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Posted: 3/2/2006 1:38:52 PM EDT
Did these bikes ever take off with customers?

I was browsing cycle trader and I see ads for them as clearanced.reduced. sale. got to go!

As a rider, I haven't seen too many on the road.

So, was this bike a commercial flop?
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 4:16:05 PM EDT
I wouldn't say it was a flop, but it sure isn't for the HD faithful.

There is a two-fold purpose for the V-Rod - 1) draw metric riders to the HD camp based on good performance (HD actually blindsided the imports - outdoing them in HP) and 2) Give them a solid footing in watercooled for the inevitable day (whenever that is) that air-cooled can no longer meet EPA standards.

When air-cooled is no longer acceptable to the EPA, you'll probably see some water cooled version of the old 45 degree V.

The V-Rod offers better performance out of the box and HD is now offering several V-Rod based models, but I don't think they'll ever sell in numbers like the venerable Big Twins and Sporties.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 5:54:54 PM EDT
Very fast,good engineering,somewhat uncomfotable{not for the large rider}believe me.Limited milage due to small tank and inaccurate fuel gage,I know{pushin sucks}I had first year then novelty wore off like everything else they can be found everywhere.Just doesn't fit the Harley lifestyle.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 5:58:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TodaysTomSawyer:
I wouldn't say it was a flop, but it sure isn't for the HD faithful.

There is a two-fold purpose for the V-Rod - 1) draw metric riders to the HD camp based on good performance (HD actually blindsided the imports - outdoing them in HP) and 2) Give them a solid footing in watercooled for the inevitable day (whenever that is) that air-cooled can no longer meet EPA standards.
When air-cooled is no longer acceptable to the EPA, you'll probably see some water cooled version of the old 45 degree V.

The V-Rod offers better performance out of the box and HD is now offering several V-Rod based models, but I don't think they'll ever sell in numbers like the venerable Big Twins and Sporties.




I think 2008 or 2010 is going to be the end of the traditional air-cooled motor. Such a shame.

Harley knew their riders were not going to like the new motor, so they put quite a bit of power into it (for a cruiser), but I don't think it's enough for the Harley faithful.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 7:33:57 PM EDT
what are the specs on the motor?

150 hp?
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 7:43:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/2/2006 7:47:21 PM EDT by fight4yourrights]

Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew:
what are the specs on the motor?

150 hp?






Bud, it's a HARLEY, not a Jap bike.


115 hp


Now, it's got good torque - so it's got good power. Decent 1/4 mile times......

Road Test
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 7:46:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew:
Did these bikes ever take off with customers?

I was browsing cycle trader and I see ads for them as clearanced.reduced. sale. got to go!

As a rider, I haven't seen too many on the road.

So, was this bike a commercial flop?



It's a sorry excuse for a V-max; that's why.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 7:49:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/2/2006 7:50:44 PM EDT by DasRonin]
The V-Rod's best market is in Europe. Those sales is what has made it successful. US sales alone would not support the V-Rod. It has a Porche designed engine.

The V-Rod and the newer Street-Rod are the only HD products I would own.

Buell, mostly owned by HD, is a whole different performance bike line. That line is doing quite well in the US and abroad. The motor is based on a Sportster engine/trans unit, but puts out almost twice the HP of the Sporster engine.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 7:50:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:

Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew:
what are the specs on the motor?

150 hp?






Bud, it's a HARLEY, not a Jap bike.


115 hp


Now, it's got good torque - so it's got good power. Decent 1/4 mile times......

Road Test



Damn, I figured they were getting at least 150 hp outta that huge engine. Plus it has a 3.5 gl fuel tank

Link Posted: 3/2/2006 7:53:43 PM EDT
It's too radical for Harley owners.


Guys like me, I'd rather have a Ducati for the money, or a nice Honda for less.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 8:02:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
It's too radical for Harley owners.


Guys like me, I'd rather have a Ducati for the money, or a nice Honda for less.



I bought an FZ1 last sept. after having a couple Harley's.

