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Posted: 3/5/2006 5:54:27 AM EDT
Of those confiscated weapons that are going to be ordered retured to their rightful owners, how many are already in the private collections of LEO's that confiscated them?

Now, before anyone cries JBT basher, we have a basis for this... If cops in NOLA were willing to loot stores and steal vehicles from car dealerships, shaking down a rich suburbanite for his prize Perazzi hunting shotgun in the name of 'public safety' and keeping them is surely not a stretch. Again, not all cops are bad, but clearly, too many in NOLA were.

30%?
20%?
45%?
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 6:04:51 AM EDT
I'd bet there's an awful lot of that nobody got a reciept for. No reciept no gun. There's probably more than one that's been unlawfully acquired by a dishonest LEO
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 6:05:19 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 6:23:17 AM EDT
I think many different LE agencies from all over the USofA were in NOLA trying help out wherever they could, and many of the personel didn't know the laws in NOLA(ie know what was legal and illegal firearms), and I am speculating that many of those out of state LE enforced the laws that were in effect in their home state rather than the laws there were in effect in LA & New Orleans because there was nothing else to go by.

I bet in the confusion NOLAPD doesn't even know whom exactly was in NOLA, I would agree with Mike(The_Beer_Slayer) that probably the guns that got confiscated are probably gone for ever, stolen under the pre-text of public safety. It doesn't matter what the judge says, 99% of ownership is possession.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 7:08:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/5/2006 7:14:01 AM EDT by TheOtherDave]

Originally Posted By warlord:
I think many different LE agencies from all over the USofA were in NOLA trying help out wherever they could, and many of the personel didn't know the laws in NOLA(ie know what was legal and illegal firearms), and I am speculating that many of those out of state LE enforced the laws that were in effect in their home state rather than the laws there were in effect in LA & New Orleans because there was nothing else to go by.

I bet in the confusion NOLAPD doesn't even know whom exactly was in NOLA, I would agree with Mike(The_Beer_Slayer) that probably the guns that got confiscated are probably gone for ever, stolen under the pre-text of public safety. It doesn't matter what the judge says, 99% of ownership is possession.



I suspect you are right, but it would be interesting to see if the people who managed to retain serial numbers for insurance purposes were to report them stolen, what would happen. No intelligent cop who worked in NOLA is going to keep a hot gun with a serial # traceable to an owner there, so I suspect a these guns would mysteriously turn up in faraway states like NY where the officers went home with their booty.

ETA: I call BULLSHIT on cops knowing what a legal and illegal gun is. They surely would have been briefed when coming in to help as to what role armed civilians would play in the coming weeks because there were potentially millions of them to be dealt with. That argument is like having a cop come to my town to help police the Woodward Dream Cruise and start stealing cars to take home because he didn't know which ones were properly registered...

Bad cops aren't dumb. Good cops aren't dumb. And a good cop wouldn't take a man's right to defend himself away in a situation like NOLA unless he had a good reason to (and I don't mean the Mayors reasons) or had to secure the weapon to move the people to safety-which was not the case often.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 7:12:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/5/2006 7:16:38 AM EDT by warlord]
TheOtherDave: Yep, I bet there are some people that will report their guns stolen, but sad to say I think it will a very small minority because many of those people were poor, and in the confusion and life & death situation getting their guns back would probably be the least of their worries.

We have the luxury of analyzing the heck out of the NOLA/Katrina catastrophe because our loved ones are safe and sound, and your place be it apartment or house or whatever is in decent shape. The unfortunate people in NOLA had their houses up to their arm pits in sewage and whatever tainted water with probably zero insurance.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 7:16:44 AM EDT
Hell, I'm sure a few were just tossed into the floodwater. It's alot easier to due that than keep track of them. Just think, by the time the floodwaters went down, you'd be outta there and some passer-by would just scoop it up.

