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Posted: 2/27/2006 7:46:44 PM EDT
It sure seems like every time the topic of confiscation comes up, the usual "Molon Labe" / cold dead fingers / etc. bravado begins anew. Others chime in about their boating accident and there will even be suggestions about burying their firearms and sprinking the area with metal objects.

All well and good, but I call BS on them. Why? Check out this thread where we have an individual who has happened across what *might* be a FA M2 carbine in his grandfather's stuff. The immediate suggestion is to turn it in. WTF?

Whether or not keeping it would be against the law is beside the point (it is, BTW, unless it was previously registered as a MG). The fact that this is a real scenario and the individual is urged to do the "right" thing and turn the weapon into the ATF tells me that if any confiscation scenario comes around, the bulk of folks will hand them over willingly - they will probably deliver them to the local PD / ATF / whatever office in person.



Link Posted: 2/27/2006 7:50:13 PM EDT
Oh what a find! i wish i could be so lucky!

what was the question again?
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 7:52:07 PM EDT
What else would all of us law abiding citizens do, but turn them in?
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 7:52:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ChiefPilot:
It sure seems like every time the topic of confiscation comes up, the usual "Molon Labe" / cold dead fingers / etc. bravado begins anew. Others chime in about their boating accident and there will even be suggestions about burying their firearms and sprinking the area with metal objects.

All well and good, but I call BS on them. Why? Check out this thread where we have an individual who has happened across what *might* be a FA M2 carbine in his grandfather's stuff. The immediate suggestion is to turn it in. WTF?

Whether or not keeping it would be against the law is beside the point (it is, BTW, unless it was previously registered as a MG). The fact that this is a real scenario and the individual is urged to do the "right" thing and turn the weapon into the ATF tells me that if any confiscation scenario comes around, the bulk of folks will hand them over willingly - they will probably deliver them to the local PD / ATF / whatever office in person.






I agree with you 100%
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 7:53:38 PM EDT
you mean, people on this site actually own guns? i thought for all this time that this was a site about airsoft!

i used to own firearms, but i lost them all in a tragic woodchipper accident



Link Posted: 2/27/2006 7:54:19 PM EDT
well, it might be because he just admitted on a public internet forum, that is most likely monitored, even casually, by the ATF (in fact, they would be stupid not to).
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 7:54:54 PM EDT
He may as well turn it in because he was stupid enough to come on a message board and tell about it and ask what to do.


On the other hand, most people are sheep.


Molon Labe,

GR
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 7:58:43 PM EDT
great point, though i think it might be a different story if it was a come and get it situation.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 8:02:30 PM EDT
He can send the whole thing to me and I will evaluate it for him. If it is an M2 I will properly dispose of it in accordance with the Constitution...

-Ben
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 8:05:58 PM EDT
I agree.

In my case there is no way that would get turned in. Are you nuts!?!

Besides there might be an amnesty one of these days. Maybe.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 8:08:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/27/2006 8:09:34 PM EDT by KillAgain]

Originally Posted By Ranger_SXT:
well, it might be because he just admitted on a public internet forum, that is most likely monitored, even casually, by the ATF (in fact, they would be stupid not to).



Ranger, I thought we were supposed to pretend we didn't know they were here? Does this mean that we can start posting pics of our huge ammo stock piles and weapons?
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 8:10:33 PM EDT
Its easy to say Molon Labe. Its a WHOLE different ballgame to actually do it. The simple fact is, if you fight Them you WILL die alone, your family will be left without a husband or father, and the news will make you out to be a crazy gun owner.
But you WILL die.

I dont know many people who are willing to leave their wives and children to fend for themselves all for nothing more then an idea or belief.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 8:19:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Specop_007:
I dont know many people who are willing to leave their wives and children to fend for themselves all for nothing more then an idea or belief.



If that was generally true 230 years ago, we would likely be using pounds instead of dollars and spelling words like "color" differently.


Link Posted: 2/27/2006 8:21:21 PM EDT
Ah, cause the internet is NOT anonymous? I don't wanna be hauled in on some bullshit conspiracy charge for encouraging some yahoo to flaunt federal law (vague revolutionary statements notwithstanding).

Seriously, he asked a question. We give him the straight answer, and advice to keep him out of trouble. He now has knowledge. It's his choice as to what he wants to do with the thing.

