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Posted: 3/8/2006 2:21:21 PM EDT
OK...Frangible Bullets are designed to penetrate flesh but disintegrate when they come into contact with hard surfaces.

So what happens to a frangible bullet when it hit's bone?

The obvious answer would be that it would disintegrate right? But what good is that? If you are shooting for COM on a badguy then you are shooting at an area that has alot of bone. Are you supposed to hope that the frangible bullet passes between your target's ribs?

I've heard that air marshals are using frangible bullets to prevent over penetration if they need to shoot someone on an airplane. I don't see logically how this will stop an attacker though. Do I have it all wrong here?
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 2:29:27 PM EDT
Have you seen the Discovery Channel or one of those that compares the damage inflicted by green frangibles versus standard hollow points?

They shot like 5 pounds of raw meat with each.

The hollow points did what was expected and had pretty decent effect.

The frangibles basically blasted the meat into shreads...it looked like carne asada. The damage was amazing.

That being said, I would rather be hit with a hollow point in a rib than a frangible.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 2:31:08 PM EDT
If they work anything like CCI Stingers, they'll destroy lots of stuff inside without having a solid bullet fly out the back. OTOH, I know guys who have shot coyotes with ballistic tips and not recovered them. They sid they'd hit a shoulder, and the bullet didn't do enough damage to drop them. ( I always question why some hunters aim for shoulders, but that's not the question here).
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 2:31:35 PM EDT
That's the point.....

We did tests shooting through a windsheild at a class I did, and,
frangable looked like birdshot after shootin through a window.


I would not give two fucks for frangable ammo.

It is the most useless stuff ever, AFAIK.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 2:31:38 PM EDT
go check out mag safes, they are basicly a jacket filled with fine bird shot. they basicly turn what ever they hit in to ground meat for a depth of 6 to 8 inches. when they hit something solid like wood they break up so you have several smaller lower energy stuff flying. also they dump all of thier energy in the target not out the back of it.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 2:37:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Goonboss:
That's the point.....

We did tests shooting through a windsheild at a class I did, and,
frangable looked like birdshot after shootin through a window.


I would not give two fucks for frangable ammo.

It is the most useless stuff ever, AFAIK.



I would expect it come apart if you were shooting at a windshield, and I wouldn't try and shoot someone through a windshiel with a frangible round.

In a apartment or a house though a frangible bullet might be the perfect solution. If it can penetrate the rib cage that is.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 2:40:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GoGop:
If they work anything like CCI Stingers, they'll destroy lots of stuff inside without having a solid bullet fly out the back. OTOH, I know guys who have shot coyotes with ballistic tips and not recovered them. They sid they'd hit a shoulder, and the bullet didn't do enough damage to drop them. ( I always question why some hunters aim for shoulders, but that's not the question here).

A shoulder hit will break the shoulder joint and move into the upper portion of the lung as well as hit parts of the CNS and the upper aorta. On dangerous game (large bears, lions ect.) you don't want you first shot to hit anywhere BUT the shoulder. Breaking bone is a good thing.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 2:40:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2006 2:41:59 PM EDT by motown_steve]

Originally Posted By scotty1911:
go check out mag safes, they are basicly a jacket filled with fine bird shot. they basicly turn what ever they hit in to ground meat for a depth of 6 to 8 inches. when they hit something solid like wood they break up so you have several smaller lower energy stuff flying. also they dump all of thier energy in the target not out the back of it.



There are only 4 rounds available for the caliber that I'm thinking of (.499 L-W). Frangible, FMJ and 2 types of hollow points. The FMJ and the Hollow points are certain to over penetrate.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 2:41:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By scotty1911:
go check out mag safes, they are basicly a jacket filled with fine bird shot. they basicly turn what ever they hit in to ground meat for a depth of 6 to 8 inches. when they hit something solid like wood they break up so you have several smaller lower energy stuff flying. also they dump all of thier energy in the target not out the back of it.




If you want to fire a shotgun type round, use a shotgun.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 2:42:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
In a apartment or a house though a frangible bullet might be the perfect solution. If it can penetrate the rib cage that is.




+10^9
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 2:43:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By Goonboss:
That's the point.....

We did tests shooting through a windsheild at a class I did, and,
frangable looked like birdshot after shootin through a window.


I would not give two fucks for frangable ammo.

It is the most useless stuff ever, AFAIK.



I would expect it come apart if you were shooting at a windshield, and I wouldn't try and shoot someone through a windshiel with a frangible round.

In a apartment or a house though a frangible bullet might be the perfect solution. If it can penetrate the rib cage that is.



I will leave it to you.

I will never use franable ammo.

I've lost any confidence in it.

If you feel it's best for you, then, good.

I'm not going to fight about it.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 2:44:19 PM EDT
Wont the sheer energy of the round stopping with ANY round be enough to drop a perp? Even when people have vests on they fall.

Link Posted: 3/8/2006 2:50:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Goonboss:

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By Goonboss:
That's the point.....

We did tests shooting through a windsheild at a class I did, and,
frangable looked like birdshot after shootin through a window.


I would not give two fucks for frangable ammo.

It is the most useless stuff ever, AFAIK.



I would expect it come apart if you were shooting at a windshield, and I wouldn't try and shoot someone through a windshiel with a frangible round.

In a apartment or a house though a frangible bullet might be the perfect solution. If it can penetrate the rib cage that is.



I will leave it to you.

I will never use franable ammo.

I've lost any confidence in it.

If you feel it's best for you, then, good.

I'm not going to fight about it.



I'm not trying to fight about it. I'm just saying that I would expect a frangible round to fall apart against certain surfaces. After all, it is designed to prevent over penetration. If you have to shoot through a windshield or stell then a heavy lead core bullet is definately in order. No argument there. That doesn't necessarily mean that frangible ammo would be useless in a CQB/Home defense scenario.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 2:51:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast:
Wont the sheer energy of the round stopping with ANY round be enough to drop a perp? Even when people have vests on they fall.




Maybe, but do you want them to get back up? I don't.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 2:54:27 PM EDT
Get your hands on some Green Shield frangibles, test them for yourself, then decide.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 2:55:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast:
Wont the sheer energy of the round stopping with ANY round be enough to drop a perp? Even when people have vests on they fall.




No. Tissue destruction is the only means of incapacitation. Whether it is destroyed by crush cavities or hydrostatic shock is the question.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 2:56:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By scotty1911:
go check out mag safes, they are basicly a jacket filled with fine bird shot. they basicly turn what ever they hit in to ground meat for a depth of 6 to 8 inches. when they hit something solid like wood they break up so you have several smaller lower energy stuff flying. also they dump all of thier energy in the target not out the back of it.



There is a reason that the FBI/IWBA required 12-18" of penetration. Some people are thick, and 6-8 inches is not anywhere NEAR their vitals.
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