Link Posted: 3/2/2006 8:04:24 PM EDT
I bought a BMW instead. The V-rod's got a good versatile motor with terrible ergo's and no range.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 8:06:34 PM EDT
v-rod =
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 8:13:11 PM EDT
Harley should have built the VR1000 into a street bike.
Harley should have given the V-ROD engine to Erik Buell to develop a sport bike.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 8:15:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KA3B:
Harley should have built the VR1000 into a street bike.
Harley should have given the V-ROD engine to Erik Buell to develop a sport bike.



Agree on the VR1000, but if you recall that bike and powerplant was prone to burning.

Disagree on the Porsche designed twin in a Buell. Too heavy and too large, Buell's 1200 although a dinosaur is a much better fit.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 8:15:46 PM EDT
only HD I would consider

decent power and IMO look cool
not like a pimped out tricycle with tassels on the handlebars
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 8:17:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KA3B:
Harley should have built the VR1000 into a street bike.
Harley should have given the V-ROD engine to Erik Buell to develop a sport bike.




But Buell sport bikes aren't selling worth a shit compared to the Big Twins. H-D needs something to replace the big twin, because it will be extinct soon, and that's where their bread and butter is at.

I understand for those of you crave the most power you can get out of a motor that that's what you want. Us cruiser guys just want comfort and enough power to move a big bike along at highway speeds. Some cruiser guys go nuts and feel they must have the biggest one, like the H-D 103ci motor. That thing is a crock.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 8:34:44 PM EDT
It's been a sales flop, and they are a maintenance hog (pun intended), you have to remove the engine to adjust the valves! That's not the engine designers fault, that's the incompetent designers at Harley that did that!
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 12:02:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:

Originally Posted By KA3B:
Harley should have built the VR1000 into a street bike.
Harley should have given the V-ROD engine to Erik Buell to develop a sport bike.




But Buell sport bikes aren't selling worth a shit compared to the Big Twins. H-D needs something to replace the big twin, because it will be extinct soon, and that's where their bread and butter is at.

I understand for those of you crave the most power you can get out of a motor that that's what you want. Us cruiser guys just want comfort and enough power to move a big bike along at highway speeds. Some cruiser guys go nuts and feel they must have the biggest one, like the H-D 103ci motor. That thing is a crock.



Buell bikes were never meant to be a big seller, they fill a niche.

What Harley will probably do is design a 45 degree V-twin that is water cooled (like the Jap cruiser bikes) to replace the Evo engine. It won't be compact like the V-ROD engine.

What Harley will need to do is make the engine "chrome user friendly", and I don't mean it in a bad way.

Harley makes more money on the branded accessories (Screaming Eagle) than they do on bikes.
They need to make the next big V-Twin as easy to bolt-on parts as the Evo is.

Link Posted: 3/5/2006 12:29:58 AM EDT
I road a V-Rod during Bike Week last year.

If I had the money, I'd get one for the fun of it.



_____________________________




Link Posted: 3/5/2006 2:29:10 AM EDT



Originally Posted By KA3B:

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:

Originally Posted By KA3B:
Harley should have built the VR1000 into a street bike.
Harley should have given the V-ROD engine to Erik Buell to develop a sport bike.




But Buell sport bikes aren't selling worth a shit compared to the Big Twins. H-D needs something to replace the big twin, because it will be extinct soon, and that's where their bread and butter is at.

I understand for those of you crave the most power you can get out of a motor that that's what you want. Us cruiser guys just want comfort and enough power to move a big bike along at highway speeds. Some cruiser guys go nuts and feel they must have the biggest one, like the H-D 103ci motor. That thing is a crock.



Buell bikes were never meant to be a big seller, they fill a niche.

What Harley will probably do is design a 45 degree V-twin that is water cooled (like the Jap cruiser bikes) to replace the Evo engine. It won't be compact like the V-ROD engine.

What Harley will need to do is make the engine "chrome user friendly", and I don't mean it in a bad way.