"Hey look, a rusty gun." [throws it back down on the ground]

Link Posted: 3/5/2006 7:26:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/5/2006 7:27:19 AM EDT by Yossarian]
What everyone is saying is likely true to some extent or another. The point, however, I think most LE down there were there to sincerlry help. I would imagine the ones that were "bad" to begin with are the ones guilty of the confiscation/theft.

But that is not the main point. I am sure NRA knows that most of the guns are gone and will not be returned. What they are trying to do is make an example of this. For those of that understand what took place it is a no brainer, but for your everyday average gun owner, they may not know the extent of the confiscation. And even these guys, while many may not like the EBR, they will understand if something like this happens in their neck of the woods, they could loose their hunting rifles, shotguns, and handguns.

To get them on board and understanding how bad the situation can get for gunowners of all stripes is the intent.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 7:29:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By warlord:
I think many different LE agencies from all over the USofA were in NOLA trying help out wherever they could, and many of the personel didn't know the laws in NOLA(ie know what was legal and illegal firearms), and I am speculating that many of those out of state LE enforced the laws that were in effect in their home state rather than the laws there were in effect in LA & New Orleans because there was nothing else to go by.

I bet in the confusion NOLAPD doesn't even know whom exactly was in NOLA, I would agree with Mike(The_Beer_Slayer) that probably the guns that got confiscated are probably gone for ever, stolen under the pre-text of public safety. It doesn't matter what the judge says, 99% of ownership is possession.



During the days following Katrina - no firearms were legal.
JBTs confiscated everything.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 7:39:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/5/2006 7:40:52 AM EDT by 3rdpig]
Everyone who lived in NOLA at the time of the flood who retained their weapons should cover their guns in cosmoline, seal them in a plastic bag, bury them and report them as stolen.

One evil deed deserves another in my book.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 7:44:09 AM EDT
I like your thinking, bro!
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 7:47:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:

ETA: I call BULLSHIT on cops knowing what a legal and illegal gun is. They surely would have been briefed when coming in to help as to what role armed civilians would play in the coming weeks because there were potentially millions of them to be dealt with. That argument is like having a cop come to my town to help police the Woodward Dream Cruise and start stealing cars to take home because he didn't know which ones were properly registered...




Think again. I don't know about NOLA, but when my brother was in MS, confusion was king. There were deputies telling residents that until order was restored, the best method for dealing with looters was to shoot them in the leg and drop them in the next county over.

There were absolutely no rules of engagement during this disaster, because nobody had ever really drilled for something like this.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 7:48:41 AM EDT
Nagin and Riley should be imprisoned for the violations of those law abiding gun owners' divil rights! The Federal Government should be holding them criminally liable, not the NRA filing a civil suit!

The only thing that will stop this happening the next time is jail time for the prepatrators of these crimes!
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 7:57:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By warlord:
I think many different LE agencies from all over the USofA were in NOLA trying help out wherever they could, and many of the personel didn't know the laws in NOLA(ie know what was legal and illegal firearms), and I am speculating that many of those out of state LE enforced the laws that were in effect in their home state rather than the laws there were in effect in LA & New Orleans because there was nothing else to go by.......................



Probably. I think the guys who rousted the old woman in her home were CHIPS. Correct me if I'm wrong. Not from a "gun friendly" part of the country, and I recall Nagan making statements that firearms would be confiscated. Ignorant people need to be educated.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 7:58:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/5/2006 8:01:51 AM EDT by warlord]

Originally Posted By MudFlapper:
Hell, I'm sure a few were just tossed into the floodwater. It's alot easier to due that than keep track of them. Just think, by the time the floodwaters went down, you'd be outta there and some passer-by would just scoop it up.

"Hey look, a rusty gun." [throws it back down on the ground]



Yep, we already seen the effects of the toxic soup/water that was at NOLA. In a previous posting, a gun shop show what's left of the guns that they had in stock, the guns show signs of corrosion. For those that missed it, it wasn't very pretty. The gunstore owner probably lost at least 50% of the value of his inventory that was left.



