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Posted: 3/8/2006 7:01:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2006 7:19:31 PM EDT by Cableman]
Scientists have produced superheated gas exceeding temperatures of 2 billion degrees Kelvin, or 3.6 billion degrees Fahrenheit.

This is hotter than the interior of our sun, which is about 15 million degrees Kelvin, and also hotter than any previous temperature ever achieved on Earth, they say.

They don't know how they did it.

The feat was accomplished in the Z machine at Sandia National Laboratories.

"At first, we were disbelieving," said project leader Chris Deeney. "We repeated the experiment many times to make sure we had a true result."

Thermonuclear explosions are estimated to reach only tens to hundreds of millions of degrees Kelvin; other nuclear fusion experiments have achieved temperatures of about 500 million degrees Kelvin, said a spokesperson at the lab.

The achievement was detailed in the Feb. 24 issue of the journal Physical Review Letters.

The Z machine is the largest X-ray generator in the world. It’s designed to test materials under extreme temperatures and pressures. It works by releasing 20 million amps of electricity into a vertical array of very fine tungsten wires. The wires dissolve into a cloud of charged particles, a superheated gas called plasma.

A very strong magnetic field compresses the plasma into the thickness of a pencil lead. This causes the plasma to release energy in the form of X-rays, but the X-rays are usually only several million degrees.

Sandia researchers still aren’t sure how the machine achieved the new record. Part of it is probably due to the replacement of the tungsten steel wires with slightly thicker steel wires, which allow the plasma ions to travel faster and thus achieve higher temperatures.

One thing that puzzles scientists is that the high temperature was achieved after the plasma’s ions should have been losing energy and cooling. Also, when the high temperature was achieved, the Z machine was releasing more energy than was originally put in, something that usually occurs only in nuclear reactions.

Sandia consultant Malcolm Haines theorizes that some unknown energy source is involved, which is providing the machine with an extra jolt of energy just as the plasma ions are beginning to slow down.

Sandia National Laboratories is located by Albuquerque New Mexico and is part of the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE).
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:02:26 PM EDT
flamers
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:07:36 PM EDT
Awesome.

Always something new to learn.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:08:41 PM EDT
Just wait, Sandia has some kewl projects in store this year to test on the Z-Machine, specifically Heim Quantum theory, which if proven, means that we will have massless space craft propulsion and faster then light travel alot sooner then anyone though. (IE our lifetimes)
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:09:22 PM EDT
So,what can we destroy with that?we could melt ants or something.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:09:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cableman:


Sandia consultant Malcolm Haines theorizes that some unknown energy source is involved, which is providing the machine with an extra jolt of energy just as the plasma ions are beginning to slow down.






Extra energy out of thin air ! It's amazing !

Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:09:47 PM EDT
That's hotter than a Taco Hell/cheap beer fart.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:10:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Armed_Scientist:
Just wait, Sandia has some kewl projects in store this year to test on the Z-Machine, specifically Heim Quantum theory, which if proven, means that we will have massless space craft propulsion and faster then light travel alot sooner then anyone though. (IE our lifetimes)



Oh, wicked.

Details (that won't make our heads pop)?
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:10:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2006 7:12:29 PM EDT by jj01]
Be careful kid you'll set the world on fire with that thing.

SO, how do we weaponize it? That's the really important question.



ETA: gald dang spellin krap
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:10:44 PM EDT



Sandia researchers still aren’t sure how the machine achieved the new record.




That's great - they ACCIDENTALLY created temperatures several times hotter than a thermonuclear bomb, and aren't sure how it happend?? These are the kinds of idiots that are accidentally going to create a black hole in some lab somewhere, and kill us all.

Still - beats being eaten alive by zombies.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:10:48 PM EDT
So, this will blow away the 40 watt plasma rifle?
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:10:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 223-Buckaroo:

Originally Posted By Cableman:


Sandia consultant Malcolm Haines theorizes that some unknown energy source is involved, which is providing the machine with an extra jolt of energy just as the plasma ions are beginning to slow down.






Extra energy out of thin air ! It's amazing !