Harley makes more money on the branded accessories (Screaming Eagle) than they do on bikes.
They need to make the next big V-Twin as easy to bolt-on parts as the Evo is.





Sounds like you hit it on the head. I'm pretty much giving up on them all. With a little luck, a few years down the road, my next bike will be made in my garage, and have a slightly older design. I'm hoping for a knuckle repro.



If I had the money, I'd get one for the fun of it.



I'd rather buy a small sport bike for a lot less. It would never replace my RoadStar though. I like comfort.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 5:29:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/5/2006 5:39:55 AM EDT by TheOtherDave]

Originally Posted By TodaysTomSawyer:
I wouldn't say it was a flop, but it sure isn't for the HD faithful..



No Shit, there is a small following, but the Faithful(TM) call them Water-Boys.

Harley should have given Buell that motor to play with from the start.... they are going to learn that people who want a Harley want a Harley, not a motorcycle. People buy them for what they are and not what they do. Hell, had it not been for some backroom engineering that nobody gave a shit about, that motor would have never seen the light of day. Only when it looked like a viable powerplant for thier soon-to-be-ill-fated VR1000 superbike did the company's leadership get behind the project, then they outsourced most of the work to Rousch Industries, and homologated them to race in America by having them distributed from fucking Poland.

The whole thing was a disgrace, and the motor is a shadow of what it was and what it could have become.

Harley deserves everything it's going to get when all the Rich Urban Bikers die off and leave their behemoth infrastructure high and dry. They stopped caring about the people that helped them through the lean years a long time ago.

Dave

ETA: The VR1000 motor was pretty good, and the chassis was close to GP spec. As usual, Harley got away with all kinds of rule bending in the time they raced the VR1000. Horsepower was always a step behind at a time when the jap manufacturers were figuring out ways to make tires last on a 4 cylinder to negate the Ducati's advantage. It is said that during it's day, the VR1000 was the best handling bike in the field. Where it fell short was in the details... Things would fall off, fail etc. I don't remember any engine failures off hand, but I remember in 1993 watching Miguel DuHamel caning the tits off the thing at Mid-Ohio and leading for the first three laps. The Thunderous roar from the crowd ended when his gearshift linkage fell off....
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 5:38:07 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 5:57:10 AM EDT
The V Rod's were selling at ~ $25 to $28k when they first cam out. Just think how those people feel now that the new ones are advertising at $14,999.00.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 6:03:47 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 6:09:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:

Originally Posted By toddlerp:
The V Rod's were selling at ~ $25 to $28k



and that is why they were not selling. why buy a vrod when you can get as much or more in a jap bike for close to 1/2 the price tag.



Christ, for $28,000 you could get one of those Screamin' Eagle factory custom bikes from HD.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 6:13:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Zakk_Wylde_470:

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:

Originally Posted By toddlerp:
The V Rod's were selling at ~ $25 to $28k



and that is why they were not selling. why buy a vrod when you can get as much or more in a jap bike for close to 1/2 the price tag.



Christ, for $28,000 you could get one of those Screamin' Eagle factory custom bikes from HD.



I can't believe anyone would pay 28k for a bike that has that sort of range fuel-wise.

I mean, if you don't have 20 gas stations in between destinations what good it it?

That thing was marketed to the bar hopper crowd. The hard core crowd puts serious mileage on their bikes.

Ride it to the bar, have a drink and back to the garage.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 6:25:13 AM EDT
Believe it. It was happening. Some were going for more when the dealers were adding bling and pipes.

Then the colored ones cam out. The $$'s were falling a little by then, but the mid 20's were where they were at.

I agree that the $$ is way too high for the bike. Since I own a Softail Deuce, I have no need for a V Rod but if a new one could be had for the price of a V Max, I would buy it as a second bike. I bought my 1999 V-Max for 9k, new out the door. Unfortunately, it was a victim of a divorce.

Link Posted: 3/5/2006 9:33:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/5/2006 9:37:03 AM EDT by pale_pony]
I guess I'm the only one here who actually owns one. Let me confirm and dispel a few myths I've read here:

First of all, I had THE FIRST ONE ON THE STREET in Tulsa, not counting the dealer's showroom demo which was not for sale. I took delivery February 2002 and still have it now.