In a perfect world the thread would go something like this:

Poster: Hey, y'all! Check out what I found in my grand-pappy's stuff: An M2 Carbine he brought back from the war!

(pics of gun)

another poster: That's just like the one my dad brought back! What arsenal marks does it have? Where was it made?

Another poster: Reminds me of the M-16 my dad brought back from Nam!

Another poster: I'm looking at buying a machinegun, which is better, Thompson or MP5?

Another poster: 9mm sucks

Yet another poster: That's nice, but mine brought back a BAR AND a STG-44.

Hey, anyone know where I can get one of those M2's?

Sure, DCM is selling them for $500 shipped to your door...

Etc....

Damn. Now I'm kinda bummed...
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 8:24:19 PM EDT
I posted this…

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=438478

…a few days ago.

I’ll fight like crazy to keep my firearms but I have no intention of shooting anyone. I keep guns to defend innocent life not to kill some police officer who is just doing his job.

Believe it or not the political system works and a small percentage of the population could win any political fight they want if they are really dedicated. If we can’t keep firearms legal then it’s because we didn’t do the work necessary to elect enough pro gun politicians and de-elect enough anti gun politicians.

Now, if the political system ever really broke down then it would be time to fight with our rifles. But until that happens my battles will just be political.

Link Posted: 2/27/2006 8:24:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PromptCritical:
Ah, cause the internet is NOT anonymous? I don't wanna be hauled in on some bullshit conspiracy charge for encouraging some yahoo to flaunt federal law (vague revolutionary statements notwithstanding).

Seriously, he asked a question. We give him the straight answer, and advice to keep him out of trouble. He now has knowledge. It's his choice as to what he wants to do with the thing.




And neither are 4473s, so by the same logic everyone who's purchased anything with a papertrail will naturally turn them in no questions asked...

Link Posted: 2/27/2006 8:26:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Thuban:
I posted this…

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=438478

…a few days ago.

I’ll fight like crazy to keep my firearms but I have no intention of shooting anyone. I keep guns to defend innocent life not to kill some police officer who is just doing his job.




I'm not advocating anything different. The hypocrisy around this subject is sickening, however.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 8:40:43 PM EDT
I have a line. I know what it is. End of story.


Believe or don't. Support it or don't. I could care less. These threads get tiresome.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 8:41:41 PM EDT
There's no winning, in a force-on-force scenario.

That said, there is always the option of non-violent protest. You can always try and be a good test case, even if that case is not actually tested in a court of law, but elsewhere.

Today's media may not be ready to paint your story in a good light, but someone will save it (for posterity) until the time is right/ripe.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 8:44:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ChiefPilot:

Originally Posted By PromptCritical:
Ah, cause the internet is NOT anonymous? I don't wanna be hauled in on some bullshit conspiracy charge for encouraging some yahoo to flaunt federal law (vague revolutionary statements notwithstanding).

Seriously, he asked a question. We give him the straight answer, and advice to keep him out of trouble. He now has knowledge. It's his choice as to what he wants to do with the thing.




And neither are 4473s, so by the same logic everyone who's purchased anything with a papertrail will naturally turn them in no questions asked...




Not what I mean. There's a difference between posting on the internet and filling out a 4473.

Look: You're at a gun-show. Guy comes up and tells you about this gun he found which is probably a machinegun. You have reason to believe an ATF Bureaucrat (they do work for a bureau, not an agency) is standing nearby. Do you, A: Tell him the law, and recommend he do the correct thing, or B: Tell him to buy some pipe and cosmoline and scream "ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ!" at the top of your lungs?

The cold dead hands stuff is just talk. I'm sure some people will be put on some list for saying things like that so they know who to look out for when they come for the guns. Whenever that happens, the whole thing will be a moot point, since they will be coming for the guns.

I guess it comes down to advising someone to break an existing law vs. advising someone to break some hypohetical law that doesn't exist yet...

Link Posted: 2/27/2006 8:44:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ChiefPilot:

Originally Posted By Specop_007:
I dont know many people who are willing to leave their wives and children to fend for themselves all for nothing more then an idea or belief.



If that was generally true 230 years ago, we would likely be using pounds instead of dollars and spelling words like "color" differently.