Originally Posted By Yossarian:
.
.
But that is not the main point. I am sure NRA knows that most of the guns are gone and will not be returned. What they are trying to do is make an example of this. For those of that understand what took place it is a no brainer, but for your everyday average gun owner, they may not know the extent of the confiscation. And even these guys, while many may not like the EBR, they will understand if something like this happens in their neck of the woods, they could loose their hunting rifles, shotguns, and handguns.

To get them on board and understanding how bad the situation can get for gunowners of all stripes is the intent.


I would agree, for all practical purposes the people of NOLA who got their guns confiscated by the JBTs are gone. The NRA just wants to show the world that they are doing something about the gun confiscation even though it is just theoretical at this point.

So let all lawful gunners be aware, in a SHTF-condition ie NOLA/Hurricane Katrina, '94 L.A. riots etc; all people seen with a gun(s) will be considered criminals by the authorities(ie civilian and govt), and be subject confiscation.

I had a serious debate with a Calif LE-type person on this forum that people's guns weren't confiscated in the '94 L.A. riots, and that person because strangely silent when guns were being confiscated in NOLA during Hurricane Katrina.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 8:06:12 AM EDT
The cops that stole the guns should be prosecuted for the thefts. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 8:14:46 AM EDT
The agencies to which the gun snatcher5s were TDY'ed will be liable for the seizures. The owners will only have to prove the existence and swiping of the guns and the identity of the swipers by a preponderance of the evidence. For some that'll be impossible; for others, no problem at all.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 8:18:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15:
The cops that stole the guns should be prosecuted for the thefts. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.




I agree - and as far as "they didn't know", and "went by the laws of their home state" - that's a load of bullshit... Here's a clue: when enforcing "the law" - unless one is 100% certain of what the law ACTUALLY IS, don't try to enforce what you *think* it is, or what you think it *oughta be*...



- georgestrings
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 8:20:57 AM EDT
I read an account by someone or other that said when they confiscated weapons they were stripping them and throwing them in the water.



Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:

Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:

ETA: I call BULLSHIT on cops knowing what a legal and illegal gun is. They surely would have been briefed when coming in to help as to what role armed civilians would play in the coming weeks because there were potentially millions of them to be dealt with. That argument is like having a cop come to my town to help police the Woodward Dream Cruise and start stealing cars to take home because he didn't know which ones were properly registered...




Think again. I don't know about NOLA, but when my brother was in MS, confusion was king. There were deputies telling residents that until order was restored, the best method for dealing with looters was to shoot them in the leg and drop them in the next county over.

There were absolutely no rules of engagement during this disaster, because nobody had ever really drilled for something like this.



That's fucked up. Shoot someone in the leg in that environment and (assuming you miss the femoral artery) they'll be dead of gangrene in a week. Might as well just shoot them for real and get it over with.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 8:35:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheSneak:
I read an account by someone or other that said when they confiscated weapons they were stripping them and throwing them in the water.



Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:

Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:

ETA: I call BULLSHIT on cops knowing what a legal and illegal gun is. They surely would have been briefed when coming in to help as to what role armed civilians would play in the coming weeks because there were potentially millions of them to be dealt with. That argument is like having a cop come to my town to help police the Woodward Dream Cruise and start stealing cars to take home because he didn't know which ones were properly registered...




Think again. I don't know about NOLA, but when my brother was in MS, confusion was king. There were deputies telling residents that until order was restored, the best method for dealing with looters was to shoot them in the leg and drop them in the next county over.

There were absolutely no rules of engagement during this disaster, because nobody had ever really drilled for something like this.



That's fucked up. Shoot someone in the leg in that environment and (assuming you miss the femoral artery) they'll be dead of gangrene in a week. Might as well just shoot them for real and get it over with.



He said the levels of professionalism went from absolutely top-rate with some of the people they worked with, to unbelievable.
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