It is definitely NOT the bike to end all bikes, and it was never intended to beat everything else on the street.

Mine cost $18k brand new and I have NEVER seen one priced in mid-$20k's, either new or used.

The VRSCA came out of the factory turning 115 bhp at the crank, about 102 bhp at the rear-tire and with K&N intake, modified exhaust and factory reprogram of the ignition computer mine now turns 121 bhp at the rear-tire as documented on file at Twister City Cycles dyno. That still is only 151 mph top speed, not exactly crotch rocket material but definitely a kick in the pants over a regular Harley Road King that turns about 65 bhp.

Service had not been an issue. Mine has had the Screamin' Eagle upgrades and a few oil changes. Other than that I don't know anything about these alleged "Service Issues" or service hog as mentioned in this thread. The engine is integrated as a piece of the frame and yes it has to be lowered to fully remove the heads (not on mine yet, valve adjust about 35k mile intervals IIRC) but according to my factory mechanic it's not as hard as taking an engine from a frame cradle. The engine does not have to be removed to adjust the valves, that's just plain bullshit.

It WILL BURN THE REAR TIRE OFF given a heavy throttle and I have never been able to get it to "wheelie" even under hard acceleration due to the rake of the frame, but it WILL SMOKE THAT TIRE.

While the bike costs a lot, it turns heads like nobody's business and in groups of other bikes Harleys or Japs, everyone ends up standing around the vrod.

While it costs a lot (admitted again) it has taken both V-Max's it has gone up against and handed them both their respective asses. I have also ran it against a Suzuki 750 critch-rocket and it kept up with the Suzi to about 140 mph at which point Suzi walked off and left me for about 170 mph which was out of my league. The Suzuki rider told me however that it gave him more of a fight than he was expecting

It is uncomfortable to ride for more than a few hours at a time and the stock seats just plain suck but aftermarket seats are comfortable and readily available.

The short range fuel tank was upgraded 2 years ago to a 5 gallon tank so the people talking about no range here are just talking about something they know nothing about.

The new bikes priced at $15k are not VRSCA's...they are VRSCB's and are the stripped-down models with less chrome and no factory goodies.

Would I buy another one? Probably not. I was expecting HD to do more with the Revolution Motor than just make the VROD. The bike was supposed to be a launching pad for other HD bikes and I haven't seen any significant changes yet other than the sport edition with the mid-mount pegs and the stripped-down VRSCB's for lower-budget riders.

And I'll admit that this was not the best investment I have ever made by a long-shot, but I like mine and it's paid for so I'll keep it until I find something I like better.

Any further questions? IM me and I'll be glad to answer them to the best of my ability.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 9:54:38 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 10:19:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
ETA: The VR1000 motor was pretty good, and the chassis was close to GP spec. As usual, Harley got away with all kinds of rule bending in the time they raced the VR1000. Horsepower was always a step behind at a time when the jap manufacturers were figuring out ways to make tires last on a 4 cylinder to negate the Ducati's advantage. It is said that during it's day, the VR1000 was the best handling bike in the field. Where it fell short was in the details... Things would fall off, fail etc. I don't remember any engine failures off hand, but I remember in 1993 watching Miguel DuHamel caning the tits off the thing at Mid-Ohio and leading for the first three laps. The Thunderous roar from the crowd ended when his gearshift linkage fell off....



The biggest reason why the VR1000 failed was because of the union mechanics that don't understand road racing racing like the union mechanics that work on the XR750's understand racing.

That and outsourcing the development and racing work to Gemini Technology and Steve Scheibe - Lord, what a piece of shit he was.

A friend of mine ran a Harley VR1000 for AMA and local races near the end of the VR1000 project.
Their biggest complaint was that they were not allowed to touch the engine.

They could do small mechanical things, replace components, but could not crack the cases or remove the heads.

If they had a problem they had to send the entire engine back to Gemini/Harley to be fixed.