Point? This isnt 230 years ago, this is RIGHT NOW. We arent living 230 years ago, and 230 years ago they didnt have to fight for their gun rights or give more of a shit whats on channel 52 then what the government is doing.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 9:12:37 PM EDT
So the guy might be naive and posted something like this on the internet. Good job bringing even more attention to it in a more heavily viewed area like General Discussion Now instead of it maybe laying in obscurity in a less traveled sub-forum in the armory it is brought out in the most heavily viewed forum on this site. Hope everything turns out well for him.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 9:18:11 PM EDT
If I had any guns, I'd turn them in if they asked for them.

Guns are icky!
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 10:15:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PromptCritical:

Originally Posted By ChiefPilot:

Originally Posted By PromptCritical:
Ah, cause the internet is NOT anonymous? I don't wanna be hauled in on some bullshit conspiracy charge for encouraging some yahoo to flaunt federal law (vague revolutionary statements notwithstanding).

Seriously, he asked a question. We give him the straight answer, and advice to keep him out of trouble. He now has knowledge. It's his choice as to what he wants to do with the thing.


And neither are 4473s, so by the same logic everyone who's purchased anything with a papertrail will naturally turn them in no questions asked...


Not what I mean. There's a difference between posting on the internet and filling out a 4473.

Look: You're at a gun-show. Guy comes up and tells you about this gun he found which is probably a machinegun. You have reason to believe an ATF Bureaucrat (they do work for a bureau, not an agency) is standing nearby. Do you, A: Tell him the law, and recommend he do the correct thing, or B: Tell him to buy some pipe and cosmoline and scream "ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ!" at the top of your lungs?

The cold dead hands stuff is just talk. I'm sure some people will be put on some list for saying things like that so they know who to look out for when they come for the guns. Whenever that happens, the whole thing will be a moot point, since they will be coming for the guns.

I guess it comes down to advising someone to break an existing law vs. advising someone to break some hypohetical law that doesn't exist yet...


Bastard. I knew someone was going to call me on the agent shit.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 11:17:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Specop_007:
Its easy to say Molon Labe. Its a WHOLE different ballgame to actually do it. The simple fact is, if you fight Them you WILL die alone, your family will be left without a husband or father, and the news will make you out to be a crazy gun owner.
But you WILL die.

I dont know many people who are willing to leave their wives and children to fend for themselves all for nothing more then an idea or belief.


I don't remember where I read it -- probably one of Vin Suprynowicz's columns or on rec.guns -- but the writer explained that in eastern Europe, there were tens of thousands of guns that had been buried just after WW2, well-preserved or rusting away, with the owner thinking to himself that as soon as the uprising started against the Soviets, he'd dig it up and free his country. And of course, it never happened.

It's a lot easier to do when you have no hope left, and nothing left to lose, for whatever reason -- terminal illness, economic collapse, grinding poverty, already wanted for other major crimes.

Suprynowicz did write one column about the man whom "Crocodile Dundee" was modeled after. He was gunned down by Australian police at some road crossing in the middle of nowhere because he refused to turn in his guns, and hardly anyone knows a thing about it.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 11:37:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 71-Hour_Achmed:

Originally Posted By Specop_007:
Its easy to say Molon Labe. Its a WHOLE different ballgame to actually do it. The simple fact is, if you fight Them you WILL die alone, your family will be left without a husband or father, and the news will make you out to be a crazy gun owner.
But you WILL die.

I dont know many people who are willing to leave their wives and children to fend for themselves all for nothing more then an idea or belief.


I don't remember where I read it -- probably one of Vin Suprynowicz's columns or on rec.guns -- but the writer explained that in eastern Europe, there were tens of thousands of guns that had been buried just after WW2, well-preserved or rusting away, with the owner thinking to himself that as soon as the uprising started against the Soviets, he'd dig it up and free his country. And of course, it never happened.

It's a lot easier to do when you have no hope left, and nothing left to lose, for whatever reason -- terminal illness, economic collapse, grinding poverty, already wanted for other major crimes.

Suprynowicz did write one column about the man whom "Crocodile Dundee" was modeled after. He was gunned down by Australian police at some road crossing in the middle of nowhere because he refused to turn in his guns, and hardly anyone knows a thing about it.



en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodney_Ansell
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