What?
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:11:02 PM EDT
3.6 billion degrees. Accidently.

I swear there's a B-list sci-fi movie about this.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:12:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cableman:
Also, when the high temperature was achieved, the Z machine was releasing more energy than was originally put in, something that usually occurs only in nuclear reactions.



Interesting, having a net gain of energy...
Good work guys, now do it again and make it useable to generate electricity.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:13:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Wingnut116ACW:

Originally Posted By Cableman:
Also, when the high temperature was achieved, the Z machine was releasing more energy than was originally put in, something that usually occurs only in nuclear reactions.



Interesting, having a net gain of energy...
Good work guys, now do it again and make it useable to generate electricity.



Yep, get that going and we don't need to worry about energy anymore.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:14:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Armed_Scientist:
Just wait, Sandia has some kewl projects in store this year to test on the Z-Machine, specifically Heim Quantum theory, which if proven, means that we will have massless space craft propulsion and faster then light travel alot sooner then anyone though. (IE our lifetimes)



Einstein would be dumbfounded, yet proud.

This is great stuff.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:15:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
These are the kinds of idiots that are accidentally going to create a black hole in some lab somewhere, and kill us all.




I guess you aren't keeping up with current experiments.

Scientists are working on making black holes in labs.

The world science consortium (sp?) decided the risk of the Earth falling into
a man-made black hole was minimal, because the black hole wouldn't last long
enough to suck in any matter, and would thus wink out in an instant.

(I'm crossing my fingers they are right, and a super-dork doesn't poke it with a pencil)
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:15:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2006 7:16:37 PM EDT by Mr45auto]

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:



Sandia researchers still aren’t sure how the machine achieved the new record.




That's great - they ACCIDENTALLY created temperatures several times hotter than a thermonuclear bomb, and aren't sure how it happend?? These are the kinds of idiots that are accidentally going to create a black hole in some lab somewhere, and kill us all.

Still - beats being eaten alive by zombies.



One of these days .........

Oh shit, we just turned the population into zombies and the earth will become another sun in the next 5 minutes......
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:15:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:



Sandia researchers still aren’t sure how the machine achieved the new record.




That's great - they ACCIDENTALLY created temperatures several times hotter than a thermonuclear bomb, and aren't sure how it happend?? These are the kinds of idiots that are accidentally going to create a black hole in some lab somewhere, and kill us all.

Still - beats being eaten alive by zombies.



There are black holes being made all over Earth...in particle accelerators (atom smashers).

Granted, they are small and dissipate extremely quickly, but still...
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:16:14 PM EDT
How do you contain that type of heat?

The duration must have been very short.

Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:17:17 PM EDT
Thems edumacated dummies are gonna kill us all.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:17:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fike:
How do you contain that type of heat?

The duration must have been very short.





Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:18:32 PM EDT
Very interesting to see what this results in. Its this kind of "hey, what was that?" stuff that results in huge advances.



Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:19:40 PM EDT
... No generation in human existence has experienced the degree of technological advances as those enjoyed by us.

... It's so beautiful, awesome, mind-boggling and abstract that kids these days take it for granted. For me, the sciences literally give me goosebumps and chills of excitement - Yes, I'm a nerd, I know.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:21:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fike:
How do you contain that type of heat?

The duration must have been very short.




Ice cubes jackass.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:21:07 PM EDT
now all they have to do is turn it into a freaking laser
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:22:28 PM EDT
I talked briefly about this with Fizzassist (I'm sure you guys remember him here) several months ago. We didn't talk about the Sandia accelerator in particular, but he enlightened me on the advances achieved by nuclear physicists using varied techniques. Amazing.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:23:41 PM EDT
I'm reminded of portions of the urban myths surrounding Tesla...

Oh BTW:


www.sandia.gov/media/z290.htm
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:24:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Reaper:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
These are the kinds of idiots that are accidentally going to create a black hole in some lab somewhere, and kill us all.




I guess you aren't keeping up with current experiments.

Scientists are working on making black holes in labs.

