in the U.S. without the required documents and you are making excuses for them. I want the old JBT tc556guy back.



He's only JBT when it's americans and gun owners in the cross hairs. For other cases, he's a regular phil donohue.

I can't believe he sticks his head in the sand. You want proof of illegal alien crime? It's all around. Look at the incarceration rates of illegal aliens in the LA county jail, the number of murder suspects who are illegal aliens, etc, etc, etc.



Thank you. I thought it was just me.

Link Posted: 4/9/2006 5:28:09 AM EDT
Statue update....

With all the fervor over immigration law, there is one student at UTSA that is using the (ugly) statue of the illegal border crosssing as the location to stage his hunger strike. This hapless student wants to effect an audience with the president of the university.

All of us in San Antonio need to help this guy. Go out and get a nice, rare Chester's burger and while standing upwind from him, proceed to eat this burger. Make sure you leave drippings on the concrete so this poor starving piece of offal will be reminded what good food smells like.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 6:57:52 AM EDT
TC556: It is because THEY ARE NOT LIKE US!

WE...follow laws to a tee , THEY break them.

Just imagine...if WE started to disregaurd law!!!!!!
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 7:31:55 AM EDT
IBTL
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 11:03:41 AM EDT
Examples of illegal immigrant crime?

In my state an illegal immigrants cannot get a drivers license. So 100% of illegal immigrant drivers are in violation of CVC 12500(a) or CVC 14601.1(a).

Since illegal immigrants cannot get a SSN 100% of illegal immigrant workers are violating tax laws.

Now can you think of any laws that 100% of US born workers or drivers are violating?
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 11:07:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
No one is denying that there are a per centage of illegal immigrants involved in crime. The source I quoted even admits that there are; the question is, is there more than the general population?



Yes, for certain crimes like illegal border crossing, unlicensed driver, tax evasion, identity theft.

The general population doesnt commit any crime by simply going to work. A illegal immigrant commits several simply doing the same thing. Driving to work unlicensed and uninsured, working under an assumed name with a stolen or fraudulant SSN.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 5:52:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DougH9:
TC556: It is because THEY ARE NOT LIKE US!

WE...follow laws to a tee , THEY break them.

Just imagine...if WE started to disregaurd law!!!!!!



Since illegals are not the only ones being arrested, obviously Americans don't follow laws toa tee.
The others responding have cited Federal alws; I was thinking state and local laws. The stuff I would be dealing with every day.
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