Jerry Branch offered to do some flow bench testing on the cylinder heads, Harley freaked when they heard that.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 11:56:51 AM EDT
Refresh my memory, who was/is Steve Scheibe?

Why Ford thought they'd be a good way to waste advertising dollars through a sponsorship is beyond me...
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 12:30:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
Refresh my memory, who was/is Steve Scheibe?

Why Ford thought they'd be a good way to waste advertising dollars through a sponsorship is beyond me...



Steve Scheibe was the fuck that ran the VR1000 program for Harley for 7 YEARS.
He (and Gemini) were fired for the last 18 months or so of the VR1000 project.
Schiebe HATED Buell, he was always thinking that Buell was trying to take over the VR1000 project.


Scheibe is not a people person, which is not a insult, and his battles with VP of Engineering Earl Werner and Erik Buell are legendary within the halls of Juneau Avenue.

According to sources at Harley-Davidson, the engineering department at the factory, including engineering head Earl Werner and former TZ750 pilot Erik Buell want to have more involvement with the Superbike team, and the engineers at Laguna Seca were sent there to gather data.

Currently, the Superbike team is run out of the Gemini Racing complex in Mukwonago, about an hour from the factory in Milwaukee, and is run without any influence from Harley's engineering department. Funding for the team comes from Harley's marketing department.

It is said that Werner and Buell want one VR test machine to develop on their own. Buell has had a chassis in mind for the VR for years, and the engineering department want to have their way with the VR, which in recent years has had development performed by Cosworth, Roush Racing and others, including the Gemini in-house department.

Harley-Davidson spoke with former Kawasaki race boss Rob Muzzy about joining the team last year (1999) but those conversations did not bear fruit. Muzzy has long been a critic of Harley VR race manager Steve Scheibe, who also does not see eye to eye with Erik Buell.



If Rob Muzzy thinks that someone is a shit, then it's good enough for me.


Link Posted: 3/5/2006 12:48:47 PM EDT
well since my handle is V-Rod I have to explain. The day I signed up on AR15.com I just got back from test riding a V-Rod, the power, feel, and handling was excellent. I planned to buy it, but I came across a very clean super magna so I ended up buying that. I prefer the mid controls as I rather sit up due to my back problems..

With that said, I have just sold my super magna and Im seriously looking at the new Night Rod as it gives both mid-mounted foot controls plus highway pegs, and it looks like a bad ass drag bike..





Link Posted: 3/5/2006 5:01:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pale_pony:



While it costs a lot (admitted again) it has taken both V-Max's it has gone up against and handed them both their respective asses. I have also ran it against a Suzuki 750 critch-rocket and it kept up with the Suzi to about 140 mph at which point Suzi walked off and left me for about 170 mph which was out of my league. The Suzuki rider told me however that it gave him more of a fight than he was expecting




oh, what a load of baloney
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 5:44:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew:

Originally Posted By pale_pony:
While it costs a lot (admitted again) it has taken both V-Max's it has gone up against and handed them both their respective asses. I have also ran it against a Suzuki 750 critch-rocket and it kept up with the Suzi to about 140 mph at which point Suzi walked off and left me for about 170 mph which was out of my league. The Suzuki rider told me however that it gave him more of a fight than he was expecting



oh, what a load of baloney



Yeah,I thought the same thing,too. My 96 V-Max will stomp a V-Rod in any kind of accelleration contest. And no,I'm not a H-D hater as I drive a modified 01 Road King.
Clint
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 5:27:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew:

Originally Posted By pale_pony:



While it costs a lot (admitted again) it has taken both V-Max's it has gone up against and handed them both their respective asses. I have also ran it against a Suzuki 750 critch-rocket and it kept up with the Suzi to about 140 mph at which point Suzi walked off and left me for about 170 mph which was out of my league. The Suzuki rider told me however that it gave him more of a fight than he was expecting




oh, what a load of baloney



He didn't say it was one of the 1987 SACS oil-boilers, I guess......
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