The world science consortium (sp?) decided the risk of the Earth falling into
a man-made black hole was minimal, because the black hole wouldn't last long
enough to suck in any matter, and would thus wink out in an instant.

(I'm crossing my fingers they are right, and a super-dork doesn't poke it with a pencil)




The latter part is what I am worried about.

I was originally going to go into high-energy physics, and knew people both at the DESY facility in Hamburg (Germany) and some of the professors at the Niels Bohr institute in Copenhagen - but then my life ended up going in a different direction.

You're correct that I haven't kept up, but I am somewhat familiar with some of the work that is being done in colliders, and the types of short-lives particles and events that only exists for fractions of seconds, and can only be picked up by super-sensitive detectors.

My concern is precisely something like this example - where they accidentally created something that was many times hotter than what they expected. What happens when a lab accidentally creates some black-holey thing that is many times larger than they expected. "Whoopsies - sorry everyone. It SHOULD have just EVAPORATED, but it ended up beign larger than we planned, and now it fell down to the core of the planet and is growing."



Yeah - I know. Almost certainly just the fevered imaginations of sci-fi and doomsayers, but you never know.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:26:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By leakycow:
I talked briefly about this with Fizzassist




Where's he at - haven't seen him posting in a while? I loved his posts, and they'd be much appreciated in a thread like this.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:26:51 PM EDT
Heck Chuck Norris's microwave gets to 4 billion degree's.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:30:01 PM EDT
[ParisHilton] That's hot [/ParisHilton}
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:30:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By leakycow:
I talked briefly about this with Fizzassist




Where's he at - haven't seen him posting in a while? I loved his posts, and they'd be much appreciated in a thread like this.



He posted a good-bye message in Team a month or two back. Honestly, I don't know why he left. Just an ARFCOM acquaintance of his, not a personal friend.

Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:31:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By leakycow:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By leakycow:
I talked briefly about this with Fizzassist




Where's he at - haven't seen him posting in a while? I loved his posts, and they'd be much appreciated in a thread like this.



He posted a good-bye message in Team a month or two back. Honestly, I don't know why he left. Just an ARFCOM acquaintance of his, not a personal friend.





That's too bad. Hopefully he'll be back someday.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:35:12 PM EDT
How much is one of those Z machines? I have room in my safe if it isnt too big.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:40:45 PM EDT
That will make an awesome bug zapper.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:42:07 PM EDT
Let's do what we always do - turn it into a weapon of unimaginary power.

Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:55:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:


The latter part is what I am worried about.

I was originally going to go into high-energy physics, and knew people both at the DESY facility in Hamburg (Germany) and some of the professors at the Niels Bohr institute in Copenhagen - but then my life ended up going in a different direction.

You're correct that I haven't kept up, but I am somewhat familiar with some of the work that is being done in colliders, and the types of short-lives particles and events that only exists for fractions of seconds, and can only be picked up by super-sensitive detectors.

My concern is precisely something like this example - where they accidentally created something that was many times hotter than what they expected. What happens when a lab accidentally creates some black-holey thing that is many times larger than they expected. "Whoopsies - sorry everyone. It SHOULD have just EVAPORATED, but it ended up beign larger than we planned, and now it fell down to the core of the planet and is growing."



Yeah - I know. Almost certainly just the fevered imaginations of sci-fi and doomsayers, but you never know.



2X4 and some rope will keep ya from falling in....
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 8:02:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:


These are the kinds of idiots that are accidentally going to create a black hole in some lab somewhere, and kill us all.




No no no, you are looking at this all wrong. Look on the bright side, before it grew large enough to envelop the earth and end all life, we'd at least have a place to throw all our trash. It'd be the ultimate trash compactor, everything to a single point of infinite mass.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 8:04:00 PM EDT


Link Posted: 3/8/2006 8:34:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

The latter part is what I am worried about.




... I liken that worry of yours to the "safely living on the porch" all your life concept.

... Life will end for us all someday, being afraid of the unknown is a sorry excuse for not pushing the envelop the searching the unknown.

... Your theory is as about as plausible as those some worry-warts thinking we'd be luring in evil extra-terrestrials in the exploration of the heavens - that's just a risk I'm willing to take to understand the mysteries of the universe.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 8:41:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

The latter part is what I am worried about.




... I liken that worry of yours to the "safely living on the porch" all your life concept.

... Life will end for us all someday, being afraid of the unknown is a sorry excuse for not pushing the envelop the searching the unknown.

... Your theory is as about as plausible as those some worry-warts thinking we'd be luring in evil extra-terrestrials in the exploration of the heavens - that's just a risk I'm willing to take to understand the mysteries of the universe.




No no - please don't get me wrong. I am a HUGE proponent of exploration of this nature. Like I stated earlier, my original career plan was to go into high-energy physics and work on this very kind of stuff.

I'm just saying that it worries me when the people that are supposed to be understanding this stuff say "whoops - we have no idea how we got something to be several hundred millions degrees hotter than we expected" (and I acknowledge that most of my imagined concerns are pure science fiction)
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 8:46:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

The latter part is what I am worried about.




... I liken that worry of yours to the "safely living on the porch" all your life concept.

... Life will end for us all someday, being afraid of the unknown is a sorry excuse for not pushing the envelop the searching the unknown.

... Your theory is as about as plausible as those some worry-warts thinking we'd be luring in evil extra-terrestrials in the exploration of the heavens - that's just a risk I'm willing to take to understand the mysteries of the universe.




No no - please don't get me wrong. I am a HUGE proponent of exploration of this nature. Like I stated earlier, my original career plan was to go into high-energy physics and work on this very kind of stuff.

I'm just saying that it worries me when the people that are supposed to be understanding this stuff say "whoops - we have no idea how we got something to be several hundred millions degrees hotter than we expected" (and I acknowledge that most of my imagined concerns are pure science fiction)



Pretty much every major innovation is the result of the "whoops" effect.

Electronics, Chemicals, you name it.

Most of the biggies are accidents.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 8:51:10 PM EDT
We've got the power supply, lets get hot building the rest of the Death Star.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 8:56:04 PM EDT



One thing that puzzles scientists is that the high temperature was achieved after the plasma’s ions should have been losing energy and cooling. Also, when the high temperature was achieved, the Z machine was releasing more energy than was originally put in, something that usually occurs only in nuclear reactions.

Sandia consultant Malcolm Haines theorizes that some unknown energy source is involved, which is providing the machine with an extra jolt of energy just as the plasma ions are beginning to slow down.

Sandia National Laboratories is located by Albuquerque New Mexico and is part of the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE).



fascinating.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 9:02:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fike:
How do you contain that type of heat?

The duration must have been very short.





It's suspended as plasma and surrounded by a magnetic field IIRC.

Link Posted: 3/8/2006 9:02:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2006 9:03:54 PM EDT by sWs2]
Semi off topic:
Heard on the BBC world service today that they have some fusion method using tritium (made from lithium) and some hydrogen isotope. One notable quote was "half a bath of water and a lithium laptop battery" could produce 2000 kWh of electricity. Who knows if it will ever be more than lab work and theories though.
ETA: this fusion method they were talking of also required a large and very strong magnetic field to contain it since it was so hot.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 9:04:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sub-MOA:


Most of the biggies are accidents.



Like peanut butter reeses.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 9:14:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LVMIKE:

Originally Posted By Sub-MOA:


Most of the biggies are accidents.



Like peanut butter reeses.



Like the transistor, Lexan, Nylon, LSD, Radioactivity, Radio, Optics, Electric current, Penicillin, nerve impulses, vaccination, electromagnetism… I could go on.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 9:24:22 PM EDT
This is the single best piece of news I have heard all year. If there really is a net energy gain then either:

a) Some material (ambient hydrogen?) is being fused in the process and releasing more energy, which could be sustainable to create a power source

b) Some totally new facet of nature is at play here that will result in new theories and new scientific advances of unimaginable power. Like maybe breast implants that don't look like pink balloons.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 9:27:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By enigma2y0u:

Originally Posted By fike:
How do you contain that type of heat?

The duration must have been very short.




Ice cubes jackass.





I love it!!!!
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